We wish you a Merry Christmas;
We wish you a Merry Christmas;
We wish you a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.
Good tidings we bring to you and your kin;
Good tidings for Christmas and a Happy New Year.
Oh, bring us a figgy pudding;
Oh, bring us a figgy pudding;
Oh, bring us a figgy pudding and a cup of good cheer
We won't go until we get some;
We won't go until we get some;
We won't go until we get some, so bring some out here
We wish you a Merry Christmas;
We wish you a Merry Christmas;
We wish you a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.
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A few years back this giant superstore that underpays it's employees, it has a W in it's name, and AALMRT are in there too. Anyway, the point is, they didn't want to offend customers who didn't celebrate Christmas by telling those that did to STFU and call it 'Holidays' instead. So that's where the attempt to ban Merry Christmas from the USA was born and died almost at the same time. Unfortunately, far too many people still shovel their money into that corporation. I can only hypothesize that they're trying to help the owners amass a net worth of 1 trillion dollars before the decade is over.
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People in the US get offended over anything because they believe they're entitled and have power over other individuals when they complain. Go into any mall or store and you might see A ornament, but all charm is lost during the holidays. I'm not going to point my finger at certain groups that are the minority that ruined it for the majority, but I will say it's religious reasons... which blows my mind because ATHEISTS celebrate christmas, you can take the Jesus out of the picture and just be happy... that's what Christmas is really about now days, just happy, cheerful, family, gift giving, etc. You can make it whatever you want.... but people would rather complain that embrace the good in anything.
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I am a conservative christian and I DON'T celebrate Xmas since a yearly perpetual celebration of Christ's birth is never prescribed in the bible. That being said, the United States is a big country and certain groups have issues with Christmas because of its religious background which historically has been catholic and/or pagan. Generally speaking people don't really care though, its just atheist groups which protest nativity scenes/religious phrases in public places. And I am aware my name is "freakenlatino" I had the sn before I was a christian so =P.
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Not even in public places, just when state-sponsored; and their only objection is that if the government supports Christian religions displays for a holiday, it (constitutionally) has to do the same for other religions. It's not allowed to favor one religion over another.
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actually that's a modern interpretation of the constitution the early colonies were strongly christian...btw I admit that the founding fathers weren't all christians but they were deeply influenced by christianity...and the national anti-establishment of religion clause was originally intended to be as a specific church/ denomination. btw the modern us government does favor a religion...its called pluralism which is logically self defeating..you can't favor competing religions equally since they all contradict each other and many claim absolute forms of truth...and yes public places they make a big deal if companies favor a christian position such as chick fil a for anti-homosexual position....the homosexual advocates raged. btw i keep expecting the same kind of turmoil to happen in our country since again we push pluralism but so many religions claim truth..sooner or later its all going to clash.
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Your understanding of the history involved is incorrect; the modern fixation on government-based religion in America is mostly the creation of recent politicians and political pundits trying to exploit people's religions to get their votes. The treaty of Tripoli, for instance, ratified by a unanimous congress in 1797, reads in part:
As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen [Muslims]; and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan [Mohammedan] nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.
This was an entirely uncontroversial statement in 1797. It was only when politicians realized that they could get votes by loudly declaring their religion in the public square (and forcing confrontation by taking steps to force their religion on others) that it became trendy to pretend that the government had a Christian origin.
Many of them were Christians, and held Christian beliefs, and used Christian terminology for things like formal invocations; but when they described the nature of their government and the purpose behind their laws, they had no problem with stating that the government itself was secular.
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While I doubt you'll read this, I'll explain the "war on Christmas"/can't say Merry Christmas stuff.
Basically, a couple of companies decided one year that "Merry Christmas" might be off-putting/uninviting for non-Christians, who are becoming increasingly common within the U.S. They decided that they'd have their employees say "Happy Holidays!" instead, combining both Christmas, New Years, Chanukah (sic) and every other religious event of significance that happens near the new years.
Because the companies were paying their employees, they dictated that employees should only say Happy Holidays instead of Merry Christmas. Some Christians were deeply offended by this and declared it to be an insidious agenda against their religion. Eventually the companies (some, at least) decided that their employees could say either greeting as they please, though many have defaulted to Happy Holidays to be more inclusive to all people, not just Christians.
And now every year pundits break out "The War on Christmas", citing people opposing Govt. funds being paid for religious iconography even though doing so is expressly forbidden by the document upon which their entire nation is literally founded, or for people saying happy holidays, or for a dog breaking wind in the general direction of a manger.
TL, DR: The U.S. has a lot of extremists who revel in hyperbole. It's usually best to take what they say with a grain of salt, particularly when they're extremely vocal about religion.
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Yes. Welcome to the United States.
Though admittedly inclusivity can be taken to extremes sometimes, but "happy holidays" isn't really a terrible confrontation with all a Christian holds dear. It's funny that so many people in this thread thought it started because someone was upset when a person said Merry Christmas -- it was just a company trying to be friendlier to non-Christians.
But, alas, extremism shits up everything.
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The fact that a company feels it should dictate to its staff what they say is somewhat sad.
Surely the best thing would be to leave alone, and allow people their individuality, and the option to use whatever greeting they wish [if any] within the bounds of normal social interaction?
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Sure, but be prepared to be beaten, killed or thrown in jail if you criticize Islam or prophet Muhammed in an islamic society, or sometimes even in the western world.
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I know. I was semi-serious. Like, you can say whatever you want but sometimes you have to face consequences.
Bottom line - world is a messed up place and real freedom of speech doesn't exist.
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It does. But that's why you have to fight for the freedom to say what you want and for others to do the same. It's not an inherent right; it's something you have to work for.
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Freedom of speech just means that you can say what you desire. Refraining from telling things to other people is still the prerogative of the person in question. And since a doctor who doesn't disclose medical history to random people will be more desirable than one that does most doctors would end up with doctor-patient confidentiality.
The other potential problems you've suggested are also kept neatly under "You're free to do it, but there will be penalties to doing so." After all, you can always break an NDA, even now. It just makes you accountable for breaking the contract and thus having some penalty (that you agreed to beforehand) levied against you.
What you're arguing for is probably more akin to unrestricted access to any and all information, which is very different from freedom of speech. Ultimately it would be viable -- but only if society as a whole became much more thoughtful and mature about the things being discussed.
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True freedom of speech, at least in my opinion, implies that I can say anything I desire without set consequences. Obviously we do not have that now, because of the reasons I listed. If we go by your logic, I already have freedom of speech and there is nothing "to fight for."
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In my examples the person receiving consequences for saying what they want are receiving said consequences because they signed an agreement to avoid disclosing certain things, or have taken an oath against such actions. They can still [i]take[/i] those actions, but there are repercussions for taking them because they have at some point accepted those consequences in return for some advantage (e.g. practicing medicine professionally, receiving knowledge that an organization would not otherwise share, etc.); in other words there are legal consequences for your speech because you have previously accepted a contract or bond that says there will be consequences if you break it.
Freedom of speech is not freedom from consequences. You can't insult someone, for example, and expect there to be no consequences -- they will be offended by your action. That's the consequence. What you're asking for doesn't make any sense; it's impossible to remove consequences from actions. You can be free from legal repercussions, though, for expressing your thoughts and actions so long as they do not harm other people.
There are many places where people have their speech curtailed, or even their private thoughts and actions limited. For example, a nation in which you can't express your sexuality without risk of being executed or imprisoned. A nation in which you can't express religious dissent without similar consequences. In western nations (at least) it is generally accepted that so long as you are not directly harming anyone you are welcome to say and do whatever you please.
It's a fight to -maintain- that freedom that is important.
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I just say Merry Christmas at school as the state I live in is full of Christians and Catholics ... and that's it ... diversity ... I miss you. Everywhere else is Happy Holidays because ... stuff.
P.S. Kwanza is the best.
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Heh ... not where I live. Not sure if it's just arrogance or ignorance ... but almost everyone I know think Catholicism and Christianity are in no way related.
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Oh man, that is so ignorant... people should educate themselves more.
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No it's not true. Some Christians in the USA seem to think they are being persecuted because they can neither impose their irrational beliefs on others, nor convince everyone they are right.
But try to get elected to any public office in the USA and claim to be agnostic and just see how far you get. For too many in the USA, and on this planet for that matter, ideology is more important than facts, truth and tolerance.
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As title. Can any American citizen answer me this?
Didn't thought this thread would be this popular. So here is something for you guys, Christian or not.
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