Quick Links: SG Group page + GA list / Steam Group & Forums / Member List & Stats

Status: Open to recruits, and running monthly contests!

Since July, we've held monthly contests where the winner wins a game outright from me (last winner chose S.T.A.L.K.E.R.: Call of Pripyat) and becomes the Steam Group's "Player of the Week" (for a month). Current criteria is a combination of GA entries and # of GAs of games $6 or higher value.


Do you want simpler group rules with flexibility on what and how often you give? Do you like having a decent chance at winning GAs and freedom to enter any GA at anytime? Do you want most of your group GAs to get 5+ entires so the CV counts?

Its in the BAG!: Balancing Act Guild


Life can be a balancing act - We make things simple for our members to gift & win games as they choose so they can focus on just having fun!
Meanwhile the guild leaders have a unique way of managing the group's own balancing act - More on that later...


Joining the group is simple:

  1. In general, have more Sent than Won CV (regular or real) or request further review (give group names where you have a positive Value Diff, etc).

  2. Be Level 3 or higher on SG in good standing with SG/ST.

  3. Click "Request to join" button in our Steam group, and post a meme or something...or don't meme - You be you

  4. In 2 weeks: Create group-only one time 20 Point OR two 15 Point or higher GAs that are not "No Value", post it in our forum (members only), and have a verified winner for each GA.

After that, no other mandatory or monthly GAs, gift when & what you want! Initiation GA is designed to mitigate becoming a CV Negative Nancy after your first wins from the group.


Group leaders have tools that regularly monitor all initiation and on-going GAs, far beyond the simple group user stats.


Rules for staying a member are relatively simple:

  1. Be excellent to each to each other and follow SG/ST rules (because guilds have merchants)

  2. Please do not add any other group or whitelist to the group GAs (Exclusive GAs keep our Average Entries stat in-tact used to manage membership - See below)

  3. Keep a positive "Value Difference" in our group (Sent minus Received CV) because each month we will remove one or more members with the worst negative Value Diff - This is the balancing act folks (Easily check your stat here anytime in SG.)

  4. Be reasonable with your group GAs. (Don't post mostly GAs with no value, 1-5 Points, level restricted, region restricted, or <1 day GA length. A few are ok but that's more what public GAs are for, lol)


Our monthly purge will only be one person unless guild's Average Entries are equal to or greater than Extra Purge Threshold :O...Having a positive Value Diff will be safe from this purge! Former members wishing to rejoin will have extra requirements in the FAQ under the "Rejoining the group" section.

See full FAQ for details.

Our current Extra Purge Threshold is 10 average entries, so if Average Entries gets larger then that, we will purge a number of extra people equal to [Average Entries] - [Extra Purge Threshold]. We will stop recruiting if Average Entries ever reaches: 25 average entries.

Tweaks to rules or Purge Threshold may occur in the future but will be transparent, and everything is at leaders' discretion: Such things will be announced through this page, the Steam Group's announcements & private forums, and/or leaders' group GAs, etc.


Perhaps the most important question & answer: How do people avoid getting purged from the guild when Average Entries are large?

  1. Gift back more or higher value games to the group, and maybe your heart will grow 3 sizes that day.

  2. Check the group's wishlist here, and gift things near the top to get THICC entries. All you need is one verified winner for your GA to count toward group VD. # of entries only matter only if you want the CV to count on your profile (5 entries are required for that).

  3. Keep a positive Value Diff will keep you safe from periodic purges, and check your position in the group's user list sorted by VD - In this case VD positive is a good thing! To see the guild's lowest Value Diffs, go to the last page of that user list.

  4. There are multiple ways of getting notified when a purge may happen: Enable group announcement notifications using Steam Chat's Friend List settings under Notifications, enable it in the Friend Activity list by navigating to [Your Username] » Friend Activity » Friend Activity Settings within Steam, or subscribe to the group forum's Moderation Log (visible to members only).

3 months ago*

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Can i join? I used to be active in the past but want to get back to steamgifts again!

1 month ago
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Welcome back - What game(s) would you give for your first time giveaway with our guild?

1 month ago
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Idk, i got some keys for party hard 2 and some fps games like stalker and the fallout franchise :v

1 month ago
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Sounds good, I've added you :)

1 month ago
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Great, thanks!

1 month ago
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1 month ago
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We currently have over a page of active GAs and I added some more today

1 month ago
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Renegade, I sent a friend request on Steam since I have a question about the group.

1 month ago
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Accepted

1 month ago
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May I join?

1 month ago
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Sure - You have up to two weeks for your initiation GAs to be completed

1 month ago
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Can i join your sexy group mate ?

1 month ago
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For your sexy CV ratio, sure - I look forward to your initiation GA(s)

1 month ago
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Posted my first sexy giveaway in the sexy group. :)

1 month ago
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Would love to join

1 month ago
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Glad to have you - Enjoy our GAs and look forward to seeing yours :)

1 month ago
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Hello my new friend i want joined:)
Check the my Sg profie:)

1 month ago
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Hey glad you are joining - Welcome to the guild!

1 month ago
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I am interested! I loved the Grinch reference! I sent a request in the steam group.

1 month ago
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Glad you caught that!
Do you have a certain game or two in mind for your first time giveaways(s)?
Just curious since it would be your first ever giveaway to a group.

1 month ago
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1 month ago
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I have Borderlands The Handsome Collection but not sure if i can use that for a give away (it does not show in the list).

Otherwise I have RiME, Endless Legend, and a couple of copies of Snake Pass.

1 month ago
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Sounds good - I've added you to the group!

Two key rules to keep in mind: Do not add any other group or whitelist to your giveaways for our group. Also, make sure most of your giveaways don't have no value (with ** in the name when creating the GA), 1-4 Points, or region restricted.

I have Borderlands The Handsome Collection

You can submit a Support ticket here on SG and ask for this "sub" within Steam to be added: https://steamdb.info/sub/322690/

1 month ago
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Thank you! I have sent a ticket asking for them to add it. Thanks for the link

1 month ago
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Applied!~ I like how it sounds. :o

1 month ago
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Great - I look forward to your initiation GAs (one 20P or two 15P)

Two key rules to keep in mind: Please don't add any other group or whitelist to your giveaways for our group. Also, make sure most of your giveaways don't have no value, 1-4 Points, or region restricted.

1 month ago
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After some brief reading, I notice something that I think I should point out in your group rules.

Keep a positive "Value Difference" in our group

It is impossible for every member to achieve this, due to the zero-sum nature of the value difference. For someone to stay positive, someone in the group must take up the negative.

1 month ago
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It would be impossible, if you would define 0 as negative. Otherwise this rule would ensure, that if everyone is aiming to have a positive VD, in theory there is one scenario where everyone has a VD of 0, which would be totally balanced and either negative nor positive. Due to the name of the group, that's not a bad goal to aim at :D

As of my understanding this rule is just to ensure that you will stay in the group. Having a negative VD does not automatically mean you will get auto-kicked. Which is a good thing, for people (like yourself) who likes to give more than take, so they don't need to care about these rules (there is no forced monthly GAs or no activity rule, this is a pretty simple and easy set of rules for a group if you usally have positive VD anyways).

1 month ago
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Nah, I do not intend to join LOL. Just pointing out some flaw in the rules.
My point is, it is technically impossible for everyone to have positive VD in one group.

If someone is really generous in creating giveaway, that he earned +$1000 worth of VD, the entire group must have collectively absorbed -$1000 worth of VD. It could be one giant leecher taking the -$1000, or spread out to 100 members tanking the -$10 VD. In a weird sense of saying, the more giveaway you create for this group, the more members you are going to kick out of the group.

If the goal is to aim for all zero (perfectly balanced, as all things should be), then the perfectly ideal way is for everyone to ONLY win the exact same value as they have created. Which is kinda unrealistic IMO.

Edit: To add-on, I'd like to suggest a solution for this flaw in the group rule. Instead of enforcing everyone to have positive VD, put up a threshold of negative instead. For example: To stay in the group, members cannot go below -$100 in VD, or 5% of the group's total contribution of the month. This way, generous member can still exists, and the group can keep growing in size while putting giant leecher in check.

1 month ago*
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My point is, it is technically impossible for everyone to have positive VD in one group.

That's right. So anyone who cares to stay in the group will be motivated and more engaged than others in the group to boost their Value Diff from negative to positive, and whoever wins MIGHT go from positive to negative. Not everyone with negative VD will be kicked, and not everyone with negative VD is at risk of being kicked, which is why the FAQ outlines a max # of people that can get purged at the beginning of a purge warning period: 4*[Average entries-Target Average Entries])

If the goal is to aim for all zero (perfectly balanced, as all things should be)

The meme was non-specific on what was being balanced, but the introductory questions imply what is being balanced: The balance we seek to have is between winners ("decent chance at winning GAs") and gifters ("most of your group GAs getting 5+ entires so the CV counts"). The hypothesis supported by other groups' data is that there is some number of Average Entries that ensures 90% of all GAs on average will get 5+ entries.
We never claim that there is a perfect balance between positive or negative in-group VD. In fact, right now only 35% of users have negative VD, which means 65% are positive or 0 VD.

Instead of enforcing everyone to have positive VD, put up a threshold of negative instead. For example: To stay in the group, members cannot go below -$100 in VD, or 5% of the group's total contribution of the month.

The guild is an experiment, so I may tweak how purges happen before a purge check or after a purge, but currently the balance is centered around a targeted number of Average Entries which I may significantly lower soon. If I wanted this guild to be just like so many others SG groups, I could set more static rules like a fixed VD amount or some other formula, but I hesitate in homogenizing the group like that until we experiment further with Average Entries as a trigger for purging. A VD formula would be a Plan B if Average Entries doesn't work out.

he earned +$1000 worth of VD, the entire group must have collectively absorbed -$1000 worth of VD. It could be one giant leecher taking the -$1000, or spread out to 100 members tanking the -$10 VD. In a weird sense of saying, the more giveaway you create for this group, the more members you are going to kick out of the group.

"some members with the worst Value Difference" means not all members with negative VD. Gifting can increase the number of people that MIGHT get purged when people with low positive VD win, but number of people purged is not based exclusively on VD in the group.
Rather purges and number of people purged are triggered by Average Entries reaching a threshold.

Even in a worst case scenario of purging 6 people every month but we ignore any existing or newer members dropping from positive to negative CV, it would take 6 months to "purge" every VD negative member. Since Average Entries grows slowly after hundreds of GAs have been completed (which we have), it would be more like 2 per month, which would take 2 years.

Here is how that worst case purge scenario, and purges in general, play out as derived from a scenario in our FAQ:

  • Let's say that the guild reaches 100 members, and let's say that 65% of members have positive or no VD and 35% have negative VD (that's real %s from late July 2019).
  • Let's say that average entries went above the target, 2 weeks pass, it is purge time, and average entries has risen amazingly to 28 (Average Entries grows much more slowly after hundreds of GAs). Current rules state that number of purged members will be 6 because 2*(28 average-25 target).
  • After the purge, guild only has 96 members: 65 with positive VD and 29 with negative VD.
  • Let's say over the next two or more weeks the group happens to get 10 more members to fill their place (we've gotten as many as 5 in half a day).
  • Before creating their mandatory GA, the 10 new members at 0 VD are already ahead of the 45 existing members with negative VD.
  • After 10 new members create their 20+ Point (or two 15+ Point) one time mandatory GA, some of them will "beat" the existing low positive VD members, putting them higher than at least X+29 existing members out of 104 (100-6+10) total members, where X existing members with low positive VD. It is possible that some number of members that had low positive VD will drop into negative.
  • These new members and existing members can drop to negative CV at any time by winning GAs.
1 month ago
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Wow, such huge wall of texts.

My main point is still correct, isn't it?

There will always be someone in the group be kicked out eventually. It is impossible for everyone in the group to stay in the group indefinitely. Even if everyone is being generous to the group, there will ALWAYS be someone that is least generous. An analogy will be: even when the whole group consists of 100% super generous millionaires and billionaires, the last few poorest millionaires will still be kicked out.

Just so you understand my argument, I am not saying it is impossible for one person to stay in the group indefinitely. I am saying that, is it impossible for the entire group to stay in the group indefinitely (ie. there isn't a possibility where a purge doesn't happen. Somebody will always be purged from the group).

Simpler understanding of the rules will be, it isn't so much about "be generous, and you will stay in the group". It is "be generous, and must be more generous than other members in the group".

1 month ago*
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My main point is still correct, isn't it?

Yes, I acknowledged that up front, and I have not claimed that everyone will have positive VD in the group:

My point is, it is technically impossible for everyone to have positive VD in one group.

That's right.

Perhaps you thought my "worst case purge scenario" was my way of claiming that everyone will have positive VD? It wasn't - It was intended to specifically outline an example of how a purge would work for a given scenario, and the number of people remaining in the group if that scenario repeated.

As for your other newer statements:

It is impossible for everyone in the group to stay in the group indefinitely.

It is not likely for all group members to stay indefinitely, but it is possible for one or several of members to stay indefinitely as long as they give more CV from the group than what they win, because the purge rule only applies to people with negative Value Difference (VD=Sent CV - Received CV).

Even if everyone is being generous to the group, there will ALWAYS be someone that is least generous. An analogy will be: even when the whole group consists of 100% super generous millionaires and billionaires, the last few poorest millionaires will still be kicked out.

True first statement, but the analogy you gave of everyone being millionaires is not likely to come true because of the diversity of members ranging from level 3 to level 10 - Many of which have their overall user Sent CV greater than Received CV. A person who gives to the group $100 CV and wins $90 CV (VD=+$10) has the same exact standing in the group as a person who gives the group $5,000 CV and wins $4,990 CV (VD=+$10).

I am saying that, is it impossible for the entire group to stay in the group indefinitely

I don't make that claim. I do claim that a person's choices of giving compared to entering/winning GAs, and that the ratio of those relative to the ratio of others (aka Value Diff) influences their likelyhood of staying. If a person chooses to always gift more than they win, they will have a positive Value Diff, and will never be a part of a periodic purge. Not everyone makes this choice, and thus we have people who have negative Value Diff, and then they are at risk of periodic purge.

Simpler understanding of the rules will be, it isn't so much about "be generous, and you will stay in the group". It is "be generous, and must be more generous than other members in the group".

In the context of gifting, I consider "generous" as someone giving more CV than what CV they receive/win, and anyone who does not is "not generous", do you agree? So given that group rules state that only some negative VD people are subject to periodic purging, then only "not generous" people will ever be purged because positive and 0 VD people are excluded from such periodic purging. Therefore, nobody "generous" will be purged, as a "generous" person would have to become "not generous" to be purged.

1 month ago
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Well, since you are acknowledging my points, I don't feel the need to elaborate any more.
Although I do still feel that you don't see the problem that I see.

For VD to work, you will NEED those negative VD.
If everyone avoided negative VD (by not joining any GA), people who creates giveaway will no longer have any participant, and thus they will never gain any positive VD anymore.

But I guess, your group will continue to grow in VD due to the fact that there will always have leechers trying their luck in the group, that join and leave the group after leeching VD from elitist that maintains positive VD.

In the context of gifting, I consider "generous" as someone giving more CV than what CV they receive/win, and anyone who does not is "not generous", do you agree?

Nope, I don't agree. Not when the context is zero-sum in nature.

When VD comes into play, people who "take" gifts in the group are giving their VD for the giver. You can say they are "buying" giveaway gifts with their VD. If the entire group consists only people who create GA and don't join any GA created by others, then the creator won't even have any GA entries at all to fulfill their positive VD gain. So, in your group, I'd consider people who enter GAs are generous in spending their VD.

1 month ago
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Well, since you are acknowledging my points, I don't feel the need to elaborate any more.

[Elaborates more]

This is all just a thought exercise for me, so thanks for that ;)

For VD to work, you will NEED those negative VD.

I already acknowledged that the group won't completely run out of people with negative VD, and even if we ignored existing or new members becoming negative VD, the fastest that could happen would realistically be 2 years:

Even in a worst case scenario of purging 6 people every month but we ignore any existing or newer members dropping from positive to negative CV, it would take 6 months to "purge" every VD negative member. Since Average Entries grows slowly after hundreds of GAs have been completed (which we have), it would be more like 2 per month, which would take 2 years.

In the context of gifting, I consider "generous" as someone giving more CV than what CV they receive/win, and anyone who does not is "not generous", do you agree?

Nope, I don't agree. Not when the context is zero-sum in nature.

If the context were truly zero-sum in nature, then the sum of all Value Diffs in the group should be 0, but it is not. The literal sum of all the group's user VD at the time of my comment was +$207.21 (thanks to the SGEST extension + Excel). This is in part because when someone leaves or gets removed from the group, everyone else's Value Diff and group-specific remains stats stay the same.

If the entire group consists only people who create GA and don't join any GA created by others, then the creator won't even have any GA entries at all to fulfill their positive VD gain.

Sure, but again I've outlined how unlikely it would be to purge everyone with negative VD (taking 2 years if nobody new or existing goes negative VD). Even if everyone was purged with negative VD, which you seem to be concerned about, consider the current sum of group's user VD of +$207.21. This means that the positive VD users could continue to be "generous" by spending a total of $207.21 CV or less on winning games without their VD going negative.

4 weeks ago
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This means that the positive VD users could continue to be "generous" by spending a total of $207.21 CV or less on winning games without their VD going negative.

Yeap. So in order to boost the VD of the group, you will need fresh people to join, leech some -VD, and leave/kick. Then the overall VD of the group will be nett positive. That's how it works.

4 weeks ago
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Don't miss our ~50 GAs happening now! I've also queued up some additional GAs starting on Sunday.

July Featured Gifter contest - Top 5 Scores:

Whitemage87 = 65
Geralt28 = 51
DinoFarce = 50
thoughtfulhippo = 49
Fluffster=45

The criteria for July's Featured Gifter is:

  • Score = (Average Entries of all your July GAs) * 2 + Total # of July GAs
  • For July GAs ending before July 31 23:59 Eastern Time.
  • GAs and members must follow group rules to qualify, especially "be reasonable" rule where most of your GAs shouldn't be no value or 1-4 points.
  • Tiebreaker will be user overall Value Diff on SG.
1 month ago*
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Sounds interesting, I would love to join! ╰( ◕ ᗜ ◕ )╯

1 month ago
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Welcome to the guild! I look forward to your initiation giveaways, and hope we can get you some more wins too

1 month ago
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Aw, thank you, that would be nice :3 Just created my first giveaway.

1 month ago
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Rule updates on July 24

"Don't post mostly GAs of no value, 1-5 points/$, level/region restrict stuff, or <1 day long"

That means don't let more than half of your GAs match ANY of those things. Why? 5 point giveaways have the worst chance of getting 5+ entries (one out of three GAs). Your Real CV will thank me later ;)

New purge criteria:

  • To balance game gifting and giveaway entries, our Purge Threshold is: 10 average entries
  • We will stop recruiting if Average Entries ever reaches: 25

So if Average Entries is equal or greater than 10, then announcements will be made, and one or more people with the lowest negative VD will be purged per month.

An August contest will be run to encourage GAs with higher entries/demand!

See the latest Steam group announcement for more details on these changes.

4 weeks ago
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4 weeks ago
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CV ratios are good but I'm going to have to decline for now:
http://www.sgtools.info/nonactivated/TalkingMadness
Also, two gifts were sent that were Not Received, and more than half of your GAs are No Value games. We don't allow most of our group GAs to be $0-5.
Feel free to reapply when you double your full or reduced value GA count and not have an increase in gift issues.

4 weeks ago
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4 weeks ago
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44 GAs are currently active

July Featured Gifter contest - Top 5 Scores (updated July 26):

Whitemage87 = 65
Geralt28 = 53
DinoFarce = 50
thoughtfulhippo = 49
Amcestral = 36

4 weeks ago
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Hello I’d like to join.

3 weeks ago
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Glad to have a fellow PA member on board! Be sure to check out my GAs batches ending and starting in 7 hours

3 weeks ago
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Thanks for your approval!

3 weeks ago
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~48 live GAs right now, in the final stretch for our July contest!

July Featured Gifter contest - Top 5 Scores (updated July 29):

Geralt28 = 53
DinoFarce = 50
thoughtfulhippo = 49
Whitemage87 = 46
Amcestral = 38

3 weeks ago
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sounds like it's worth a try.
i'm in! maybe?

3 weeks ago
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Great to have you - Welcome to the guild! Look forward to your first GAs

3 weeks ago
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thanks & on to gibs glory!

3 weeks ago
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Interested in joining

3 weeks ago
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Right on, you've been added :) We await your initiation GAs: One 20P or two 15P (or higher)

Two key rules to keep in mind: Please don't add any other group or whitelist to your giveaways for our group. Also, make sure most of your giveaways don't have no value, 1-4 Points, or region restricted.

3 weeks ago
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Direct from Steam we have also welcomed s0bster to the group who has been on SG for over a year :D

3 weeks ago
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SG veteran of 5 years, Ottis, has joined!

3 weeks ago
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Rule Updates

Old rule:

  1. Keep a positive "Value Difference" in our group (Sent minus Received CV) because we will periodically remove members with the worst negative Value Diff (Check it anytime in SG using the link in this group page's sidebar).[/quote]

New rule:

  1. Keep a positive "Value Difference" in our group (Sent minus Received CV) because each month we will remove one or more members with the worst negative Value Diff (Check it anytime in SG using the link in this group page's sidebar).

Old Q&A items:

How often will Average Entries versus Extra Purge Threshold be checked?
No more than once every 2 weeks, we will verify that the groups' Average Entries is less than Purge Threshold and Recruit Threshold.

What happens after if Average Entries is STILL equal or larger than Extra Purge Threshold?
The number of users with the worst negative "Value Difference" purged from the group is: 2*([Average Entries]-[Extra Purge Threshold]), but no more than Maximum Purge Number.

New Q&A items:

How often will Average Entries versus Extra Purge Threshold be checked?
No more than once per month, we will verify that the groups' Average Entries is less than Extra Purge Threshold and Recruit Threshold.

What happens after if Average Entries is STILL equal or larger than Extra Purge Threshold?
The number of extra users with the worst negative "Value Difference" purged from the group is: [Average Entries]-[Extra Purge Threshold], but no more than Maximum Purge Number.

3 weeks ago
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July Featured Gifter contest:

Congrats to Geralt28 with the top score!

Final Top 5 Scores:
Geralt28 = 53
DinoFarce = 50
thoughtfulhippo = 49
Whitemage87 = 46
Amcestral = 39

Geralt28 selected S.T.A.L.K.E.R.: Call of Pripyat as their prize and is now "Player of the Week" on our Steam page.

August contest:

August's contest rewards a balance of high number of giveaways and high number of entries. It doesn't focus so much on high entries like last month did. The winner will receive one game outright from my gift inventory, and will be crowned the Steam group's "Player of the Week".

Some general rules:
-Only giveaways worth 6 points/$ each or higher will qualify
-For GAs ending between August 1 00:00 and August 30 23:59 Eastern Time.
-GAs and members must follow group rules to qualify, especially exclusive GAs, and the "be reasonable" rule where most of your GAs should not be no value, 1-5 points, region restricted, or <1 day long.
-Tiebreaker will first use increased decimal places for the formula, then the users' Value Diff in the group.

It will use this formula:

1000 * (Group Average Entries - [ (Total group entries-Total # entries for your month's GAs) / (Total group GAs sent-Your # of month's GAs) ] )

The formula basically determines how much your GAs for the month positively contribute to overall Average Entries.

If this formula was used last month: The winner would've had 7 giveaways with an average of 21 entries each, and second place would've had 16 giveaways with an average of 11 entries each.

3 weeks ago
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August Contest so far

Top 5 scores (as of August 5):
Gawrazan = 36
Shinigami2019 = 29
Marcuria = 26
Ottis = 22
Whitemage87 = 16

Only giveaways worth 6 points/$ each or higher will qualify.

2 weeks ago
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