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4 years ago
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Eh, fuck them. I deleted my Battle.net account.

4 years ago
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Profits > Human Rights
IF you're a corporation!
I won't be buying Blizzard games ANYMORE
Also FUCK Actishit yet again

4 years ago
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its not like they have 5 games per yearbastards are well prepered for boycott

4 years ago
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It's a mess. Screw Blizzard for doing it.

I'm not too keen on Blizzard. But remember, if you're saying "i'm not buying/playing Blizzard games anymore", then make sure you've also cancelled your Humble Monthly purchase since it literally has an Activision game in it.

4 years ago
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Oh, good idea, thanks for the reminder. I'm pretty much on autopilot when it comes to HB Monthly subscription.

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Aaand pause :)

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make sure you've also cancelled your Humble Monthly purchase since it literally has an Activision game in it.

No...
All 3 revealed titles are published by Activision titles in it. Not just CoDWWII, the Crash & Spyro remakes as well.

4 years ago
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Ah, sorry, my bad.

4 years ago
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Why would you cancel it for one game when there are multiple games in a bundle?

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Well, Nanabanana already pointed that all 3 games are Activision's, but if hypothetically it was just the single game, then my point stands. You can't complain about a company that deals in luxury goods while still supporting them financially. It's pretty sanctimonious.

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You wouldn't really be supporting them since the games are heavily discounted and most of it goes to charity anyway.

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It's only 10% to charity though...

Basically just proves my point about it being very sanctimonious.

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So because you disagree with one thing means charity should never get anything.

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You can just donate $12 to charity on your own and not give Activision a cent.

4 years ago
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Huh...? I never said so? You can just donate btw. Donate that $1.20 directly. Or instead, be the guy you claim to be, the one who's so interested in the charity that this 10% is such a big deal here. Donate $12 to a charity instead.

A 10% charity fee is nowhere near even a factor in whether you support a company that literally defends a regime that is known to literally harvest people's organs if they disagree with them.

No, but of course. If a someone's forcing you to never donate and only give to charities through Humble Monthlies, then I guess that's it. But even then, if you're in some forcible financial relationship with someone, then perhaps skip donating anyways since you'll be doing more harm than good.

I hope whoever's stolen all of your money and only gives a part of it to you each month to buy a monthly gives you your money back soon.

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Just put 100% to charity and only farm the games for cards, problem solved.

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You can't change the ratios in monthlies, sadly :/

4 years ago
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Good point, more coffee for me. Oh well, just like I quit Blizzard games a year ago because HS was so boring and stale, I have skipped many of the monthlies after they started dumping non-Steam crap in them. Should've just canceled instead of monthly pausing if I wanted to make a point, but the personal greed to collect more random "AAA" games to collect dust in library is still bit too strong even after getting rid of the +1 addiction.

4 years ago
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I didn't know Blizzard is a Chinese company.

4 years ago
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Is this for real?
Blizzard is preventing people from deleting their account?
https://twitter.com/Espsilverfire2/status/1182001007976423424

4 years ago
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Can confirm (via brother and a friend), however you can still delete your account, but they will only do so if you provide photo ID for verification, and if what I stumbled on in google is correct, also 30 days for processing. Which is a dumbfounding move given the whole facial recognition tech controversy in China.

4 years ago
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And now I've read that some people tried this way, only to be rejected by the removal system too.
It seems they do not allow account deletion, no matter how...

Edit: that was before the 30 days for processing, so maybe this works.

4 years ago
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If you really care about the issue hit them "hard" like Slowacki did already. You may think they don't care since they're huge but they do.
I don't own any Blizzard game. I was entering CoD 2 giveaways here but F them. I'm not a huge video game consumer but If I find any title related to them on my account I will delete It.

4 years ago*
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Well I can't say I'm shocked since China is such a big market they even dictate their rules to giants like Disney but I'm inspired by the balls of that dude who used his platform to speak out and stand for what he believed, knowing the risk he was taking.

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sorry for my bad english first. But idk why you guys hate Blizzard for doing this? Why bring political into interview Hearthstone?

4 years ago
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(If English is too difficult for you, or for those looking for a shorter summary, just skip to the second post below.)

Blizzard punished a player with unreasonable severity for a mostly innocuous statement, despite having no valid reason according to their guidelines to do such. Further, they rather impressively misutilized a guideline they did have listed to fit the bill, despite their usage of such (as well as their statements in regards to that usage) logically providing the assertion on their part that pro-Hong-Kong political statements are anti-China and being anti-China is being anti-Blizzard, as attacks against China hurt Blizzard's image.

They then engaged in many other behaviors which are already considered deeply unprofessional among western perspectives, such as attacking inherently unrelated individuals, engaging in pervasive censorship, and refusing to make acknowledgement of the matter. Moreover, there's the fact that their behaviors were completely in line with that of how the Chinese government approaches things- a government that ranks extremely high in their civil rights violations (nevermind being responsible for the civil rights circumstances in Tibet, which ranks 2nd in the world [after Syria] for human right violations), as well as ranking high on many other negative benchmarks..

Fundamentally, they've repeatedly made the clarification that they are operating in step with China. Even without noting the many issues China faces itself, nor noting that Hong Kong's perspectives are actually in line with the perspectives the Chinese populace once had before the government violentally oppressed all opposition, there's the fact that China's current approach goes in direct oppositon to the expectations associated with the UK's handing over of Hong Kong to China, an agreement which doesn't end for another decade.

From Hong Kong's perspective, they've Taiwan, Tibet, etc to look to to see how terrifying being fully under China's control can be. To have such a potential future looming only a decade away, and seeing China already pressuring their nation to fundamentally change their societal structure and rights, it's entirely reasonable for Hong Kong to be protesting so severely.

From a western standpoint, not only do we have to acknowledge how China's influence on Hong Kong goes against both western and typical international standards, but we have to identify with Hong Kong, which has a similar social perspective to western societies. To see that under attack, and to see a US company actively supporting that to levels which far exceed typical western sensibilities, that's going to ensure a negative western response.

In fact, similar circumstances are what led to the US finally joining into WW2, despite initially disassociating themselves with it. The US had first completely avoided the matter, but then started providing passive support (such as providing supplies and assistance in embargoing Japan) to the Allies. After some time, Japan became desperate, and attacked Pearl Harbor, which finally led to the US officially commiting to the war and dedicating active military resources to it.

So, in both situations, the US felt the urge to support like-minded nations, but didn't really feel a strong enough personal connection to actively dedicate themselves to the matter. Once the risk struck home in a very clear way, however, the US- and more importantly, the general opinion of its population- became much more favorable towards outright criticism, with a push towards active involvement.

The details and thereby the scope differ but, the fundamentals are the same. The reaction here [insomuch as it has extended to a rise in broader concerns over Hong Kong] presumably is so strong because suddenly the US is having to acknowledge that risks faced by other governments can also influence them. The reaction gains strength from the fact that the Chinese government never makes any attempt to disguise their authoritarian, expansionistic, rights-ignoring behaviors, and because the Chinese government persistantly feels they have a right to behave as blusteringly and dominatingly as possible on a global stage [which does rather calls the behavior of Trump to mind].

Thus, despite human nature being to detach from such issues when they're not immediately relevant, China keeps pushing such matters in our faces. Add in our ability to identify with Hong Kong to begin with, and the shocking severity of what Hong Kong may be facing, and the general uneasiness that China's unrestrained, aggressive expansion is already causing to begin with, and there's no wonder there's negative sentiments to the matter.

The core of the matter is, of course, that Blizzard acted in a manner which was fundamentally inappropriate to western standards, regardless of specific context. The actual context being what it is, only served to amplify the matter, and Blizzard's continuing poorly handling of the situation (or, if you prefer, "Very Chinese Government-like handling of the matter") is what has allowed this to continue escalating to the point of becoming something which has a life of its own.

Why bring political into interview Hearthstone?

While most games have it in their ToS that political matters should not be brought up at all [Blizzard did not, in fact, have this fairly standard clause in their ToS, which is what made the matter an issue to begin with, even before the severity of punishment was factored in], something which reflects the majority opinion of your own nation and does not express any hostility or discrimination or other negative aspects, generally is not considered as political statements, even within such standard guidelines. It'd be on par with saying "FUCK YEAH, USA" or "Happy new years, fellow people of Finland, may our great nation be a shining beacon within the EU for all the days to come!" or something.

That is, it expresses a pro-national viewpoint, but with no secondary elements involved [ie, the diminishment of other nations or ethnicities]. There's obviously a bit more of a political factor involved in this, so it's not a directly comparable matter, but typically ToS is there to prevent misbehavior and antagonism, not to crack down on freedom of speach or pro-nationalism. Even if the intensity of his statement was much more prominent than usual, it still falls under acceptable behavior.

Blizzard, on the other hand, has, as previously noted, directly identified themselves with China, to the point of emphasizing that point of association. This, along with other elements, means that Blizzard is directly stating that they're in opposition to the people and nation of Hong Kong. Meaning that, instead of taking a poltically neutral stance on the matter, they actually are the ones expressing a strong political opinion and engaging in negative behaviors related to such a perspective.

In short, their punishment of Blitzchun ends up being both hypocritical and a distasteful misuse of a position of power to force an agenda (an agenda which runs contary to not only western sensibilities and well beyond the borders of what westerners typically consider appropriate for a company to get involved in, but which indicates a broader perspective that Blizzard is actively acting as a political agent of China at the expense of other regions.)

As for the "why", it's normal human nature to want to express oneself on such matters, especially when the cirumstances are (as I touched on above) so very stressful and desperatation-inducing. It's pretty easy to excuse someone on their venting frustrations on negative matters directly relevant to themselves, especially when they do so in such a casual and non-offensive manner. It's far less clear why a US company would want to bring Asian politics into their games, or take such a zealous stance on a political issue which does not directly affect them.

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But idk why you guys hate Blizzard for doing this?

So, in summary, there's a lot of factors in play, but the main considerations are as such:
Blizzard not only acted unprofessionally to extremes, but they also:
* Indicated that they associate directly with China (and even identify themselves directly with that nation), to the point of favoring them above all other regions.
* Pushed a political agenda, and did so in a manner which actively disrespected a majority within another sovereign nation.
* Moreover, they did the above for the sake of supporting another nation, one with a political perspective directly contrary to the nation in which the company is based, thus indicating their disdain for a second nation, in favor of the one they're expressing political solidarity with.
* Implied that they were in favor of human rights violations.
* Actively engaged in notable levels of censorship, something which is largely frowned upon by the people of nations with any sort of inherent freedoms.
* Misused power to punish random people, in a manner which was shockingly authoritarian.
* Limited the freedoms of their players to make decisions about their games and accounts
[Which is, I believe, also a direct violation of EU laws, is it not? Certainly, it'd be enough to consider Blizzard as having gone out of their way to offend the people of even more nations.]
* And just generally acted awful and failed to make any sort of acknowledgement or conciliation on the matter to their non-Chinese consumerbase, despite having been fully willing to offer such consideration to the Chinese government just before.

So, rather, it's not about whether or not we hate Blizzard, it's the fact that Blizzard went straight off the deep end in how they approached things, and invited criticism from the start, and then only kept on inviting it.

Keep in mind also that this comes alongside the NBA debacle, where China pressured the entire NBA to cave in to appease them after a single non-meaningful member of the association made a low-key pro-Hong-Kong comment. A debacle within which the attempts at appeasement got so absurd that some members of the NBA apparently made statements actively indicating a support for not only China, but for China's human rights violations. The US population wasn't exactly comfortable with recent Chinese influences (rather, those running contrary to societal norms) on local society to begin with.

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4 years ago
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so all you mean is Blizzard ToS do not specify about political ? cuz no game company wanna involve much about political. And what if blizzard not work with China, will community be raging like this situation ?

4 years ago
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And for those who felt my posts above were too long to read, I offer you this briefer summary:

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This is the only real measurement we can see of how much any of this hurt them.

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true true

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you are right

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An update on the ongoing subject appeared on my feed :
https://twitter.com/Slasher/status/1182409678371934212?s=20

During a collegiate Hearthstone match, the American University team held up a sign saying "Free Hong Kong, Boycott Blizzard". Once they realised, they switched the video feed as to not include the sign. It was then apparently revealed that they had decided to not penalise the American University team, and were in the process of arranging their next match. In reaction to this, AU forfeited their match and the season, saying it was hypocritical for Blizzard to punish Blitzchung but not them.

In other news that I happened upon thanks to my brother, it seems that at current, you can only delete your Blizzard account by giving them 30 days and photo ID. Previously you were able to close accounts through a variety of methods, and were able to pick which one to verify your ownership of the account and your request for closure. Given the Blitzchung thing and the 'facial recognition' stuff happening in China, this change of policy gets a solid "yikes". I thought it may be an isolated incident but I asked in a little discord hangout and then took a glance at google and uh, yeah, this is super recent and may be due to the backlash, and is trying to staunch the amount of users they could be bleeding out? I honestly dunno.

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Doesn't help the image.

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6 months is still far too long for something like that. It would be understandable for cheating or spreading hate or violence in the message. For promoting freedom and human rights, even if against the rules, a warning should be quite enough for the first time.

I was waiting for Trump to tweet about it, but I guess it doesn't involve an US citizen getting ripped off so we have to settle for 2 other politicians, altho nicely from both parties.

https://twitter.com/sgbluebell/status/1182817588147052544

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US university esport team expressed support for Hong Kong too and Blizzard did like nothing happened they just switched the active camera to another one and the team will not be punished in any way. Maybe because theare US citizens?

4 years ago
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The team had even more balls and just forfeited the tournament and all winnings because they didn't get punished, since that was full proof that China rules Blizzard.

4 years ago
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they were because they represent US university and are US citizens. maybe it is the reason and Blizzard could be sued at US court.

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It's actually more about nobody in China watching NA college HS, but everyone watching Asia-Pacific Grandmasters. So they thought it will go under the Chinese radar and don't need to act.

But at least we now know that they will always respect and defend the pride of China. What more can any of us ask?

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4 years ago
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The specific views expressed by blitzchung were NOT a factor in the decision we made. I want to be clear: our relationships in China had no influence on our decision

If you believe this, then I have a bridge to sell you.

4 years ago
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Well it could be kind of true. They were not just a factor, they were the factor and sole reason. China had no influence on the decision because it was made by China, just like China wrote the apology as proven by linguistics analysis. So they are admitting that China has complete control over their actions and they have none.

Also that sounds like a great deal, if your social credit score is just high enough.

4 years ago
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Well, that's just the most insincere, BS-filled response they could have come up with.
(Edit: Forbes touches on the same broad points I make below, with less detail but clearer presentation. Rockpapershotgun also covers the matter, with more detail than Forbes, and with more emphasis on certain points than my post. Alternatives options for those who find my presentation lacking in accessability.)

Here, I've filled in a few of the missing details:

We interview competitors who are at the top of their craft to share how they feel except when we don't like what they feel. We want to experience that moment with them. Hearing their excitement is a powerful way to bring us together with China.

Over the weekend, blitzchung used his segment to make a statement about the situation in Hong Kong—in violation of rules he acknowledged and understood despite the fact that none of our guidelines actually prohibit this action, and this is why we took action.
[..]
If this had been the opposing viewpoint- y'know, despite the fact that an opposing viewpoint would be required to come from other members of the same nation, and would have to directly oppose civil freedoms (as that is the only element clearly being promoted here), which in itself should be a perspective we ourselves refuse to support, given our own pro-freedom mottos and the rights-favoring location from which we're based- delivered in the same divisive (against Chinese authoritarianism) and deliberately low-key way that opposes what China wants
[..]
With regard to the casters, remember their purpose is to keep the event focused on the tournament. This requires them to have psychic abilities in regards to the people they are interviewing, and to absolutely not allow any opposition to China's agendas, even in situations where it is humanly impossible to prevent such actions.

Seriously, that entire post just oozes contempt, insincerity, and a confidence in the lack of intelligence of their fan-base.
That's not to say the framework isn't passable, but their choice of phrasing and the concepts they focus on makes their actual perspectives blatantly clear. Put another way, while maintaining the same core framework I could rewrite several sections with the result of the statement being respectably presented. Those necessary edits can't, however, be put down to mistakes in phrasing, as noone would make that many iffy comments by accident, nor would they hold to such an unapologetic tone throughout, unless their underlying perspective was genuinely insincere.

One of the major issues in this matter is that by opposing pro-Hong-Kong statements (which, as I noted in a post above, isn't inherently offensive, and would be let slide by most any other nationality) is that by making such an opposition, one directly supports China as having full control over Hong Kong's internal affairs and perspectives. Otherwise, such a comment couldn't, by any stretch of the imagination, be considered divisive.

Even if we accept the now-highly-doubtful belief that Blizzard isn't pandering to China, it'd still be absurd for them to claim that this matter isn't directly based in the fact that China is involved. No other nationality would have been punished for such a statement because, again, the statement in and of itself is innocuous. The issue Blizzard has is with the broader associated perspectives relating to Hong Kong and China. And, again, supporting your own nation should never be considered divisive, unless it's done in opposition to another ethnicity or political group. That clearly didn't occur here. Hence, the issue is in inference, that Pro-Hong-Kong means Anti-China. To have that perspective to begin with, means you've already taken a political stand on the matter.

All this before we get to all the elements of hypocrisy on Blizzard's part, and the clear pro-China favoritism.
Honestly, by this point, the best thing Blizzard could do to renew faith would be to get this company president, with his rather distasteful conduct, to step down. 'course, going off the stock listing linked above, this hasn't actually affected Activision stock to any real degree. So maybe they'll just keep trying to sweep it under the carpet.

Again, if Blizzard's guidelines had used more standard ToS phrasing for such matters, and if their response had been much more low-key, it'd be a different story. But what've gotten here is way-over-the-top, entirely unjustifiable, and followed by unreasonable excuses and continued conduct issues. By this point, there's just no reason to have any faith in Blizzard as a company.

Just a reminder that Blizzard's entire justification is that Blitzchan's comments "hurt Blizzard's public image", not that they were disruptive/inappropriate/etc. Even before we pick apart anything else, we have to acknowledge that, from the start, Blizzard has stated that being pro-Hong-Kong is anti-Blizzard. Since they keep refusing to explain such associations, or why their casters should be psychic, or why being pro-Hong Kong is so much worse than being pro-any-other-country, or anything else..

All we've really seen from Blizzard so far is evasion and excuses (and hypocrisy), without any sincerity, apology, or proper justification.

4 years ago*
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And now there's a theory that the entire message was actually written by Blizzard's Chinese branch, based off the formatting and phrasing: https://twitter.com/SGBluebell

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4 years ago
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https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/d3a5xx/blizzard-doesnt-respect-the-human-rights-of-its-customers-major-rights-organization-says

It is hard to overstate how quickly this has gone off the rails for Blizzard. Access Now is a major human rights organization that regularly works with the United Nations, pushes back against authoritarian governments, and protects activists all over the world. It is, simply put, a hugely influential force for good in the battle to protect the human rights of people all over the world.

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I am quite suprpised how many people are willing not to trade freedom of speech and act for https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bread_and_circuses and abandon their favourite entertainment and even spent money.

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The difference is Roman citizens were totally and utterly free.

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Market share > freedoms.

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4 years ago
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But that guy knows nothing of Blizzard or international operations ... wait, he's the one in charge of setting those up in the first place.

4 years ago
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Good guy Mitsubishi stops sponsoring Grandmasters.

Before: https://i.imgur.com/FweRHY4.png
After: https://i.imgur.com/k9lr7VX.png

Not that hard to figure out that sponsoring Blizzard tournaments gets you much less goodwill from gamers than stopping it. Be a part of the problem or the solution.

4 years ago
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Gamers will always support companies doing something like that I think.

4 years ago
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They rejected my request with citizenship id card oO

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The only reason they ask for that is so people trying can be reported to the Chinese government.

4 years ago
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after waiting a week for the dust to settle they went ahead and banned the university team as well.
took them 8 days while the other guy was banned after like 8 minutes.
now they just need to send all the ID data from the account deletion request thing over there and china will be fully satisfied.
i guess?

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