After reaching limit in sales I remember filling that form about "if you sell items for x amount of money we can/will..." and I'd like to ask if you remember what was written there? I'm a citizen of Poland and I'd like to know how much $ I can earn per year without worrying I'd have to pay some tax or something. If someone can enlighten me I'd appreciate it.

11 years ago*

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I think that only applies to US citizens.

Not sure of the exact details why , but it's probably all Obama's fault.

11 years ago
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Thanks Obama >:(

11 years ago
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as he said, im from Poland too, u dont need to worry about taxes, as you can read there it only applies to US. Poland is free!! :)

11 years ago
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No, the W9 is only applicable to those outside the US. The income is still technically taxable throughout the rest of the world.

11 years ago
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It's no bad thing. Personally I'd absolutely welcome any decision to treat this as a taxable activity (and therefore, in the case of a loss, a valid deduction against my annual taxable income)

I'm not familiar with US tax law, but here in NZ, a user's paltry trading income could be offset against depreciation and sundry repairs/minor upgrades on computer(s) and associated furniture, a heat and light apportionment, an apportionment of monthly internet expenses, and probably a raft of other expenses that I can't think of right now.

The result would, in all but a minute number of cases, be a belting loss, and for me, it would mean a nice juicy reduction to my annual tax liability.

Bring it on.

11 years ago
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It wouldn't be useful at all in the US. IRS doesn't allow the deduction of personal expenses for tax purposes and while you might be able to classify steam market trading as a "hobby", hobby losses can only be deducted to the extent of hobby income, which is also only classified as a misc. itemized deduction and thus subject to a 2% floor limitation as well as general phase out for high income individuals. It's also all moot if your itemized deductions aren't greater than your standard deduction in the first place as well.

You might be able to deduct more if you manage to convince the IRS your trading should be classified as a business but considering the general rule of thumb is that you need to show a profit for 3 out of the last 5 consecutive years, I imagine that standard would be tough to pass. Frankly, I'm surprised NZ tax code lets you get away with that, it's quite open to easy savings.

11 years ago
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It's not a personal expense if it's incurred in the course of business (in my country, at least). If you are classifying Steam trading as a taxable venture (and therefore, a business), then at the very least, a proportion of your computer expenses, electricity, and even rent/interest on your mortgage on a pro rata basis, in respect of the area of your house which is dedicted to the "business" of Steam trading becomes an allowable deduction against any "profits" from said trading.

If you are being taxed on the profits, it would be wholly unreasonable not to be able to reclaim the expenses incurred in the creation of these profits. As far as things go in New Zealand, if you're not running a business venture, there is no tax implication. There is no provision whatsoever for "hobby" income, as you describe it.

The fact is that you wouldn't get away with what you are proposing in New Zealand. There is no way the NZ IRD would even consider viewing Steam trading as a legitimate business operation, not least because it isn't a profitable business when you consider the assets and expenses which you could attribute to the operations under current NZ tax law. Also, there is no money - simply an internal credit, redeemable only within the closed system of the Steam Store. If allowed, just about everyone would make a loss, and offset it against their genuine business income! The Revenue would laugh you out of court. It's a hobby, and a hobby is neither a business, nor taxable in this country :)

While it's true that NZ does have fairly lax tax laws compared to most other developed countries, with particularly glaring loopholes in the capital gains taxation system (ie there is none!), if what you say is correct, I think it's entirely unreasonable to tax people for what, in most people's cases, is very minor income which (barring Paypal shenanigans for which there is no audit trail within Steam anyway) is locked into the Steam system. Furthermore, disregarding the expenses incurred in making the "profit" such as the games purchased in order to acquire trading cards, the computer hardware and other expenses required to actually carry out the "taxable" activity, and the other costs of this venture seems massively unfair.

The obvious view is that Steam trading is simply means of acquiring credits in a trumped up discount system, allowing users to accumulate a virtual balance, which is then redeemed against in-store items. If the money leaves the system via Paypal, etc, that's another issue, but it's utterly untrackable within the Steam system, and non-existent in terms of the figures which could find their way to the IRD.

Still, I guess the US needs every cent it can lay its hands on these days, so I guess I shouldn't be too shocked that they are leaving no stone unturned in their drive to balance the books :)

11 years ago
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Its to do with taxes, Obama has nothing to do with it. Unless you think he invented taxes.

11 years ago
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Could be a troll/meme, or could legitimately believe its Obama's fault...

11 years ago
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A not B.

11 years ago
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That was Al Gore. After he invented the internet...

11 years ago
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He invented taxes too? GODDAMMIT OBAMA! What next, always-online DRM?

11 years ago
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If you make "income" on the market, regardless of where you live, these are taxable.
Income however is considered different in many countries and to sell something you "own" in Europe is rarely taxable unless you need to pay capital gains on it. Best to ask an accountant in Poland though.

11 years ago
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BS, stop spreading rummors (only US have that kind of crap)

11 years ago
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Tax agencies care about collecting taxes more than about what the law is currently saying. Government not sure if Bitcoins are real money yet? You can bet the tax agency is already thinking about how to value it as property for taxation. If you were making significant amounts on the Steam Market, whatever country you're in, you better believe they'd look into that. Seriously, tax agencies don't even care if you're breaking the law -- just if you're making money doing it. No joke.

11 years ago
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well im literally in the most gruesome european country, and that doesnt apply, fortunally

11 years ago
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The thing about the steam market is that your cost basis for most objects will mostly likely be 0 unless you're flipping it from someone else (cards, tf2 items, etc drop for "free") thus technically you'll almost always be subject to a tax on the sale, since you will always have a gain.

11 years ago
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The limit before you get hassled is 200 listings per year, the value is not important. And yes, it applies to non-U.S. citizens too, except that you have to fill out a different form (to prove you're not a U.S. citizen). FAQ over here. How you are taxed in your own country for market transactions isn't up to Valve, and they can't provide you with details on that. You'll need to take it up with the Polish equivalent of the IRS. I'd expect market transactions to be taxable in nearly all countries in principle, since you are exchanging things of value, but unless you're making a serious career of it, it should hardly matter.

11 years ago
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thats BS there isnt any rules on digital items yet

11 years ago
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11 years ago
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ok, still im in the EU and im not a business therefore No vat or shanenigans like that

11 years ago
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I just read the FAQ. Thanks. Makes sense and seems I have nothing to worry about lol. Just wanted to make sure.

11 years ago
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im locked out from steam market for no reason, tomorow ill re-open the dammed steamsupport ticket again, their last BS excuse is running out

11 years ago
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US cię dojedzie, już ktoś o to zadba! Chuck Norris wybacza, urząd skarbowy nigdy.

11 years ago
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Closed 11 years ago by HustlaOG.