It's easy enough for me to find robust e-mail and browser options with non-PRISM companies, but I'm ignorant about whether there is a robust search engine that's a viable alternative to Google and/or Bing.

Can anyone point me in the direction of something they've used successfully?

Same with online map programs. I'm using Mapquest (going old school!) again now. :)

11 years ago*

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People seriously overprotect themselves and exaggerate when it comes to privacy. What the hell kind of things are you searching for, if you're so afraid they'll be 'tracked'? Apparently you aren't aware that even your Internet Service Provider is capable of tracking all the websites you browse (thus the searches you make and so forth).

Edit: forgot to give you an anonymous search engine, so here you go.

11 years ago
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so much +1

11 years ago
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Why would it be overprotecting? Dude wants to take care of his privacy and wants to make sure that what he does is known to him and him only. I can relate to this and I think it's his right to wish to protect his right to privacy if he wants.

11 years ago
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As I said, no matter what browsers, clients or websites he/she uses, they'll all still be tracked in one way or another. For example, even if my suggested SE is used, it still saves as a visited link (e.g. if he/she searched for cookies, it would be visible as https://duckduckgo.com?q=cookies, and instantly understandable what he was looking for.)

11 years ago
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I'm looking for non-NSA-program alternatives, regardless of how they track in house.

11 years ago
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he means your computer and isp would both track you anyway. not in house, not even saying duckgo would have to.

11 years ago
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I'm really not trying to make this a political discussion, but just looking for alternatives.

11 years ago
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Deleted

This comment was deleted 1 year ago.

11 years ago
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I sometimes wonder how many people were actually framed into crimes since the dawn of digital society by various government agencies worldwide. Because it's so easy (and cheap) to do so when you know where someone has been and what he was doing all the time, that I would be greatly suprised if no one did that.

11 years ago
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Why bother framing them when governments have no issues labeling you as Capitalist scum, who collectively hire most of a countries workforce.

11 years ago
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That's a long read, but I'll look it over, thanks. However, if we stay realistic, there are billions of internet users, more than half a billion of which are in the EU or North America. A person has to act pretty damn suspicious to be tracked by a government organisation and for them to try and put together pieces as to how one might be a potential threat.

11 years ago
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act pretty damn suspicious

Like protesting.

11 years ago
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Switzerland had a secret program after World War 2, where they gathered information about every person which acted "suspicious".
Being "suspicious" was, having a communist friend, being seen NEAR a protest group against capitalism, going to certain places where "communists" would visit (cafés, bars, restaurants etc.), protesting against nuclear plants and the destruction of the eco-system.
The list goes on and on and on. After the program became public, they had to grant insight to all the people which they had information about. Our history teacher had such file and showed it to us and it was DAMN accurate. They even had entries about him visiting his family and friends etc. So some people from which he knew, delievered informations about him to the government.

Now think about the time they gathered those informations (1950-1980) .... With the current status of Internet and social media, my guess is that A LOT of people are on the "suspicious" list ...

11 years ago
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Exactly.

11 years ago
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Excuse me sir, would you terrible mind if I took up residence in your home for the remainder of your life? Id also require full access to every moment of your life. Private time in the shower? Ya, gunna need to be there. Wife/gf? Ya, certainly need to watch them wherever they go, and so on.
But hey, youve done nothing wrong right? So what are you worried about?

11 years ago
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No need to exaggerate to such an extent. It's not like the government is putting up cameras in your bathroom, they're just keeping a track of what you look at online. This makes it incredibly easy for them to spot dumbasses that use Google / Bing to learn black hat hacking or even making DIY explosives.

If what they say is correct, then PRISM (an American organisation, afaik) is only keeping track of what 'foreigners' do on websites of companies that originate in the US. Now this is a bit strange, I agree, they should keep track of what residents of their own country are up to and leave it up to the governments of other countries to decide whether or not to compromise the online privacy of its residents.

11 years ago
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they should keep track of what residents of their own country are up to

Not sure if serious

11 years ago
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I think s/he is.

11 years ago
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What exactly makes you think I was not serious? What do you find so unbelievable? Enlighten me... I honestly don't understand why the US government needs to see what people in the UK browse online rather than US residents?

11 years ago
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Because the whole point of the system (according to the US government) was to spy on foreigners? Because it's illegal for the US to spy on it's own citizens? Because it's a violation of basic human rights?

11 years ago
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If anything it should be illegal for them to spy on foreigners. So according to the US government foreigners don't deserve human rights... or they are not human?

11 years ago
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I never said I disagreed with you on this point, so I'm not sure why you're trying to argue it with me.

11 years ago
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Well, the "not sure if serious" comment made it seem that you did disagree with me, since all of my comments essentially had the same point.

11 years ago
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The part I disagreed specifically about was the US spying on US citizens. I didn't pass any judgement on US spying on foreign citizens.

11 years ago
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I probably could've made it clearer that I don't support spying of any kind. I was just suggesting that if the government spies on anyone, it should probably be within their own territory.

11 years ago
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Ah, my mistake then. From your posts, it seemed like you supported spying, but I guess I interpreted them incorrectly.

11 years ago
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Likewise. I thought s/he was saying it was okay for a government to spy on its own citizens.

11 years ago
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https://duckduckgo.com/ is a good search engine that doesn't keep any data afaik.

for maps, just look into open-source software I guess..

11 years ago
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You are awesome. Thank you. Wish there were rep on this forum.

11 years ago
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If you look closely I also suggested that, as a first post. You're welcome.

11 years ago
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Thanks, y'all. Appreciate the additional resources as well.

I figured I'd be called out as anything from "someone with something to hide" to an "idiot" to "terrorist" both in jest and in earnest. No biggie. Just trying to exercise my right to privacy, not trying to hide anything.

I was trained in a field that is protected by the Bill of Rights, and I take it seriously. I want to live and buy by my conscious as much as possible (not always easy to do) and I am disappointed in the companies on the PRISM list as well as the DoJ of late. Will let my wallet do the talking as much as I am able to.

Again, I appreciate the earnest advice from those that understand my position.

11 years ago
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Wow. You're right. I see now that AOL was a later addition to the PRISM list. Ty for the heads up. Will have to do some searching...

11 years ago
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Don't worrie about some PRISM... while there's such thing:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON

11 years ago
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What are you trying to hide? Are you a terrorist??? We found a terrorist!!!

11 years ago
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For more privacy you might want to look into VPNs :)

11 years ago
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11 years ago
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+

11 years ago
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Patriot sighted.

11 years ago
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11 years ago
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While PRISM is wrong you shouldn't be worried unless you've got something to hide.

11 years ago
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Thats fucking retarded.

11 years ago
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Agreed.

11 years ago
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The simple fact is that the government has no business butting into people's private lives like this. That's what warrants are supposed to be for. If they suspect something, they should have to follow the damned rules and get approval before prying into people's lives. That's why the US has a constitution. Their dream of "total information control" is what they're trying to achieve. And when they have that power, you might wish you had objected when it was still possible.

What you, and people like you, don't understand is that by implementing and utilizing this sort of massive data mining, they're building behavior patterns and predictive algorithms. It's not about "finding terrorists". It's about creating and perfecting the process of observing, tracking, collating, and storing every bit of information EVER. Whether this will be used to "stop terrorism" or control the population is anyone's guess. I don't really have high hopes for the it being used beneficially because that's not how any government in the history of ever has worked. If you've never read about the CIA and Project MK ULTRA, you should probably give that a look. That was an American agency experimenting on US and Canadian citizens with the approval of the US government. I would never, ever trust the US government to control its own bad impulses, because it never has and never will. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

The government shouldn't be doing this. But they are, and they have been for a while. Human beings have a fundamental right to privacy. Governments are supposed to be here to serve us. Not to spy on us, or torture us, or use extraordinary rendition on us. Terrorists will most likely always find a way around whatever the government implements and regular citizens will be the only ones affected by this non-stop extravaganza of privacy invasion. And when the program isn't really successful, do you think they'll admit that? Or will Joe Blow on the street suddenly become a terrorist because they need a scapegoat?

11 years ago
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When you'll get fired from work for searching porn in your home you'll know whom to thank.

11 years ago
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you know so little :-)

11 years ago
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Well please be helpful and enlighten me. Otherwise, just trolling.

If you have good advice, I'm first in line to admit I am constantly learning and am ignorant to many, many things.

But calling me ignorant and teaching me is honorable. Calling me ignorant and failing to teach me is dishonorable.

11 years ago
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the bottom line is: you'll never know for sure, who listens to what, let it be your queries or else. just try and get used to it and hope that you don't become a person of interest, so that way they'll probably leave your stuff alone

11 years ago
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No thanks. I don't plan on "getting used to" a violation of rights at any time in the near future.

But if you do truly think I know so little (I'm very well-versed in three things, FWIW. Journalism, Politics, and Automotive - those have been involved in my profession(s) my whole life and I know them all fairly well), then, again, I'm all ears on what you know that would be helpful.

11 years ago
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best of luck to you then

11 years ago
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Um, you do know that PRISM is just the latest in a series of ongoing data gathering systems and that it doesn't really matter what you do, they're still getting the info one way or another - there is NO browser, search engine, or anything else that will ensure your privacy completely. They've been doing this for decades in one capacity or another, it is just that it went public this time - and while past systems have also gone public, none got so much attention because we didn't have Obama in office; with him, everyone wants to blame him directly for any little thing that they see wrong with the government, regardless of whether the issue started before he took office or not - such as this little gem...

11 years ago
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What this guy said. This is massive amounts of data-mining mostly, there is very little you can do to protect yourself from it. And the government has been doing this for a decade at least, and we've known about it in general, the only reason its news now is because someone who worked on it came right out and said it.

Even if you are doing something flagrantly illegal, PRISM isn't what you have to worry about (and I'm not condoning anything illegal). But if you feel that it is wrong, and you probably should, your best defense should be to join with others and try and convince our legislative bodies to get off their collective asses and do something about it. Unfortunately this can't happen because nobody knows shit thanks to our partisan news media, so hearding cats would probably be easier.

tl;dr - Become a cat herder.

11 years ago
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Yes, it is almost as if they don't believe the internet is almost single handedly controlled by the U.S. government, meaning they can simply use a different search provider to bypass the NSA - but unfortunately ICANN has to get permission from the U.S. govt. to make changes to the root zone file... Other countries, especially France, don't like that the U.S. holds so much power over the internet, but whatcha gonna do...? Also, the NSA, CIA, and others have been involved in wiretapping U.S. citizens since before the the internet became a public use tool, the Patriot Act (pre-Obama) only expanded on the "legal" powers they already had and were already executing and continue to execute - without a court order in quite a few cases. In other words, it was a salve for a panicked Congress and easily duped U.S. citizens following 9/11...

11 years ago
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Search providers have a choice (as of now) on whether they willingly and voluntarily comply with government programs. I'm not saying that a subpoena isn't going to call in info from upstanding businesses as well, but they aren't complying so easily.

And yes, you are completely correct.

But I have two choices:

  1. Do nothing and say nothing. Pretend I have no power and be lazy in my news gathering and actions.
  2. Do something and show (even if symbolically) that I don't appreciate it.

It's very easy to downplay and put down folks that take personal action on these matters, but it's not particularly helpful, profound, constructive, or in anyway moving toward a solution.

I can watch a man get murdered in the street and watch him bleed out. "Gonna die anyway," I could say. Or I could try and help him. I will always choose the latter.

11 years ago
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I think part of my point was missed - regardless of whether or not search providers willingly help, the govt. can still get the data with or without their knowledge or compliance; when you ultimately own the pipes, you can see and control (if you so choose) what goes through them.

Also, I wasn't attempting to downplay anything or put down anyone on this thread - it is a simple fact that most people actually prefer to NOT know about ANY of this, which is partly why it is so hard to get anything done in this country - people prefer to stick their heads in the sand or proclaim, "Not my government!"

My post was purely informational - I in fact disagree with the entire premise of the programs - past, present, & future - for the simple reason that any such system will be abused, something that has been proven time and time again.

11 years ago
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My best defense is multifold. One of those things is to notify my reps of my displeasure, which has been done. The other is to do something to note my displeasure with willing participants in a program I'm aware of, which is what I'm trying to do now.

The reason we know about it, FWIW, is two-fold. It's because of some whistleblowers, and because of the freedom of press, of which I am a former member and still intimately involved to the working of.

I do appreciate your direction, as it's good for everyone to know. However, I do actually have a personal plan here, contrary to folks here who appear to revel in my apparent ignorance.

And finally, we do have partisan news media, but it isn't hard to find non-partisan news media, either. And THAT is we the people being lazy about our news sources. It's very easy to blame the media, but it's also lazy and a cop out.

11 years ago
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I just noticed that all 3 people in this thread who defended PRISM are from the UK. Coincidence?

Edit: changed support to defend

11 years ago
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Well people from UK are used to be recorded all the time :)
Sh!tload of cameras EVERYWHERE xD

11 years ago
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I'm not supporting it; i'm just saying if you're getting mega worried you've got something to hide.

11 years ago
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That's not true. It's about making a point. I think that the NSA and PRISM crossed a line there. They're invading my privacy without my knowledge and consent. I have nothing to hide from the american government, hell I would even give them access to all my stuff IF THEY ASKED me. But doing everything in secret without letting anyone know what you're up to, makes me think that america has something to hide.

For example if someone takes your pen without asking you get mad, but if they would have asked you for it then you would have given them the pen out of free will. It's about "having no control" over the situation. Currently the americans can gather as much information about you as they want and do with that information what they want.
So for example they see you visiting a lot of anti-government websites and the conclusion is that you ARE Anti-Government. But what they didn't know was that you just wanted to see for yourself why people are against the government, even if you're pro-government. The data they collect will be interpreted as THEY WISH without asking for your opinion.

11 years ago
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Americans knew about the Patriot Act in the last twelve years, but now the media blew words like Microsoft and Facebook, and everyone is acting like they are surprised. Come on, what were they thinking?

11 years ago
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We get free tea in exchange for our information.

11 years ago
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lol.

11 years ago
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https://duckduckgo.com/ is pretty good. You should also use PGP encryption for email and Tor, https://www.torproject.org/, to hide your IP address.

11 years ago
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Don't you think it will be suspicious if you go undeir their radar suddenly? Don't forget your tinfoil hat.

11 years ago
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:)

Again, I'm not thinking they're after me personally. I'm thinking I'd like to affect change in a policy.

There's a reason all the company CEOs came out vehemently denying involvement.

Political pressure from both constituents and donors does have an effect on policy.

11 years ago
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Don't forget your tinfoil hat.

Have you been living under a rock? It's been outed as the truth already.

11 years ago
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NSA has a had a backdoor in all Windows OS since after Windows 95, so good luck with that......

Source

11 years ago
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xD

11 years ago
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"Computer security specialists have been aware for two years that unusual features are contained inside a standard Windows software "driver" used for security and encryption functions. The driver, called ADVAPI.DLL, enables and controls a range of security functions. If you use Windows, you will find it in the C:\Windows\system directory of your computer."

11 years ago
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Wow. Thanks for the share. Have to look into that more thoroughly.

11 years ago
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Then there's this more recent report.

Here

I guess it depends on whether you believe them...

11 years ago
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https://www.startpage.com/

it's google search, without tracking/sending your info.

11 years ago
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Closed 11 years ago by EephusSwift.