Which OS is better for games?
Windows 10 supports DX12, 7 doesn't. Whether this matters to you would depend on the games you play and the hardware you have.
Comment has been collapsed.
Well, it does make Windows 10 de facto better. It just doesn't make it better in comparison to a theoretical Windows 7 with DX12.
Comment has been collapsed.
DX12 does jack shit at the moment.
And also, W7 is capable of supporting DX12. It's MS that made a conscious decision not to include it. If anyone cared, if it was worth it, a hack would be found.
Comment has been collapsed.
Seems wrong to me on both counts. In particular the second part. DX12 requires a new driver model that's not supported in 7. Sure, it's possible to back-port such things, but that's pretty much equivalent to providing a new OS kernel, which isn't logical to assume would happen.
Comment has been collapsed.
Oh please. The same thing was about about DirectX10 for XP. Guess what, it was nowhere near as complicated, and the only reason why it never came out is because by the time Alky got around to it, XP was obsolete. While his project is not directly DX10, it uses the same libraries, and works the same way.
This is planned software obsolescence, not an engineering problem.
Comment has been collapsed.
I'm sure it's possible to implement DX10 over OpenGL, DX12 over Vulkan, at least largely. The problem is that it's complex enough that the excuse of 'by the time he got to it' is just that, it was simply hard to do right. Wine still struggles with it.
And sure, in a sense it's a planned obsolescence, but in practice Microsoft gave a free upgrade to Windows 10 to all Windows 7 owners, so it not only gave DX12 but everything else, so it's rather the opposite: user selected obsolescence.
Comment has been collapsed.
There were many reasons not to jump onto W10, like stability, compatibility or privacy issues (and all 3 are still there), not just the fact that there was or wasn't a free upgrade.
For example, very specialised software my girlfriend uses for work just won't cooperate with W10, and it's the kind of software that costs 5000$ per key and doesn't have any competition, so... staying with W7 was not a hard decision.
Comment has been collapsed.
Obviously, but I still see this particular instance as a lot less "planned obsolescence" than a normal upgrade cycle. It's kind of like a special edition game that you don't like, and was given for free. You can choose the original, you can choose the new one, but you can't really complain that the dev didn't put your particularly desired features into the old version while leaving the others out. I mean, sure, you can and would complain :), but the moral outrage there is just not all that justified.
With Windows 10, at least you got it for free, and you're not forced to use it. You can use 7 and continue to 10 in the future, if you want. I upgraded my HTPC to 10 three times. First time the nForce drivers just didn't work (network wasn't working, don't remember what else). I reverted, found custom nForce drivers, reinstalled 10. Things worked better, but not everything. I reverted (and 7 no longer worked as well as before). Eventually after recently upgrading to a Pentium G4560 and installing 10 from scratch (7 wouldn't boot with the new CPU), it works very well. I was worried maybe my Windows 7 Ultimate key won't work, but it did.
Comment has been collapsed.
"Obviously, but I still see this particular instance as a lot less "planned obsolescence" than a normal upgrade cycle."
.... DX12 is not in Windows 7 because Microsoft decided to block it, not include it, NOT because users upgraded to another OS. What kind of logic is that?
No, your special edition analogy is idiotic. Those are different operating systems, with different flaws and advantages, not versions of the same game. Sorry.
"With Windows 10, at least you got it for free, and you're not forced to use it."
Both points are very much debateable.
I'm not going to respond after this. Pointless. You don't understand the meaning of most words and terms you use.
Comment has been collapsed.
DX12 is not in Windows 7 because it would have required Microsoft to do extra work to include it on an OS version that it no longer supports. That would likely have taken several man-years to implement. Instead it gave away for free a new version containing all the updates. This is standard practice for software (except for giving the new version for free). Microsoft isn't unusual in releasing new version and stopping support for old ones. There's nothing particular strange with this, though I'm assuming you're not a developer so this looks strange to you.
Those are different operating systems, with different flaws and advantages, not versions of the same game.
You must not be familiar with the likes of Sleeping Dogs Definitive Edition and the like. Read about it, it might explain why I used this analogy.
The main problem with the discussion is that you assume that the problem is on my side, instead of understanding that you need some more knowledge to understand what I'm saying. I'm assuming you're intelligent enough and can understand what I'm saying, but you unfortunately prove me wrong.
Comment has been collapsed.
But Windows 7 is still supported, though only updates. Also, they could have put DirectX 12 on Windows 8.1, since that's still fully supported.
Instead, they chose to make it available only on Windows 10, and alienate the other users.
Comment has been collapsed.
Screw me for responding anyway, but here goes.
Actually, due to their architecture, making DX12 NOT work on Windows 7 and 8 was extra work. It was purely a business decision to boost W10 numbers.
"You must not be familiar with the likes of Sleeping Dogs Definitive Edition and the like."
/facepalm... W10 is not a remaster of W7, it's an entirely new product. It's more like Darksiders and Darksiders 2, rather than Darksiders and Darksiders Warmastered. Beat that into your skull.
Alright, no more violations. I'm not responding to this sillyness anymore.
PS: DX12 was already "hacked" into Windows 7 64-bit by some Russian group. It supposedly works (various reports from people of various languages). I'm not going to check, I don't value DX12 at all, currently it's not worth it.
Comment has been collapsed.
I know everyone likes to call it a 'free' upgrade. And sure, there is no monetary cost. But I still think the privacy issues and the lack of control given to users is a very real cost. My biggest gripe with Win10 was when it uninstalled both python and classic shell on me, without warning or prompt, during one of the big 'fall updates'.
I realize those are essentially 'updating to another version of windows internally' and all that. But a) I have never had an OS upgrade remove third-party software before and I was extremely pissed off about that and b) It is not hard to front-load changes like that and check for that kind of thing BEFOREHAND, giving the user a notification screen and letting them opt-out or delay installation... or at the very least, just giving them a freaking heads-up. And I say that last part as a programmer who has worked with installers and even some with Windows Shell code (the publicly documented parts anyway).
My solution was to revert all my Windows 10 installs back to Win 7 and switch anything where Windows wasn't really needed over to Linux. Not saying it was easy or even that it would be something the average user would be able to do but god did it feel great to give those greedy MS execs the big double bird salute (especially after them having laid off Barnacules from the Nerdgasm youtubes). To be clear, I don't hate MS but I do hate how they run things.
FWIW, I also had many many other issues under Win10 in the several months I had been using it, that I never had under Win7. Frequent bluescreens despite a PC capable of running Witcher 3 and Oculus DK2 with updated drivers for all hardware including graphic card. Bad support for Windows Speech Recognition under Win10. Really don't like the Store/Metro/Modern apps, of which most DX12 stuff at the time had been restricted to (looking at you, Gears or War).
Comment has been collapsed.
DX12 is becomming irrelevant because more and more devs are using Vulkan since Vulkan isn't locked to W10. Not to mention Vulkan tends to give better performance than DX12.
Comment has been collapsed.
Do you have any proof of this? So far I've seen more DX12 support than Vulkan and I haven't seen any comments about Vulkan being faster, so I'd be happy for some references.
Comment has been collapsed.
For Vulcan games: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_games_with_Vulkan_support
For DX12 games: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_games_with_DirectX_12_support
Roughly the same amount of support thus far (not counting MS published titles) .
Comment has been collapsed.
There are only 16 titles, 4 of them has "Support planned" status, one of the games is Quake from 1996. :(
Comment has been collapsed.
Since someone already posted you links for the supported games, I only going to link these tests: http://www.anandtech.com/show/11223/quick-look-vulkan-3dmark-api-overhead
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2016/02/vulkan-benchmarks-a-boost-for-amd-and-nvidia-but-theres-work-to-be-done/
It ain't a huge difference, but it's something.
Also, I did NOT say Vulkan is more populair than DX12. I said that it's gaining traction (meaning more devs are starting to use it). Which might make it more populair than DX12 in a few years.
Comment has been collapsed.
the sad truth is, so far Vulkan is completely irrelevant. it has potential, but nobody uses it.
Comment has been collapsed.
"nobody uses it". Did you miss the 2 wikilinks jiggakills posted above you? The support is roughly the same.
Comment has been collapsed.
i know that list very well. some of the games are very old, some are not even released yet - almost none of the current games support Vulkan. i stand by what i said. so far, Vulkan is irrelevant (and btw, i said that without referring to DX12 in anyway).
Comment has been collapsed.
With Vulkan, I don't have to run Windows 10 just to play my games. I can even use Linux to do so, as well as MacOS.
So how is it irrelevant?
Comment has been collapsed.
there are like 5 games out of thousands that use Vulkan. that is why it is still irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. why do people not understand that. i have nothing against Vulkan. in fact, i would like it to be the number one library out there (because of the platform-independancy alone). but right now it's barely ever used by anyone. i honestly expected more.
Comment has been collapsed.
If Vulkan is irrelevant, isn't DirectX 12 also the same due to how many stuff use it? On top of that, it has issues that Vulkan doesn't.
Comment has been collapsed.
yes, it is as irrevelant as Vulkan right now (well - not quite, since there are more games for DX12). i never said anything else. in fact, i even posted this earlier to make this clear: and btw, i said that without referring to DX12 in anyway
Vulkan is great in theory, but in praxis barely anyone uses it. that's just the reality right now.
Comment has been collapsed.
(If you notice the games with DX12, around 1/3 of them are published by Microsoft, so that shouldn't count.) Apart from that, nothing to add.
I don't deny. Give both a few years, and we'll see where they go.
Comment has been collapsed.
why shouldn't MS games count? sure, those are more likely to use MS's own API. but is that really relevant for us as customers? isn't the only important thing how many games support one API or another, and how much impact it has on our gaming life?i think those should absolutely count, if we want to talk numbers.
what shouldn't really count are all the games that have "Support planned", and all the Android-only games. if you add up the games that really support Vulkan right now and are for PC, you get 6 games. just 6! not a lot, honestly. if you count the DX12 games, they add up to 20. and even if you add Microsoft published games (which again: i don't see how that is fair), you still have way more DX12 than Vulkan games. no number-wise, DX12 wins by a big margin.
I think what is really important is the potential of both APIs. and so far, DX12 has shown very little potential, while Vulkan has immense potential (best example: Doom). the developers just need to start using it. because right now they don't. maybe the popularity of Star Citizen helps with that...
Comment has been collapsed.
Why shouldn't they count? Because unlike the developers that have a choice to not use DirectX, they practically don't have one. Get what I'm saying? It's like counting how many games that use CryEngine, and including EA published games in that count.
Naturally, Support planned games shouldn't count, and neither should Android-only games since we're just counting PC.
Total number of PC Vulkan games: 9 so far
Total number of PC DX12 games: 13 so far(No Microsoft published stuff)
So while not quite the amount compared to DX12, it's still more than just the 6 you claim. This is because Ashes and Star Citizen are confirmed to be on the Vulkan route, or have already started since release. Even subtracting Star Citizen, that's still 8 games that have Vulkan, 2 more than the 6 you said. Number wise, excluding the Microsoft stuff, DX12 is leading as you said, and I don't have any objections.
The thing about potential is moot, as both have similar performance on modern hardware. Now, the real issue is mostly with compatibility, as we see that DX12 is only limited to Windows 10(cause Microsoft) and Xbox One(all generations) while Vulkan is usable on MacOS, Windows(Windows 7/8.1 included) and Linux. As an added bonus, it is also compatible with the PS4 and other stuff that use AMD hardware. As a developer, which option is better for you? The answer is pretty obvious by now.
Comment has been collapsed.
ms doesn't have a choice in their own programming decisions?
idk about inclusion/exclusions at all for them, not getting into that debate cause i don't care. but that part i gotta say doesn't make much sense.
Comment has been collapsed.
If you're Microsoft and your developers wanted to use Vulkan despite you already having DX12, would you agree to it? This is a competitor's product you're talking about here btw.
If you mean the part about which option is better, I'll explain.
Vulkan can run on way more systems than what DX12 can do. When you're making games, the important factor is the people that play your game, unless you're one that solely focuses on profiting from cards. Between at least 4 platforms(MacOS, Windows, Linux, PS4) on Vulkan side compared to 2(Windows 10, Xbox One) on DX12 side, which has the better amount of people? If you can answer this, you would roughly know where I'm going with this point.
Comment has been collapsed.
i guess i get your point, but it's still a choice. just like they have the choice to do both, but don't.
Comment has been collapsed.
Microsoft does have the choice, and chose not to.
On the other hand, the developers don't. They instead have to listen to corporate orders.
That's how the world works.
And before I forget, there's only two choices worth picking right now for current gen technologies, Vulkan and DX12.
Comment has been collapsed.
sorry for the very late answer...
how do you get to 8/9? one of us definitely can't count. xD
ok, let's list 'em:
- Quake
- Dota 2
- Rust
- The Talos Principle
- Doom
- Mad Max
- Serious Sam Fusion 2017
that's 7 (i forgot Mad Max, because it's only for the Linux version). everything else is either Android or not out yet. so even if you don't count the stuff published by MS (which again, i find irrevelant), Vulkan loses by a lot.
Comment has been collapsed.
Vulkan games: Quake, Dota 2, Rust, The Talos Principle, Ashes of the Singularity, Doom, Mad Max(Linux, but still PC), Serious Sam Fusion 2017, Star Citizen. That's the 9 games for PC.
So as I said, 9 vs 13 non-Microsoft.
Comment has been collapsed.
Ashes of the Singularity has "Support upcoming". so it doesn't count (yet). Star Citizen is not out, and even the pre-alpha you can play right now doesn't have Vulkan support yet. so that also doesn't count.
so, that's 7 vs. 13 (without MS published titles), or 7 vs. 20 (with them).
Comment has been collapsed.
It says Support upcoming, but it's confirmed 1 month back. So it should be added to Support confirmed instead, which makes it a game in the list. Star Citizen on the other hand I did mention can be taken out, as support for it isn't confirmed 100% yet. Also, here is a link to the official post about why Vulkan is confirmed and not just upcoming. They already have most of the stuff worked out, as quoted below:
"The Vulkan work is largely completed. However, it won't be until June before it's released as there is a ton of compatibility and optimization work to be done given the game's popularity as a benchmarking tool for high end graphics."
So as I said, 8 games with Vulkan, 9 if you decide to include Star Citizen.
Comment has been collapsed.
ok then, let's settle with 8. ^^ didn't know that Ashes had support already. i was going solely by the wikipedia list. still a pretty small list, sadly.
Comment has been collapsed.
Windows 10 has performance improvements over Windows 7. That's basically all it boils down to. I do wish I could make the move to linux though, maybe one day.
Comment has been collapsed.
Windows 10 has stability issues with games that Win 7 doesn't have, and a number of games require(d) updates to be compatible with Win 10, and not all may have received those yet (though it seems most have, by now). In the end, however, as perrolijo indicates below, it'll more often boil down to 'some games will be improved with Win 10, and others will function better in Win 7, and which those games are may in fact differ person to person'.
Given that, the real questions are, "Do you have any plans to play DirectX12-exclusive games? Do you have any other reasons to specifically want to use Win 10? If the answer to both questions is "No", then why force yourself to deal with the notoriously troubled Win 10?" Past preferences for specific games, or the OS itself, there's really no reliable, inherent benefit or loss as far as gaming goes.
Comment has been collapsed.
"Notoriously troubled Windows 10?" Has there ever been a version of Windows that was not "notoriously troubled?"
Q: What if Bill Gates had a dime for every time Windows Vista crashed... ?
A: Oh, wait a minute, he already does!
Comment has been collapsed.
"Has there ever been a version of Windows that was not "notoriously troubled?"
Yes, XP and 7.
Comment has been collapsed.
Technically, ME, Vista, 8, and 10 were the only ones that were received with mostly negative considerations.
But yeah, XP and 7 were probably the most favored of all. Of course, part of that could just be their longevity- Microsoft had XP out for nearly a decade- and 7 came close to that, having been released in 09- while earlier Windows versions generally were out for only about 3 years each (less, if you include NT/2000 releases) before getting functional upgrades. In that, ME and 8 failing were what made XP and 7 stand out, and user considerations presumably shifted (from a perspective of considering OS updates a positive) toward favoring maintaining a steady OS.
The problem of course is that Satya Nadella remains CEO of Microsoft, and he allows Joe Belfiore and Terry Myerson to continue to mismanage Windows 10- the ever-escalating upgrade debacle was certainly the early highlight, but it reflected a steady stream of consumer-unfriendly sabotages and general disregard for quality and professionalism that continues to trouble Windows 10 up to this point (another clear highlight being the mess with the Anniversary update (completely stripping away certain OS management functions, such as manual update scheduling), and faulty updates in general).
Frankly, now would be the ideal time for someone to roll out a Linux Distro that can properly compete with Windows.. but by this point, I've kinda given up hoping for Linux to really compete. And I've always found Apple OSes to be far too user-unfriendly to be worth the time, even if they did manage better Windows game compatibility.
Comment has been collapsed.
The reason why XP and 7 were supported and used for so long is because they were much less problematic than their counterparts, and for that reason, much more popular.
Comment has been collapsed.
I don't recall any significant problems with 3.2, 95, and 98, other than the basic issues that came with DOS integration.
My point was that if ME and Vista and 8 hadn't failed, we'd still have adhered to a roughly once-per-three-years OS update schedule, as before XP. Thus, it may not be that XP and 7 were that much better than the early Windows releases [relative to the time of their release], just that we weren't given good alternatives, and thus we got comfortable [with OSes that actually worked].
I mean, that doesn't apply to businesses, for whom regular OS upgrading is often far more hassle than it's worth, but I recall users picking up the newest Windows versions pretty readily, until ME dropped.
The fact that XP and 7 were so stable and user-friendly only helped emphasize the matter.
//
Unless of course your reply is just agreement with what I said before "In that, ME and 8 failing were what made XP and 7 stand out", in which case I suppose you can ignore the above. :P
Comment has been collapsed.
Yeah, I just wanted to add to your reply, not disagree on anything.
Comment has been collapsed.
Survey says...?
BZZZZZZZZZZT!!!
As a person who had both XP and 7 (Pro) from the beginning, I can verify that they were just as problematic as other versions upon launch. Over time, however, they became fairly reliable. Windows 7 recovered better from crashes and lockups than XP did, but they both were buggy up until being phased out.
Windows Vista was probably the worst version I've ever experienced. Even Windows NT 3.1 was better.
Comment has been collapsed.
That's your opinion. Maybe you're misremembering things? Maybe I am?
Anyway, the biggest criticism of XP was that it was vulnerable to viruses and had mediocre DOS virtualization. Oh, and the introduction of "Windows Genuine" program... which wasn't an issue if you had a legit copy.
And I don't even remember ANY problems with Windows 7 on launch.
I agree about Vista, though.
Comment has been collapsed.
Well, I only know Windows history from my perspective. I worked as a Computer Consultant up until Windows 8 came out. That means I spent a lot of time "fixing" Windows problems. I reinstalled Windows XP Pro on my own computer at least once or twice a year from the time it was introduced until I finally made the switch to Windows 7. This was because of the OS's inability to keep itself "clean" and the need for regular driver updates.
If you were not building your own computers and installing your own OS, your experience would be considerably different than mine.
I started Windows 7 with the pre-release client, which was full of kludges, but even by the time the OS launched officially, there were still unresolved issues. Most were connected to the lack of updated drivers and the incompatibility with older software (including many games). Since that time, however, fixes to Win7, updates of older games, and third-party workarounds have dealt with most such cases. Even so, Windows 7 would still crash every once in a while, usually due to driver issues resulting in system service exception errors.
Comment has been collapsed.
If you worked as a consultant no wonder you have memories full of issues. You poor soul...
I did build all of my PCs on my own, I haven't faced many issues. I think I went through all Windows since 98. Damn. I had to be 8 years old tops when I built my first PC. What the hell?
Comment has been collapsed.
Eight years old! D
I eventually gave up that job, but oh, so many stories to tell....
Comment has been collapsed.
good joke.
maybe you are to young to remember how xp and 7 started (or you just forgot about it).
xp without any service pack was the hell on earth.
When 7 started everyone hated the new optic and all that stuff. People claimed that 7 is the worse and everyone should still use xp or win2000
Comment has been collapsed.
I'm probably older than you are... anyway, I remember the launch of W7 very well, because I had a shit PC and I also had many concerns about upgrading... I remember being happy that I had no problems whatsoever. Sure, people disliked the Aero, but it could be disabled with two or three clicks... people didn't want to change, after using XP for so long, but there weren't that many coherent complaints.
I remember Windows XP less clearly, and this is why I went on Google and limited search results to 2001 and 2002. It got nowhere near as much flak as Vista, 8, 10, ME or 2000.
Comment has been collapsed.
Best Stable OS from experience is DOS currently used FreeDOS 1.2 from time to time beace flashing GPU under windows 7 or 10 have higher chance for failure and take 20x more time ;)
Anyway I using now Windows 10 and still some MMO games have problem with using only 1 thread and required manually re-adjust via task manager to use all cores :(
Comment has been collapsed.
I dunno, I had no issues with win 3.1. Of course it was basically a GUI for dos, so.....yeah.
Comment has been collapsed.
My experience with Windows 10 has been far different from what you are describing. Windows 7 was a great operating system but I had a lot of trouble running old games on it, the majority of which run fine on 10 without much faffing around on my part at all.
Unfortunately the one thing that is always true with computers is that everyone seems to have a different experience.
Comment has been collapsed.
Windows 7 was more backward-compatible than Windows 10. Of all the Windows versions, however, Windows 98 SE had the best backward-compatibility.
Comment has been collapsed.
just to clarify... was or is?
total +1 to 98SE tho ^^
Comment has been collapsed.
I meant "on release," but I would guess that it is still more backward compatible than Windows 10. With all of the adjustments made by software companies, however, it's still possible to play most games, even old ones.
Comment has been collapsed.
Fallout 3 and Bioshock 1 work without problems for me in Windows 10. I had to make 1000 tricks to make them work in Windows 7.
Comment has been collapsed.
They also worked for me on W7 without any tricks required, but failed on W10... It's also depending on hardware in combination with the OS, as some hardware setups don't like W10 and some don't like W7... With everything combined, it's sometimes like you're playing Russian roulette and if you win you can play, if you lose you blow up your computer and things crash. If you ask me, it's more or less even, depending on what you're trying to do and what your setup is.
Comment has been collapsed.
Win10 is better overall. But not because of their last update (creators update).
For me the only downside about Win10 is all the spying thing it comes with it. But hey guess what ? Win7 was pretty much the same in that regard.
Thankfully you can disable most of this shit with something like DWS (read carefully if you want to use this though).
On the other hand, if you care that much about your privacy you simply don't use Windows at all.
Comment has been collapsed.
Win7 was pretty much the same in that regard
It wasn't, they had to make special "let us spy like we do on Wni10" update.
On the other hand, if you care that much about your privacy you simply don't use Windows at all.
But that's pretty much true.
Comment has been collapsed.
Windows 10 can't support my Romance of Three Kingdom XI Power Up Kit Edition, i regret upgrading my Windows 7 T.T
Comment has been collapsed.
Is that a hacked fan translation of the JPN release?
I have the normal Western base game release of XI I bought on GG and it works fine on Win 10.
Comment has been collapsed.
Right, the JPN release, the western release don't have the Power Up Kit and missing lots of content T.T
Comment has been collapsed.
Win10, overall. Everything is a tiny bit faster thanks to how the OS itself is faster, but DX12 is the final decider. Granted, still not many games support it, and only a handful require it.
Comment has been collapsed.
Yeah, you can turn it off but then you can't use your computer :(
Comment has been collapsed.
why is it i'm imagining toddlers versus elderly's?
we got the tattle-tail toddlers versus the less reliable and more brittle elderly's. you mine as well deal with the tattle-tail, cause there isn't much life left in the elderly's anyways.
Comment has been collapsed.
I'm not a brittle elderly (78)! And I'm full of life. Grrrrrrrrr!!!!!!!. Take that back sir or I'll attack you with my walker. Lol. But really, I'm into games but I found Windows 10 (way back when) was full of glitches so I backed out of it to wait for when they had worked out the bugs better. I'm working with Windows 7. Still waiting on 10 to debug itself more.
Comment has been collapsed.
fair enough, it's a horrible analogy in those regards. ^^
but at this point win7 is only going to be supported until 2010 2020*, so people should at least start to learn the ins and outs of the newer operating system imo. once it's all learned, practically anything other than privacy settings that is undesired on it can be altered or disabled. windows 10 is not nearly as matured as windows 7 ofc but as far as gaming there isn't a whole lot of difference really.
edit: i live inside linux os when i'm not gaming though, so it's kinda hard for windows to annoy me since i rarely see it.
Comment has been collapsed.
For the benefit of other readers, I just wanted to point out that the support will end 2020.
As always I guess the choice of OS comes down to what software one wants to run. If it's just for gaming, win 10 seems fine.
Comment has been collapsed.
Many of my games don't work anymore with Windows 10, I never had any issues with Windows 7.
If you're playing newer games Windows 10 might be technically better, even though I don't see a difference between the two in that case ^^
Comment has been collapsed.
odd. it's "compatibility" should work much better then in win7. have you tried?
Comment has been collapsed.
the problem being that windows 10 has a different way of reading disks and for safety reasons won't accept older game disks unless you copy files from windows 7 into your windows 10 and go through a lot of trouble and despair xD
Comment has been collapsed.
That is incorrect. I was even able to play games like BLOOD and Shogun, which Windows 7 did not like, on Windows 10 perfectly fine.
Comment has been collapsed.
Huh, I only have german proof for that issue, but i can try finding something in english. For Age of Mythology at least me and 3 of my friends all had this problem until we copied windows 7 filed onto windows 10.
from reading over this fast this should explain the issue we had http://windowsreport.com/age-of-mythology-windows-10/
Comment has been collapsed.
have you checked the windows 10 "smartscreen" settings? you can define everything as "warn" only and you should be able to work
Comment has been collapsed.
I don't have a problem anymore, it's working fine with the windows 7 files in there ^^
just had to get the programme the disks rely on from my old computer with windows 7
Comment has been collapsed.
Win10 has generally had better compatibility with very old games and games intended for Win8, but games in-between at least used to need updates to become compatible with Win10. Like, I had a few Steam installs that worked fine on my Win7 rig, but not on my Win10 one, until they reported getting patches to resolve things. I imagine a lot of compatibility issues were fixed through core Win10 updates, as well- certainly, I haven't seen any recent issues, and I was having issues with like, 1 game in 3 early on.
In fact, as I recall, most of the issues were DirectX-based, with Win10 trying to utilize newer DX where it shouldn't, essentially trying to run 11 and 12 where it needed to run 9 or 10 (due, I believe, to a quirk in how Windows Automatic Updates was configuring DirectX). Which of course means now that whatever quirk was causing that has presumably been fixed, there may no longer be any noticeable compatibility issues.
Still, I still get instability issues with games in Win10 that I never got over on my Win7 install, so there do seem to be some lingering problems regardless.
Comment has been collapsed.
If you have an SSD, i think it's normal that you couldn't find any difference. :)
Comment has been collapsed.
Up YOU GO, I see no difference. Windows 10 have few annoying bugs tho.
Comment has been collapsed.
Also Windows 10 has some serious privacy issues and it's getting worser with every update. That's why i'm using Windows for gaming only. I don't even use Windows for graphic design too anymore, Wacom has Linux support and Krita has improved so much.
Comment has been collapsed.
I'm not sure how many games from my library are Linux compatible. I had few tries to switch to Linux, but got annoyed by lack of games (it was before STEAM started to promote it), and problems with finding programs I need. I was using Windows 7 till March. Then I switched to Windows 10. Everybody talk about security where Your phone does get even more information than anything else.
It's just funny to see how google knows where I am, shows me reviews of shops before I enter, and asks me for photos of locations.
If You want privacy then You need to stop using any technology.
Comment has been collapsed.
Sadly so many games still don't have Linux support, but before that there are still GPU driver issues at Linux. I don't know when will it be fixed. Nobody knows. The only solution for me is dual booting. Windows 7 is fine for now but time will come and Microsoft will kill it like the others. Eventually i'll use Windows 10. But doesn't matter for me since i use it only for gaming. (But sometimes still it can be really annoying though.)
Well, in using technology you have choices. Google tracks you but not DuckDuckGo (silly name :). Android (which is still Google) using your information for ads (and much more) but not Lineage OS (formerly Cyanogenmod). People like Richard Stallman don't even use wi-fi in their homes. (That's too much for me for example, but sometimes i'm thinking about it). Also people have different type of concerns about privacy (most people don't even care and that's the real problem). At least you can control which information you give by choosing the applications you use. Open source is the key.
P.S.
Living in an isolated island is still a choice. ^^
Comment has been collapsed.
Windows 7 was godly compared to Windows 10. I'm regretting I took the "free" upgrade.
Comment has been collapsed.
I didn't take the free upgrade and bought it for 80€ later because it was recommended to me. Feel my regret!
I don't like dis interface q.q
Comment has been collapsed.
People like you have it the worst - you paid to be spied upon and to get ads.
At least people who took the free upgrade knew they pay with their own souls, you had to add money to the deal :(
Comment has been collapsed.
You could still use free update... using the "assistive technologies" way.
https://www.cnet.com/how-to/microsoft-windows-10-free-upgrade-offer-assistive-features/
You have to go through their webpage, accept the terms and voila!
Comment has been collapsed.
I got a complete new computer and needed an OS. Dumb me thought I'd keep Windows 7 on my laptop in case I ever need it again and just got Windows 10 without trying it first because my friend heavily recommended it. I hated it though. Slowly getting used to it now, after a few months :P
Comment has been collapsed.
If you haven't heard of it, I recommend you check out Classic Shell
Comment has been collapsed.
I can always just put Windows 7 and the Service Packs back on my machine, that's not the issue.
The issue is that I took the upgrade in the first place and do not have enough room on other drives to back up my data right now.
If I did, I'd be back to Windows 7 in a couple hours.
Comment has been collapsed.
The rollback period initially expired after 30 days after upgrading. Then, it was reduced to 10 days. After that period- which has long, long since passed by now for everyone who took the free upgrade- the option to rollback was permanently removed from your copy of Win10, and the backup folder was deleted.
As such, there's no way to revert back [directly through the OS], even if you manually backed up the folder in question before Microsoft force-deleted it (as the downgrade functionality is no longer available for you, regardless). As such, your only option would be to use a backup program and then do a clean install of the original OS [>>].
(As I recall, the revert option still lists in the settings menu, but if you click on it, it'll give you an error message stating that it has expired.)
(Interesting side-fact, the Win10 upgrade is tied to your OS's serial key [or the computer, if you upgraded from an OEM copy of Windows], meaning you can re-upgrade at any time [even if you downgraded during the free upgrade period].)
Comment has been collapsed.
Definitely Windows 10. I'm playing lots of older games which either perform better or run at all on Windows 10, which was not the case on Windows 7. WIndows 7 is highly overrated in my opinion.
Comment has been collapsed.
Windows 7 is worse than Vista in my oppinion. I had to reinstall Win7 about 10 times until the Soundblaster drivers did not kill the system anymore. My first Vista install is still running as my dads surf and print machine and did not crash to this day.
Comment has been collapsed.
You can use a Bluetooth xbone controller with Win 10, not so much with the other OS.
Comment has been collapsed.
So far, I'll have to say Windows 7, although I haven't had the chance to compare much - allow me to explain.
I upgraded to Windows 10 around the time I upgraded my GPU. Before that, my GPU was too shitty to run most games over 25FPS with lowest graphics settings. Now, I haven't had the chance to try DX12 since so few games support it yet (as far as I know - maybe I just don't realize which games run with DX12).
However, the reason I'm picking Windows 7 over 10 is that Windows 10 has so many issues and is so unstable with many games, especially older games for some reason. On the other hand, my AMD GPU causes more problem with games than the operating system itself, so who am I to complaint. Also, some games actually run on Windows 10 when they didn't on Windows 7, so that's pretty cool I guess.
Bottom line:
Both have their pros and cons. I sometimes regret my decision to upgrade to W10, but by the look of it, I must just have really shit luck and W10 hates me. Still - it's not the absolute bane of a gamer's existence. It does what it was intended to do, with a few hiccups here and there. I'm just really glad I didn't actually pay money to upgrade, but that's another story.
Comment has been collapsed.
Win 10 CU causes problems with fullscreen with some DX9 games. If that happens to you, try using compatibility mode for win7/8 and maybe disabling game bar. Anniversary Edition didn't have that problem afaik.
Comment has been collapsed.
You can use an xbox controller on windows 10 without needing to install drivers. You have to install drivers on windows 7, which can be a pain and sometimes can be overly difficult. My experience is that windows 10 is generally a bit faster than I've seen with windows 7, but at the cost of some weird happenings with installed software bugging out. Also Microsoft has some questionable upgrade policies and practices that they push, paired with what I see as privacy violations which doesn't bother some people, but bothers me.
Comment has been collapsed.
I got an xbox controller 3 weeks ago, installed it without problems (Windows update even recognized it's driver) in Windows 7.
Comment has been collapsed.
I had no such luck with my win7 computer recognizing the controller, and trying for 2 and a half hours to get the drivers directly from the microsoft site to allow the controller to work in vain made me just move the games in question I wanted to play over to my win10 laptop.
It is quite likely that I'm an outsider on that, but I thought to mention it because it did affect me between the versions. Thanks for the other perspective tho.
Comment has been collapsed.
I`m using xbox controller over a year on windows7 that's no big reason to praise windows10
Comment has been collapsed.
Like I already said to Lugum, "I thought to mention it because it did affect me between the versions" and "It is quite likely that I'm an outsider on that." It was something I mentioned, and I never made it to be some "big praise" as you so claim. Okay? Okay.
Comment has been collapsed.
I have skylake, I have no choice but to pick windows 10. otherwise I get stutters.
it's not that I regret it though, I think win10 is pretty decent OS if you have the hardware, but some of my games doesn't run anymore.
Comment has been collapsed.
You should be able to run ALL of your games just by tweaking compatibility settings. Heck, I've got old crap made for XP on my Win10 gaming box, and once I got the settings right, all of that stuff worked just fine too.
Everything that runs on 7 should run on 10, period. If it doesn't, you likely just need to mess with settings.
Comment has been collapsed.
I did everything I could. but not everything that run on windows 7 can run on windows 10 as well. especially those games that are badly ported to PC. believe me, I did everything I could. I didn't came to conclusion without trying. for example, I even went as far as installing a virtual machine on the same computer, and run those game via win 7. they work just fine. I tried all combinations I could think of. and I am not new to these things.
Comment has been collapsed.
Hmmmm...that's really weird. Maybe I can help? Let me know what you have that's not running, and if I have it and can get it to run, then I'll share my settings with you...or verify that particular app/game truly doesn't work. :)
Comment has been collapsed.
That would be awesome! I am also willing to give you something in return if one of your ways worked. I have 2 games that would love to play, but ever since I upgraded to windows 10, they just don't run anymore. both of these games are something you don't own.
Toukiden:kiwami
This one is really strange and I have to say I don't understand it at all. I can play it perfectly before, even after win10 upgrade. then I got busy for 1-2 weeks, so haven't played it in a while. by the time I had the chance, it just suddenly refuses to run. well, I can still run the pre-config before launch, but the game itself doesn't. just stuck to a minimized window that later says "not responding"
yes it sounds dumb that it suddenly stops working but apparently I'm not alone. there's few in the discussion thread of the game.
I tried: changing the compatibility settings, all of it, running it on a virtual machine, several launch options(everything that I could find), and those basic stuff like verifying cache, reinstalling and updating the graphics driver. Forgot what else but I did so much more.
One Piece Pirate Warriors 3
This just doesn't work from the start, I just got it here in a group gibs, same issue as Toukiden, except it has no pre-config and it has an actual window with whitescreen. later, it says not responding. I tried running it on virtual machine with win 7 and it worked. tried all other way like changing the compatibility settings, all of it, several launch options(everything that I could find), and those basic stuff like verifying cache, reinstalling, and updating the graphics driver.
I have windows 10 and gtx1080
thanks in advance.
Comment has been collapsed.
Crud, only problem is that I don't have either of those games. Dang. My gaming rig setup is similar, though (I'm running a gtx1070 OC), so if I could somehow nab either of those games, I could give it a shot.
And yeah, it sounds to me like you already know what you're doing (the average person doesn't know how to spin up a VM :) )...only quick suggestion off of the top of my head is to be sure you're not only checking compat settings for whatever Steam initially calls, but check for secondary executables in the game folder. A lot of the time, Steam will launch some smaller setup/stub exe, which in turn launches another exe that is the primary game engine. If you don't tweak compat stuff on the second one, then when it's called, it goes right back to having issues. You may have already done that...I'm just throwing that out there. :)
The other thing I've found is that sometimes I try the Win7 compat settings and something doesn't work...but then I'll try something like Win8.1 compat settings and it runs like magic. It doesn't seem to make much sense, but I've actually had that work at least twice. Weird, but worth a shot if you haven't tried it already.
Comment has been collapsed.
I tried all of the options there but I tried again to be sure. there's only win8, by the way. no 8.1. maybe that could be a new lead.
I checked the store page of these games and they don't even have the win10 support in their specification, maybe they're just not intended for it. maybe I should give accept the fact. Thanks for trying anyway. have a blue heart at least.
Comment has been collapsed.
Sure thing. If I manage to nab either of those games in a giveaway or bundle, I'll take a shot at it. Oh, and I WL'd you too. :)
Comment has been collapsed.
I haven't had issues with neither so far, but it's hard to tell which one runs better... if there is any difference it is probably barely perceivable.
Comment has been collapsed.
You can turn off how long you see stuff on boot, ssd alone improves alot.
Comment has been collapsed.
Win 7 does support Xbox One controllers, and no games uses DX12 anyway.
Win 10 comes preloaded with spyware, has multiple compatibility issues with games and drivers, and still uses horrible legacy format brought from touch screens and Win 8.
Comment has been collapsed.
This is mostly inaccurate. There is no spyware...yes, Win10 will send certain information, but you can control it and turn it off entirely. Apple and Google already collect more info without even asking you if you want to.
DX12 games are real...I play Forza Horizon 3 on my PC, and it's DX12. Re-Core as well. You can't play it (or any of the other XB1 cross-platform games) on Win7.
As for compatibility...I have 12 PCs at my house, all different hardware, and one I built recently for fun out of legacy, decade-old parts...fired right up in Win10 with no issues. I haven't had driver issues with ANY of those machines (one is even an old 32-bit Dell laptop...runs great on Win10). The OS doesn't have driver issues...keep in mind that the responsibility for drivers is generally with third parties, not Microsoft. You're blaming the wrong party for any compatibility issues. As for games, I have over 1200 games in my Steam library, and have yet to find one that won't run on Win10. Sure, I might have to turn on some compatibility mode settings for some of them, but once I do that for the game, it works just fine.
You don't have to EVER see the touch screen interface from Win8 in Win10. I run straight desktop mode (i.e., the Win7 look) on my gaming box, and never see the tiles.
Comment has been collapsed.
I disagree about the spyware, even though I am a huge Hendrix fan. =)
The spyware is there, and although you can turn most of it off they still collect a lot of telemetry data without your consent. Arguably, they are also trying to push this on Win 7 as well, but my point stands. My dad is over 60 and has a Win 10 PC and he had no idea about all the data they gather by default, it seems only PC savvy users will figure it out.
Thanks for the update regarding DX12. I was not aware of any games that utilize it.
I have a Win 10 laptop I got for free and I have run into various compatibility issues with it, especially drivers. It seems once a week I need to reinstall my audio drivers because the Win updates like to break them. Since it is a laptop, my gameplay is limited on it and admittedly, I have not had any issues so far.
I also use desktop mode on it myself, because the tiles just annoy me.
Still, I guess it isn't all that bad. I still think Win 7 is superior but maybe I should be more open minded about it.
Favorite Hendrix track is Hey Joe, how about you? =)
Comment has been collapsed.
Fair enough on people not realizing what's being collected. The important part, though, is that no PII is being collected, so even if they got hacked, it's not like someone can steal your identity based upon what's being sent. You're probably more at risk from your Amazon account than anything that MS is collecting through Win10. :)
Yeah, I would definitely encourage you to give Win10 a shot. I admit that I just did the free upgrade on one low-risk Win7 machine at first to try it out and see if it was ok. Honestly, that was the best upgrade experience I've ever had. It just ran smoothly, all devices/peripherals worked, apps were still in place. It was freaky good, and I kept waiting for the other shoe to drop, but it remained stable, so I started upgrading other boxes (which were about half Win7 and half Win8.1 [NOT 8.0...man, that was a train wreck...but at least the 8.1 patch made things workable again...underlying OS was always ok, but the UI on non-touch screens was infuriating]), and all of them worked (and continue to work) just great. Only issue I had was on one machine with an old Logitech bluetooth keyboard...turned out to be a Logitech issue where they hadn't registered the new drivers with Microsoft, so the wrong driver got pulled down in Windows update, and then the keyboard didn't work. Solution: block that update (Microsoft actually makes a free tool to do that, believe it or not), manually download the right driver from the Logitech site, uninstall the bad driver, install the new one manually, reset the keyboard and presto! It's worked right ever since.
Built-in virus protection is good -- a step up from the already-pretty-good free MS Security Essentials stuff for Win7...basically, they just took their commercial product and made a simpler version of it for individual use. Can't complain...no reason to use McAfee or the like any more.
BTW...you should try blocking your audio driver updates from win update if you can figure out which one it is. Sounds like the vendor did the same thing that Logitech did in my case and didn't register the proper driver with Microsoft, which means that Win update probably sees a "newer" driver available that is actually the wrong one, and then stomps your audio driver. This Page should help you get it sorted out. Hope that helps.
Oh, on Hendrix...if you'd asked me years ago what my favorite song was, I would have said Purple Haze. But that seems too easy these days. ;) I think that for a rocker, I like Voodoo Chile, but I'm also a big, big fan of Little Wing.
Comment has been collapsed.
no noticeable differences running games for me, but there are other parts of windows 10 that are better than they were in windows 7. then there's that rebooting to install updates when you're "not using the device" thing, which basically everyone needs to disable.
Comment has been collapsed.
I couldn't find any difference
Comment has been collapsed.