(Closed) How bad is piracy?

294 Comments - Created by Unit88 2 years ago

I'm really curious about the opinion of the community. How bad is piracy? Is there a factor where piracy is not bad anymore? Do you pirate? Do you think it's wrong that you pirate? And any other thing

Yeap Software Companies don't also "copy" their products, they need to work to make the copies as well, and sell them at prices that appeases everyone.. not.

TheSnake

(2 years ago)

In short - not as bad as Ubisoft claims it to be.

Lito

(2 years ago)

Essentially piracy is used as a scapegoat to push through whatever new and creative ways companies want to dick their customers around with. Example, Ubisoft's 95% piracy rate which is complete bullshit, and they will probably use for some new sort of retarded DRM that they so love to do. It's like when the Music Industry complains about lost sales when their business is actually booming, and when they do complain about a loss they make the number so astronomically huge that it actually dwarfs the total that the industry ever made. They don't even try to make their crap sound legitimate.

Turkeys

(2 years ago*)

Oh, you don't believe 99.98% of all music is pirated!? No!~ You just don't understand sales! They only make 200 billion a year, they deserve so much more from those filthy pirates!...

It seems the people that complain most about it are people that aren't favored by the market (ehem ubisoft and terrible DRM on every game, ports ect.) and the music industry mostly complains about artists that are on a decline because they changed their style of music. Not much is actually based on piracy rates, but rather their current stop seller under the label.

nooby

(2 years ago)

The store needs funds from apples to get other fruit in stock. You can get copied apples, but you are also risking that there will be no oranges in the store, and the pirate can't get them from elsewhere besides copying the ones from the store. Sure, he can for instance copy bananas from another store, but the same principle applies to that other store.

Probrotector

(2 years ago)

At first glance your name looked like Evilbaldwin. @_@

Melons

(2 years ago)

yes, but that also assumes for every apple pirated it equals a loss of sale.

that's the big argument. because it makes an assumption that a pirated copy is a loss, and that's how they justify all these drm and evil intrusive policies against PAYING customers.

the fact is, not everyone wants to buy your game. some might think $60 is too much for a phoned in "AAA" title that had half it's content cut out so it can be sold as DLC. if it's not on sale, they might not buy it at all. how many games do you pass in the shop if they're total junk and over priced? I'm not defending the act of piracy, but you can't just simply say that it's costing the companies a sale. not every pirated copy is a lost sale so that comic is a bit misleading.

saltybill

(2 years ago)

Another point also is that there are people from some poor 3rd world countries who can't even afford the game , or even have a way to buy it even if they needed it or could afford it.

So they resort to piracy and that contributes to the lost sale number , however the thing is it was NEVER going to be a sale anyway , and I bet most of these numbers come from that.

GameDude51

(2 years ago)

there is no "lost sale" since these guys wouldn't have bought it in the first place.same with some pirates in "first world" countrys,they D/L games they would not buy (cause they dont really like it,think the game is shitty or whatever).

Again: 1 "pirated product" doesn't equal 1 sale

BettyShikle

(2 years ago)

Wait, they can't pay for the game, but CAN pay for the computer and the high-speed internet connection needed to pirate it...?

Docdra

(2 years ago)

That makes perfect sense. High-speed Interned connection actually isn't needed for pirating games. I gather that "piracy" in this case is not referring to bootleggers, which leaves sneakernet is the main means of the type of piracy being discussed. Those who do have internet are spending all their money on internet and thus don't have enough left over after that. Those who are priviliged enough to barely afford a 384kbps uncapped ADSL (this is referred to as "fast ADSL") line probably don't have enough left over to buy games habitually, but they can pull 4 gigs a day from bittorrent, thus keeping the sneakernet seeded. And the computer? Well, you'd have more money to spend on games if you didn't buy a computer, but then how would you play them?

BarefootMonkey

(2 years ago)

Not very many games are avil. in Argentina. I have a friend who lives there, and quite literally CAN'T buy the games in his country, mostly due to the import trades that the country forces. He can't buy on steam because it's region locked out for him, and he can't buy it in stores because companies don't want to deal with the country for software. So what is he left with? Piracy.

It's strange, but the companies actually include people in the piracy numbers as a lost sale, even when they don't sell to their country, meaning they can't even buy it if they wanted to.

nooby

(2 years ago)

Nice.

le4slie

(2 years ago)

Not everything. For example: this. On a similar note, DRM. Legitimate users have to rely on an internet connection, and third party servers to be functioning if they want to play their games. Pirates don't have any of these restrictions and are free to play any of their games, whenever they like. For instance if their internet goes down for some reason.

Iviv

(2 years ago*)

I've had to download cracks in the past to actually be able to play games I'd bought just because the DRM wouldn't recognize the protection on my disc. The publisher's response? Buy a new drive... because we can't bother to get our game to work with the one you bought 3 weeks ago.

Zomby2D

(2 years ago)

I've heard of people buying Battlefield 3 and immediately pirating it just so they could play without the EA spyware

DaSunao

(2 years ago)

Misleading. Selling meager products like apples has no even remotely similar necessary investment to something like a game. A farmer doesn't need to spend $100m over 3 years to get the product out, and what he has at the end of each seasons isn't just one apple.

hmunkey

(2 years ago)

Yet the analogy is still valid. The pirate is giving away your product for free. A bunch of people who probably wouldn't have bought your game will get it there. Some people will try it from there before buying from you. Some people are lost customers because they'd rather get it for free than pay. And some people are still gonna buy the game because they don't know how to pirate, don't want the hassle of patching, are loyal customers or just don't believe in stealing stuff. You will lose some sale to pirates, but you have to consider than the majority of those people wouldn't have bought your game in the first place.

Zomby2D

(2 years ago)

Which I would agree with, if music and movie sales hadn't dropped to less than half of what they were, even at significantly lower prices.

hmunkey

(2 years ago)

Does free media apply to any of that? Why would I go to a theater to watch something, when I have hulu, youtube (and slightly less free) netflix? Sure, your sales went down, but it's not because I pirated the product. It's because I have no interest in your product.

nooby

(2 years ago)

I am just tired by amount of stupidity of some ppl.

If sb say piracy is not stealing, there will always be some retards, that start to imply that he says "PIRACY IS NOT BAD".

No, nobody fucking said that. You lost all your arguments and you have to fight with imaginary ones.

  • Fact 1: Piracy is not stealing.
  • Fact 2: Piracy can be bad or good (good when we buy games ONLY because we pirated them earlier).

wojtek858

(2 years ago*)

The thing this image is missing, is the line of people buying oranges. Oranges that cannot be easily copied by the copy machine. It also ignores fails to mention that apples must be sold to fund the continued production of apples for both stores.

Piracy as a mechanism to try games is fine, but very few people use it as a demo. Many players will download and play games, then not bother picking up a copy later because they're done with it. Sure, conceptually I like this, in practice it doesn't happen often enough to justify defending piracy.

If you are someone who pirates games, then buys them, congratulations! Pat yourself on the back! But you are a member of an incredibly small minority of pirates, and you are being used as a counter-argument by far more shameless pirates.

Flanlord

(2 years ago)

Missing a few things like:

1) Sometimes that copy of the apple has a worm in it that gives you a nasty infection

2) Sometimes that apple may look like an apple, but is really a harmless pear, which you really didn't want

The problem here is that either of these can erode consumer confidence in the person that originally grew and marketed the apples, causing even more POTENTIAL lost sales; I agree that there is no way for them to prove or estimate damages caused by piracy, but do know that there are indeed damages. I forget which game it was, but pirates put out an unfinished version of it before it even launched - bugs and all - a lot of the online forums were bashing the game before it came out and I'm certain many held off of buying it at launch as a result.

Despite that, I've had to use cracks on games I've purchased in order to do things with them that weren't intended, i.e. play without the disc, play on a newer OS, play with different graphical settings, etc.; there are very legit uses for going this route.

Docdra

(2 years ago*)

Suldok (2 years ago)

Your "You are a pirate" is better :D

Aneszej

(2 years ago)

Man with Sword under his balls is awesome XD

MrPredatorCZ

(2 years ago)

That... was awesome.

SFaPiL

(2 years ago)

Lil Wayne is a musician. Lil Wayne is rich. Therefore, all musicians are rich. Sure, that argument makes sense.

movac

(2 years ago)

So you just basically said an argument and answered to yourself that it's not legit argument.. right

Suldok

(2 years ago)

But it's equivalent to the argument the image macro you linked makes. The image claims that piracy doesn't hurt musicians by showing an extremely rich musician, then generalizing his wealth to every musician. I'll let you in on a secret: most professional musicians are poor. Just not the ones you see on TV.

movac

(2 years ago)

Musician and artist have two different definitions

Suldok

(2 years ago)

How is that at all relevant?

movac

(2 years ago)

So that's the point, why are you saying musician if I'm saying artist and now you're saying how is that revelant? Seems like 2,700+ comments isn't enough for you.

Suldok

(2 years ago)

Ever heard of a syllogism?

jackofhats

(2 years ago)

I think the better answer is "Rich musicians aren't hurt by piracy, but not all are rich"

Vosse

(2 years ago)

Cyclone103 (2 years ago*)

Piracy is wrong except in situations where you could not otherwise obtain the program legally. As someone who produces and sells software, piracy (games, software, music) does cut into profits and frankly is a giant buzzkill to inspiration for making more. As a user who sometimes CAN'T get what I need or want, if there's no other way to get it, go for it.

EDIT: Addendum: If the company which produces the thing you cannot get is small enough, try to email them first and explain your situation - They'll be understanding and they'll probably send you the product for free anyway, and you'll certainly respect yourself for it.

I agree, piracy is wrong, with a few exceptions. I have tried finding a few obscure songs, which simply are not sold (anymore, or never was, because it was part of a old tv movie, etc.). That is when I believe it is okay to search if someone happened to have ripped it.

But if you can obtain the product just fine somewhere, even if it is difficult, I believe it is wrong to pirate it. If it is out there and available, I won't be a greedy cheapskate and go pirate. Respect the product and creator, I'd say.

I wouldn't want people to steal money I am trying to earn from a product I created or helped create and probably feel invested in. It would be very demotivational if sales would drop, not because people don't want it, but because people who can pay, just want to get freebies when it is readily available for purchase.

jurm02

(2 years ago)

If every company made a Demo of their game, or made it DRM Free, some people would pirate less probably.

Sometimes people pirate in protest of said DRM or other circumstances.

In some cases like with the Wii, some people want to play their games with the Dolphin Emulator for High Resolution graphics. But backing up your game requires modding the console and some other stuff you may not have or be comfortable doing.

Vosse

(2 years ago)

johnxfire (2 years ago)

It's not something I condone, but, to be honest, I used to pirate when I was younger, simply because my parents really wouldn't let me invest on games, retail or through Steam.

I don't think the PC loses more sales due to piracy though, most pirates would usually never pay for the game they pirate, even if piracy was not an option. And console piracy is also quite prevalent, at least where I'm from.

Funnily I was like that with cheating and hacks. When I was 7-12 maybe I used to play always on the easiest difficulty use every cheat and hack (even in online games) but after that I started playing for the challenge. Now I never use cheats or hacks (except for GTA fun or random stupid fun in any other game, but I never save those or at least not on my main save) and I always play on normal difficulty except if it's too easy. Also it' probabl worth mentioning that I'm 16 now.

Unit88

(2 years ago)

Teenangers should be out playing not inside gaming :D "haha"

Darkie

(2 years ago*)

Inside Gaming!

And, sadly, playing outside became uncool when I turned 14 ._. Thank God I was in a blocked section filled with geeks though, lol.

johnxfire

(2 years ago)

You are welcome to join my football team (I am a coach for U15) I will show you how fun "playing" outside can be ^^ haha

Darkie

(2 years ago)

So you are trying to get children hurt? YOU ARE AN EVIL PERSON!

Ekaros

(2 years ago)

What can I do alone outside? All my frineds live far but we meet every week (except now because they're on vacation)

Unit88

(2 years ago)

There is plenty of stuff to do outside if you are still a teenager..

Doing a sport (could be all from football to cycling) but you are right, if you are in your late teens you can't crawl up in the trees etc anymore..

I normaly make a rule (play 1-3 hour - train ½-1 hour) as a minimun (some days I train alot more) I am not Teen (I wish I could be again.. but its so long ago).. I can tell you most of the boys on the team I am coaching is doing alot of active stuff outside. they do game also.. thats normal but they do it in sessions :)

Darkie

(2 years ago)

Hey, same boat! I used to almost always cheat in every singleplayer game I had when I was young. Quite silly. '93 here, so I'm 19. Ohh, the younger years. How time flies.

johnxfire

(2 years ago*)

You tell me. When I was young the summer always felt so long, and now! It's just so short. From my experinced the older you get the faster time goes.

Unit88

(2 years ago)

Thats not true Unit88.. I think the time is going slow now compared to when I was a Teenanger IE... maybe its because of university + jobs + gaming + coaching :D it eats up time slowly tbh.

Darkie

(2 years ago)

Fucking. Amazing.

jackofhats

(2 years ago)

+1

Pedro1996

(2 years ago)

shadowgrin (2 years ago)

It's a lousy excuse made up by people who can't adapt to technology and a changing industry.

That, in turn, is a lousy rationalization made up by pirates to justify their actions.

You want to know how a company can "adapt" to people giving away your product (not a competing product, your product) for free? Well, the adaptation the industry's talking about right now is free-to-play. Develop a multiplayer game, release the base game for free, then sell unlocks that are required to do well. Do you still want the games industry to adapt? Do you love F2P games that much?

movac

(2 years ago)

Yes, I love TF2 that much. Great game. Unlock to do well what now? By using TF2 as an example your point just got obliterated.

shadowgrin

(2 years ago*)

Don't know how you do it, but i was never able to pirate the exact product the company offered but always a copy with worse quality: Rarely the latest patches, searching for working cracks without downloading viruses, no multiplayer, random crashes because of the crack...

0x442E472E

(2 years ago)

vidmavidma (2 years ago*)

I usually download the game from Torrents, if it's good - I buy it. There's nothing wrong with that.
P.S. We need to do what Russia did. Pirate so many games that Steam would give away games almost for free.

Yes because lots of game haven't demo

afex777

(2 years ago)

True

shardival

(2 years ago)

Demos that restrict 90% of the game's features.

jackofhats

(2 years ago)

I use this system too ( Or I ask my awesome friend if he can me his opinion on the game lol)

PJchillout

(2 years ago)

I do this too :|

nosef

(2 years ago)

kellen345 (2 years ago*)

About seven Hitlers bad (metric, of course).

ErrEff (2 years ago*)

Great, this hasn't been argued to death enough times already.

Also, here is what the community had to say eight months ago.

Prydzo (2 years ago)

no.

twiz (2 years ago*)

All industries have been martyring themselves over piracy for as long as there has been an industry for a particular thing. And piracy has ALWAYS been killing that particular industry: http://www.zeropaid.com/news/86135/pic-music-industry-angry-over-piracy-from1897/
I can't find the source, but I read an article where merchants (industry people) were getting together with Kings, sheriffs, etc (law enforcement) to prevent certain people who didn't have the "rights" to particular patterns of cloth in medieval times. Unfortunately, searching for those keywords gives results for Renaissance fair and Pirate costumes.

Unit88 (2 years ago)

Good comments. Interesting opinions and which are not are simply funny.

Krychek (2 years ago)

Pirates must die!

BassEffect (2 years ago*)

I dont leech a single game since I have installed Steam
"Do you think it's wrong that you pirate?" - I bought NFSU2 and the damn protection worked too good, random crashes at random times
leeched the game and it worked like a charm

as for the music I give mine away for free and pay hard cash for legal software by entering music contests where I get enough for it
so I dont really feel me grabbing some mp3 will do much harm, I do pay for originals (also too bad amazon uk dont alllow mp3 to be sold outside uk)

EDIT: oh and I let you know I am a Silver supporter for the Defense Grid 2 Kickstarter

Ekaros (2 years ago*)

It isn't possible to stop piracy, so the whole angle of going with it is wrong. The real solution is just to ignore it and aim to make products that people want to pay for. There is things that can be done like providing physical goods and such. If the model is broken you fix it, and not shout foul and get someone else to pay. But this doesn't apply in even bigger cases...

Personaly I see the current way of enforcement quite strange and moraly wrong. I accept that with sufficient proof one should be fined for copies he made and distributed, but the current model of also counting further copies and imaginary "losses" doesn't seem to be much related to reality.

Nayelianne (2 years ago)

I confess to having pirated Minecraft, Terraria and Plants vs. Zombies. But I did buy all three of them afterwards, so I guess that makes me even with the devs. There are cases that piracy is bad, but in this case, if I hadn't pirated Minecraft I probably would never realized how awesome it truly was, and thus, would never have bought it.

I do believe the existence of Steam and all those indie bundles helps a lot to reduce piracy though. At least in my country, games used to be pretty expensive, but on steam, they're things you can easily afford without thinking that you spent 1~2 weeks worth of groceries on.

1st part GOOD, try before you buy (without limitations) and ending up buying original (I used to do that)

as for the rest you are SO right, less greed, more sales

BassEffect

(2 years ago)

Jurk0wski (2 years ago)

Piracy will always exist. Attempting to stop them only hurts sales. Yes, yes, glitchy games for paying customers, but imagine a game where the DRM effects none of the paying customers. the cracked game will often be buggy due to the DRM removal. Given that many people say that they pirate just to try a game, and if they like it, they buy it (I've done this twice now, Civ V and Oblivion), a buggy cracked game can result in lost customers because the pirate assumes that the legit game is that buggy as well, and not worth the buy.

And why no demo its no gamers problem. I have not one piece of shit called game like Syndicate. P.s. lots of bugs in games 90 % not crack problem. You remember first Skyrim realyse no HD textures and 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 bugs.

afex777

(2 years ago)

Perhaps developers need to work with the cracking groups to help iron out any bugs in the pirated versions?

Win-win?

AtomicWoodchuck

(2 years ago)

perhaps devs (this just might even for indie devs) just need to make a pirate copy that is the same as the game, but politely asks the player every time it is loaded up to consider buying the game if they like it. hell, that'd probably be the best DRM method. add some splash text to every loading screen politely asking the player to buy the game if they like it.

Jurk0wski

(2 years ago)

Yea no one would pay then they'd just click no and not feel guilty. Doesn't solve anything.

AvidWriter

(2 years ago)

if you read nfo files (SKIDROW etc.) "...and if you like game buy it... " . :)

afex777

(2 years ago)

Ah crowd sourcing, most companies are too in love with out of date business models to do that.

ArchLich

(2 years ago)

+1 Yes.

AvidWriter

(2 years ago)

Andarus (2 years ago)

Free Games are prety good. Good Games will always sell very well.

afex777 (2 years ago)

One thing if companies like Ubisoft or EA making overpriced shit-games this is not piracy problem (Ubisoft favorite explanationto PC games)its companies problems nobody want to pay for non interestig bad quality things. And for music artists they don't blame pirates its greedy corporations who have bigest part of money .

If the games are shit, fine. Don't buy them. Or pirate them, or play them. Just go buy good games.

By the way, I don't want to get too deep into math here, but a small share of some money is still more money than no money. The music industry needs to go, but piracy isn't helping.

movac

(2 years ago)

well yeah, they are busy feeding the software protection companies
and it takes not long to cracked versions be all over the internetz, I still don't get that

as for artists the more you leech, the better for them (there are exceptions) as they get popular and go play some lives/concerts, they earn their cash from there, not from selling the music

BassEffect

(2 years ago)

Leeching music from artists make them popular, especially undiscovered ones. They get heard around the world through downloadable music they released or something you might leech, either way they will be earning money from piracy.

Synch

(2 years ago)

KaiserTroll (2 years ago)

If you listen to Ubisoft, 93% of the market worldwide.

Synch (2 years ago*)

Piracy in my opinion isn't bad, maybe you hate Ubisoft and don't want to pay and buy their product pirate it if you enjoyed it buy it. Pirating is just for trying out games than going out and buying it after you play it for a bit.

I hate ubisoft quite alot.. :l

+1

afex777

(2 years ago)

Ubisoft and EA enforce me to get their games on console only

BassEffect

(2 years ago)

I can't force myself to buy games on console when i have my lovely PC to play on, but console exclusives for sure. Even though Ubisoft and EA are a bunch of greedy sluts.

Synch

(2 years ago)

oh well... you should see the prices (if not FREE for members) on PSN :D

i.e.: Am I Alive 7eur

BassEffect

(2 years ago)

Using the "I only download it to demo it is kinda BS. How many people do you know actually paid for it after they download it? I can say most probably beat it and say "oh I'll get it on sale on steam." -_-

AvidWriter

(2 years ago)

I haven't "pirated" anything in a very long time but I used to regularly buy legal copies of anything I enjoyed and/or spent significant time with.

Ad hominem dismissal is not an intelligent argument. Now as to the exact stats on how many people do that... well I have never seen any credible ones but we know it isn't everyone.

ArchLich

(2 years ago)

For acting like you understand the process of debate, it seems like you're missing the fact that the argument is BS, because how many people do you know that actually pay for a game after downloading it? Without numbers and statistics to back up the argument that people do use it as a demo to buy the game after trying it, the argument is invalid, there is nothing to support that theory. Plus an Ad Hominem is attacking the person, this argument is in fact, attacking the credibility of the argument, not the person that made the argument.

demyztikx

(2 years ago)

Quite a bit, but than again few people can't afford it.Most wiil beat the game in one sitting.. Than they'll be thinking i want to play Multi-player and run out and buy it(i wish). Plus "i'll get it on sale" is utter bullshit. Most of the time the game doesn't even go on sale till WAY LATE -.-

Synch

(2 years ago*)

Maby you do like this , but if game good I buy if not I delet it from my PC. Anrd lots of other do it like this. Not all but a lot.

afex777

(2 years ago)

Darkie (2 years ago)

Well..

I personaly buy my games but.. "yes the big but" some devs are pretty stupid and actually force some people to pirate, think about some of the games where they punish legit buyers with stupid drm, that sometimes makes the game unplayable/not able to function. But a pirated copy works without any stressing drm... Another thing is demo's I can understand why some people wanna try out the stuff before buying.

Also prices of some games are crazy...

If only all devs was like Paradox. No DRM and good support/community also mostly fair prices.. if the devs scratz customers backs then they will scratz them back.

Hey you forgot CD Project Red (Wicher series).

afex777

(2 years ago)

Yeah, it's quite interesting case. The publisher demanded the DRM. They had to add it, and it turned out not to work too well... So later just removed it...

Anyway, what was the point when there was DRM-free copy on GoG.com anyway. And what I understood the pirated game was cracked copy...

Ekaros

(2 years ago)

+1 DRM punishes legitimate customers.

ArchLich

(2 years ago)

Force people to pirate? hahahaha is that what people who only download games believe? Holy shit how stupid can you be.

AvidWriter

(2 years ago)

Your abusive and simple minded comments have contributed so much, thank you.

ArchLich

(2 years ago)

You clearly didnt read my post AvidWriter.

I said I buy all my games.. I just said why some don't want to buy and trust me those are valid reasons.. I've bought a game "lets not pick on the deve just yet" and I could not play my game for 6 days without getting booted from the game etc due to DRM problems, but all the pireates sure had no problem.. see my point.. I will and have not bought any game from that dev since ^^

Darkie

(2 years ago)

I agree completely. I believe that the best way to mitigate pirates is to take resources out of excessive DRM (anything more than steam is unnecessary) and put those resources either back into development, so a company may release a better product for the same price, or release the same product for a lower price, having saved x dollars / time / blood and tears on that game, making it more feasible for people to make the purchase in the first place.

The best salesman is the one that respects its customers. Treat a fanbase like shit (EA for example), and people will react with shit of their own.

jackofhats

(2 years ago)

Marcoskr (2 years ago*)

I usually download a game, try it, and if i think it is worth buying, i buy it. + i can't buy some games in my region (skyrim,..) on Steam, and i buy games with Steam only, so this is their fault

+1 me too :P

Jone991

(2 years ago)

Unit88 (2 years ago)

Wow so many intelligent people.

nasaria1 (2 years ago)

I just want to know if i'll get caught

"It's only illegal if you're caught." - The Crawling Chaos

eXcesT

(2 years ago)

that made me chuckle

TheRealDealReece

(2 years ago)

My teacher used to say the same thing too.

"It's only forbidden to cheat when you get caught".

KaiserTroll

(2 years ago)

AtomicWoodchuck (2 years ago)

I haven't pirated a game for years and years.

The only times I've been tempted have been when the game has been bundled with draconian DRM:

  • Stuff like the constant internet connection requirement (a pain in the arse in rural NZ, where the connection is as stable as a two legged chair)
  • Borderline malware like Starforce
  • Limited, irreversible install limits that are triggered when you change your graphics card, RAM or underpants.
  • Origin (don't want to trigger another shit fight, but unless EA make some big changes, I won't install it on my PC).

It's ironic that DRM is the one thing that still makes me consider illegally downloading games. Don't get me wrong - I'm not against all DRM. Steam doesn't bother me in the slightest, and is an example of an acceptable anti-piracy measure. On the other hand, GFWL or Tages ON TOP of Steam just plain sucks. Why, damn it? WHY!??

+1

ArchLich

(2 years ago)

Cause they are stupid and think they can beat Piracy. THey can't, no one can or ever will. You just need to try and prevent it as much as you can while rewarding people for actually paying for their stuff.

AvidWriter

(2 years ago)

this. nothing else will solve it. if you don't get more for buying a legal copy (in some cases pirated versions have LESS problems than their legal counterparts), it simply is not attractive enough. and i don't mean shitty pre-order ingame items, pirated versions contain those too in most cases. there has to be some extras and goodies in physical form, something you can hold in your hand that makes you say "hell yeah, i'm glad i bought this."

OR

forget about the extra stuff and release a digital download version, but make it cheaper and support and care for it as a developer. i am sure that more people would buy there games legally if developers/publishers followed these ideas.

Endokrepsis

(2 years ago)

Make a product that people want to pay for out of goodwill.

Ekaros

(2 years ago)

AvidWriter (2 years ago)

How bad is theft? It's just a thing that happens. You will never stop theft completely, you will never stop piracy completely. Companies need to realize this and stop punishing people who actually pay for their games.

mohawkg2 (2 years ago)

Actually, contrary to what most people think, doesn't hurt sales. When you pirate, say, a game, the dev is losing "potential" sales. Pirating a game doesn't affect sales. If you buy it, there, the dev gets extra money, if you pirate, the dev isn't losing anything, only a "potential" sale. Who's to say you would buy the game if you hadn't pirating the game? News Flash! No one. Notch says it better than I can: Notch on Piracy

If you think about it they actually lose money because of making the game and by selling it they first get back that money and then they get extra.

Unit88

(2 years ago)

The following formula is clearly incorrect:

Sales in a world without piracy = real-world sales + pirated copies

This is the formula used by content industries to estimate losses to piracy. It's also the formula you argued against. And yes, it's obviously wrong. But so is this one:

Sales in a world without piracy = real-world sales

That's the formula if piracy doesn't hurt sales: i.e. no-one who pirated the media would have bought it if they didn't have the option to obtain it for free.

Funny thing about the phrase "potential sale": it means there's potential for a sale. What's that potential, in a world without piracy? How about, at a wild-ass guess, 1 in 20. Here's another formula that's probably closer to the truth:

Sales in a world without piracy = real-world sales + (pirated copies / 20)

movac

(2 years ago)

ArchLich (2 years ago)

Piracy is a customer service issue.

Lezz (2 years ago*)

is bad? for the publisher, yes.
but the problem is not that simple...
first, the main problem is the prices, and the lack of regional prices, and second being able to but the games...
for example, in my country, Argentina, we don't have an actual place for games in the market (GFWL block this region, and Nintendo doesn't sell their products here, so if want to buy an original game for a wii,i have to order it from Brazil) so, people that want to keep legal, are fucked, more fucked if they want a console (a new PS3 coasts here aprox U$S500)... basically, the prices here, are a joke, a cruel joke. And the companies don't give a single fuck for the region, no advertising, no promotions, etc...
now we have problems with the foreing currency (restrictions, restrictions EVERYWHERE), making the whole thing more complicated.
so in this side of the world, is "grey", more than totally bad (like in the US, or most of europe, so fuck you and stop crying :D )
i used to be a pirate. but since TF2 goes F2P, i started to use steam, the sales are awesome, and is pretty easy to buy them... so now i'm not pirating games.
who to blame? the companies, they rule the market, they put the prices, and they make the restrictions, and they make the life more hard for those who actually pay for the games (yes, i'm talking about Ubisoft)...

i'm sure that a lot of people will buy the games (or music, or movies, etc) if:
·First: the companies put a regional price for their products, the minimun income here is aprox U$S500-U$S600, so a $60 game, is a LOT of money.

·Second: The companies should make a little easy (or at least posible) to buy their products. i will be happy even with a GameStop shop...

yeah, my english suck, so feel free to attack with grammar correction (but try to don't act like dicks)

Its not always bad for the publisher..

I've known many people that pirated games to try them out and then bought a game that would never have normaly.. so well.. sometimes they can win on it aswell :)

Darkie

(2 years ago)

you are good with your minimum income. the same income being average in Russia, while $100 being minimal...

mawile

(2 years ago)

In Argentina if you try to buy any retail game for any console it will cost you between $100 and $200. We usually stick to digital distribution if we want to pay for the game but we can't have that for consoles.

And even if our minimum income is around $500, our cost of living is pretty high too and you can't even rent an apartment and eat at the same time with that amount of money.

Nyhbi

(2 years ago*)

SuperFluffyKitty (2 years ago)

95% of games played by PC players are pirate copies

oh, look!, is the Ubisoft CEO!

Lezz

(2 years ago)

Ah I knew SFK was up to nothing good!

Ekaros

(2 years ago)

60% of the time I'm prirating all the time

SuperFluffyKitty

(2 years ago)

I limit to maximum of 90%. Those pesky ACK packets on asymmetrical connections. Not that I have reasons to pirate games anymore...

Ekaros

(2 years ago*)

lol, do you have a legitimate source for that? And no Ubisoft or EA marketing staff do not count as a legitimate source.

ArchLich

(2 years ago)

Not marketing staff at all, Ubisoft's CEO Yves Guillemot

SuperFluffyKitty

(2 years ago)

Did he source those stats? If done in house: did he allow outside peer reviews?

If the answers are "no" then =/= legitimate source.

ArchLich

(2 years ago)

Sorry I have led you astray, I am being facetious and my OP is not meant to be taken seriously...

SuperFluffyKitty

(2 years ago)

lol I'm not judging you, I am just saying the source is very questionable.

ArchLich

(2 years ago)

Does 2D Boy count? (Well, 90%, but that's still bad. And I can easily believe a high-profile AAA game would see 5% more piracy.)

movac

(2 years ago)

so obsolete news there.. but on another note with that headline, they created the "humble bundle" pay what you WANT deal.. im sure, that 2d boy's percentage of piracy for such game "world of goo" is nowhere close that number

s1N

(2 years ago)

Yes, the story's a few years old, but not many developers have a workable method to estimate piracy rates, and even fewer are willing to share their numbers. If the story is obsolete, do you think the piracy rate on PC has gone up or down?

2D Boy didn't create the Humble Indie Bundle, that was their friends at Wolfire. While I'm sure including World of Goo in various Humble Bundles has helped drive down that 90% figure (though not as much as you might think), that doesn't help us estimate the piracy rate for PC games in general, which was the original subject.

movac

(2 years ago)

Probably not: I rarely see anyone who actually pirates

Unit88

(2 years ago)

OH MAN, ubisoft is in da house.

Synch

(2 years ago)

Are you writing from asylium or ubisoft told you this console fan boy?Dear idiot you know how many members have steam , origins even uplay and other?

afex777

(2 years ago)

Sorry I have led you astray, I am being facetious and my OP is not meant to be taken seriously...

SuperFluffyKitty

(2 years ago)

I wish 95% of games would include pirates in one way or another. Arrr!

ReinekeFuchs

(2 years ago)

Sadly thats not true.. its more likely around 5% you would be suprised to see how many people that actually buy games ^^ Another thing.. its just as bad on consoles.. the only reason sales are bigger is due to more people and a console being a family system (yes thats what it is for kids and the family) I have known so many people that pirated games for consoles its np..

Darkie

(2 years ago)

Sorry I have led you astray, I am being facetious and my OP is not meant to be taken seriously...

SuperFluffyKitty

(2 years ago)

93.75% of statistics are made up on the spot

moyako1802

(2 years ago*)

69% of the internet is porn.

jackofhats

(2 years ago)

kosovaarcher (2 years ago)

Piracy is just as bad as this damn government robbing us everyday, but we pay a fine if we get caught doing it while the government walks away scotch free, jackasses...

Go to Somalia. Problem solved.

Belfour

(2 years ago)

Lavonas (2 years ago)

I think that musicians should take money only for concerts, and gief all their music for free distribution online or wherevar.

So you think concert tickets should be much more expensive than they currently are, and musicians should constantly tour to avoid poverty?

movac

(2 years ago*)

Actually some bands release super cheap/even some free albums on the internet but charge medium/high prices when they make concerts..

Prices have dropped quite alot and its resulted in more people buying and less resorting to piracy.

Darkie

(2 years ago)

Dude you are not a musician.

We don't make ANY money off of cd's. Bands make most of their money from touring already.

If you're in an unsigned band, next to no one will buy your cd because you're a nobody, and if you're in a signed band, the record company that signed you gets 80% of sales.

That's why many underground musicians (such as Holly Springs Disaster, for example, RIP) have part time jobs when they're not touring.

Underground bands that know the next thing about promoting their sound release free albums to people that otherwise wouldn't be listening to them. The only people that wouldn't apply to are popular musicians, who make hand over fist for selling out shows anyway.

The music analogy is a false one. It is a very different scene compared to games.

jackofhats

(2 years ago)

You're right. I'm not a musician, so I'll bow to your experience.

movac

(2 years ago)

Sorry to be so blunt, but the music industry and record labels in particular are something I've lost a lot of love for. Rough times.

jackofhats

(2 years ago)

Except for there are many artists that don't do live shows. And more that prefer not to do extensive tours. The idea of forcing musicians to only get paid from live shows is moronic.

salionski

(2 years ago)

Spaminer (2 years ago)

never bought anything online before.

but you need at least some legal games on your steam to register here so...

you buy retail prolly

PJchillout

(2 years ago)

No! never paid, never will. and about steam, it was easy to get it/them before they applied Steamguard.

Spaminer

(2 years ago)

Steam Guard is an account security system. Did you just publicly admit to stealing Steam accounts?

movac

(2 years ago)

what??!! NOO!! don't be silly..

Spaminer

(2 years ago)

PedroVarela20 (2 years ago)

You wouldn't donwnload an EA game. Oh... wait...

I won't, I refuse to use Origin! So that is entirely correct statement!

Ekaros

(2 years ago)

Foller (2 years ago*)

Frankly, I don't give a shit about movie and music piracy. If it really hurted the industry so bad, then those industries would've "failed" a long time ago. Meanwhile, movies cost hundreds of millions of dollars to make and earn much more than that, celebrities have personal jets and whatnot. It's really hard to feel guilty for pirating a TV show when you know that show's star earns half a million dollars for each 20 minute episode (and if they can pay the star 500k, how much are the directors and parent company earning?).
Game piracy is another matter, however, but I believe it doesn't matter a lot - I reckon the vast majority of people who download a game wouldn't buy it, or simply don't have the means to.

GringoDC (2 years ago)

it all comes down to prices.

PJchillout (2 years ago)

I pirate old games that aren't for sale on steam or reail were I live... or if there's no demo available

and I pirate tv shows that aren't available where I live but love to watch so

is downoading a no cd crack illegal if you own a copy of the game but your DVD was damaged?

No it's not. Although most games nowadays don't require a DVD in the drive, which is pretty good considering that my DVD drive is pretty broken. Most sites tell you that downloading the no DVD crack is only legal if you own a copy of the game.

Unit88

(2 years ago)

well I just play some older games thatI still had around and grew up with but the DVD's were damaged over time so my only resort was a no CD crack but I paid for the game anyway so...

PJchillout

(2 years ago)

Well at least in Germany it's illegal

0x442E472E

(2 years ago)

It's usually an infringement of the EULA, but it's debatable whether a lot of EULAs are legally enforceable anyway. Depends on where you live too.

Basically, you're not violating the spirit of the law, and if you own the game, there's no reasonable games company who will take it up with you.

TL:DR - Don't do this for Ubisoft games.

AtomicWoodchuck

(2 years ago*)

It is in the US under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, which makes "circumvent[ing] a technological measure that effectively controls access to a [protected] work" illegal. Laws elsewhere vary of course.

movac

(2 years ago)

HillaryClinton (2 years ago)

Monkey Island was pretty awesome from what I played so far, I think there should be more games about pirates, still wanna play Risen 2.

You would probably like Jolly Rover.

movac

(2 years ago)

I was looking at it, gonna play though Monkey Island first though.

:-)

HillaryClinton

(2 years ago)

My name is Guybrush Threepwood and I'm a mighty pirate.

ReinekeFuchs

(2 years ago)

I'm selling these fine leather jackets...

Valzi

(2 years ago)

thesn00ze (2 years ago)

Piracy is good. Good products will find their customers (Witcher). Even in music, check Reznor and Nine Inch Nails.
Now why some people pirate?
There are rarely demos for new games.
New games are overpriced (CoD).
Regional pricing for digital distribution? The biggest bullshit of the 21st century.
Buying original is often punishment for the customers (Games for Windows Live, Ubisoft DRM).
Late release in different states/continents (Mass Effect 3 for example, there was pirated version few days before release in the US, which was earlier than in the EU, so I had to wait one week longer).

When it comes to the comments about piracy, Ubisoft+EA have no idea (actually I believe they do, they just hide behind it) how piracy affects their sales but they can't just say, well, it is a shitty game, no wonder it is not selling well.

"New games are overpriced (CoD)."

I would never played CoD even if they paid me for it. And i definitely wouldn't waste my time downloading it.

B3N4K

(2 years ago)

That was an example. And that is your opinion, I personally find them "relatively" good.

thesn00ze

(2 years ago)

Some companies like ActivisionBlizzard and EA, like to peddle CONSOLE PHYSICAL RETAIL pricing on DDL services. It's ridiculous.

Vosse

(2 years ago)

+1

FizzyBubble1239

(2 years ago)

+1

jackofhats

(2 years ago)

I also know some people pirate (well this isn't really pirating) because the pirated version works on their computer compared to the original not working. I've seen the developers agree to it so I'm not sure about that either o_o''.

nosef

(2 years ago)

This topic is now closed.