because it's against your consumer rights and against their own ToS
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http://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/
The Steam client software and any other software, content, and updates you download or access via Steam, including but not limited to Valve or third-party video games and in-game content, and any virtual items you trade, sell or purchase in a Steam Subscription Marketplace are referred to in this Agreement as “Software"
G. Restrictions on Use of Software
You are entitled to use the Software for your own personal use, but you are not entitled to: (i) sell, grant a security interest in or transfer reproductions of the Software to other parties in any way, nor to rent, lease or license the Software to others without the prior written consent of Valve, except to the extent expressly permitted elsewhere in this Agreement (including any Subscription Terms or Rules of Use)
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Accept la. What kind of stupidity to fighting something like that? With Region Lock in place, games are getting cheaper. For my region at least.
They can lock all they want as long as it is not retroactively done and have clear description/flag (no hidden agenda).
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I bought like 2 games from the Steam Store before the currency change.
After the currency change though I managed to buy more than 20 games!
Things are going well now and I hope they don't change this anytime soon.
Plus, I don't trade/or travel so even if my games get region locked, it doesn't matter.
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It took years for Steam to notice my small country and recognize it so hopefully your currency will be converted too.
It's the same here for most AAA games(Ubisoft,Capcom etc). Borderlands:TPS and Witcher 3 were slightly cheaper before going back to their exact conversion rates.
On the plus side, certain games like Dark Souls 2 and Skyrim have deeper price cuts.
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Lucky you. My country is considered "rich" even though we're on Balkan (and have 200eur average salary), so we get 60eur Ubisoft games etc.
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I feel you, it sucks. Hopefully steam will reduce prices for our countries soon. Btw 200 € average? What's the minimum?
I thought Serbia's salaries are around the same as here in Croatia or even higher then ours. We've got around 260 € as minimum salary and the average salary on a job that's not paid by minimum would be around 390 - 520 €.
However getting a job here is very hard, unless you've got very good contacts (which I unfortunately don't have). I've been looking for a job for over 5 years now (ever since I finished highschool) and still no luck.
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Minimum is around 150e.
If you don't count public companies which are corrupted cesspools (people get 450-600e just to sit in a sofa with a thumb up their ass), salaries here are lower than in Croatia.
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+1
We have 25% unemployment rate here (53.8% for the youth).
Btw, don't consider average wage, consider median wage (it's fairer IMO).
The problem is that Steam considers Europe as a whole.
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Yea, this is extremely unfair for low income countries. I can never buy games at release, and I find it hard to buy them even at -75% most of the time. But of course, no one cares about the poor countries, because most of the profit comes from the rich countries, so why should they care... And so, piracy never disappears...
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Yeah, I don't think I've ever bought anything for full price on Steam. Games there are over twice as expensive as physical copies of the same games (copies I usually have to activate on Steam anyway)
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Region lock doesn't make the games cheaper. Often, the opposite
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My definition of accepting it means cutting way back on spending, but hey, if that's what Gabe wants, that's what he gets.
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If they think I'm gonna pay EU region prices, good luck.
For example earlier this month, I was thinking about getting Pillars of Eternity but, since it's region locked I'm gonna probably buy it on a Humble Bundle within 3 years for five bucks. Bad for them, good for me. Time to spent that money on beer and cookies :D
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How can devs talk to Valve about this when they "are not aware of their game region locked by deafult"?
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there used to be a thread on the steamworks forums. you might be able to find a picture on reddit or somewhere.
Some dev asked about how to change regionlock because he couldnt find that option.
Valve responded they have to ask Valve to do so including a reason. So most likely you won't get the non region-lock anymore if prices differ as much as they sometimes do.
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I actually meant move to a different country or continent if it bothers you enough. I.e. this is very much a first-world problem.
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Region locks are supposed to be a good thing.
It lets people who normally cannot afford a game at standard prices, be able to afford at the cheaper prices.
Customer wins.. Developer wins.. everyone wins!
Problem is when people start thinking of these region prices as the normal prices and they believe that the prices are too high in other countries. That is not the case. The full price is the normal price, while these are only for that region.
Although I do agree that everything that is region locked should be marked as such. There should be no doubt in the mind of the user about what he has or what he is trading for.
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This. The OP basically wants to fight to pay in the First World slashed priced aimed at incouraging in-development countries. They are pretty much fixing an exploit, regional pricing can't come without regional restriction.
The only thing that should "fought" for (what a bad word "figth" is, when speaking of the pricing policy of a videogame retailer) is to put every country in the right zone. I've heard of low-income countries who get bundled with the Eurozone and get shafted.
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Origin has/offers regional prices (even better ones for Argentina) and games are NOT regionlocked? What about GOG? do they forced you/us to region locks? NO!
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Thing is there's no special prices!!! it's the same expensive crap for everyone in other regions but Russia, Indonesia, etc. even Brazil and Mexico has better prices than we do. so?
I've left the "more detailed" idea to @hmunkey user. Nothing against him nor you nor anyone here. It hapened to be the top comment I read when I entered here.
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The irony is I'm earning about this and yet I have to pay ROW price (in dollars), because we don't have regional pricing.
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Tell that to European Commission,Council and Parliament.all of the greedbags want their cut.hence we,tha yurpeans,pay taxes over taxes(in most cases-like 80% of the time,even with indie titles),which is bonkers in n of itself.I wish your words would come true-us getting the nominal,untaxed price with VAT on top of that;now that would be fair pricing.But knowing how euro legislation deals with tax revenue losses,i say no dice.
Another thing,do you even 'enhanced-steam' bruh?If you'd bothered with checking n snooping around diff.zones,which you prolly didn't,you'd notice the pricing discrepancies,even between the 2 euro zones,going both ways for both zones.Sometimes,I have this feeling Gaben,publishers n devs play poker or roll d20 to see who's getting fucked n how bad.
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Well, no. All EU countries have VAT and I guess the average is around 21%. What country are you from?
Too lazy for clicky: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_rates_of_Europe
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Nevermind it was a misunderstanding on my part. I thought the EU had another tax on digital products, the confusion was caused by something i read a while back, my bad. The general one is 24% in my country but if i remember right, i cba to check right now, it's actually lower on digital products. Tho after actually looking it up the guy i replied to's claim of 80% VAT is still ridiculous and wrong.
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No problem. :) I guess the guy talking about that 80% was making an exaggerated statement about high taxes Europe and not trying to provide accurate data.
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You coupla katz is either blind or brain-dead,could be both.start your brains dimwits,or go back to pre-school where you'll be taught proper reading techniques.EIGHTY-PER-CENT-OF-ALL-TITALS-ON-STEAM have a 1€=1$ policy,considering euro zones.that is just mind-boggling.the only country taht has a higher vat rate than 25% is Hungary,standing at 27%.and even then,it's still higher than the rest of the world.on average 30-35% more tax.now that's redonkulous!
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Define "normal" prices. The Russian prices are still profitable for Valve and the publishers, so what makes the US price normal? What about the European one? Is it even more normal?
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While the idea is correct, the regions are complete tosh. Steam's full-priced release is twice as expensive as a physical copy in my country, and even that is already considerably expensive
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I'll protest with my wallet, or rather the lack of use thereof.
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it would prob be a bigger deal if a lot of people actually played the games theyre making a big deal for trading. Heck a few of the new games coming out are bitched about not being worth it anyways, so you might be dodging a bullet for being discouraged to trade for them, and hopefully the devs will get their things straight and make good games
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The alternative is for them to either stop selling their games in poorer countries, or start selling them at incredibly high prices in those poorer countries. At least with region locks, everyone can afford to buy games even if they live somewhere like eastern Europe, Russia, Brazil, Asia, etc.
I honestly have no idea what you guys are complaining about unless you're just mad you can no longer violate the ToS freely.
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With all due respect I can have with a extranger on the internet -but still a person-, you are so wrong in so many levels that if you knew, it would hurt!
This was about money, money, money. They don't seem to realise people if cornered would stop buying. Not all ofc, but still many will. Think, if you can buy a game you want, like you really want, but it's 60 USD, then you only have or can afford 30 USD. What do you do?
If trades are no longer an option, you don't buy. Sure, you COULD wait and see until it -and IF- it gets a discount, and even so it might be so insignificant that you waited 3 months, 6, or a whole year and then you see it's -10% off.
Sweet, you don't buy it, curse them in every language you know, and maybe even go to other places, namely Origin or upcoming GOG Galaxy.
Most importantly: Valve don't or wont get your money. They lost a sale (yours), because of their greed and lack of knowledge about regions. I'm from Argentina. Here, now, a single USD dollar could cost you 17 arg peso, same with every other country with no regional pricing. You don't see Valve doing something for us, no, you don't see a way to keep buying the game you want with the money you have. How come EA (Origin) DID implemented special prices?.
What would you do in out place?. I Don't know you, but maybe it's way easier for you to say that because it simply does not affect you. Maybe it does, but your economy it's solid so you don't have nothing to worry about. maybe even believed their lies. I'm guessing alot, but the part I do see, it's that they are effing right in the a$$.
Did you see the topic about the russian trader banned? Granted, he may or may not have traded too much gifts that made it too obvious, ok, BUT, the message he received, something along the lines of "Please dont trade with people living in regions with higher price". Where does it say that you must research and IP trace your friends to know where they live? what region do they belong? are we tagged now? Why should you be told with whom friends you can talk and gift them games and those whom you cannot?
If that doesn't raise a red flag for you, if that doesn't seem unethical, greedy, and total unaceptable, then I have nothing more to say.
If you go to a clothing store and like a t-shirt, has a price tag of 4 bucks, but the clerk tells you that you can't buy it without showing him your ID, or because you live in another neighbourhood, or because you're not a female and as the owner he gets to make the rules, however stupid they may seem. What you do you? accept it? call the manager?
So sorry for the long post/wall of text, but honestly we can't possibly allow this to happen. This is your decisions, your rights, your life!
Thank you
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+1 Fuck Gaben, i will buy from retailers only, even if Valve still achieve some profit, it will be minimal.
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As I understand it - the problem is not about region locks but about not conforming region prices. If the prices would've matched regions economy more correctly then what problem would locks cause? Sure there still will be people who would wanted to exploit any system and buy cheaper, but they always are so you could only ignore them.
And yes, I agree that situations with traders geting banned is not good, but it's also not a "regions locks" problem, it's more a "bad company policy meets poor client support" kind of a problem.
And if you wanted to make a convincing example - it's so not suitable for the situation. It's more like you go to a clothing store and like a 4 bucks t-shirt, but you know that in a nearby poor neighborhood you can buy it much cheaper. And owner didn't made up any stupid rules, he knows the market, knows what price consumers are willing to pay for a t-shirts and he sells it for that price. But he also knows that in poor neighborhood people simple won't buy for that price so he lowers prices in such district. LOWERS for some districts, not RAISES price for the rest, but still everyone start shouting that this is unfair and start smuggling t-shirts for cheap. Isn’t that logical for owner to make something to prevent that? Like build a fence and punish smugglers? So the problem is not in owner being greedy oppressor, but him not carefully and correctly choosing neighborhoods and matching prices for them.
About Origin - I'm not aware how they deal with region prices, so can't say anything about that and will appreciate if someone describe the situation. And about GOG - I don't think that you should compare since it's different for DRM-free, but I could be wrong.
And don't get me wrong - I'm not defending steam, I agree that all this situations are bad, I'm just saying that if you want to put on yout shining armor and go fight the dragon you should name it correctly. If you choose the right justified cause you can even start a whole crusade, but loud statements and substitution of concepts can only gather so much as arguments and infighting within the community.
Sorry for building another wall right on yours, just got too bored with all same screaming. Didn't want to offend anyone and open for discussion.
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I kinda agree, or at least what you said makes sense too. I'm not looking to wear that shiny armor and start a cruzade, as far as I know, that kind of men always end up the same: ratted out, stripped of everything, punished, hanged, beheaded, you name it. I would not care if I were effin rich, ofc, or if at least our economy wasn't THIS bad, because then I'd probably balance the scales with prices and effort to be able to pay, guessing it would be a nice ratio and would pay it and be done with all this mess.
Agreed, it serves as smoke bomb for distraction and infighting, "Divide and Conquer" eh?
Since I'm not northamerican (still american, since we're from southamerica, tho isn't the point) I don't know real prices, but I guess your approach would be the best possible outcome for everybody, yet they don't do it like this.
Smaller wall of text, huh? thanks for your imput. I won't say "if you can't beat them join them" but instead "if you can't beat them, dont feed them anymore!" Get it?
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I agree regional pricing is necessary and locking is the only way to ensure it works as long as it is done fairly for all countries they do business in.
But, as i have ranted about in another thread before, some of Steam's past actions to support this locking have not been very honest. Many times people who buy a lot from the store get banned with no explanation. I myself had games retroactively locked before (eg. South Park). The thing is, the poor customer service seems to be an intentional roadblock and is meant to prevent you from getting a chance to express your concerns - especially when they know they were wrong. My experience with steam support has been worse than telephone companies. Almost always, all you get is a copy-and-past reply that doesn't address the question. When you've really bothered them, they'll just quote something irrelevant from their stereo-typically corporate and one-sided ToS contract. Hell, they call it SSA to make sure you know you own nothing you buy so they can do whatever the fudge they want.
It is tough fighting steam though. They have so many great games on their catalog and many of us have already invested so much into our accounts. It'll take too many people with too little reward for a legal battle against their undoubtedly mammoth legal team. We'll just have to vote with our wallets and buy less. Hopefully their greediness will change themselves for the better.
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You know all of Europe pays EU prices on Steam? Even very poor eastern European countries not including Russia? It would be one thing if there was say EU 3 zone for these, with low prices, but there is not so countries barely richer than Russia have every right to complain living 10 km away grants you special treatment thanks to Valve's laziness. Hell, adding new, very low price regions in east Asia was extra slap in the face, these countries are often much richer than poor eastern European ones. I really can't see why people complain, eh? :|
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What would a "fight" against region locks look like?
A few angry (and swiftly locked) posts on the Steam forum?
Naked sit-ins in internet cafes?
Lame, utterly ineffectual petitions?
Hiring a hitman to kill Gaben's favourite pony?
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what happened to region lock i dont understand :o? nomore russian stores ?
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so who bougth for example cod advanced warfare for 12k ( the cpy without ru lock ) have made a deal then now ?
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nope it's just fine...if EA would have do something like that it was the end of their time....but when Valve choose to do something like this it's good....just as cool as giving items for 100 euros and still EA it's to blame for giving dlc's for 6 euros. I just sayin'...don't flame on me..
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We're only waiting until the 1€ ≠ $1 ≠ £1 initiative nets some results before we start yet another initiative ;)
Seriously, it's Valve we're talking about, they have crappy support and don't give a flying ship about our opinion, so what do you expect/suggest?
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1€=1$ could be a thing soon and i wonder if EU price will grow or stay the same
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Isn't it like that the developers determine these huge differences in prices? I mean it doesn't have to do anythink with Valve (except their own games of course). Don't get me wrong, I hate this as much as anyone else, as I live in Europe too (Hungary), and I think I may have never bought a game directly through Steam with these high prices (AAA games here in retail stores cost about 28€-45€, but they rarely get lowered in prices even after years of them being out).
So in conclusion, it would be the devs responsibility to make these unfair differences disappear.
But please correct me if I'm wrong. :)
Oh and joined the group!
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Right, as if Valve would route any taxes I pay on Steam to my government. AFAIK, their EU headquarters is in Luxembourg - the country with the most "relaxing" tax laws if you're a big company (especailly after Switzerland had to change their bank secrecy to cooperate with other EU countries).
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alright, so I might be mixing those two up.
anyway, VAT is a tax that the seller (Steam) has to forward to the government of the buyer - and I still doubt Valve does that.
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yes and no. The devs have the option to change the prices for their game(s) at any time and set specific prices for different regions, however Valve suggests to leave it at their (Valve's) capable hands to set the regional pricing based on the US store price.
some info can be found here
some more info here
So I'd say it's the fault of dev's that are too lazy to look into regional pricing and also the fault of Valve for suggesting those prices in the first place.
But in the end it probably comes down to the devs to fix this, since Valve doesn't care.
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Thanks for the links, so it seems the prices are influenced both by Devs/Publisher and Valve. I guess big companies are more likely to be allowed to make their own prices, and the lesser must follow what Valve says.
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After reading almost all the posts in this thread, I wonder why everyone only mentions the money involved ... noone mentions the games that can't be bought in some regions, but could still be traded and activated if someone else bought them for you.
Either because the game isn't available in your region's Steam store, or your Steam store only offers a cut version.
So if you're discussing region locks, at least take some more aspects into consideration :P
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I can't speak for all countries, but in Germany it's perfectly fine to own/play uncut games, as long as you're 18 years or older.
The problem with Steam is, that German law requires online shops to do some real age verification (not just input your date of birth) to verify that the buyer is of age.
Since Valve doesn't implement such a verification, they can only sell games to German customers that have a FSK rating of 16 years or younger - that means either the game has the gory parts cut/removed or the game can not be sold at all to German customers.
That's not something I made up:
I have already contaced both Valve and the German "Bundesprüfstelle" about it, and Valve says, the Bundesprüfstelle doesn't allow them to sell uncut games, while the Bundesprüfstelle mailed me back and stated that Valve would be allowed to sell uncut games if they'd implement an age verification.
here's a Steam group that's dedicated to this "problem".
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Nobody mentions it because it doesn't apply. Only some countries have their gifts locked.
You can still get uncensored gifts from a wide variety of countries (Japan being the cheapest usually) and redeem them in Schland.
However you don't get the dual benefit of those uncensored versions also being ridiculously cheap anymore, since Russia, Asia, etc. are out of the picture.
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If you are fed up with pricing / locks / drm don't spend $ on steam. Personally i haven't put a dime into directly. My money goes to gog. What i gotten on steam is just from bundles. And yes knowing the pricing in € is like at 120% where the cheapest pricing lungers around 50% absolutely doesn't help.
EDIT: admittedly you can pickup a large volume (and its dead cheap) if from bundles only.
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two things
1: valve is not a democracy. theyve got the power and the control so they know they dont have to do right by their customers or listen to them
2: fandom. valve started off caring about customers and customers responded with huge amounts of support and admiration. valve now knows they can do wahtever they want because people have already formed a strong brand association and connection... basically fanboys will always shrug and love whatever valve does, and shout down anyone that doesnt
so, no.. theres no point fighting it, because nothing will change. You cant change valve or steam, all we can do is vote with our wallets. if you dont like how valve is behaving, then make a choice not to support them. plenty of other places to get games.
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If most of the games that i already have in my steam library were on GOG i would use it without hesitation, but that is not the case. GOG is one of the best things that PC gaming have right now, but my favorite games aren't there, and that is how Valve kept us chained to their shitty policies, support, and treatment.
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Let me give a completely opposite opinion. I'd actually want region locks if it did mean lowering prices on games here to prices similar to the RU/CIS store. Right now we're lumped up with the rest of Europe. Charging 40-50€ for (the basic edition of) a game in a country where medium wage is 300€ and minimum wage is 100€ is retarded. It's also why many people pirate here instead of buying. Hell it's insane that i can buy most games retail version for the price(sometimes for less) steam charges me on release for a digital copy.
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many many traders are gone and less people trade overall :(. many who traded have now region locks. it wasn't illegal was it?
so now valve wants to earn more money and the publishers i guess, they saw that gifting is mostly cheaper and now gifting was limited + newarly all new releases are locked!
just accept it?
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