From G2A's own page:
"You, the developer, only need to get verified"
I'd need to check back through the achives on dodgy deals & shady business, but wasn't there something in there that meant getting verified also had unwanted side effects for the devs that most did not want to put up with ?
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The only one of those developer studios that I recognize is Deep Silver. Is that a good thing or a bad thing? Can't tell.
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They must be doing something right, Deep Silver is a THQ nordic subsidiary. And they allow them to make these decisions
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I'm surprised they would care, considering it looks like they've only made a couple of games. Do they really have a lot of credit card fraud with an old game like EVE?
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More blame the marketplace BS. G2A is not the problem (another shady site will pop up to replace them if they ever die), credit card fraud is.
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publishers give out hundreds of keys to "influencers" and then are shocked that some appear on g2a. so stupid
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My unpopular opinion is that the platform, publisher/dev, and grey market sites all play a role:
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Platform (like Steam) could allow for keyless activation but doesnt, which Valve used to support via Oauth, but stopped supporting presumably because they did not want to further develop/support it. I think uplay/Ubisoft might be an example of support for keyless activation?
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Grey market sites like G2A dont go as far as ebay to verify seller ID with strict rules on disputes & reputation.
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Many publishers/devs arent willing to take the time/effort to manage their keys or key batches in a way that they can deactivate the game associated with a chargeback. Some like TinyBuild complain about G2A, say its too difficult to handle key batches, and refuse to give chargeback keys to G2A (unlike Factorio & Subnautica devs)
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I mostly agree with you but it is the 1st time I read that " Some like TinyBuild complain about G2A, say its too difficult to handle key batches, and refuse to give chargeback keys to G2A"
As far as I know, what TinyBuild wanted and did was asked G2A for the keys that were sold on their site. Since they were unclear which keys are compromised they did not want to harm any other legit purchases which is the case for most Devs as it harms their business. TinyBuild knew the source came from G2A through the chargebacks however G2A is unwilling to assist and instead asked the Devs to provide the keys they suspect is compromised.
Therefore, from that point of view, I believe TinyBuild has the right as the Developers to ask for the keys. TinyBuild can even return the sum to the players that are affected by incorrect decision during this but instead G2A deny to assist. Which from your statement seems the opposite from what I know.
Cheers~
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it is the 1st time I read that " Some like TinyBuild complain about G2A, say its too difficult to handle key batches, and refuse to give chargeback keys to G2A"
Source: https://www.tinybuild.com/single-post/2017/04/28/G2A-sold-450k-worth-of-our-game-keys
For the "too difficult" part, see "UPDATE1." Regarding their "refuse to give chargeback keys" see the articles in "UPDATE4".
Since they were unclear which keys are compromised they did not want to harm any other legit purchases
What's absurd to me is the "too difficult" part - If its so difficult, then why are Factorio and Subnautica devs willing to provide chargeback related keys? Tinybuild brings in millions in revenue per year and just raised $15 million in investment. If the problem was big enough for Tinybuild to actually do anything, they'd figure out a way to manage their keys like other devs, but they're not. A dev will not harm any legit purchases if they can tie a credit card transaction to a key. Stores are capable of this, but something with some devs doesn't support it, and no dev has explained why some devs can handle it & others won't/can't.
TinyBuild knew the source came from G2A through the chargebacks
How would they know that? Anyone who makes fraudulent credit card charges can trade or sell the keys however they want. The only way a dev can know with any certainty that a given chargeback is because of a fraudulent G2A reseller is if the game sold is later revoked by Steam/Valve or the dev and then the G2A purchaser contacts dev & says the game purchased through G2A was revoked.
however G2A is unwilling to assist
Let's be clear: One party, G2A or Devs, have to provide the other party with the keys in question. G2A asked TinyBuild for keys and TinyBuild refused. G2A has refused to provide devs with keys on their marketplace, and Steam provides no way for anyone to verify keys.
Relatively recently though, G2A claimed that if devs provided keys and some third party could link those to chargebacks then they'd give 10x money back on chargebacks. Some devs delivered but now G2A has moved the goalposts by saying they will create a key blocking tool if enough devs sign up for it, but requires devs to provide lists of keys.
I believe TinyBuild has the right as the Developers to ask for the keys.
I guess G2A could give pubs/devs every key for every game the publisher makes, and then its up to the publisher whether they want to verify keys. What other open marketplace does something similar? If we don't ask something similar of sites like eBay (where sellers can flip things bought fraudulently), then we should be honest about why we asking more from G2A.
I've said G2A needs to manage their sellers better and I don't like G2A's practices, but there's a vicious cycle here of Steam the platform, G2A/grey market, and pubs/devs that very few of the parties among all of them seems willing to break the cycle.
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I think the paragraph above Update 1 sums up alot you mentioned.
"Coincidentally, this is when we were having discussions about partnering up with G2A and how that'd work."
- 1st Tinybuild was thinking of working with G2A at a point and was going through the process at understanding their process. I think everything went downhill from the reply they received from G2A when they request for assistance.
"They are your partners that have sold the keys on G2A, which they purchased directly from you. If anything this should give you an idea on the reach that G2A has, instead of your partners selling here you could do that directly. I can tell you that no compensation will be given."
- Accusing Tinybuild partners to be the culprit and no compensation will be given.
"If you suspect that these codes where all chargebacks aka fraud/stolen credit card purchases I would be happy to look into that however I will say this requires TinyBuild to want to work with G2A. Both in that you need to revoke the keys you will be claiming as stolen from the players who now own them and supply myself with the codes you suspect being a part of this."
- G2A demanding the keys outright, it makes no business sense to Tinybuild nor to me. The reason going to G2A is because the keys sold on their site does not align with TinyBuild's business practices which they believe also came from fraud. At this point, the Devs are already at a lost since they already had to deactivate keys then G2A asks for keys that Tinybuild "think" might be in the case.
"We will check to see if that is the case but I doubt that codes with such large numbers would be that way. "
- Its basically asking Tinybuild to do all the hardwork and then pushing all responsibilities aside.
"Honestly I think you will be surprised in that it is not fraud, but your resale partners doing what they do best, selling keys. They just happen to be selling them on G2A."
- That's just hardline salesman tactics at this point, trying to sell the site and their service to Tinybuild at this point.
To sum it up, 1st Tinybuild gets hit financially though I have to say the amount varies as personally I would have waited for a sale or bundle to buy their game so outright the amount might not be as huge but still is a burn in your pockets especially if you're the Devs and got your product stolen.
Update 4 "demand we give them a list of keys we believe are fraudulent. In a rather corporate way, they start off with a 3 day ultimatum."
G2A from the start showed no sincerity in their approach and instead hardline salesman their service and demand Tinybuild to work with them.
Honestly, would you have worked with someone you are selling your products illegally and show no sincerity to assist? All that being said by G2A to this point has never been delivered. Tinybuild was the 1st Devs I know that got into the argument with G2A 1st perhaps Factorio and Subnautica had learnt from it, if not they should.
Even for me, putting myself in Tinybuild's standpoint, giving a batch of keys which might contain keys that are legally purchased or unactivated, then have to deactivate those keys myself. After which, you behold the onslaught of gamers coming to your forum and on reddit to flame you believing the Devs scammed them off their $$$ instead of the Key reselling site they got their keys from. Its all bad business, bad publicity and at the end of the day, G2A gets into no harm. If they had been gullible and worked with G2A, only G2A gains from it.
I understand why there is a G2A around. When I started looking for sites to get cheaper games, I've thought of using G2A and Kinguin. After looking into sites, reading about their practices, listening and discussing the topic on Twitch streams. I decide against it and I am happy with my decision. At some point G2A was very popular on Twitch and the most popular streamers on Twitch would defend it but it later also come to a conclusion why its not supported by them anymore, its just too dubious of their practices.
I totally agree that the industry needs more regulation and cooperations. Steam did react with region locks, no more steam gifts etc. All i am seeing now is the industry turning into a keyless movement and that can move quick too. Tbh, I dont even know why they should be working with G2A to begin with.
Cheers~
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If I was a game dev, I'd be a little apprehensive about actually providing G2A with a list of working keys too. lol.
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Since keyless activation hasn't been completely removed I'd assume it's partial removal is to prevent other stores from providing steam access without risking reselling of the keys. Some give away in the past few months used it, I want to say from Intel, and my last video card used it to deliver the bundled game.
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They wouldnt need to cover their ass if they weren't allowing shady dealings on their site to start with.
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I was just about to post something related to this topic. I figured you could add this info into to the OP instead of me creating a separate thread.
https://www.pcgamer.com/subnautica-dev-to-g2a-you-now-owe-us-dollar300000/
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Which interestingly goes back to the fact that the Devs have to provide the keys which was the highlight of TinyBuild's case. Doesn't Devs have the right to request their product back and of course then they will have to bear the cost of their action too. Which G2A refuses outright. This seems less than a half-hearted approach to the issue, just a smoke screen without sincerity.
Cheers~
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just a smoke screen without sincerity
That may be the single best summarized description of G2A's practices that one could possibly offer.
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Hahaha, Thank you. You know, oddly I was just thinking I hasn't read your comments for abeit tho I have not been reading alot in the forum these days trying to play games. XD What a coincidence for you to reply.
On a flip-side I have a conspiracy theory that G2A is remotely backed by the Chinese Communist Party since their HQ is in Hong Kong. Its odd to have these practices in Hong Kong where I feel are quite strict on business malpractices being a grey area of market. I wouldn't be surprise if it is though since alot of large corporations is backed by the CCP.
Cheers and have a good day ahead~
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I hasn't read your comments for abeit
I've been travelling in Narnia, but I had to stop back in for a few pithy one-liners.
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I hope your travels and fortune has been well/~ :)
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The ture, singular underline problem is:
every single form of currency, both physical and digital, can be stolen and used to buy stuff.
Only when these companies suffer losing a sale to the police returning the stolen currency to the rightful and lawful owner do they cry and complain...
...while ALL these centuries these companies were laughing at us buyers using physical currency because they got to keep the stolen money. (only in exceptionally rare cases where stolen money was tracked to a store and said store didn't have their government 'pat on the back' assurance)
edit: these companies catch 22: make less profit selling through less distributors for cash vs making more profit selling through more distributors for credit with increase exposure to fraud. (ie: credit is EXTREMELY easy to track, thouse refund in case of theft).
edit2: another point:
I'm 100% certain: cost of bank transaction fee for charge back, is less then the cost of losing a physical product + the bank transaction fee. (ie: digital store credit card charge back, vs physical store credit card charge back).
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Update: G2A has issued a response to Unknown Worlds' claim, calling its allegations "slander" because G2A didn't actually exist in 2013, which is when Unknown Worlds says the chargebacks were made. Later, Unknown Worlds' Charlie Cleveland stated that G2A appears to be right in this case, but that he still opposes the company.
So apparently Unknown Worlds' claim was bullshit...
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just a bunch of devs embarrassing themselves, this happens often lately
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"Key reseller G2A's proposed key blocking tool hasn't proven all that popular among developers. Only 19 studios expressed their interest in using it with three days left before the first deadline.
G2A had previously stated that it would cover all the costs of development for a key blocking tool as long as at least 100 developers signed up to use it.
As reported by website gamesindustry.biz, these are the 19 developers that expressed their interest in a key blocking tool: Beer Money Games, Bossa Studios, CCP Games, Crimson Leaf, Deep Silver, Dirty Beast Games, Dynart, Electrocosmos, Farom Studio, Fox Byte Games, Hound Picked Games, MetalBear, Modoka Studios Entertainment, Moonlight Mouse, Nyaargh, SimaGames, Squidpunch Studios, Tate Mutimedia, and Troglobytes Games.
The idea of a key blocking tool was proposed by G2A after it landed in hot water when Descenders and Factorio developers spoke out against the reseller, the latter calling it "worse than piracy".
After a series of attempts to clarify their stance and blunders, including asking press outlets to post a "non-biased" article written by G2A without marking it as such, the reseller went ahead and said it would fund the development of a key blocker tool, provided enough interest was shown.
The deadline for signing up has now been extended until the end of the month and the company will be present at this year's Gamescom to discuss its plans with the studios."
https://www.gamewatcher.com/news/g2a-s-key-blocking-tool
Also https://www.pcgamer.com/subnautica-dev-to-g2a-you-now-owe-us-dollar300000/
(https://www.steamgifts.com/go/comment/STsuLdX)
Most devs i never heard of, and some just seem to make android games only. But more reason to avoid G2A in the future.
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