You probably should have named this thread something like "game X or game X? or "what's going on with CV??" that way you'd at least get some replies nowadays on SG :/
But yeah I wholeheartedly agree with TB, after being burned by both my favorite franchises pre-orders are a huge no for me.
My counter to this new development is mainly to avoid any kind of articles that somehow could get me hyped for a game, I just forget about them completely and once they're out there and have been discounted i'll have a look at it again post release/patch/hype which has worked wonders for me so far, at least you run into a nice surprise once in a while as opposed to constantly being let down by overhyped games that either fail to deliver or just aren't as great as the hype made them out to be (looking at you watchdogs)
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You should've been doing that from the get-go. . .then again,i'm prolly older than you,so i could be into knowing of economy developments in gaming industry much more than you,and longer.it could be the other way around,with you being older n all that,but just being less patient when it came to newer releases and whatnot.
gotta add,I never got really,truly burned,since i never pre-ordered a single game - i find that specific money-grubbing publisher move to be very distasteful,and see it as nothing but extortion and taking hostage of ppl that actually support those companies.
It's like,"We ain't even half-way into finishing the game,polishing and publishing it,let alone gibing ppl some sort of alpha/beta access to get the true feel of it;the rendered gameplay we've shown # of times on various occasions has been done in our newest engine,but we won't actually execute the final game code thru it,but rather do it via old one,coz we like to misrepresent stuff and take your hard earned money,while skull-fucking you and letting you be the sheep that you are."
That's how I see it;I could be wrong,tho-I do understand,due to recent global economic climate changes,some companies have been hemorrhaging resources,but that could be the managements' fault.and Boards' fault too,for lending those executives too much funds and trust,and power,if nothing;they are the bane of the current globo-economics.The common guy should not be paying for their mistakes.
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I don't think that you're older then me, 26 atm but then again the crowd on SG varies in age quite a lot.
I actually only preordered a game once, which was Rome 2 since I've been playing the franchise since '01 and have sunk at least 1000 hours into each other title, I was even fully aware that their devs ALWAYS release buggy games, only to be fixed after a few patches yet this game was so "streamlined" (aka dumbed down for the masses as opposed to the niche game it used to be) that I honestly felt like crying after playing 1 hour, not because of the loss of money but since it became obvious my favorite franchise became something I couldn't like however hard I tried to like it.
"i find that specific money-grubbing publisher move to be very distasteful,and see it as nothing but extortion and taking hostage of ppl that actually support those companies."
Exactly this, not only are pre-orders mainly aimed at fans of the franchise, it's just 1 of the dirty tricks they employ to fuck over early adopters, another example would be GOTYE having a 75% discount yet the dlc only 50% meaning people who've purchased the base game at full price have to pay more for dlc then people who pick the game up for a couple of bucks, way to show your real fans some love.
I don't think this is due to having less resources then they used to have however, I think it's more a matter of their leadership lacking any kind human decency, where as the "old leaders" where just gamers making games now we've got all these suits running the companies who've never touched a game in their life, they're fine with ruining their brand for a quick buck instead of thinking ahead and cherishing the real fanbase since they execs will move on a few years later and all that counts for them is that they can show on paper that they've done "good" for the company since it's rather hard to show on paper that these tactics will ruin a company in the long run.
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yerp,the suits n ties,the modern,soulless,xenomorph,slave-masters;the enslavers of everything that is good and kind and utterly altruistic.personal gain is all that matters,and how big of a gain that is,dear lord it's huge.their creditors demand satisfaction,and ultimately they deliver,treading over corpses along the way,without looking back.it takes special kind of people(if you can even call them that),to become such fierce instruments of corporate hive mind.
on another note,i was having Square Enix in mind,when speaking about dissipating resos;at least that's what they've presented to the public,who knows if any of that is actually true.but some of it is most likely accurate,from having big losses with the newest franchise reboots n similar stuff,to those staff cuts-which are,without a doubt,consequence of bad leadership,as you've put it.Quantity over quality model,it's just bonkers how much of it is present in today's business management,and all over the world too.
i dunno man,sometimes i get too pissed off at where this planet's heading,yet i feel powerless to change anything.i know we live in a dystopian society,but still,i'm not sure how much longer i can put up with it,before i go Michael Douglas on the establishment,lol.
and btw,just for the record,i'm 30,so yeah,not too much,yet still older x]
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I like TB, I hate his wife though. She manages all his shit and she decided to ban me from the YT channel just for giving my opinion that she didn't like.
I never watched a TB video again.
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Have you ever stopped to think that maybe, maybe, you are prejudging me without even knowing what happened? Don't spread prejudice where it's not warranted.
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It's been my experience that about 95% of the time someone complaining about a ban was genuinely unpleasant/disrespectful (knowingly or not), so it's a fair question to ask.
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Dunno what went on there :/ I always found her fun and cute. TB is very lucky, imho, to have her. she reminds me alot of my GF, whom I love dearly.
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Yeah, she's all fun and cute when she plays games with TB... but when she gets in her businesswoman role..that's another story.
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xD women are like cobras, they mean business and if you mess with them, even unknowingly, they will bite.
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Don't worry. TB went and turned off Youtube comments, effectively banning everyone from his Youtube channel.
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I was blocked as well, for disagreeing with 1 point.
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While I agree to be careful with games with review embargoes, especially when it involves a console port. Just don't automatically assume it's going to be terrible, as Shadow of Mordor had an embargo until (I think, can't quite remember) release day, or at least 1 or 2 days before the pc release.
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I think Shadow of Mordor had (or still has) something along the lines of You will get a copy and you are allowed to make a video if you show certain features, have positive attitude towards the game, mention certain words in the video, not show any bugs or something along the lines of that
Found this the embargo, brand deal or whatever it is is around 1:30
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He does first impressions mostly, he does play a couple of hours before recording one however, something a lot of other don't do.
If you prefer a mature reviewer who isn't easily hyped and who also delves into specs and performance then TB is your guy, if you'd like your reviews/first impressions to be entertaining you're better of with other reviewers though imo.
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That's pretty much his thing. He goes through all the options menus, lets you know how it runs and gives his impressions from the first ~3-5 hours of playing the game. He is very anti-hype and quite pro-consumer, so you'll hear about any flaws or design issues he has with the title.
He also shows the gameplay footage in the background which is always helpful to see if it's a game you actually want to play. Kind of like a blend of a review and a let's play, but not exactly one or the other.
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Tb is highly critical, and has a standing ethical code regarding what he does. I enjoy his stuff very much for those two reasons mostly.
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I don't take it so much as bragging as I do saying "if the sodding game doesn't bloody run well on my computer, then just imagine how it will run on the average gamer rig." It's an informative matter to help consumers know "how well will it run on my computer" and all.
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if those vidoes were supposed to be a mere informative benchmarks,then he'd have both low-end and medium rig alongside that beast,for the sake of comparison.this way,it kinda looks like he's flaunting his e-peen around.but oh well,no one's perfect.
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Never really got that feeling, but he actually did run it on multiple machines if you watch the video.
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did he happen to mention the specs of those other machines?i dunno,i stopped watching his vids quite some time ago,as i find him a tad too obnoxious to even load any of his vidz.he is a unique,individual thinker,with an undisputed and unwavering integrity,i'll give him that. . .on the other hand,he is just too damn smug and sanctimonious to listen to ever again.that's how i feel.now excuse me.peace!
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He's an arrogant Brit, I'll give you that much xD but I findhis format, narrative, and knowhow, better than most others I've watched. Though occasionally I'll call BS on him, for the most part, I'm of the same mind with him on mosf things. But to each their own, and with the wideness of the internet, everyone can find someone they will support and follow xD
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It's a good thing this thread is about "buyer beware" and not a referendum on whether or not people should subscribe to TB's channel.
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Strangely,you seem to have missed out on the core of everything I've said in my replies.My general thought about TB isn't concerning whether one should sub to his channel or not.I was merely stating my impression of him and his appearance and likeness!go ponder. . .
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I believe I understand what you've been saying. I am hoping that this secondary discussion (which has nothing to do with the OP) does not devolve into a heated argument.
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It's about time we stopped reading 'release day' as 'purchase day'. There was an article on Forbes yesterday which can basically be summarised as 'hype sells' - meaning that customers shape the publishing process (game reviews, game marketing, game releases) by exercising patience and restraint, and making educated purchases. Some would call it victim blaming.
Tosh.
Just don't preorder anything. Ever. 'But what if I want to support the devel...' Ever.
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I've been trying to modify my behavior, but sometimes it's really difficult to resist. P
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1) I'd agree, but I'd also beware any game that gets lots of positive reviews before release date - they might not be honest and could be attempting to lure you into pre-ordering etc.
2) Wholeheartedly agree
3) We can never really know who those people are so there's a problem there. There's nothing to stop someone saying they're not being co-opted by publishers, appearing to be that way, even having a provable record of taking a stand against that kind oif thing but then secretly taking payments or getting perks for positive reviews of certain games from different publishers. "Don't trust anyone who could possibly benefit from lying to you" is the only true solution if we want to go down that road, and that would have to include TB himself.
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Regarding #3, you don't go by what they say, you go by what they do. Actions speak louder than words.
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Of course, I can get on board with that. Still, we don't know what people are doing at all times.
A woman could have a great husband as far as she's concerned, he might treat her wonderfully and she might think he's perfect. He may be cheating on her behind her back. Up until she finds out, and she might never find out, his actions as far as she is concerned were virtuous and righteuous. It's only when she finds out the reality of the situation that she realises the truth. Lol, I don't know exactly where I'm going with this as I'm certainly not advocating that people be wary of their husband or wife even they've given no reason to be, but when it comes to reviewers I do believe it wise to have your guard up slightly at all times and remain a bit skeptical, even with the ones who look like they have integrity.
If you flip it around and take reviewers who have shown that they can be co-opted, then definitely stay away from those. You'd be wise to put less faith in them than those who have a clean record.
I suppose I'm saying that the ones that have a clean record so far won't necessarily always remain that way. If I was a publisher and I wanted to co-opt some reviewers or gaming sites, I'd see it as a big coup to get the ones that people put faith in and appear to be trustworthy so those are the ones I'd love to target. Of course, the virtuous ones are more likely to blow the whistle on your shenanigans and expose you, but if you were successful then you're going to benefit more than if you corrupt someone that people already distrust.
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It would be easier and more effective to simply implement good business practices. Give good value for the money, and take good care of your customers. Businesses that do that tend to flourish.
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The alliteration of my user name is usually spelled "khaalaqa" when using the Cyrillic alphabet. In Arabic, that means "he was created."
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since we have bipolar example in the same time , DA:I and AC:U , it clearly that, if the Dev /Publisher confindence with the quality of the game, they will throw it review out ASAP to cause more hype , and oposite of that
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1) People shouldn't be pre-ordering games in the first place.
2) Frankly I can understand why they'd not want people leaking spoilers all over the 'net before a game's even released.
3) Right now I wish the embargo's lasted longer. As much as I understand people being pissed off about buggy releases, the 0/10 reviews don't do ANYONE any good once they fix the bugs. It just makes the reviews useless later.
4) Thanks to the hype machine, if a game isn't the best thing since sliced bread, it's automatically labeled as complete garbage anyway. It's gotten to the point where most of the reviews are useless either way.
5) Seriously, don't pre-order games. It's ridiculous.
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you a dev/in publishing practices of any kind?coz you sure sound like one of those.
the moral of the story here is,don't release shitty-crap,bug-ridden games and don't be a lying,thieving,scamming greedbag fuck and we'll all prosper equally.but they don't want equality,so there you have it.
ALSO,DON'T ABOLISH/VETO TRANSPARENCY.that one's the key,for what lies outside the waiting room.
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Sort of a stupid thing to be mad about. If you do not want to follow the embargo, then go out and buy your own copy of the game. The publishers really do not owe you a free advanced copy. And really, it is the free games they give out that physically and/or subconsciously always come with some strings attached that are bad for the review industry; not any specific practice like embargos.
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Embargoes are an old film industry trick. When the publisher believes they have a real stinker on their hands, they embargo the product, so only those who tow the line and follow the review "guidelines" can get access. All other reviewers have to buy their own ticket, which means their reviews come in AFTER release day, while all those who tow the line come BEFORE release day.
That way, the message put out there for release day is controlled and positive. And thus, the publishers salvage first day sales, since word of the product's stinkiness doesn't get out until after people have started purchasing on release day. The publisher can't salvage first week sales through such means, but they at least save release day. (Of course, that does mean they are salvaging release day sales by manipulating a weakness in the system in order to chisel money out of people that they wouldn't otherwise spend.)
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But there is no inherent right for anyone to have or publish a review before the release or any product, especially something that is story based an subject to spoiling. I really doubt that anyone who goes out release day to purchase a game would of cared if some game critic disliked it. If you do not care about getting a fair and unbiased opinion on the game pre-purchase, then obviously if one existed or not is sort of irrelevant.
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A controlled message fostered by an embargo is a well-documented difference of many millions of dollars on a major release. It's big money to ensure that word of stinkiness doesn't get out before first day release. The film industry has been doing this for decades, so if you're interested there's a lot of info available about it.
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wut?
My impression is that you have neither read the OP (to which you are supposedly responding) nor watched the video that inspired it. If you had, you would know that this discussion is not about "free copies" at all (many reviewers buy their own), but rather about some developers' attempts to suppress consumer information regarding their sub-par products.
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Embargo's can only happen when a reviewer gets a free copy of a game. There is no way to force people who buy a game from talking about it, but if you enter into contract with the publisher in exchange for a free copy their is any number of things they can ask for. So they are meaningless, there is no great need for pre-release reviews, and that is the only thing that embargo's stop. Meanwhile there are loads of real and varied harm done by reviewers getting special treatment from publishers.
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In my opinion, there is a great need for pre-release reviews, because (and only because) A LOT of people pre-order games.
As TotalBiscuit said in the video, getting for free or paying for the review copy would make no difference, since what makes money for most of the game media is having the info before everyone else. And even if they had to pay for the copy, the embargos would still happen since the publisher are allowing these people to play before the release date.
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If you'd bothered to watch his video you would have understood that, as he explained, people who do first impressions/reviews don't do it for the free copy of the game, they do it so they can actually have a video up on release day. If he'd simply buy the game and get it ON RELEASE it would be impossible for him to release any decent video on the day of release because either he would be very uninformed when it comes to the game, only being able to play it for a few hours before having to do the actual video, or he would have to release a video on it 1-2 days later and by then most people would have just gone to someone who had a review copy to get what TB is offering.
You also say there's no need for pre-release reviews, and that's just plain stupid. Of course there is need for them, it can stop impatient people who can't wait for actual reviews/first impression videos from buying a shit game on impulse or from preordering if the reviews are really early. And it's exactly this reason that makes publishers/developers impose embargoes, they're not confident enough in their games or know their games are bad so they try to get as many uninformed purchases as possible.
I understand you're worried about spoilers but that has nothing to do with it, if you don't want spoilers simply don't watch, others care about the quality of the games more than the risk of spoilers. Not to mention TB usually talks about the technical aspects/issues before even getting into the actual game and, if it's possible, he does side quests/mission to avoid main story spoilers.
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Another thing, wtf is happening with reviewers! Binding of Isaac Rebirth was released for quite some and I have only read 2 reviews so far, on metacritic there is only one... really wtf.
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At least on Steam there are over 7300 reviews already. I preordered the game and was I happily surprised to find over a 1000 reviews (from steam users) on the first day but it's true that the game hasn't appear on as many sites as it should. What makes it even weirder, it's that many gaming sites (like gamespot and ign) had been talking about the game before it's release but completely ignored it once it was out.
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I don't buy games new, and I sure as a shit don't pre-order any more.
I don't give a crap what TB or any other game 'critic' thinks of a game. They are in it for the money, just like the publishers.
If stupid people waste money on a pre-release or new release, they have no one to blame but themselves.
Game publishers are going to do anything they can to increase sales. Don't like it? Don't buy their future games.
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While I don't really get his point of "views after release = do not have the game already", I wholeheartedly agree on his point of not buying before you know. I wonder if people also bought cars because of an ad on TV without a test drive. The game doesn't go bad because you get it a week later and I'd really like to see this culture of ADHD-like game shopping equal to Cartman on KFC or the Wii to vanish and make room for quality game development once more.
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I agree. It would be nice for the "buy it before you know if it even works" mentality to disappear, but I'm not going to hold my breath for it. The only reason the game industry does it is because we, the consumers, buy into it. When there's no demand for something, the market for it disappears.
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Here is an in-depth analysis by TB on review embargoes, including the new stance that he and a few others are taking when dealing with them. It covers the following topics:
While I recommend viewing the entire video, the most important points may be summed up as follows.
1) Beware of any game that doesn't allow the publishing of reviews until after release day.
2) Be a skeptical and responsible buyer and exercise patience to prevent yourself getting ripped off.
3) Support those outlets/reviewers who refuse to be co-opted by the publishers.
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