And still we complaint about it, antoher fine human triat.
And i hope you know that most people are here beacuse he/she want games for free and he dont even want to contribute to the community, dont have illusions, this is greed at it's finest.
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Great, now how do you figure out wether it is a bundled item or a genuine buy by the creator of the giveaway? I understand the need to weed out the bad giveaways but it should not prevent the legitimate ones either.
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Yeah, I guess not allowing new giveaways to be created while the bundles are being sold would be the best solution. We'd still have people giving their keys away afterward though. (Still not permitted for most bundles.)
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I think the indie bundles shouldn't be part of the list of games to give away on the site. Better make a thread on the forums for every bundle and whoever wants to give it away is free to do it there. So nobody gets points for spammed giveaways and the site is cleaner.
Just my humble opinion.
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I know it's disallowed, and I'm sure the mod team can see every giveaway, group, private, or otherwise. I don't blame them, as they're busy and have real shit to do outside of steamgifts. This thread is directed at the people who enter anyway, knowing it's against the rules.
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Group and private giveaways aren't hidden from an admin SQL query.
I would go so far as running a sotred procedure every hour cleaning up the database of any giveaway made of items marked as "Bundled"... Could even delete some legit ones along the way, that I wouldn't care, considering the odds
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Thanks for Beat Hazard, but I already got it from the Bemine 2 bundle a few hours ago.
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... are you retarded (silly question, since I already know you are, which is why you're banned from my puzzle giveaway)? The rules of countries are called laws. Unless they're cruel and oppressive, they're there for your benefit. I don't give two shits about your country. This is Steamgifts. The rules are in place for a reason. Follow them and stop bitching.
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I did not. quote: "when applied to more important things than steamgifts"
I didn't refer to any steamgifts rules and also did I not bring countries into play but merely responded to Incogs post. quote: "it's the mindset of every government ever. If you only get to obey the rules you agree with, it's called anarchy."
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Well if something like this should be applied (after reading rules for a couple of groups i'm in i managed to see it included in a few), i believe there should be a list around saying what games have been offered with bundles, as some people like myself are not always aware of them.
I agree they should be considered and reported, but in my personal case, since i'm not always aware of what games are released with bundles (and i dont usually pay attention to public giveaways either), something like what i mentioned could come in handy.
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To be honest I'm a bit surprised the admins haven't just banned Lucid keys outright. They are really good when other indie bundles come out and users try to flood the system with keys. I mean they banned the Fariey Solitare ones while the giveaway was happening so I'm not sure why Lucid seems to have gotten the slip.
Note that while I'm a tad critical of it, even this flood is far more tame compared to the original HiB when Gish was literally all you could see for about 10 pages. At least this one is somewhat 'manageable' even unfiltered.
My post was simply to illustrate what seems to happen if you let people post bundles while they are active, or to allow the posting of individual keys within said bundles. Most people have never seen the actual ramifications of what happens, so I was simply trying to bring that to their attention. now that there are lots more bundles out, the front 10 pages being flooded with all sorts of horrors simply grows exponentially.
The existing policy of only allowing FULL bundle URL giveaways seems to mitigate the flooding while keeping the spirit of the site. It's not ideal as yes people have unused keys they'd like to giveaway. However the alternative is to make the site unusable for broad periods of time for a lot of users. Until someone can come up with a solution that allows both individual keys to be allowed and prevents the system being flooded for weeks on end with the same 2 games, the current policy seems to be the best balance.
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Well, I don't give a hack about this rule unless it's explained. If we got some bonuses, money equivalents or something else for creating giveaways - than I'll understand, why it's forbidden. But, anyway, guy spent some money, no matter, how much - and now he's giving it away for other people. I don't care, where's my gift came from, and neither do other people. So, what's you problem?
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I suppose if you actually checked the thread that was linked and gave the topic under discussion more than a cursory glance, you'd know and you wouldn't look so ignorant right now.
Edit: "I don't care, where's my gift came from" Make that ignorant and greedy.
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Why, sorry for me not feeling myself ignorant right now. Could it be cured, doctor? =)
Really, you said lot of words, but not a single is the answer to my question: what's so bad in giving away bundle games?
And, I don't think I'm so greedy. I just using my chance to get a game, especially counting that I'm from not very rich country with low life level and I can't buy a lot of them. Yeah, yeah, I know what you can say: this community is about gifting, not winning the games, and I'm agree with you. But, anyway, I like not only to make gifts (actually, I'm learning to do it, and the fact is, I like it =) ), but to get them. So, can you tell me - what so WRONG about this bundle games and why are they rated not like games from big sales or something like this?
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Okay, okay. You seem like a good guy. I apologize for being harsh with you. Let me sum up from the other thread: Basically, you can get a bundle for $1. If you split the keys up and do individual giveaways for them, you get credited the full retail value of the game, which is usually $5-20 per game, letting you get credit for many times what it actually cost, so that you could rack up several hundred or even thousands of dollars' worth of games gifted from a very small actual purchase. It's a way of abusing the system. Giving away individual keys here in the forums or in chat or elsewhere is encouraged, but making giveaways for them is sort of cheating the feedback system, you see. That's why people get upset about it.
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Want funny thing? I was thinking to begin my previous message to you with "You seem to be a good guy..." =)
Well, thank you for not just criticizing me for not understanding what's it all about and explaining =) Not it's a lot more clear for me. Still, I have one question - is it all about just rating of giveaway value? Or maybe I just don't know something? =)
Actually, I wasn't looking at it as system hack. I thought it's not so bad. Anyway, do you and other guys think the others are creating this giveaways to cheat the system or they just don't even think about anything bad, as me? Damn, either there's something wrong or I'm too naive?.. I just like to trust people, you know. Or I'll just go nuts.
Maybe some system should be implemented, that will count only half of a price of bundle keys, people just should be honest and to check whether this key is from bundle. And, of course, some random checks on key's nature by mods and community =)
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Well, like cfriend said, it also clogs up the giveaway pages. Also, a lot of it is people who don't know any better because they haven't read the FAQ, and usually they're just giving away a few extra keys they didn't need. I wouldn't mind that too much, but some people do abuse it. I could give you examples, but it's not allowed to raise those kind of issues with people in public like the forums here. They're the ones who are really the problem with this kind of thing. If you looked at their profiles, you'd see hundreds of dollars of games gifted, and likely think them very generous, when really they mostly gave bundle keys which cost them very little. There's also the issue of groups. There are some private groups that require their members to have given a certain amount before they can join. These groups often won't count bundles and such to help avoid that kind of thing, though. Really, more people need to know, but that's hard because most of them don't visit the forums or chat, so it's almost impossible to try and tell them. That would help a lot. Other than that, there's just a few bad eggs who ignore the rules.
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I'd also add that I know a couple of the indie bundles specifically say to not split up the bundles. If you buy a bundle, ALL those games are for YOU, and nobody else. Maybe all of them say this, I don't feel like checking. But anyways, that was what I believed was the main reason behind the SteamGifts policy: to not piss off the indie bundle devs.
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Much more clear now, guys, thanks =)
And yeah, actually, I've read the rules before and knew it was forbidden, but I just could not understand the reason before.
Thank you all very much, you're really friendly and helpful. I'm having really bad days now, so I'm really gratful for your patience. I wish there were more people like you. Good luck to you =)
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I am pretty sure it's possible to route out with a script that just makes sure you have a copy of said game in your steam inventory ( as you are all aware these keys cannot be in there as its a code and not a gift ) its also applicable to any giveaway on this site the only downside is that people are going to have there steam inventory public which i do not see as a big deal.
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The reason that individuals keys are disallowed are because they clutter up the list of giveaways (which can theoretically lead to people becoming frustrated and leaving the site) but, in the context of non-public giveaways (i.e. group and private giveaways), they don't cause that problem to the general public (and members of groups not only don't mind the influx but usually even support it) so it's not really an issue. Yes, technically, it's still not allowed but most admins of giveaway groups let is slide.
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And, as pointed out above, it breaks the agreement with most bundles that only allow you to use the keys yourself. The group admins are breaking the rules. The users are breaking the rules. The entrants are promoting bad behavior by rewarding them with "thx" and appreciation. Shenanigans all around.
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There may be some bundles that somewhere, hidden in a terms of service agreement, mention something about the keys being solely for the individual they were sold to (or gifted to) for some legal reasons but, realistically, I don't think the majority of these indie bundle sites really care if one gives some extra keys around. The only time they would mind this (if at all) is when the sale was ongoing so as to avert this from hurting sales. (For instance, a person could make an agreement with 4 of his friends to buy a single bundle and then spread the games out between his friends who wanted specific games from the bundle which, obviously, would hurt sales compared to the same group of 4 friends each buying a bundle for themselves. In this scenario, only one bundle would be bought when, otherwise, a total of 5 would have been bought.)
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Perhaps there should be an individual option to give away games in bundles (something like P.A.M. -bundle key-) and those keys should have a lesser worth? I don't see any problem in giving away games from bundles actually, except that people of the top donors lose their well earned places unfairly.
I don't see clogging as a problem, especially having an add-on that can ignore certain giveaways.
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See Incog's comment above: "I'd also add that I know a couple of the indie bundles specifically say to not split up the bundles. If you buy a bundle, ALL those games are for YOU, and nobody else. Maybe all of them say this, I don't feel like checking. But anyways, that was what I believed was the main reason behind the SteamGifts policy: to not piss off the indie bundle devs."
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Folks, I understand, free games are great; however, our community has rules for a reason. This thread highlights the problem with allowing individual keys to be submitted to steamgifts. Just because bundle keys are sent out under the "privacy" of a group giveaway, doesn't mean they're okay. Scenes like this should be suspicious to you, and you should report the gift, instead of entering. What I'm trying to say is, stop being greedy, and focus on keeping our community clean. Conversations like this are seriously disappointing.
/activist-rant
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