The sad thing about that is that now it's look like a chain and we don't know what will happen next.
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The past few years were particularly bad with all the Moslem terrorism.
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If the photo should support your statement, I have to say that at least one of those events didn't have a religious background.
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Yeah, those years were so "bad" that this list must use incidents such as a man killing a woman he had a relationship with and we are supposed to consider this "terrorism".
If the man had been white, it would naturally be a relationship crime only.
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yeah, Muslim terrorists have just about caught up with White Isis
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One day after 9/11 happened. Can't have that skew their numbers. What about the far-left extremists? At least 50 got added from that.
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True, that one is disproportionate. Of course, if we go back a few years before that, we could include Timothy McVeigh (Oklahoma City)?
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And just a few more years back, Ruby Ridge and Waco. And no, I am not a white supremacist, it just bothers when law enforcement and governments get as trigger happy as the people that they are trying to control.
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The sad thing is it happens almost daily in southern countries but our news just dont care... there is already a long chain, but we are missing alot informations because it's not in western areas...
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I'm speechless and shocked.
First the New Zealand shooting and now this. :(
Will the madness ever stop?
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I wonder why things like this happens all over the world but not in Poland.
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Yeah there are reasons for that, but we don't want to draw any quick conclusions here.
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I was always thinking why not The Netherlands yet, trust me crazies everywhere, in that it can always happen anytime, anyplace.
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From 1966 to 1985 still have many bad people kill other people in Poland, but yes then from 1986 until 2019 never happen much bad , so if there is a reason about this i think you must to check what is happen about Govern\Culture\School start from 1986 to 2019 and you find reason why they can make people stop do bad this ^_^
1) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_serial_killers_by_country
2) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Poland_(1989%E2%80%93present)
Btw
i think if military have power in country and good law,and they work well,if have someone "crazy" just people make denunce to police or military then they go to him,take him,and put him in crazy people place , problem finish.
if viceversa govern is corrupt by politicians that only think for themself and full their stomash with food and not care nothing about security law or military,so when still have crazy people no one will fix and so then crazy people is free to do all shit they want because no one will jail or put them at crazy people place,and this is why then happen murders etc.
Sadly in my city right now there is the second situation,i see all day many people fight in road (sometime i must go to help homeless people fight too,sometime they die too because i live in quadraro rome and still have many fights in road here between immigrants,homeless people etc.) and there is a lot of people psycho or mental sick here i go help many time in road and i very sad always see this, they are very dangerous too , more than 30 time i risk my life , its very sad to see all this.
I noticed also that btw DRUGS too make people lose brain easy,this is another dangerous thing that has nothing to do with metal problem but is dangerous too.
Another thing to say is there is also Materials\Resources that if is used for BUILD Homes\Factory\Buildings etc. can make people die for cancer,tumors or mental , and most time people that work in this places is people that work for protect theyr nation\country and that work for citizen of their country,but sadly then they die because governs not fucking care and not control\check with what material building is done.
My dad has work for protect some things in italy and him save many homeless people too,then him die because fucking eternit tumor many that is in some buildings because him go save people and military from heartquake or accidents and like this ,i very sad this,very very sad this,i think this is wrong governs must to protect people that save other people (police,military,veterinary,doctors,ambulance mans etc),and not vice versa make them die .
BTW right now the statistics give reason to zarddin , so in this moment if someone want to avoid this things (by see %) for sure go at poland is a good reason,then yes you is right too by say can happen everywhere anyplace btw,this things can't prevent people crazy can be everywhere , and best thing to do with this people is avoid\ignore them , because if you fight them with words\body etc. is not safety for your life and health , because they are people also if you show FACT to them (PROOF paper,video images etc.) they will NOT listen you,they not accept truth they live with lies in their brain and also if u show them truth they continue to lie reply you back bad to you and threat you ecc. so best thing to do people like that is ignore not reply them,not fight them ecc..
Also most of time this people is happy to make other people sad or bad mood and they like to use unlucky events of people for threat them,for example if you just lose an animal or accident happen to you injury legs then they say "hahaha your dog die" "hahaha your legs not work" and things like this , and if you reply to them "fuck off you" or maybe punch them in face they HAPPY because they only want your time\actions they is satisfy by this.
So best thing to do with people bad like this is to ignore,avoid,not reply ecc.
Instead is help a lot use time of your life with people GOOD that make you laugh\happy and want good to you,especially mom,dad,brother,family etc. help them or use our time to produce positive contents , create things , this will make most of time bad people go away and feel down because they very hate this,they first try to disturb then if they see you continue to create things they feel down and go away try find other people less strong than you that they can make feel sad or bad mood easy.
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Because you have no polarization of your population. Which is how things should be in an ideal world.
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You can't also buy guns here.
You have to be in army or police to get a gun. Or be in security with special permission to get a gun.
As a civilian to get a gun you have to pass psychological tests and have good standing with the police and good reputation and you can only have it in your home but not carry it with you outside other than going to shooting range and back and even than it has to be hidden in a bag.
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Same here, but whoever did it had a gun so that's saying nothing, so that's not always saying something, there is a black market.
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I think his military background and being part of IS made it easy for him to get a gun.
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Why would that be? I know people that have (had) guns, but that has nothing to do with them being military or part of IS. More with their shady business etc.
Please stop the IS and Chechnya narrative until there's more known about it and not just one businessman's word about it.
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This is not true.
You can make a civilian license and buy short pistol (like glock etc.).
Is possible in different way.
Limit is set to automatic weapon (AK47 etc.).
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Well it is still hard to make a civilian license is it not?
Like I know only 1 guy that have it in my whole work place.
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OK thanks. I was sure you need psychological tests and go to police also to have them agree.
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PL: istnieją licencje sportowe, myśliwskie, kolekcjonerskie - i te jest najprościej pozyskać.
Nie piszę o licencjach na broń do obrony osobistej itp.
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A spoko. Dzięki za info. Mój kontakt z bronią palną zakończył się po odbyciu obowiązkowej służby wojskowej i osobiście jednak wolę broń białą od palnej. Mi o tą licencję do obrony osobistej chodziło wcześniej. Zapomniałem całkowicie o sportowej i myśliwskiej i kolekcjonerskich.
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Do ochrony jest ciężko wyrobić - ale kolekcjonerską dosyć łatwo - badana, egzamin i masz. Różnica jest w zasadzie taka, iż nie można jej przenosić załadowanej (z amunicją). Ale strzelać z niej na strzelnicach jak najbardziej.
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Dzięki za informacje na ten temat. Zawsze dobrze wiedzieć trochę więcej.
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Psychos don't need gun. They can just as well get in a car and drive through a crowd and kill 50 to 100 people easy.
Guns are just part of the problem but they're not all the problem.
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It's nowhere near as easy to conduct a massacre with a car as it is with guns. The Australian guy didn't travel to New Zealand to shoot up mosques because there are no Muslims in Australia.
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I wasn't saying guns are not dangerous. I'm all for gun control.
I just mean that psychos don't need guns. They make mass killing easier. But the idea that a society without guns is a safe society is an illusion. Safer from kids blowing their brains out by accident, yes. Safer from depressed teenagers going on a rampage at school, yes.
But safe from psychopaths, no.
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Japan's society is unique and exceptional in many ways and there is little to none crime on the streets.
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No, ive also heard that. Among the lowest in the world. Also a non-polarized society. Ideal in my point of view.
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Unfortunately, this is not true :/. If you are looking for something more recent you have this and this.
Unfortunately, these type of folks live everywhere :/.
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I never said Japan was terrorism-free, just that they don't see many attacks. Compared to Europe or the Middle-East they get next to nothing. I hadn't heard of those 2channel attacks though, spooky stuff but lucky two of them were stopped.
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Well, Japan is a single country, Europe is a continent. Netherlands has been quite quiet too so far.
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Japan does have an extremely high suicide rate though.
I'm not being flippant, just making a point that perhaps culturally, the feelings that usually lead to attacks in other countries, are targeted inward and not outward to others.
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Apparently, the lockdown of Utrecht (city) is lifted. I just got a NL-Alert (Text message) that says:
After the shooting incident this morning on "24 Oktoberplein", no further incidents have occured. The advise to stay indoors is lifted. The possible perpetrator has not been arrested yet, so stay alert and call 112 in suspicious situations. Additional information: See twitter.com/GemeenteUtrecht
Translation by myself. Original text in Dutch:
NL-Alert 18-03-2019 16:38
Na het schietincident vanochtend op het 24 oktoberplein, hebben zich geen verdere incidenten voorgedaan. Het advies om binnen te blijven is opgeheven. De mogelijke dader is nog niet aangehouden. Blijf daarom alert en bel 112 bij verdachte omstandigheden. Aanvullende informatie: Zie twitter.com/GemeenteUtrecht
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Added thanks, and yeah my niece also just got home.
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Info about the terrorist and murderer:
Gokman Tanis, 37 years of age, born in Turkey, fought in Chechnya and have joined the IS.
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Gökmen Tanis is the right name, police corrected the name they gave.
Whether it's a terrorist attack (motive) is still unclear, there are leads it might have been a targeted shooting.
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We will see. He was already punished for joining IS.
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Turkish BBC so far.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-47615231
A local businessman told BBC Turkish that the suspect had previously fought in Russia's republic of Chechnya.
Jihadist groups, including those aligned with the Islamic State (IS) group, have long operated in the region.
"He was arrested because of his connections with [IS] but released later," the businessman told the BBC.
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Thanks for the link.
Edit: Would fit the stereotypical jihadi as people who have known him stated on tv he used to be on crack etc. Most jihadis I've heard of that went to fight for the islamic state used to be criminals, thinking it's an easy redemption to fight for 'the cause'.
Still quite skeptical though as also apparently family in Turkey has said it's a relational shooting.
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He went to fight in Chechnya, where the élite forces of IS were from. And very soon after the New Zealand terrorist attack. Placing my bets on terrorism
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Also very soon after he had to appear in court for a rape charge.
Edit: so far the only proof he's been to Chechnya to fight for IS is one local businessman. While people from the neighbourhood and his family in Turkey point towards 'family problems'.
Sure it CAN be a terrorist motive, but let's not go ahead and assume it is.
You're stating it like it's a given fact, and not just one of the many rumours at the moment.
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I thought the information about Chechnya was a fact. Then it's not so clear, yet. You are right. Let's wait and see.
Still, for me so soon after the NZ attack, it may be a clear reason (for him).
Edit: Apparently the information that it was a relational shooting came not from the parents, that have been 11 years since the last talked to him, but some "family members"
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Because all I know is he has been to court for the following:
- breaking into a truck in February 2012
- attempted murder/killing in December 2013 for firing a firearm at a building
- shoplifting in May 2014
- spitting at and threatening an officer in October 2014
- driving under influence in November 2014
- destroyed a window and trashed the police cell subsequently in October 2015
- rape in July 2017, been to court for that two weeks ago and next court date is July
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Well that is a long list of things you would get your ass kicked and threw in jail for a few years in my country. And the last one means going to prison and dieing there as other inmates will make you kill yourself.
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Can people just chill out for 5 minutes? I'd like the world to go a week without a senseless, human-made tragedy.
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These attacks are an issue with no clear solution. Some say it's a national thing, others say it's a mental problem thing, others say it's an EU thing, others say it's due to terror organizations and so on and so forth.
It frustrates the hell out of me that there really isn't anything that we can aim our focus towards here. Say any reason he might've done it and you will have other things to point at as being possible reasons.
It's easy for people to take this and clutch to their agenda and say that "this is why it happens", but it's just being disingenuous. You don't have the answer, so stop pretending you do. You have ideas at best. At worst, you parrot the opinion of someone on your side (usually politically). All you're doing when you start spouting your idiocy is cause confusion and anger. Unless you're a wanna-be domestic terrorist, then this shouldn't be something to strive for. Let's work together and figure this out. Give your opinions, but preface them as such. Give reasons and explain yourself more than you maybe would have otherwise. Make sure your message is clear and understandable while also not being elitist and hateful.
Pull your shit together and start dealing with this issue like someone with the maturity of an adult, not a pouty teenager.
Humanity's inability to have normal discourse without pathetic agendas is the reason these people lost their lives today. We've had years to make strides towards prevention of these tragedies and while some progress has been made, it's still small enough that you can barely tell the difference between the year 2015 and 2019. If you have the balls to really come in and claim to have an answer and say that it's because of something specific with no reasoning, no explanation, no solution, then all you're doing is feeding the chaos and working towards the next senseless tragedy.
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Granted that i can't say anything about other countries this country is heavily cutting down on mental health care and whatever this case will come out as, you will start to get people with mental problems doing crazy things more and more.
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Totally could be a cause, yeah. But also, maybe they don't like some political thing in your country (a party, a new law, the government overall, etc.). Maybe they watch ISIS beheading videos and get in contact with a recruiter. Maybe they play a video game and get inspiration. Whatever else.
Mental illness is usually the reason why the cause of the attack even became important enough for them to go through with it.
Normal mentally ill people don't just go out and commit mass shootings. These things don't happen on their own. There are triggers for them and usually there's a shitload of them. Theoretically eliminate ISIS from the equation and you'll keep having these tragedies because there's so much here that can hit a person the wrong way. Doesn't mean we shouldn't fight ISIS or stop trying to stop them.
Just means that we shouldn't make blanket statements that blame a single aspect on everything. Those people only mislead. Those people want these things to happen because it helps their cause. It creates panic and panic can create change.
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As i said, most terror attacks happen due to polarization. It is in many countries rarely done something/enough to prevent this. This in combination with sloppy gun laws and individuals who are considered dangerous not taken enough care of.
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Could be the cause, yeah.
Can't say that about every attack though, can you? Or do you really think that if local politics was completely not an issue somehow (an issue you provide no reason to, no solution to, no reasoning behind why only that, gun laws and mental health are an issue) that then terrorism would stop?
How do you change this? Give reasons. We've had 5 years (being so extremely conservative here) to come up with solutions.
It's easy to keep saying "I think it's a combination of mental health problems, gun laws, extremism, terrorist organizations, bad diets, social issues, financial issues, the weather, local music, culture and demographics", but this is as useful as saying "Thoughts and prayers".
We can all say this one-liner that we say literally every single time. It's time to look at actual solutions.
If you say that it's polarization, then why? What needs to be changed? How can you back your solution up with some actual stats and numbers, if possible? What are the downsides? Are the downsides to that worth the positives you'd get?
Same with every topic.
What you've said is vapid and useless. You've created noise. If someone reads through these comments, then odds are they will also read through yours. What did they gain? They certainly didn't gain a new perspective. They also didn't find a solution. Yet they did waste time and mental energy to reading and processing it. They're now one step closer to losing their attention and quitting this story for good (unless there's a major development, which usually there isn't) and they'll only start looking into this issue again when the next tragedy happens.
I can imagine you mean well. But you should also realize that you're just saying what everyone else is saying. "Guns cause violence. People + politics can equal bad bad bad. Mental health unchecked, tragedy ensue.".
It's like saying "Water causes drowning" after a slew of floods that kill people. You're not adding things here. We know these extremely basic things already.
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Sure, i partly agree with you. What i believe is that people with differences should stay in their respective countries. I dont believe that immigration really solves any problems. It creates problems in the countries dealing with incredible amounts of this. Like the country where i currently live. Cultural clashes and different perspectives on religion are the cause of 90% of terror attacks. I believe also that people shouldnt fight other peoples battles. I dont think that certain countries that do fight in some parts of the world should do that. Hope you understand what i mean. This just creates anger in the countries being targeted. I do believe a "world police" is a terrible terrible concept.
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I hugely appreciate that your tone isn't remotely aggressive or attacking, but nonetheless - respectfully, I couldn't disagree more.
The UK has been a cultural melting pot for many, many generations, and has been enriched enormously in countless ways as a result. I grew up surrounded by christians, muslims, sikhs and pretty much any other creed you could imagine, people from every corner of the world - and it has exclusively been a profound blessing. Honestly, I cannot imagine anything worse than spending your whole life surrounded by a narrow little subset of humanity when the world is such a spectacularly diverse place.
I've also known a wide variety of angry asshats of all creeds and colours, a couple of whom were so full of rage they even literally tried to kill me - although those ones always happened to be white, in my case. And usually remarkably drunk.
When a tiny, tiny pocket of small minded people decide their blind rage should justify violence against anyone who is different from them, isolationism is guaranteed to just make things worse. Every country and every culture of the world has its share of glorious, shining examples of warmth and love, and also an overabundance of angry, vindictive tools. If you have the misfortune of meeting a member of the second group who happens to have a certain skintone or spiritual bagage, it would be an incalculable mistake to imagine their behaviour is a result of their colour or creed.
This is the human race;
Some of them are spectacular,
Some of them are abominable,
Most are somewhere in the middle...
Don't feed the trolls.
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Police said the shooting appeared to be a terrorist incident but, at a press conference on Monday evening, a prosecutor said it could have been motivated by "family reasons".
Mr Tanis was known to Dutch police, the prosecutor added.
A local businessman told BBC Turkish that Gokmen Tanis had previously fought in Russia's republic of Chechnya.
"He was arrested because of his connections with [IS] but released later," the businessman told the BBC.
There are so many stuff wrong with all of the above, but most importantly, how do you release a person after knowing that he has ties with IS..?
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You're assuming too much. Firstly, this isn't Turkish authorities who told this, but one guy. Secondly, if the first part is true to begin with, there's a massive difference between being arrested for ties and actually having ties to IS. Turkey has arrested (and also released) a lot of people for suspected ties to IS over the years.
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Who's talking about Turkish authorities? and it's not just the "businessman":
Mr Tanis was known to Dutch police, the prosecutor added.
I don't think that you just release people like that, and if you did, you should keep a close eye on them.
It's like seeing a gas leak, and then wondering why there was an explosion.
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He was known for crime.
Fairly sure the IS thing's a fake.
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'' a close eye on them'' - no, you are breaking his laws...
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Laws.. well NZ is now rethinking its gun laws after what happened.
and terrorist watchlists aren't exactly something unheard of, but that claim could be fake as Hassat said.
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Well, that's the thing, a 'normal' criminal doesn't get put on a terrorism watchlist, obviously.
As I mentioned earlier, the one thing we know for sure is he was known to police for criminal activities.
Shoplifting and burglary in 2018 can be added to that list, on a side note.
Being known to Dutch Police and a guy saying he was arrested by Turkish authorities for ties to IS are two separate things. It seems you assumed he is known to Dutch police for ties to IS. Why I said, you assume too much. Please be a little critical when given information.
I won't say he didn't have a terrorist motive, but with the given information we also cannot say for sure he did.
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I might've assumed that he was arrested by the Dutch police for having ties with IS, but I didn't find sources which say that he was arrested by the Turkish police for having ties with IS, so are you also assuming that or do you have a source?
but other than that I don't see many assumptions in what I said, what are you on about with me "assuming too much" and needing to be more "critical"?
You're also assuming that the Turkish government cares about stopping terrorism in countries other than Turkey which is something pretty funny to assume.
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No point in talking if you haven't read through the thread. And you're assuming way too much about me now. Nowhere have I stated how I think about the Turkish policy, just what people react to on the information given
At least my assumption was honest, it seems...
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Lol yeah you got your 'gotcha' moment for the day I guess.
The reason why I talked about Turkish government not caring about preventing terrorism is the line that says that he was arrested previously for ties with IS I just read the comment that said that "BBC Turkey published.." but it's the same article that I quoted this from and it has no "BBC Turkey" tag, that's why I was asking for your source and that they released him so that means that he is good..
I find that funny for a lot of reasons that can make this comment a lot longer, but you're already not interested in discussing this matter.
BTW, have they edited that article? because the whole "A wild businessman appeared and said: " part is removed it seems.
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According to the NOS it's his brother that has fought in Chechnya.
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So many psychos making up reasons to hate everyone else...
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This subject always seems to be a touchy subject, so was hesitant to post it, but today in Utrecht a "man" killed 3 and injured 9 people in a tram, and a bomb squad is currently investigating things, he is still on the run.
It's a bit unclear now if there are more people involved, there been more incidents or could have been.
Currently the whole city is in lockdown and people are advised to stay inside, kids even have to stay in school (my niece is currently in one).
[Edit] After the shooting incident this morning on "24 Oktoberplein", no further incidents have occured. The advise to stay indoors is lifted. The possible perpetrator has not been arrested yet, so stay alert and call 112 in suspicious situations. Additional information: See twitter.com/GemeenteUtrecht
[Edit2] Attacker is caught and in police custody.
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