(aside of our other conflict)
I also thought about it alot of time. There is some little casual comical games that do that, but I have seen no big (story-driven) games that do that, I really wonder why, would've been interested to try a game like that.
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I'm willing to bet it's because it is difficult to make a good story for the character while also following the same rules a lot of writers follow. You're always told to make the main character very likable and/or relatable. Hard to do that for a bad guy, but it has been done so I don't know why people avoid it. Maybe because the game devs cannot use their imagination to make a gameplay for this type of game? Most horror stories go for the generic "run away and survive" plot, but if you're the one trying to hunt people, the genre might not even be horror anymore unless the horror is something else on top of it also trying to kill you like good/evil spirits.
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Like I said, it would likely have to be something else like protective spirits trying to kill you or demon spirits trying to take you to some generic hell or something. It would be hard to make it an actual horror game instead of just some action game, but whomever does it first will probably get a bunch of monies and a blowjob for being original.
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Well, I think the Thief series (referring to Thief 1,2 and 3) did this very well. Although not strictly a horror game, the game has some missions like the Cradle which rather places elements of this game in the horror zone. Despite the fact you are theoretically an antagonist for the rest of the world, the requirement to stay unseen from guards and creatures makes this game can result in some interesting moments.
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It's been done, before. Sometimes you're the bad guy but you don't remember who you are/what you've done, and sometimes it's a split-personality. The horror part comes in because people fear what they don't understand, and they fear what seems to threaten them. As the games progress, you find out that what you fear is actually yourself. Such games require a very talented writer who understands the psychology involved, otherwise, things fall flat at the end.
The most recent example of this kind of twist (that I can recall) is Bioshock.
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I love horror games, so I could go on forever but I'll let other people throw in some stuff. ;)
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I really don't like when people jump in a bandwagon, there's just too many horror-adventure games now. :(
And don't ask what other people like in games of that genre, you'll just end up creating some generic content. Ask yourself what is missing in those games, not what they already have, what can you offer that others didn't.
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I'm just looking for that tiny, litlle thing that's essence of horror games because I'm usually scared of everything :D
My goal is to make something new, i hate that so many games have nothing fresh to offer but i need support from target players :)
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Don't do want CAPCOM did to resident evil, don't put action in it.
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By action I mean explosions and blazing guns everywhere.
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you remember the first time you played resident evil on the psx? you remember the scene where that fucking thing jumps through the mirror and scares the everloving shit out of you? you remember the excitement it caused that a game just nearly made you wet yourself?
include stuff like that in the game. things that happen out of nowhere and just absolutely scare the crap out of you.
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I'd say have a few but don't overdo it. It's always the anticipation of something that scares me.
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The atmosphere, the feeling and the mystery.
It has to make you wanna push forward even if you know you'll most likely scare the hell out of you.
Actually, it should make you wanna get scared.
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Well, I'm a horror fan in general (movies, books, games, etc...).
The common answer is "People like to experience fear without being in danger", and this is true for pretty much any medium, video games included. The great part about video games is that we get to interact with things and so we are more susceptible at getting scared.
For me Silent Hill 2 is the best horror game around. It is the one that do the most important stuff the best. And no, the most important stuff is not scare the shit out of you. Slender scared me, but I still don't think it's a good horror game.
Atmosphere is important, of course, we have to have a sense of despair and loneliness, but it helps if the gameplay helps that and Silent Hill's or Resident Evil's (The originals) gameplay manages to improve with their shaky cameras. Amnesia and Penumbra use the fact that we have no weapons to fight with.
The sound and music are important too. Just look at Silent Hill's OST for a good example.
And in the end, the story. Because all in all, if the game is scary but the story is boring, I won't care.
I think these are all the important points to make a good horror game. The most important being the atmosphere.
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As huge fan of horror genre let me tell you this: we dont like combat, we dont like junpscares, we dont like monsters. We DO like that feeling whne you EXPECT it.. waiting for it, you scare of what CAN HAPPEN.. in other words your own imagination produce most of that feeling for which we like horror. Thats why silent hill - cult. OST, sounds is very important. Style is very important (However graphics in general is not). Feeling that you are weak and cant fight back - i like it.
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+1
Altought i dream of the day horror could use combat/action well.
It bugs me reading 'we don't like combat/monsters' as if it were true for all genre fans; Most fans actually like those things in other games/genres.
The problem thus is not the combat/monster but HOW its made into the horror genre. The main issue is that all games thus far simply put the combat we all know in a horror game, and that doesn't work. It doesn't mean it couldn't work if made differently...
For instance killing the sources of the thread is killing the genre and mood; But it really bugs me when horror games give me no way or option to try, allowing me to at least open a window of chance for a better escape or something like that; Being powerless is a must in the genre, but i think a lot of potential is wasted when any and all confrontation is ditched. I don't want to kill the monsters, not even properly seeing then but man, how much could we gain if we could have the visceral feeling of action... it would actually add a lot(on my view), for instance, it would make their danger more feasible if we could engage and 'feel'(gameplay wise) their thread and danger.
The BIG PROBLEM OF HORROR GAMES: THEY'RE STILL MIMICKING MOVIES
Games are a new mediun, only few decades around. Theres a lot for the medium to evolve(overall), but much more in the horror genre. When i see big horror fans saying things like is how i notice the fans are oblivious to this... i can get that feeling in movies and books. In games theres must be interaction, choices, freedom(when talking about this style). If a game wants us to feel like the person there, the more things we could came up with and do/try like if we were there the better.
Oh forget all that. Take a look on Nosferatu, its a old less know game that was closer to what im talking about. Its not good as horror but in its hardest and with luck(or might i say unluck) i had some nerve-shaking moments there. Theres fighting and killing, but not only a couple of enemies you'd better run then face, the main thing in it was the RANDONESS.
Every building, every load game... you never knew what could be around the corner or stalking you. If that game had some more creative threads, more mood, much less exposition and some twists and turns(a lovecraftian touch for example) the sorts of 'we finish with more questions then answers' it would be a better horror GAME then any you can list.
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It is usually good atmosphere (inventive visuals and music), the feeling of constant danger (tune the gameplay to reach the effect) and a very simple story, but narrated so that it makes you curious to go on. Like you have to give a clear goal, and pave the way to it with bits of information leading up to the final revelation/confrontation. This usually works.
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Well, that depends a LOT on what kind of game you're making or intending to do. As with all genres most people put dozens of different shades in the same bag, and while thats good in general its terribad when discussing a genre or trying to learn from it.
So theres multiple sub 'genres' and kinds of horror, and when we mix that with the varied kinds of gameplay... in short, im left too much in the dark to give any in depth comment beyond the short generic kind you've already readed here (and most of those things obvious).
One of the most important things is what sort of aesthetics and graphic engine you're going after, and of course what kind of gameplay you have in mind. For example, a first person perspective allows some iterations that wouldn't work in other perspectives and vice versa; When graphics are minimal and more left to imagination its easier to achieve certain effects once the players are sucked in (the main reason why older horror games had more impact); that is, the more a game have aestetical fidelity ('realism', 'good graphics') the harder it becomes to extract certain kinds of reactions. For example, a gory effect have greater impact the higher the fidelity, but pretty much everything else becomes harder- the more close to life/recognizeable the graphics are, less the player imagine and more they expect. If a certain scene or thing in the middle of a graphically acurate game don't seens realistic enought it doesn't scare, and generally detracts from the overall effect.
Plus theres certain things you shouldn't touch upon depending on the scope and resources this game will have, as many things in horror depends on characters conveying the right feeling with enought drive; something that should be avoided if you don't count with motion capture for example.
Im sort-of a game designer, just finishing my degree on it and pushing foward a project of my own(but no releases thus far); Add me to steam if you want to chat, i love talking about game development. Plus i have 2 drafts 'waiting to see the light of the day' in the genre; 2 horror games gamebibles that i had put some effort and research into. They're not in english(not my main language) but theres definitly something in them i can share or translate, not to say about references, sources or links.
By the way, what scope were talking here? Full one-man-army indie? A small team? Something already in the works or its all concepts yet? That makes the biggest difference, when designing we must start from size and resources so the whole thing is kept in frame and grounded in reality, its really frustrating nurturing a concept only to see its unfeaseable for the current team, needing to be cut in many parts(risking loosing all shine and delivering a bad half-assed game) or scraped alltogether.
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Here is an advice - as a person who generally dislikes horror adventure games, the series I fell immidiately in love is are the Chzo Mythos (5 Days A Stranger, 7 Days A Skeptic, Tribly's Notes and 6 Days A Sacrifice - in that order). The games won me for three reasons - it's an old-school type of point-and-click adventure game, the atmosphere for a game with 256 colors is phenomenal, and the story is brilliant. I must have replayed the games just for the story's sake at least 5 times. The developer (infamous Ben "Yahtzee" Croshaw, of Zero Punctuation) has stated numerous times that his influences were mainly Silent Hill and a japanese horror adventure game, which I currently cannot remember. I'll never forget in one of his commentaries, he said what in his opinion makes a horror game/movie great. It isn't gore or shock attacks - it's the feeling of the inexplicable. The thing the human mind cannot comprehend or understand. Once you get the player into the mindset that absolutely anything can happen at any moment - that can make a great horror game. I've beaten Sanitarium and played a lot of SH2 - i've never jumped off my seat with fear because a monster popped out of nowhere and scared me, but I've sat on my chair for hours feeling fright I've never felt in my life.
Also - the horror element can be nice, but in my opinion - a memorable and worthwhile story is a must in any horror. The fabula is the most important thing in an adventure game. If the story cannot immerse you in the game, there is no point in the game being a horror, because you will feel nothing playing it.
That's my two cents.
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I adore horror games done well. I feel that the first and most important part is not to neglect any aspect of the game. Audio resources are often lower on the list than graphical development, but audio is an exceptionally strong part of creating atmosphere and tension.
You should also try to think ahead and decide what kind of horror you're making, and what the primary methods of scare are. An awful lot of modern 'horror' could actually be better described as low-grade suspense, action or mystery, which just happens to feature overdone tropes, "screamers" or startle scares, and gorn. Gorn (or "gore porn") is a term used when something substitutes genuine horror for simply adding excessive gore, either in a dumb slapstick fashion, or overly realistic making it more akin to a 'torture movie' which is more about disgust and cringe reflex than full-on horror. Startle scares are simply when a sudden change in the situation causes a 'flinch' reflex from the viewer/player, which causes a brief sting of fake primal fear, but ultimately wastes any built tension. Actual fear is something that you tend to be fully aware of and that clings to you, altering how you behave or perceive. Fear built through a series of startle-scares is only a fear of more startle scares, simply because people don't like to be forced to flinch. That isn't really a fear because of what is happening in the game, that is an apprehension of a twitch reflex. "Screamers" are the most hamfisted version of a startle-scare, trying to overload a person's flinch reflex by adding excessively loud audio and often a full-screen switch in visuals. ANY medium can make use of gorn and startles to fake being a horror, just like any film can fake emotional depth by randomly adding half-assed loved-one abduction or near-rape scenes.
Gore is most effective when it serves a distinct purpose, rather than thrown around for no reason. Overdone gore just becomes "a bunch of red stuff", finely tailored gore becomes "oh GOD that spear really did just get stuck in his abdomen!". Also, do not make death or suffering a cheap animated sideshow. Consider the lack of impact of a cheap action movie where many people get shot and killed, each time yelling "GYAAAARGHAGLHGLH" and then falling in an overly dramatic perfect configuration on the floor, compared to brief low-quality footage of a real gun-related death. Do not mistake the shock factor as being "it's real", it is also infinitely more gruesome because of the process, or lack thereof. There is no double-backflip, no bucket of airborn blood and no long-winded grunty "AVENGE MEEE", there is a gunshot that sometimes sounds more like a 'snap', there is a crumple, sometimes no immediately recognisable blood, and in place of a death scream, there is often a muffled drunken sigh as they -try- to yell in pain but find their bodies are rapidly becoming unresponsive. A little realism in fake gore can dramatically increase its impact. While gorn is often a bad sign, do not be frightened to make death scenes or large player errors result in gruesome happenings. Rather than keeling over to a "YOU DIED YOURSELF DEAD" sign, a brief but detailed animation of the moment of the death throes can provide a much needed sting to keep the player wanting to avoid it on more than just a gameplay level. In Resident Evil 6, death by a biological chainsaw-creature would often result in simply falling over with a grunt and a black screen, or occasionally a badly done decapitation with no real drama behind it. However in Resident Evil 4, being struck and killed by a chainsaw wielding humanoid would cause a very brief show of the chainsaw biting into the player's flesh, quickly chewwing through to the other side, and the head rolling free. If the player was lucky, they would block the chainsaw with the barrel of their weapon and have a brief period to struggle and push the attacker away. Failure caused the gun barrel to be cut in half too. In RE4, the enemy and the weapon felt like a stark, grisly threat the entire time, and the level of death response matched the happenings in combat. In RE6, they were merely a "mandatory death animation, because this is what games do". There is even the chance in RE6 to be impaled and lifted up by the chainsaw, but the lack of suiting drama or detail still made it fall flat. In fact, I suggest you look up videos on youtube of various death montages from the Resident Evil series, and contrast the kinds of impact and attention to detail in each. It is not enough that your character wishes to evade death, the player should also feel the urgency of preserving what they feel is their own life, either through virtue of immersion, or because the immediate death-threat is strong enough to elicit a self-preservation response.
Surprise your audience, but do not startle them overmuch. Some startle-scares can be genuinely good, especially if they are unintentional, but be careful about desensitising them. If you can break the audience's expectations of the limits of the game, you can often catch them off-guard and put them in an uneasy state. Rob them of their comfort zone where you can, but offer them the occasional breather so that they can be re-sensitised to the tension. Imagine having played halfway through the game on certain assumptions of what the game engine can do, only to find your antagonist breaking that assumption and immediately using it against you. Early Resident Evil style games had the assumption that each room was a contained environment that could be freely escaped by the simple use of a door. Imagine that moment of panic when a player is gathering their wits in an cleared room, only to hear the distinct sound of a door being opened, followed by sounds of something searching for them. Imagine the player having become desensitised to a frequently appearing type of monster, that while difficult and deadly, has an easy way of defeating them if tackled correctly... and then the player finds themselves disarmed, or unable to make use of their normal strategy, or placed into an environment where they have to adapt.
The greater part of making a good game is in being able to place yourself within the gamers shoes. Try to remember the things that made you roll your eyes and think "Why would you deliberately annoy us / design it that way?", and do it different. Try to remember the things that had no effect other than to pad the game amount in a boring stretch, and use something different. The moment a group of game developers lose sight of the gameplay experience, is the moment they start to take wild guesses and create a game full of unentertaining happenings just to stretch the playtime. Having 10 minutes of good stuff and 3 hours of tedium is no good. Gamers will forgive you for a lot of things, but rarely will they forgive you for making them wait to be entertained. A mediocre game is easily forgivable if it readily surprises and challenges them. In fact, some excessively flawed games have come to be regarded as great milestones simply because they offered something new, or something noteworthy. The original Silent Hill was considered an incredible horror game despite long-winded exploration and often confusing backtracking and layouts, for instance.
Tension and atmosphere are vital, but on their own are nothing but an empty promise. Timing and pacing are important. The level, frequency and type of the 'scares' must always be considered. Combat must be weighed as not to allow the player to feel too empowered. The characters must be alive in a sense that they seem like fully realised people, not just walking stereotypes and arbitrary "I'm here to die for false impact" units, gamers can smell these things a mile off. There are a million tiny important factors to keep in mind before you even get into dreaming up the characters, locations, themes, story and potential novelties. Oh yes, the novelties. Even horror games can benefit from having a slightly unique take on things. It could be an overarching enemy theme, or a specific enemy that is particularly feared or gruesome. It could be a weapon or a gameplay mechanic. If you have a little something that makes you stand out without looking like you're trying to be a special snowflake, that is always a bonus.
Sorry for rambling like this, but horror is a complex and often badly done subject (and a passion of mine).
There is simply too much to cover, and for everything I just said? A lot of it comes down to a kind of intuition. Perhaps try building small mock-up games with placeholder materials to get a feel for what kind of scares you like best, and what you feel you can execute the best. Some people have a great affinity for psychological horror, where your 'enemy' may not even be a physical or immediately tangible thing, or your antagonist may not be physically hostile (yet). A zombie-vampire running after you with a knife can be intense, but a ghost that floats an inch behind you, unshakeable, making occasional death-rattle noises and gesturing in a manner you can't tell is an attempt at guiding or threatening you? Yeah. Others realise that a purer kind of horror just won't work for them, so go for fuller hybrids like action-horror or adventure-horror. Imagine how Amnesia would have turned out if they instead added more enemies, scattered ammo drops, and occasional firearms? You just have to find what you think works for you. Be flexible, try to be a little original, surprise your audience (but not always startle), aim for a strong response but not necessarily with by using the maximum of effort, and above all : Don't be afraid to admit when something isn't working and needs to be re-thought and re-done. A game that is pretending that it is scary according to what an executive designer says "should" be, despite all participants knowing better? Yeah. There is nothing worse than a horror that causes it's audience to laugh.
Again, sorry for the babbling. Good luck with your project!
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Oh... yes.
And the best way you can learn, is simply by being a fan. When you run short on inspiration, or you can't quite work out -why- a specific moment doesn't seem to be clicking, try breaking out some horror movies or creepy games, and after your initial view/play, go back and try to dissect -why- it worked. Failed horror-hybrid games often have obvious flaws that got overlooked by the designers who were undoubtedly swamped by the creation process. Sometimes it's too much combat. Sometimes it's too little combat and then having a 'struggle for life' scenario appear unexpectedly. Was it a quicktime event? Was it a lack of the player's ability to respond? Was it the fact that combat simply didn't belong in that scenario/game? Was the gore overstated? Was there too much or too little dialog? Were there too many characters in a scene? Was there too little? Was the type of atmosphere simply a bad match for the effect you were going for? Did the player become desensitised? Was the scene predicted or too transparently staged? Did another recent scene have a negative effect on this one?
Trying to 'max out' the player's response is kind of like playing a puzzle game where you have a million little multi-coloured sliders, and every time you adjust one, three others move. Then on top of this, you have to consider that not all players react or feel the same. How are you going to effect as many as possible without over-reaching and making a messy "a little bit of everything" product?
I'm... I'm not helping am I? XD
Just remember to take the time to experience it yourself. You may not be able to truly play your own horror game, as you already know it inside out, but refer to other media. Hell, have your team secretly mock up tiny scenarios or rooms, and then get everyone to play each other's micro-work to see how you think it'll play out. Take time to sit back and scribble concept art so you have a good pool of ideas to toy with. You don't need to be a professional grade artist, even half-stick doodles just to archive the things you came up with in your headspace. The first step is to be inspired, to think "Yes, THAT is totally going in", and the second is not to lose sight of the good bits while you're converting it into code.
...
Okay I'm stopping now. :P
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Hi guys,
I'm developing game and i need your help! I'm looking for your opinions about horror/adventure games.
What do you like in those genres? What makes Amnesia/Syberia/Dead Space/Sanitarium/Silent Hill good? Say me about things you want to see in games like that and what's very common thing in those genres but you don't like it?
I hope for long, amazingly deep and full of awesomeness answers or even for short and simple but honest :)
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