Yay?
Pretty much,if her running over to cry to Kotaku and similar cesspits is any indication.
Predictably,she's completely unapologetic,refuses to take responsibility for the situation that was all her doing,cries about how her public tweeter account/tweets were somehow "her space" and untounchable (basically parroting what Peter Fries said about "private accounts"),blames everything on "toxic fans",hides behind women as a meatshield by pulling the "This is a very clear message to the women in the company!",throwing Fries-a guy who literally (and stupidly) sacrificed his decade of service to ArenaNet for her,mind you-under the bus in the process.
Its ridiculous.
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Yeah I read a news article on this yesterday. I think my face and palm merged.
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I've seen a youtube vid on this matter just earlier today, nice to see that justice got served haha.
Also, I wonder if Peter and Jessica are still friends, seeing how he got fired pretty much because of her :D
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Yeah he just lost a job of 13 years I think it was. She wouldn't care too much, she was only there for a year and she'll probably just play the victim card yet again. Good luck to her getting another job in the industry though with that publicly view-able attitude!
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Interesting read.
I'm surprised some people are still defending them and saying that their dismissal was going too far with the "punishment" - It's pretty common knowledge that acting unprofessionally towards members of a community where you operate as a representative of the company, even when on your personal medias, may and will result in your employment's termination.
It's not the first time such actions have cost a person's employment, and it won't be the last. Most employers bind you to an agreement of some kind which suggests that poor behaviour outside of work hours CAN result in dismissal. I don't think that the company behind GW2 would be any different in that matter.
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So... what'd she do exactly? I can't find anything outrage-worthy in any of your links. All I see is some guy trying to teach her the basics of her job and her getting annoyed and assuming she's being treated as incompetent because she's a woman. Is that reaction justified? I dunno, I'm not a female game dev so I don't know if it happens to them often enough to justify assuming it was happening again here. In any case, I see no reason to not give the benefit of the doubt both to Deroir and to Jessica. There's just no cause for outrage here.
Which is why the assholes who started a shitstorm about it do not get the benefit of the doubt. They're the only guilty party here. That includes you, OP.
a typical SJW sociopath
one of the freaks
Good riddance to bad rubbish.
The only bad rubbish here is your post.
From what I read it seems the dev is both competent and liked by her colleagues, so hopefully she'll soon find a job with a company that actually values its employees. Meanwhile ArenaNet has secured itself a drop in morale, productivity and loyalty, and gained the approval of the outrage culture mob, who will completely forget this by next week. Great job, ArenaNet!
And WTF did the other guy do to get fired? Seriously, what? Did ArenaNet just fire anyone who's name was brought up in the shitstorm without even a cursory glance at what was happening?
The last unaddressed thing is her tweet about TB. That does seem shitty. But I would reserve judgement until aware of the context. There very well could be a valid reason for her to think he was doing more harm than good.
Finally, if there's one thing the 2 people who were fired actually did wrong, it's that in the year 2018 they still didn't understand that people who have jobs should stay the hell away from social media. It's a minefield of angry clueless mobs waiting to happen, and almost any company would throw almost any employee under the bus without a second thought if they get the impression their image is threatened.
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And here comes the White Knight Defense Force...
So... what'd she do exactly?
Oh,you know...Proudly piss on a dead reviewer's grave?
Attack the community of the game/company she works on/for because politics-induced schizophrenia?
Probably violate a bunch of clauses concerning her conduct as a company representative for the exact same reason?
Just the usual stuff one should find scummy,provided you don't have your head far up your arse.
That includes you, OP
So I'm an "asshole" for providing cold,hard facts.
'kay.
The only bad rubbish here is your post.
Uhuh.The whole story is "rubbish",all the facts pertaining this mess are "rubbish",its all "assholes starting a shitstorm" and Price is just an "innocent victim" (even though its fairly obvious that she's the true asshole that started the shitstorm that cost her & her colleague her job in the first place).
And if you have a problem with me calling basically calling the sky blue,well...you'll just have to deal with it.
hopefully she'll soon find a job with a company that actually values its employees
She's free to join EA anytime.They love this sort of crowd.
ArenaNet has secured itself a drop in morale, productivity and loyalty
Pretty sure that standing for their community and kicking out toxic members of the crew that hurt the company's image will have the opposite effect.Then again,who am I to stand in the way of your delusions and fantasies?
the outrage culture mob
So consumers,enraged at one of the devs for attacking them for no reason=just an "outraged culture mob".
Way to make yourself look like a complete and utter scumbag,kiddo.
I would reserve judgement until aware of the context
Pretty sure that the tweet itself,right after TB's death and her specifically stating that she's talking about him are context enough.Then again,I'm sure we have already established that reality doesn't mean a damn thing to you,amiright?
Stay salty,my friend.
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Well said, sir.
Not to mention the fact that Deroir was almost nauseatingly polite, it really screams entitlement when someone can get offended by what he said.
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Its safe to say that you can easily remove the word "almost".After all,the poor bloke went so far as to apologize to her.One can't help but feel sorry for him.He literally did nothing wrong to deserve this treatment.
At least the community apparently got his back.Its always nice when established goodwill is actually worth spit.
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He actually handled her completely wrong, you need to play the victim card first against that sort of sjw sociopath, he should have said how offensive her attack was against him and how hurtful the words she was saying was, play them at their own game. ;)
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That sounds fun and all but I don't think she would've cared. She immediately jumped to the woman card so she's probably the 'men have all the power in the world so it's not sexist to hate them' kind of crazy.
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its not that effective if you are an heterosexual white male, though.
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They don't know that ;) but yeah heterosexual white males are the cause of everything wrong in the world, just ask one of these sjws and they'll happily tell you hey!
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somehow i knew i would have found someone like that down here.
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I don't really get her starting arguement - why is an MMORPG different from a single-player one in terms of writing the player's character? Most of the multiplayer stuff is instanced, and based on what I've seen in GW2 it actually has very solid 'single player' content and world. So what is really the difference? Players aren't expecting roleplaying elements and characterisation in a single player game, as she suggests? It is a bit confusing, because her arguement sounded like 'writing for mmo is hard, because people don't want the same' and I guess that applies to every game :D but maybe it's just me being sleepy, it's the mrning and I obviously woke up at 6. T.T
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People losing their jobs over their personal, non-political opinions, because they don't want to take shit during their free time? That is very, very harsh punishment that I just can't find just.
I guess most people who cheer for it never had to duke it out on their own, under debt and without healthcare.
Game companies caving in under some bullshit is a worrisome trend. And people still wonder why voice actors went on strike. It is over this bullshit.
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It's not their opinion, it's their tone.
I can tell you that I'm not agreeding with you and you misinterpreted the topic.
Or I can say go back to the fucking school you degenerate and leave my post alone if you can't even understand it.
Message is same, presentation is not. Being a proper person outside of work environment really should be a bare minimum. Or just say personality =/= interaction, to be half rude and super short. Playing out the "I'm female" card is riridulous, not like other games don't get criticism... especially one that's constructive.
If someone from a dev team talks about their game for 20ish posts on their personal account, they can expect reactions to those 20+ posts. Separating the two accounts starts with the account holder, not with the commenters.
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Did you ever hear about disciplinary action? That what should've happen here, not firing.
I'm personally not really interested in person who got fired, I don't share their opinions..
I care about the precedent, about what it shows to other people in the industry.
There won't be a committee that will tell you that you should "uphold company image" even on Twitter. No, the moment you express different opinion, you will get fucking fired, and who cares that you got rent to pay.
I already live in a police state, and I don't wish whole industries to become like that, even if only out of a greedy desire to make games better. And make no mistake - this incident will make game industry worse.
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I think as WhipCream said above she has likely received prior warning for other activities. I agree this was a harsh punishment if it was the only thing she had done. Losing your temper and saying some rude things can be attributed to having a bad day. But her prior attack on the deceased totalbiscuit (and I'm guessing other incidents behind closed doors) would surely have led to a reprimand. I personally think this last thing was the straw that broke the camels back. As for the bloke that got the sack too, I have no idea what his history is there other than he had worked with them for 13 years.
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The problem with Peter Fries was how he jumped to her aid. It made it look like if ArenaNet condoned her behaviour. And that was very much NOT what ArenaNet wants to be known for.
Jessica Price has a kind of toxic persona who seems to think, that different views are an attack on her being a female (especially in the incident leading to her getting the boot). And she is vocal about that. While having her status as an ArenaNet employee openly visible in her short-bio on Twitter. I think of her as sexist, after reading some of her stuff.
The only chance of ArenaNet to save face after her actions were some drastic measures. Peter kind of got caught in the cross fire. I assume (I don't have any kind of proof for that), that he was fired so that JP cannot pull the "I got fired because I'm a woman, but he as a male was allowed to stay"-card. Which could very well lead to ugly lawyer stuff.
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Good point about the lawyer stuff for sure, I didn't consider that.
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You're both right and wrong to a degree. No someone should not be fired for opinions and views, and at the same time, tone matters, but... Only in specific circumstances. Now if the employee is an open representative of a company, then yes tone matters, but otherwise it does not. Now I personally don't know much about this girl, she just seems to come off as a bit of a cunt (which isn't against the law), but what this whole situation comes down to is... Whether or not her twitter account has ever been used in relation to her job. If it has, then fire her, if not and it's a 100% personal account, then I'd call bullshit on being fired. The few exceptions in the case it's a personal account would come down to if she's an open racist, sexist, etc etc. You wouldn't want an employee who couldn't deal with all other employees and customers equally.
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if the employee is an open representative of a company
Take a look at her twitter description.
"Game producer, writer, editor, howling maenad. ArenaNet Narrative team. Obsessed with lionesses. Salty language. I block often. I won't play demure for you."
I'm fairly certain that counts as being an open representative of the company.
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non-political opinions
So let me get this straight-her whole spiel about how "she's a woman female dev" thats "being oppressed" (pretty much) simply because some poor bastard wanted to have a chat with her and quite telling bull about "hurt manfeels" is somehow "non-political"?
they don't want to take shit during their free time
"How dare these plebs want to have a polite conversation with me about character writing?I don't have to take this shit!"
That is very, very harsh punishment that I just can't find just.
So giving psychopaths on your team that outright attack your consumer base,content creators and company partners the boot isn't "just"?
You do understand that your comment is nothing but disingenuous garbage that has nothing to do with what happened here,right?
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The problem that many of the commenters who disagree with you are having: Your style of writing is very offensive. "Your comment is [...] garbage" is hostility.
Present your views in a more factual tone, instead of slowly degrading to Price's tone. Then more commenters (who were neutral/uninformed before) would see and accept your viewpoint.
Edit: Please take a look at https://www.steamgifts.com/go/comment/mBcUnnT for a better presentation.
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Your style of writing is very offensive
Not really.I just call things what they are and give out facts.No more,no less.And given the lengths these "commenters" went in order to defend two of what are obviously like-minded individuals,I really don't see a reason why I should care about what they consider to be "offensive" (which is apparently everything).
"Your comment is [...] garbage" is hostility.
Nope.Especially since the comment truly is disingenuos garbage that tries to spin this as a case of "poor devs got kicked because twitter opinion".
Present your views in a more factual tone
->implying that I haven't done so already in the topic & while tackling the moronic reality-defying trash that some pissed-off kiddies that wanted to make a mess of themselves offered instead of anything thats worth spit.
instead of slowly degrading to Price's tone
This bit is just plain silly.Then again,I'm apparently somehow worse than her by now so meh-whatever.
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I can badmouth my boss or dance naked in the street while screaming "hey everybody, i'm working for X" and i'll get fired because of it. I don't see why on the internet should be different.
That said, i don't despise her contents, but her tone, which is inappropriate and abrasive judging by her older posts. Her original response could've been worded a lot better, like a standard "thanks for the reply, but i'm not looking for suggestions right now". Besides, if she was "expressing her opinion" then also that guy was doing the same and censoring people because of it is a shitty thing to do, regardless if it's a user or a company doing it.
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virtue signaling for how they bravely supported the asking for some people to be fired from their jobs
I did nothing of the sort,but go on with this sort of intellectual dishonesty.It doesn't make you look like a complete buffoon at all,I'm sure.
for something they said on twitter
Devs attacking content creators of their game & their company's partners is hardly just "something they said".
on their personal accounts
You guys make it too damn easy.
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look at me i'm a cute game partner so you should all obey to me cause i'm above anyone else. that one girl said "manfeels" and called me an asshole from her personal account on social media when i talked to her, she should be fired from her job boohoo
You guys make it too damn easy.
lol pathetic
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Nice fairly obvious shill for Price with reckless abandon there,kiddo.What is especially dumb is that you actually went after the one person that not only did nothing wrong but was polite to a fault and even went so far as to apologize to her by disingenuously claiming that he was basically ordering a mob to get her fired.
And I'm the one thats supposedly "pathetic".Eh,whatever them cockroaches in your skull tell you,bud.I have no reason to care for the dementia of fools.
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This is a bad look for you. You're not "winning" anything, here.
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This is a bad look for you
I'm sure it is-in Oceania,perhaps.And whether or not I look bad to white knight goons & outright shills that are willing to make a complete mockery of themselves for virtually no reason is the least of my concerns.
You're not "winning" anything, here.
Wasn't trying to,doc.
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Nice fairly obvious shill for Price with reckless abandon there,kiddo.
what a shit argument
.What is especially dumb is that you actually went after the one person that not only did nothing wrong but was polite to a fault and even went so far as to apologize to her by disingenuously claiming that he was basically ordering a mob to get her fired.
that's how you totally not white knights and totally not shills portray him
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what a shit argument
Hardly,given how you are trying to bend reality for her.But do keep making yourself look like a complete tard by going full "reality denial" in a fit of pathetic rage,bud.
totally not white knights and totally not shills
So if someone calls scumbags...scumbags,that="white knights" and "shills" to you.Thats...completely incorrect,but so is the rest of your incoherent drivel and pathetic ad homs.
portray him
->implying that thats not the case,LOL.Or perhaps you are actually going to cut the stupid ad-hom bullshit and,say...actually try to prove your point?
Or just,you know-keep whining like a petulant child with that hasn't been spanked enough and giving anyone with something of actual value in their skulls something to laugh about.Just saying.
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Hardly,given how you are trying to bend reality for her.But do keep making yourself look like a complete tard by going full "reality denial" in a fit of pathetic rage,bud.
how so ? btw you should expect a suspension or a ban soon
So if someone calls scumbags...scumbags,that="white knights" and "shills" to you.
read the first post again
Thats...completely incorrect,but so is the rest of your incoherent drivel and pathetic ad homs.
lol
->implying that thats not the case,LOL.Or perhaps you are actually going to cut the stupid ad-hom bullshit and,say...actually try to prove your point?
there's no "ad-hom" from me. the point wasn't him by himself but those using him as an excuse for witch hunt and virtue signaling
Or just,you know-keep whining like a petulant child with that hasn't been spanked enough and giving anyone with something of actual value in their skulls something to laugh about.Just saying.
so apparently i'm also "whining" now. amazing
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how so ?
I'm pretty sure I answered that already in my first to responses to you.If your reading comprehension skills are subpar,thats really not my problem.
btw you should expect a suspension or a ban soon
For what?After all,I literally did nothing wrong.Or is spreading the news about scumbag devs getting canned & drawing the ire of a bunch of salty chumps like you in the process a banable offense now?
read the first post again
Aaand my point still sticks.
there's no "ad-hom" from me
Perhaps you should read your own comments a couple more times.
wasn't him by himself but those using him
You literally claimed that Deroir was actively agitating for Price to be fired.You lied once,now you are lying about the point you were making.
The lengths you went to make a fool of yourself because...reasons,I guess,are unbelievable.Keep diging yourself a bigger hole if that makes you feel better.You have already done yourself in anyway.
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I asssume(!) that he got caught in the crossfire and was kicked too, so that she couldn't pull the gender card at court.
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I asssume(!)
You...assume?Even though the link I have provided clearly shows that he jumped into the fray like a complete idiot which led to him getting burned in the process?
And you claim that I should use a "more factual tone" while pretty much admitting to completely ignoring the provided facts?LOL.
she couldn't pull the gender card at court
Which is an impossible thing to do anyway,since she started this mess by pulling it in a fit of raging lunacy in the first place.No court worth a damn is going to bother much with such a frivolous case.At best,she'll end up like Digital Homicide.
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i really cannot understand why she was not sacked then...
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Surprise surprise, what you post on the internet follows you home. It's time for everybody to accept responsibility on what you say and suffer the consequences for it.
The irony is that her post about TB now can be applied to her, at least for ArenaNet.
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And of course got blacklisted because of this.
CENSORSHIP I SAY, THESE FUCKING CENSORING COMPANIES, POLICE STATE!!!
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My "blacklist" count ballooned to more than half of its size since I posted this thing.Its almost as if the local SocJus Borg Collective didn't appreciate the news about their kind getting forced into an "early retirement" in accordance with the "Actions Have Consequences" principle or something...
Eh,must be my imagination.
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Mine too, frankly I like that they are excluding themselves from my future GAs ;)
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The kindest thing I can say is "I'm glad she's no longer around to keep doing harm."
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Why does everyone keep reposting this everywhere like it was originally their comment?
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She made fun of TotalBiscuits's death https://twitter.com/Delafina777/status/1000045432007938048
Normal people would understand that making fun on a person, just deceased after a long battle with cáncer, leaving behind a widow, with many fans in the Internet community including many customers in her own company, is a really shitty thing to do.
Well, she wasn't normal.
Good riddance
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I understand where it came from. Everyone just seems to post it like it was there comment. Mainly just all the twitter responses and guild wars forum.
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Would it be any different if she was a lead programmer or designer? writers are generally disposable in the gaming industry
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Getting sacked because your behavior in a public space outside your workplace is bad enough to still reflect poorly on your employer and their products ?
No surprise to me. If you make yourself a liability like that, they'll make you stop being a liability. Doesn't matter what your opinion is in that case.
Mind you, I have no idea what happened in the ArenanNet offices, no idea if this is a first offense or a repeat pattern etc. Maybe firing was excessive. But hey, Amrican work-place policies and labour laws - the knees jerk hard enough to launch you out the door, no questions asked.
(In most Eurpoean countries, there's at least some form of labor law that stops you from being fired on the spot unless you left a proven track record of misconduct.)
Also, I really can't muster any respect from people who, when faced with a fairly reasonable question that might challenge their opinion immediately turn to personal attacks based on tangential details. That doesn't prove you're right, it just paints you as a raging loony.
Remember folks, one of the basic rules of debating is "if you attack the person instead of the subject, you've lost the debate".
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because your behavior in a public space outside your workplace is bad enough to still reflect poorly on your employer and their products ?
More specifically, your behavior in a public space on a topic that was directly related to the company [ie, writing an opinion piece about the game and its development] and was presented on a social medium that was laid out to directly reflect your role as an employee of the company. Moreover, it's an open account, which means there's nothing personal or private about it. There's nothing untoward about someone approaching you under those conditions. Which means there's no 'invasion of personal space' considerations that would excuse you from behaving professionally.
You are, most certainly, acting as a representative of your company under those conditions- so attacking one of your company's consumer base without any cause whatsoever [I mean, who the hell gets stupidly, bro-tastically upset over something that effectively breaks down to a very polite, distinctly constructive "Well, what about branching narratives? You didn't mention those, and I feel they adequately resolve the issues you were mentioning."] in full view of countless numbers of other consumers is going to have the same reaction that such behavior has when working non-online jobs.
If a buncha customers walk into the store and say "Hey, your employee is out there, wearing your uniform, telling people to fuck off for no reason whatsoever," then the company is, of course, gonna do something about it (or lose all credibility as a company being able to behave with professionalism). (All the moreso when there's digital evidence of the actions.)
The real issue, of course, is when she started baselessly attributing negative elements to the individual- thus engaging in unwarranted harassment of a customer- and creating new dialogues which had the sole purpose of attacking that individual all over again. By that point, she was engaging in mind-blowingly bad behavior- not just unprofessional, but outright problematic. The last thing a company wants is an employee that engages in targeted, repeated harassments.
While firing may seem extreme (though it's identical to what would happen in most on-site jobs if you behaved in the same manner), the narrative she created to avoid responsibility for her actions suggests that, even without any previous issues from her [of which apparently there were many], she likely clashed with the company when they brought the matter up with them. If you're trying to get your employee to do damage control on their own unprofessional behavior, and they're baselessly yelling at you about discrimination and personal rights and to lay off them, then that's just way too much for a company to be able to deal with.
Not that we know all sides of the matter- but what what we do know is, regardless of how much ArenaNet may or may not have overreacted, they nevertheless had valid cause for such a reaction; Likewise, we know the employee in question is abusive, unstable, and prone to misappropriating real, significant issues to justify her own completely unrelated misbehaviors.
"if you attack the person instead of the subject, you've lost the debate"
This is SG, though. That's the only way certain of our users know how to interact with others. See: This thread.
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Yeah, I've been catching up on Price's past behavior a bit. Her online behavior does suggest she's the type to double down and go out fighting at all times, so it's very likely she herself escalated things beyond repair.
We won't know for sure though, and we never will. Unless the relevant parts of Price's HR files get made public, but that's not going to happen unless this mess somehow results in a court case and relevant quotes end up on the docket. (HR files are confidential material after all).
"if you attack the person instead of the subject, you've lost the debate"
This is SG, though. That's the only way certain of our users know how to interact with others. See: This thread.
I was actually referring to the way Jessica Price responded to Derior. But yeah, these days you can't go anywhere on the internet without running into that sort of behavior.
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Right. All we know is what we've seen, and all we've seen is negative elements on Price's side of things. We can't make any judgments past that. Further, given Price's established behavior of misrepresenting context, it'd be hard to believe any claims she might make against ArenaNet, meaning there's just no grounds for us to believe any scenario where the outcome wasn't justified.
As such, this isn't really a matter of drama, but of "Whelp, someone acted out and got fired. Moving on.". It does however seem to reflect well on ArenaNet, from the vantage point we have; At least, given the modern perspective where all too many developers are actively abusive toward their playerbase, a company giving the appearance of taking a hard stance on conveying appropriate professionalism is appealing.
I was actually referring to
I was making a point that your moral might be lost on a lot of the users here. :P
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I love it when bullshit has consequences.
Meet Jessica Price.A GW writer and,judging by her tweets,a typical SJW sociopath.She was also one of the freaks that danced on TotalBiscuits's grave,so you could say that TB's ghost has struck again.
Anyway,a GW streamer by the name of Deroir wanted to have a convo with her about character writing in an MMORPG.Rather friendly and constructive tweets overall.Nothing wrong there,right?
Well,apparently there was,given how Price went completely ape in response.There was rage.A lot of rage.
Needless to say,people weren't exactly impressed by this rather obvious ragequit.Still,it didn't stop her fellow writer,a certain Peter Fries,from running to her defense and making himself look like a complete moron in the process.
Of course,I'm sure that I've made it obvious that this story has a happy ending.In a rather expected (but still all too rare) turn of events,both got their arses fired as a reward for their stupidity.Good riddance to bad rubbish.
Hope this little karmic tale brightens your day a bit.
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