3 days ago*

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No reservations..

3 days ago
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Sigh, how low is enough...Anyways I've barely touched Epic Launcher since they killed Paragon, & even less since they stopped developing Unreal Tournament 4. The only reason its still installed is because I would like to learn Unreal Editor.

3 days ago
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Oh noooooo my dear Paragon ;(((((

I deleted Launcher after they killed Paragon as well, and i leave all mobas together :(

3 days ago
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I feel you. It was my first and last moba

2 days ago
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It wasnt my first moba (actually i am an old DotA 1 veteran :) but it was special... (actually legacy was special) I will always miss that 5 man gideon ultimate, khaimera leap and health regen, grux pulls, old twinblast ultimate, howitzer mine, rampage rock and one of the most special one... muriel ultimate. Damn i really miss it ;(

I am not gonna lie, i will never miss monolith or phase...

2 days ago
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I miss DotA All-Stars. (

I didn't like the direction they took with DOTA 2, but I'm still playing League.

2 days ago
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Well, i never liked LoL :/

Dota 2 was good for me and i have 1200 hours on it but like i said, not anymore :)

2 days ago
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Should try more ones if you arent sick of the genre, i am personaly after playing Heroes of Newerth, the best top down one, but Paragon was realy something special as a 3rd person one, your next best gig would be Smite now i suppose.

2 days ago
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Yeah that made no sense. Clearly they would have made more money if they developed both Paragon and Fortnite instead of just focusing on one. I only played the beta of Paragon but it was pretty fun.

18 hours ago
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Dont forget snatching Phoenix Point and most likely snatching Borderlands 3 soon too which will be announced this month.

3 days ago
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Damn bribers. I don't know how sounds a person who bribes everyone on it's way in English, but Epics are crooks anyway.

3 days ago
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When you slip someone money to do something illegal for you, that's a bribe.

When you offer someone a bigger portion of each sale to use your storefront, that's a business deal.

I understand your frustration, but if I offered to give you 18% more money for the same thing you're already doing, wouldn't you take it? If another company came along and offered to pay you 18% more for the same job you're doing now, wouldn't you switch jobs?

3 days ago
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Is business deal includes rejection of collaboration with all other companies? Is every company doing so in US?

2 days ago
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Business deals include what they include. Many sign-up with corps include a specific part about you're not looking for employment at their business partners X months after you cease to be their employer. It's not a US only thing, it's not a corporations only thing, it's a thing that is agreed on by both signing parties and is not against the corresponding law.

2 days ago
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Sounds reasonable, but this guy also thought it was a simple business deal without something criminal like Epic
https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/people/martin-shkreli

2 days ago
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one-sided business decision =/= business deal

2 days ago
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IIRC Activision sued the CoD devs when they moved to EA.

2 days ago
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Not every company, certainly, but exclusivity isn't that unusual. I'm assuming you're Russian since you say you love borscht. They don't have any exclusivity deals in Russia? I'm guessing when the Olympics are aired on TV, they're aired on just one station rather than every station, right?

1 day ago
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Nope, it's really weird for me and anti-capitalistic here to ban selling through other vendors to cut your profits. Maybe for US or EU it's a common deal to limit sales of something unique from 3rd parties to lure some audience, but from the consumer's point of view it's an anticonsumer thing.

1 day ago
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That's the thing, though, you're not cutting your profits. One store offers you 70% of every sale, another store offers you 88% of every sale. It's in your best interest to go with the store that offers you 18% more from every sale.

And if that store is willing to guarantee a set amount of copies sold, in order to earn your business and patronage, even better.

Exclusives have been a thing for as long as there have been consoles. We had NES exclusives and SNES exclusives and Genesis / Mega Drive exclusives, and PSX, Dreamcast, PS2, Xbox, X360, PS3, PS4, XB1 exclusives. On the PC side we've had Steam and Origin and Uplay and Rockstar and Bethesda and Windows Store exclusives.

People may not remember, but Steam was the first to have exclusives, and that's how Steam got started and got off the ground - exclusive games. Lots of people only got Steam for Counter Strike or Half-life 2 or DOTA - not because they wanted to, but because the only way to play the games was to get Steam.

The exclusivity that you're talking about is not like console exclusivity where you can only play the game if you have the console it's exclusive to - everyone on PC can get a game from Epic just as everyone on PC can get a game from Steam. You may chose not to, but that's you imposing a restriction on yourself. It's not a case of having to first buy hardware before you can play a game as it is for console exclusives. And, more to the point, there's a one year exclusivity to the Epic store, so you know it's going to come to Steam eventually - unlike console exclusives which may never come to other consoles or PC.

1 day ago
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Who developed CS, HL or Dota, some poor and greedy third-parties or same owner of a launcher? I think you know the answer.
That's really stupid thing, because it will wage PC exclusive wars: Steam will be forced to bribe someone else as a reaction to Epic's bribing to save it's audience. Greedy big publishers will drag their AAAAA-games to their crappy launchers.
"Competition is always good for a customer" they said lol.

1 day ago
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They are. They cannot convince anyone to use their launcher, so they will buy every single new game to force you to use their launcher if you want to buy those games, if you want to play them, theres always torrents, you can use those and wait to buy them where you want to buy them. The only way to fight this is if Valve starts to buy their own exclusives aswell and thats not a win win situation.

2 days ago
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Yeah for me it seems like every single new game that is releasing soon and doesn't have it's own launcher will end up epic game's store.

See for me I wouldn't have mind it as bad if some of those exclusive games were exclusive out of the gate when the game was announced and not announced it was going to be exclusive like a week before release (like in exodus's case).

I guess it seems like every week or even month there is more EPIC drama to be had, but so far for me the only game I was looking forward to that hopped ship was phoenix point (a fan of XCOM) but I could wait till it goes on steam; otherwise, most of the other games that become exclusive I haven't really played them before (like exodus, never played any of the other metro games)

3 days ago
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The worst thing about Phoenix Point is that they promised steam keys in their Fig campaign so now the drama will be doubled.

3 days ago
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That's definitely scummy.
Steam buyers of Exodus got what they paid for; Steam keys.
If they paid for GOG or Steam they definitely should get keys from them.

3 days ago
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Yes, basicaly they scammed and conned their supporters that made their dream a reality, and the best part? The website still says its coming to steam and gog. They are such scum.

2 days ago
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Yes, thats exactly Epic Game's plan, they are litearly going out of their way to buy every single new game, whatever it takes to keep it off of steam and make it their own, its their one and only barganing chip to force people, not convince, FORCE to use and buy on the epic store because theres no other reason, infact, theres more reasons to not use it unlike with steam. Exclusives is all they got, just like Sony, exclusives is all they got to force people to buy their outdated shite consoles that hold games back. On pc, our sollution is torrents, for consoles, its emulators, untill they do it right, we will be waiting.

Yes, that would be the most understanding part, first ever signs of a game, where is it going to? Here? Alright, i hate them but thats their choice. Whereas like with Metro, Phoenix, maybe more, it was advertised and even put on steam, thats what you were paying for, but ultimately your choice was yanked out of your hands, a bait and switch in the literal sense.

Oh yes, there will always be plenty more drama while this store exists to plague the internet. Yes, my ''girlfriend'' and one other friend are huge fans of XCOM esq games and they were realy looking forward to this one, they were. Not anymore. They will wait that year out. If i was one of the backers, id be fucking pissed, im not even kidding. I payed for a steam key, i get a epic key? Thats robbery, a scam. Litearly a scam. Should be illegal, god the laws need to catch up. I tought Julian was cool, not anymore, he's a greedy scum. And hey, play the Metro games, their lovely, esspecialy the 1st one, fantastic game. Highly recommend it. At the very least could just watch a lets play. Its worth it.

2 days ago
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Yeah I kind of heard some good things about the metro series just never tried them, but maybe this summer sale I might buy the bundle with the two redux games.

2 days ago
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Yes, you should totaly try them and dont play them on easy either, play them at night if possible, very atmospheric. good games. I can only speak for the first one, the original, not the redux, heard the redux is worse, shame you cant get the original now, it was given out for free many times in the past, wonder how you missed it every time. But yes, if you can and got nothing else, try em, very good games, both rated very positively untill Exodus. Scary, terryfing but so atmospheric, interesting to play these.

1 day ago
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You know I think I might actually own the first one then, since I think I got 2033 free (that is the first one right?) I just haven't gotten around to playing it, but I decided to grab it while it was free.

1 day ago
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If you do own it, thats cool, you should find time for it whenever you can, when most comfortable and convienent, i recommend at night or so since the game is mostly in the dark, its not a horror game but it has scary stuff, supernatural stuff. The first game is Metro 2033, the second game is Metro Last Light, never played it, never owned it.

1 day ago
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You too can keep a game off other platforms for a year if you offer a minimum sales guarantee of $2 million USD.

3 days ago
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For sure, thats alot of money + the sales because there will always be purchasers regardless, i realy cannot wait to hear sales figures for Metro, The Division and more. But nyeah, just like that MTV show was called ''Money Talks''. Irresistable money, money makes you forget who got you there in the first place, the players, the buyers. Such a betrayal.

2 days ago
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Return to steam community cancer comment sections, buddy. That way you won't be calling idiots here who just state facts like you, but also being arrogant, implying that only your opinion matters.

As for Epic, I gave them chances, but after UT4 development halt, stealing games by bribing developers, publishers and the fact that they outright lie that they don't use our personal data within the launcher is just insulting. Their terms of service don't comply with Europe laws so that's already red flag there.

2 days ago*
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Can't say I care much anymore. The whole digital universe is one big personal-info-shadow-game 😵
I'll let them have my useless data. I am no one.. and then I die.

View attached image.
3 days ago
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3 days ago
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Well, Epic Games, you wanna see some anime tiddies too?

3 days ago
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I'll be honest, when I saw "Epic drama" I was expecting something else entirely lol
Was expecting this thread to become a tavern brawl ^^
*Throws pineapple*

3 days ago
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you brought a pineapple to a sword fight? 🤣

View attached image.
1 day ago
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So basically it scans your pc files like Steam and other clients.

3 days ago
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Steam scans Epic and other launcher files?

3 days ago
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Steam scans your whole pc.. so yes all files.

2 days ago
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I've tried to find some confirmation of this, but this document doesn't say a word about scanning a whole user's pc
https://store.steampowered.com/privacy_agreement/

2 days ago
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Discord also scans. This is nothing new.

3 days ago
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They copy a file from your Steam folder, store it in their folder, rename it and let it sit there for the case that you might, sometime in the future, decide to link your Epic Launcher with Steam. If you don't link, well, they still sit on all your data that they copied from Steam without your consent.
This is a clear breach of the GDPR and could potentially hurt them really bad. If someone goes and files an official complaint. Which is very, very unlikely considering the state of gamers these days.
FREEEEEEEEEE GAAAAMMMMEEESSSSSS!!!!

3 days ago
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same happened with origin, when everyone was MAD because origin scanned your PC... while steam scanned EVEN MORE but... GOD GABE.

The real problem here is... if I haven't linked my steam did they still collected the info? That WOULD BE messed up.

3 days ago
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They do.
Read their official answer linked in the OP: "The launcher makes an encrypted local copy of your localconfig.vdf Steam file. However information from this file is only sent to Epic if you choose to import your Steam friends, ..."

That means that the copy is made in advance, without your consent, and is stored in the Epic folder. When at a later date you choose to import your Steam friends, the file gets sent to their servers. If you never choose to import your Steam friends, the copy is made and stored nevertheless.
They say that the file is not send to their servers without you actively importing your Steam friends, but you never know.

3 days ago
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exactly this. Nothing different than others. I guess we need a master client which can control other clients and combine game archieves on different platforms.

3 days ago
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Except Epic was making a copy of the games titles and time played for each game along with your friends list with out even asking if they could.

2 days ago
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I only have epic for the free gamez. The more I hear, the less and less likely (starting from "almost never") I am to ever give them a penny.

3 days ago
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"If something is free, it's because YOU are the product".

3 days ago
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Yet nobody ever complains of HB freebies.

3 days ago
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But they like to receive their subsccription, right?

2 days ago
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Only not everything is free on Epic.

The saying goes when you it's completely free, but in the case of giving freebies to attract customers, the idea is to get you to pay later down the line.

Like their biggest game Fortnite, plenty of people pay for it, eventually, because enough people play it where if some pay a bit for it they still make decent money.

Now if you can't even pay, then yes you're the 'product'.

3 days ago
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This doesn't bother me much. I mean, how often are other things spying on us that we don't know about? They just got caught is all. If we're giving them the benefit of the doubt, they're doing this to try to make you buy stuff, but want to know what kinds of stuff you'd buy. I can't think of any other reason they'd want that kind of data, and the joke's on them, anyway; if Steam can't figure out what kinds of things I'd want to buy on Steam, then what hope does any outside party have? The only things I've gotten from Epic are the free games that have interested me, and I don't really plan on changing that any time soon.

3 days ago
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I can't think of any other reason they'd want that kind of data

Sell it to wtf knows who so that they can do wtf knows what with it?

3 days ago
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Yeah, I work in the medical industry, and people are super paranoid about patient information. I mean, I get people maybe don't want the world to know about any embarrassing/stigmatized medical conditions that they might have, but some of the stuff that we have to give our lives to protect is just... who would even care about this stuff? And yet, I've come to find out that selling this kind of information is HUGE money. So, it's apparently a thing, but it's like you said: they sell it to who knows, so they can do who knows what with it.

2 days ago
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Yeah the medical industry has reasons to be paranoid. Lots of people would love to get their hands on that kind of info and it's very basic privacy.
I have a friend who got fired from a job because the doctor he had to see for his hiring papers blabbed about a medical condition he had, which had nothing to do with his work.
I know doctors in France were very opposed to microchipped social security cards because social security just didn't want to say what kind of info was going to be recorded in the card and transmitted and stored in servers. They got to a compromise because they're everywhere now but it was not easy.

So, it's apparently a thing, but it's like you said: they sell it to who knows, so they can do who knows what with it.

And even what doesn't get sold is just stored away, not that safely and may be hacked or just sold at any time in the future. Right now, it doesn't look like much to us because most of us live in democratic countries but it just takes a cursory look at recent history to know that anything that can help some crazy dude decide who's on his hit list is probably not a good idea in general.

2 days ago
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more reasons to support the "epic exclusive = no buy" mindset.

3 days ago
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Only reason I have the Epic Games launcher installed(aside from the free games) is for World War Z. Was bummed to find out that the game wasn't coming to Steam.

3 days ago
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Wait a year till it comes to steam. It doesnt look good anyway, esspecialy the pvp.

2 days ago
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It's pretty funny how much people actually care about stuff like this. :D

3 days ago
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Only about companies they are pre-depositioned to hate anyway.
For example everyone leaving Facebook for Twitter, who'll get literally the same data if not more.

3 days ago
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Twitter may not be a saint when it comes to privacy, but the amount of data FB is sucking up such as with facial recognition, web bug trackers, boatloads of data on your phone if you have the app, scandals such as cambridge analyitica and even if you don't have an account they have a shadow profile of you. The same can hardly be said of Twitter. Though to be fair I'm not on either.

2 days ago
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I've always found that people who do not care, just have no imagination, and do a fair amount of bragging for it too.

3 days ago
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Good observation. :)

2 days ago
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Yeah, because if we dont, its gonna hurt the industry, and us.

2 days ago
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I guess it depends on the user, I would not be affected by something like this in any way shape or form.

2 days ago
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Im assuming you mean to stop playing games soon at some point, at which case, i guess youre right.

1 day ago
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EDIT: removed since people think I have information.

1 day ago*
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3 days ago
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and then we use google and facebook on our windows 10 pc...
lets burn epic store to hell for collecting our data. i will create a group for this on facebook. pls join everybody!

3 days ago
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Agree !

Sent from my Android that tracks literally everything happens in my life, bought on Amazon that tracks everything I buy and everything I want to buy.

3 days ago
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so true

3 days ago
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Agree, we have a thread that makes Epic look like a cute red panda baby among these

3 days ago
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Sign me up, I'll bring my tinfoil hat too!

3 days ago
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hahaha!

3 days ago
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Can the people who don't use Facebook, Google or twitter and run Linux complain then?

3 days ago
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why not? i just assume most people who complain are using them

3 days ago
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At least Facebook give you options to opt out of this stuff now. Not that I even use FB really.

3 days ago
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And Epic said they will change this.
So if we can forgive one...?

2 days ago
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Who said anything about forgiving facebook. Several of my friends deleted their accounts, and I barely ever use mine. Not that I ever really did anyway. I've always been wary about putting too much personal info up there.

You are mistaking me for someone who actually cares about the Epic Fiasco. :P I just don't like when any of these companies think they can get away with stuff. GDPR was introduced BECAUSE of Facebook and others like it. So... I do expect that anything I might sign up to from now on will have an opt-in and clearly show me what they intend to do with my information. It's not unreasonable to expect this as an EU citizen when you know about the laws that are in place.

2 days ago
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not claimed a single free game from epic, neither installed the client so I am safe. There are enough good games on steam I still want to play and there will be still enough good games I want to play and by the time I could play epic exclusives then those, or some of those will be already on steam too.

3 days ago
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Meanwhile also people: I wont use Epic, it doesn't have friends and profiles.
Far I can tell this is all public data you can witness going to someone's Steam page manually?

One company (Valve) gets data; all is fine.
Other company gets the exact same (actually; less) data: THE SKY IS FALLING
I still don't really see why everyone is so up in arms over Epic, super tinfoal hat, yet Valve vets the free pass on all. Is this a cold war thing?

3 days ago*
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But, Steam is hot by definition!

Although you could argue about the relativity of cold and hot...

3 days ago
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A statement from Epic was : They wont include features like :Cards/importing friends from steam or reviews for games .
I dont like Epic for dumping, UT4, dropping paragon .
i needed to change my nickname EpicKK to something else [because i have epic in my name ]
you could get into epic accs with only a specific URL for your Account without knowing ID or PW .
Exclusives games that arent good for the market .
They dont have bundles yet .
Epic games installs always fortnite even if you dont want it .
If you hide your playtime etc and your profile and Epic still copy your profile data isnt that a crime ,because its your privat data ?
there are plenty more reason why epic is hatred in the community .

3 days ago
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But they already will add reviews and I think friends?
Fair on that.
Too on that even if a very specific instance
Never heard of this. Figured it would be more widespread news if true than "omg, the Chinese!", no?
X-box, Sony and the Switch disagree. Infact lack of exclusives is really killing X-box in the console war. For PC another launcher matters little when everyone uses one, Bethesda's being the worst. Didn's stop anyone getting Fallout76, poor souls.
Agreed. I really wish GOG got some bundles. As Humble, Fanatical etc use Steam that's what I get, even not using theirstore.
Didn't know that. Is that true?
I don't think "store but don't show" isn't exactly making your data private, but that's a bit more legal than I have understanding of.

2 days ago
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You have no idea everyone's profile is default to be hidden right now?
Even if a player set the profile to be public, it doesn't give the permission for another program to scan my drive. It can access the profile though steam API if it really get users' permissions.
A program (especially for a pure game launcher) should have its own playground and nothing more. Of course Valve can access steam data because it's his playground for his service, but Epic on the other hand, is just a intruder, for spying purpose only.

Obviously you and people who defend Epic don't have much knowledge in computer, so let me put the whole thing this way:
If you are a player whose profile is public:
A beggar came and asked for money, you kindly took out a dollar and gave it to him. Instead of taking the money, the beggar just grabbed the wallet from your hands and started digging through. He claimed he did that only because he wanted a dollar, and you actually believed him....

If you are a player whose profile is hidden:
Beggar: Stop! Give me a dollar!
You: No! I refuse!
Beggar: Then may I take a look at your wallet? I won't steal anything, I promise!
You: Please, take your time :)

3 days ago
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It's not that they are getting the data... it's HOW they are getting it. If they are doing this to EU users without an opt-in, they are in breach of GDPR.

3 days ago
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By ctrl+c, crtl+v?
From what I gather it's literally just a Steamfile, right?
(+the contents of your Steam profile)

Copying the file isn't illegal, sending it over without permission is. Since it doesn't do that till you say yes I doubt it'll survive an EU lawsuit.

2 days ago*
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People are saying that it's doing it without you linking Steam profiles by checking for the Steam client on your computer. That would be very shady indeed. Regardless if information is publicly available elsewhere, they don't have the right to retrieve that info unless you first connect the accounts. I haven't checked into this myself since while I do have some software development skills, I'm pretty much a rookie.

I haven't installed this app either because I have a library of Steam games that I have yet to play. I also haven't jumped on the Epic hate wagon because quite honestly, I don't care. What they do doesn't affect me because I likely won't be buying from them. :) I've just been following this latest uproar because I find it interesting.

2 days ago
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Their launcher collects data? Holy ****, I never saw that coming. It must be the first program ever that spies on the user activities and does with the information whatever it pleases. Stone them! Put them on the wall! Those devils...
Can't be anyone a saint like Google.

3 days ago
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So they doing the same thing as almost every other service. We should definetely burn them at the stake for that.

It's funny how people react at single epsides, while being constantly monitored and analyzed for greater profit margin.

If Google, Facebook and your bank were real persons, who follow you everythere, looked at your basket in shops, counted the money in your wallet, scraping pencils in their notebook while you texting your SO, etc, etc THAT would be another story, right?

3 days ago
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Well, the difference is that those companies are monitoring you through their own products that are integrated over the web. Like it or not, that just comes with the territory I guess.

The controversy here is that Epic is going through your Steam data using underhanded practices (that for example ignore your profile's privacy settings) when they could be getting all of the data without the 'shady bussiness' via the Steam APIs (which respects the profile's privacy settings) like everyone else does. That is what this is all about.

3 days ago
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Problem is their API ain't the best, even without "Steam is learning" throwing a wrench in it.
There's reasons most users use plugins or addons to use the info from their Steam login to sync Steamgifts rather than trust the default, based on the API.

3 days ago
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I haven't personally worked with Steam API so I wouldn't know but I would certainly like to learn more about what you meant by 'using plugins or addons to use the info from their Steam login' since it got me confused. Aren't these plugins and addons (don't really know which specific ones you have in mind) themselves using Steam API to actually function?

3 days ago
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From what I know they use the Steam store information, which requires you to be logged in (hence being no use for Steamgifts by default)
I know the last time the store was on the fritz people posted how you could see that info manually.

2 days ago
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Either some people can't be bothered to read what happens or are really indifferent to privacy concerns. The issue is indeed that they're going about it with shady practices and not respecting your choices. This is done behind the scenes, scanning data that isn't theirs and they're trying to cover it up with the "linked account" excuse (Also it's not encrypted if you checked the images on the forums they say it's encrypted, I got confused with the monitoring program that did the images). If you never going to link accounts then why are they pre-scanning it and how certain is it that it doesn't automatically get sent? That is the reason the Steam API exists.
It's alarming that people are ok with this because "it's just the same thing that happens elsewhere".. it's not and it doesn't happen..yet.. But it's slowly creeping up, one step at a time and you (well obviously not all of you) getting used to it without any protest is the problem..
PS. Apparently there's nothing you can talk in here without collecting blacklists! :p

3 days ago*
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I agree. And I don't even get why the people who are really unconcerned would even bother to read the thread. It all seems like bravado to me. Trying to convince themselves it's not serious.
Anyway, thanks for the info. I had redeemed the freebies there but not installed the launcher. I won't now.

3 days ago
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It's alarming that people are ok with this because "it's just the same thing that happens elsewhere".

I suspect that's because the Fortnite crowd can't handle it when people are saying bad things about their favourite developer/platform.

Also, I think you are getting blacklisted because your nickname is a lie ;D

3 days ago
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Also, I think you are getting blacklisted because your nickname is a lie ;D

Didn't see that coming..Ga Daemit!

3 days ago
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The worst possible argument is "someone else does it, so it's okay."

3 days ago
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Many don't want to ignore it, but it's getting ridiculous that others do the same, and it's fine. Okay that we don't want another service to do shady things, but every single topic about epic turns into spitting at epic exclusively by a mod, that doesn't even address that this is an already existing problem so. And as so, the focus could be broadened and look at the already big players doing this, but that requires effort. hating epic is more trendy than actually caring about data issues, and not just cockblocking the next player on the field.

It's not about having an issue and wanting to fix it, but raising voices against a new service that most could just ignore. Let's see how many people would be just as serious about facebook, google, microsoft, amazon "basically being a spyware" and threatening not to use it.. I guess it would be hard. Hating exclusively epic for what others also do is just getting internet cookie points by attacking the smallest point of resistance.

3 days ago
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The smallest point of resistance is the easiest point to break.

This is also the right time to be attacking them and their service for whatever we don't like about it, in hopes that they might possibly listen (or be threatened with losing customers), because it is the time when they're trying to grow their user-base. In other words, we have more leverage than we ever will in the future to do something and have our say.

3 days ago
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I don't disagree with that point.

It would be nice just to see other names mentioned, other than Epic's, from the "attacker's" side, even just as a hint that they know that this exists, and is wrong elsewhere too. Because currently it genuinely sounds like Steam fanboys hating on the Steam wannabe Epic, even if their claim against Epic is grounded and valid.

Really, that's my only gripe with these issues, and likely many others people's - that one side feels anti-Epic and ignorant to others doing the same jazz with our data, while the other side sounds passive because they talk about the existing issue, and not just the new one surfacing. A usual misunderstanding / miscommunication.

3 days ago
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that one side feels anti-Epic and ignorant to others doing the same jazz with our data

When you attack a fortress, you don't start with the biggest and sturdiest wall. We've already missed our time attacking the "giants", because we were ignorant to what was happening.

We should no longer claim ignorance as an excuse, nor should we use those giants as an excuse to do nothing.

3 days ago
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The problem is attacking thenew group and making people stick to the giant.
It's lose-lose for consumers all around, as usual.

Either stick to the giant or try that new weak fort and hope it improves. There's no winning for consumers anyway.

2 days ago
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Ehh, seeing how Tim Sweeney pretty much says their goal is to make consumers lose - less competition (no third party key sellers) and higher prices (due to lack of competition) - and victory for publishers (more money since consumers will be forced to use single store monopoly).

And on the other hand Steam just announced introducing P2P that won't be as easily killed by DDoSing "haxors".
So far it is lose-win choice for consumers...

2 days ago*
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Peer2peer for a store, what?

2 days ago
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For games using Steam store, assuming devs will want to implement it.

2 days ago
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You mean like Payday 2 who uses that since 2013?

2 days ago
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No, if we'd use Payday as an example, then Payday uses P2P v1. Valve introduces P2P v2.

Long story short, Valve made some improvements to P2P that will allow devs to make P2P connection between players safer and with less risks to being under DDoS attack, while also improving connection stability and speed.
Valve was working on it for at least a year (they were talking about it in 2018), they tested it in their own games and they decided it works good enough to allow other devs to use upgraded P2P.

2 days ago
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The problem is attacking thenew group and making people stick to the giant.

The problem is people thinking that's what I meant. If you want to fight the giant, you want to offer something better than the giant, not something the same (or worse). In my opinion, you're going to have much more chance of forcing Epic's hand right now than you are forcing Steam's, for the reason I've given above. Steam already has you for what? 4000+ games? Epic wants you to buy from them, so you have all the leverage in the world against them.

You want Steam to change? Then force Epic to become a better service than Steam, so Steam will be leveraged to change as well.

It's lose-lose for consumers all around, as usual.
There's no winning for consumers anyway.

That's as big a cop-out as "everyone else does it, so it's okay."

The following is what I stated:

This is also the right time to be attacking them and their service for whatever we don't like about it, in hopes that they might possibly listen (or be threatened with losing customers), because it is the time when they're trying to grow their user-base. In other words, we have more leverage than we ever will in the future to do something and have our say.

2 days ago*
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Sadly enough, being better than the giant isn't a guarantee to beat the giant.
Sad example; GOG.

Another example is the Xbox is technically superior to Playstation but they win due to exclusives. The weaker Switch is beating both of them regardless.

2 days ago
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I don't give a shit if they beat the giant or not.
This isn't about beating the giant anyway. They beat the giant, they just become another giant.

This is about forcing actual competition. This is about getting what I want out of a service and what I can do to assure that happens. And I'm saying now is the time to do that, before they get so big that they can safely turn a deaf ear to all of us.

2 days ago
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I, for one, have not much favouritism for any of these companies, although I have likes and dislikes with them, as most people do. There have been many threads about Steam's problems (or other companies like Origin etc) and even in their forums people complained about issues and still do, which is good. On the other hand, Epic is now beginning to grow its player base and it is the forums outside of it that are more likely to be seen by others and learn about their practices and how they go about their business so when problems such as these arise they should be addressed early enough (by us) and we should follow them through (as much as possible) to see how they handle them..

2 days ago
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My question is more; When everyone does it, why is this specific instance the one we take objection with? Why make Epic the hill to die on?

2 days ago
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Either some people can't be bothered to read what happens or are really indifferent to privacy concerns.

I'm inclined to sum it up as "...or they're being idiots on purpose". When people stick their fingers in their ears it's not like they were trying to pick their nose and missed the target.

Some of them are almost certainly dishonest and think in a Wild West setting, they can profit themselves from stealing and abusing other people's data.

3 days ago
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What would you expect from someone who bribes publishers for game exlusivity? Not having shitty policies? :D

3 days ago
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yeah cos microsoft and sony have never done that for consoles over the last 15 years lol

2 days ago
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Epic..? Tencent ... CN....Great Firewall... There is something to guess in a bad way.

3 days ago
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Well, to be fair, if you read the top post, you should read the comments down below as well.

The one biggest and glaring problem is that they took user's personal data from Steam without user's content.

The rest of the voodoo about the networks are mostly false alarm.

2 days ago
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stashin' up on lifelong supplies of tinfoil as we speak. knew this day would eventually come. those damn Chinese. . .

2 days ago
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To younger members of society ... competition is good in whatever form.

2 days ago
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You say that this is in any way good? Collecting data without users knowledge, fighting steam monopol with another one? At this point Epic policy is just hitting gamers in many ways.

2 days ago
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at least epic store is going to have quality and not be full of junk and rape simulators .... Do u use facebook, google, itunes guess what they all use ur data to advertise to you.

1 day ago*
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But when you use google, fb etc. they inform You about collecting your data. Steam until opening for EA, easier way to place your games there didn't have whole stack of crappy games but ppl demanded more freedom and how can You be so sure that epic within a year or two won't get some shitty indie games? You can't be sure. And collecting data for advertisment and collecting data for unknown reason are two separate things. Maby You're from Epic or Deep Silver with that way of seeing what is good competition.

1 day ago
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facebook did not inform anyone when they let companies use there data to tell what political party you are likely to vote for .... this happened when using facebook ... they just want people to buy there harvested data - that is there busy model - where else do they make money.

22 hours ago
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Read all the fb policies and regulations which ppl are willingly accepting and You'll have whole picture what they can do with your data. Epic now just rip off steams data which i hope steam will consider acting to the detriment and epic will get some consequences.
In your comment you're jsutifing Epic policy aboud just stealing data withour warning and now you criticise everyone else... XD Man that's some logic behind "competition is good in whatever form"

20 hours ago
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if you think all online companies arent selling every bit of your data then you are welcome for the enlightenment.

19 hours ago
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You don't make any sense with that sentence. Where I wrote something that could possibly point that I claim that no one is selling my data? Nowhere. You wrote about Facebook and i replied to that.

18 hours ago
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How the fact I can't buy any Epic Exclusive from for-example Humble Bundle is a competition?

2 days ago
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View attached image.
2 days ago
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it is somewhere else to buy games ... that is competition. 10 years ago steam had good sales and quality in its catalogue - remember this,.

1 day ago
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It is not "somewhere else". It is "the only place".

Not sure what's your point with steam sales - it's publishers who decide the price, so it is on them that sales aren't as good as they used to.
So if you didn't like the price of Unreal Tournament on Steam, blame Epic, not Valve.

1 day ago
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yes publishers decided 30% cut for steam ?!?!?

22 hours ago
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Not sure what 30% cut has with Steam sales.

It is not like 10 years ago Valve cut was 0% so publishers made great sales, and suddenly Valve asked for 30% and publishers are "ehh, no more good sales then".

21 hours ago
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And publishers with their creators have gog, hb, their own page, boxes and other options for selling their game and it'll cost them more or less. You want to run a store where you sell anything for the price that you pay at wholesaler?

20 hours ago
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The worst take for dumbest people.

2 days ago
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Wow, you're too old to understand that fake exclusivity isn't a form of a competition

2 days ago
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you're too young to remember when you could buy pc games from various stores and online outlets without needing a launcher and drm from valve .....

1 day ago
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And now we're back to stone age...I guess you won't be happy about.
And remember: making something much much better than your competitors isn't a monopoly. Monopoly when you have exclusivity of something.

1 day ago
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i bet you dont buy park lane or mayfair.

1 day ago
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Let's get back to boxes and cd-keys without internet! Man I can't even justify Your point of view in any logic way. Long time ago you could only buy boxed game, order it from publisher site. Steam is not drm, most of games on steam are on gog, hb without needing launcher. Denuvo etc. that is DRM.

1 day ago
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play your game without steam when bought on steam.

22 hours ago
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Most of Steam games can be played without Steam, but not all

21 hours ago
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Play your epic game without epic launcher? Play any digitaly bought game without internet... And so on.

20 hours ago
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You inferred steam was DRM free

19 hours ago
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I wrote exactly what I was goint to -that steam is not Digital rights management (DRM) that is a set of access control technologies for restricting the use of proprietary hardware and copyrighted works. You can download game and run it offline. Something like denuvo is DRM and it forces being online. Steam itself is not suppose to be software used to secure games.

Taking Your point of view into consideration couple ways to get DRM free games is to buy them on GOG or check if they are available on hb shop to dowload directly from them.

18 hours ago
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Since you brought it up, I definitely remember that.

I also remember driving all over town (and even into the next couple towns over) looking for a particular game I wanted. I remember driving through snow and rain, and I remember waiting in lines, and I remember places being sold out of new games, and there being no other way to get a copy until they got them back in stock. Ah yeah, and I remember, too, that if the game didn't work for whatever reason, you weren't allowed to return it and it became a fancy coaster.

These days, I just sign into a client, press the "add to cart" button and send my money. Instant gaming.

TLDR: The "olden days" aren't as sunshine and roses as you seem to remember them. We wouldn't have online clients if they weren't better all around for publishers and customers.

21 hours ago
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where do u live alaska ? My gaming shops were not far away.

21 hours ago
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But popular games sell out fast, and sometimes you had to go to every game store in town.

20 hours ago
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maybe once that happend with gta vice city on ps2

20 hours ago
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I guess I need to reiterate my point:

I don't even have to leave the house to buy games anymore. That's pretty fucking convenient, if you ask me.

20 hours ago
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I could have a girlfriend without leaving the house but would that be the same as one outside the house convenience or not ?

19 hours ago
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View attached image.
18 hours ago
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