if you give the key away, you should still be able to buy a new one to send the ga-creator for a rerol^^. but he would need to trust you...
or if you send him the game as a gift, there should be no problem. and if you explain it to the support, i´m sure, they will do the rerol even much later
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The correct procedure for when you win a game you already won(or have) is re-roll without doing anything else. If you used the key/gift then get a new one and give it to the creator so when the giveaway is rerolled he can give it to the winner.
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Ask for a re-roll or replace and get the GA deleted?
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It would be nice if there was a ticket available for a winner to request re-roll. That way some of these developer mass giveaways would be forced to pay attention to keys that should be re-sent.
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Ok. now i had this problem happen to me. the winner of my recent giveaway http://www.steamgifts.com/giveaway/dbP1G/hoard-complete-pack which ended 7 hours ago.
He has won the same game 5 days ago.
I didn't notice that he had allready won the same game 5 days ago.
I allready sent out the keys wondering why he didn't mark received after he was on 4 hours ago.
I allready sent an email and an invite at steam to discuss this matter.
Hopefully he still didn't use the key so i could ask for a re-roll.
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Better go for the mod status and suspend the s[redacted]t out of s[redacted]d f[redacted]rs, may be they'll learn from that. Or may be they won't and they'll end up permasuspended — good riddance.
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Thanks again for the reply. Unfortunately there are cases where the giveaway creators aren't willing to co-operate. What would you suggest the user do in this case?
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And Puzzle Dimension is really good.
Would enter if I didn't already own it.
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Bump!
The solution suggested by Support doesn't work if the original giveaway creator can't be reached or refuse to co-operate. If you have any idea on what can be done/implemented to overcome this, please comment.
My suggestion (requires changes in SG code):
Pros:
Cons:
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If they would actually do my suggestion? Then all you need is a fake user created by the site and accessed only by the site, so this account could be used. A forum group where I'm an admin uses a similar method to have a fake user creating high-level threads, so this way users won't always PM the one superadmin with all their questions who normally has the rights to do that but the actual active admin staff.
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Some questions...
What if the replacement gift is bought with a stolen credit card?
What if the original GA was for a private group that has monthly GA requirements or for solvers of a puzzle. Would the new GA be for the same set of users? If not, it would be quite strange to apply your step 3 to assign some random person to a winner of a group GA.
Because of these questions, I fear it may always be necessary to require the cooperation of the original GA creator and a system that lets you bypass that could have problems. If the original GA creator is unreachable that's tough luck.
For example, if a person contacted me asking to reroll a giveaway I did for Fallout 4 and they provide me with a Steamgift of it and their steamtrades profile is +3/-12, I would be inclined to refuse the reroll request because I may suspect it is stolen or bought with stolen funds, and it shouldn't be up to me to deal with the future issues that gift may have.
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What if the replacement gift is bought with a stolen credit card?
Then if the game is removed from the new winner's library, SG should reverse the process and re-assign the old winner again as the winner, to avoid the new winner having an unactivated win. Potentially the old winner (who provided an illegally bought gift) should be banned.
How often do you expect this to happen?
What if the original GA was for a private group that has monthly GA requirements or for solvers of a puzzle. Would the new GA be for the same set of users? If not, it would be quite strange to apply your step 3 to assign some random person to a winner of a group GA.
I agree it'll be a bit strange, but I fail to see what would be the harm. As long as the giveaway was for a group, and it has a winner that marked it as Received (meaning that the key was delivered), the giveaway creator did their part. The fact that the original winner was a rule breaker may annoy people in the group, but that's a fact of life with or without what I'm suggesting. I think if the original winner decided to undo his/her infractions other group members should be able to accept it and move on.
Because of these questions, I fear it may always be necessary to require the cooperation of the original GA creator and a system that lets you bypass that could have problems. If the original GA creator is unreachable that's tough luck.
Why accept it as an unsolvable problem ("tough luck") when the solution is right there to implement? I don't think the issues you see with my suggested solution are very significant. Locking out people who want to undo their "sins" and is worse in my view.
For example, if a person contacted me asking to reroll a giveaway I did for Fallout 4 and they provide me with a Steamgift of it and their steamtrades profile is +3/-12, I would be inclined to refuse the reroll request because I may suspect it is stolen or bought with stolen funds, and it shouldn't be up to me to deal with the future issues that gift may have.
That's exactly where my suggestion can solve this problem. You won't need to deal with anyone - not the old winner and not new ones. It's all transparent. The only thing you may notice is that one of your old giveaways suddenly has a new winner. As long as the winner was randomly selected, and as long as they're not rule-breakers, why would you mind if the site assigned a new winner instead of the old one?
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As per SleepyCat's comment https://www.steamgifts.com/go/comment/Ugsc5EJ I bought a giftable copy for the giveaway creator, but one has not been active on Steam or Steamgifts for years, and the other does not want to reroll or delete. What can I do?
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The ONLY thing you can do is to persuade the active member somehow. Why won't he accept rerolling the giveaway? Try asking him in order to find out the reason. Maybe even offer him some free cards too (although, he shouldn't accept them, but anyway).
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The active member's giveaway was years ago and many of the entries are no longer active on steamgifts, still members of the steam group it was limited to, or already have the game (it was bundled later on), so it seems like it would be a nightmare to reroll without admin support to help resolve it.
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Just tell him to reroll until he finds a legit winner. Support will help him. And maybe you can even make it worth his while by giving him a few cards. :P
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In principle there's no need for a reroll. You can mutually agree to delete the giveaway and Support will accept it. The GA creator would lose CV unless he/she creates another giveaway, and in this case the game was not yet bundled at the time of the giveaway, so it's easy to see why the GA creator wouldn't want to just have this one deleted and a GA for the same game (now worth 15% CV) be created instead, especially considering that the original GA had two copies (so in practice a new GA would be worth 7.5% CV). Having another winner also means it'll be more difficult to agree on deletion, as you need to involve one more person (though they are at least active).
In short, you need to make it worth worthwhile for the GA creator, and a new copy of the game understandably isn't enough to delete this giveaway.
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I don't have better ideas beyond what was already suggested. I can tell you that as someone who uses SGTools filters for most of his giveaways, I removed the automatic check for multiple wins completely (after using it for a while with a 2 year limit). I believe many others GA creators who use SGTools do the same, so hopefully you (and others in the same situation) aren't missing out on too many giveaways.
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There is no available solution for the one who left the site. The one who refuses to reroll - if the problem is that he does not want to bother with deletion/rerolls and would prefer to simply accept the replacement - this can work, too. We need a screenshot of your chat with him and a screenshot of your gifting history to show that he accepted your game.
If he does not want to reroll "just because", there is no solution available at this moment.
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if the problem is that he does not want to bother with deletion/rerolls and would prefer to simply accept the replacement - this can work, too
Could you please clarify on how this would work? He may be concerned that this might negatively affect CV.
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Some people are fine with accepting their game back, they just don't want to go through the hassle of multiple rerolls or to create deletion tickets. If this is one such case, the giveaway creator can accept his game back and state in chat that he does not mind the giveaway being deleted. We will delete it without any further involvement from him.
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Thanks for clarifying. In this case, he gave away two copies, so would accepting his game back mean adjusting the giveaway to a single copy then?
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Return the games and ask GA maker to reroll. That is the only way. Or serve a suspension which is worse.
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I don't know if this has been suggested, but if the giveaway creator can't be reached or is not willing to re-roll / delete the giveaway, the winner could make that giveaway themselves and then support could delete the other giveaway (I think support can only delete giveaways if someone sends a request though, so cg would have to make an exception for that when dealing with multiple wins). This would mean the creators would lose their CV, but if they really cared about it they would cooperate.
Or there could be something like, if you won multiple copies of a game, you would have an option to redeem yourself by making a giveaway with the same number of copies you won, and then somehow SGTools wouldn't accuse a profile if those redemption giveaways were made.
Update: After some discussion, I've improved my second suggestion. If you won x extra copies of a game and the creator is not reachable anymore or doesn't want to re-roll / delete the giveaway, you would have an option to redeem yourself by making a public level 0+ giveaway for x copies of that game and not get any CV for it. The system would then find x extra copies won, but it would also find x redemption copies given away, so it wouldn't trigger a ban on SGTools. A problem is this wouldn't work for games that have since then made available for free, because you can't make giveaways for them.
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That would be totally unfair. In this case original giveaway creator would lose CV, and rule breaker would get CV. It would be actually regifting, and regifting is bad.
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How would it be regifting when it's not the same copy? Like I said, if creator cared about CV he would cooperate in re-rolling / deleting the giveaway.
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What if it was a game that was given out for free later? Then they can't remake it and most/all entrants would have it.
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Then maybe make a giveaway for another game of same value?
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Because they won 2 copies through their own fault and would then be giving away 1 of those won copies and even get CV for it.
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They wouldn't be giving away one of those copies. It would be a different copy. Maybe it could be double the number of copies.
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Since they won 2 copies and it's only possible to activate 1 it would be by definition the same copy even if it was a different one.
(Unless I am missing something)
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But they would be redeeming themselves by buying another copy to give away. To me, that is worthy enough of losing the multiple win trigger.
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How would you proove that they are indeed giving away another copy and not their multiple win ?
Also if you're suggestion would be implemented it would be ok for me to win a game 5 times and sell 4 of them or give them to my friends as long as I buy a different copy at some point and give it away here ?
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After it's been such a long time? I doubt anyone would keep that copy unactivated that long, especially if they were rule breakers back then with no intention of fixing their mistakes. It would have to be a public level 0+ giveaway, so the odds of giving them to your friends would be really low.
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And maybe CV could be removed for the redeemption giveaway(s).
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I didn't mean give them to my friends as a giveaway... I should have said "sell them / give them to my friends".
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If you're willing to buy 4 more to give away and not get any CV for them, then I don't see a problem.
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If were talking 1 copy per multiple wins that would work out but it still leaves the problem that it would be impossible to monitor if it's a different copy. Just think of how lots of people are hoarding 5 year old Freebies hoping they will be added back sometime.
Well let's leave it at that... I'm all for giving people with multiwins some chance of redeeming themselves if the GA creator is not willing to cooperate and reroll but I think this is not the ideal solution.
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But that wouldn't matter because you wouldn't get any CV for it. Well, it's just a suggestion.
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Maybe I've just become cynical about everything that would require even the tiniest change in how SG operates because I know it won't happen. Eversince SG2 all changes I noticed have been more of a technical nature or maybe adding a new region restriction.
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Oh yeah, I know none of these suggestions are likely to be implemented. :P
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You know, creator can just not want extra problems. And you can't blame him - it was not his fault after all.
And technically - it's still regifting. Winner got the game, winner give the game - no matter if it's the same key/gift, he still got profit out of nothing, instead of being punished. It's very exploitable scheme. Only way to avoid this is to implement new kind of giveaways, that would always give 0 CV, especially for rule-breakers that want to fix their mistakes. And even in this situation it's unclear what to do with original giveaway, because deleting it is unfair, so this would need some new implementation also. Too much work to do because of someone who don't follow the rules.
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Yep, that's why I think my second idea would be better. Well, any work around this will be too much work and I doubt something will ever be implemented. cg can't even allow us to use IndieGala gift links in our giveaways, and I'm sure that's like a 10-seconds implementation change. -.-
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Maybe. But I think my second idea would work well.
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this issue is just releated to sgtools, sg doesn't punish anyone with a multiwin (except for the first suspension).
maybe sgtools fanatics users should think twice before filtering out people with multiple wins instead of complaining to cg.
people are free to try to clear their past offenses, but going to extremes to fix their mistakes and asking for more features (just to leech a few bundles behind sgtools) seems a bit obsessive and a waste of time.
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Trying to solve this isn't only related to SGTools giveaway, and you know it. This would also help stop the endless stream of support tickets requesting new winners for an infraction that has already resulted in suspension. This is a terrible annoyance for both GA creators and Support. Letting winners fix their past misdeeds would benefit everyone involved. The only downside is that implementing a solution isn't free.
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the only reason people want to get rid of multiple and unactivated wins is because of sgtools, nothing else. before those protected giveaways appeared on the forums, no one cared. not a single thread was posted about it.
and i had to experience what it feels to reroll a 9 months old ga. it's a waste of time and effort.
the only ones that gets something positive out of it is the rerolled user and the new winner. i had to deal over a month asking support and waiting like an idiot to deliver a game the original winner shouldn't have won in the first place.
rerolling old giveaways are a pain to giveaway creators.
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GA winners want it for the reason you mentioned, GA creators and Support want it for the reason I did.
You experience is not relevant to what I wrote. It is related to current method of getting rid of multiple wins, while the discussion now is about alternative solutions. If you claim is that these suggestions aren't likely to be implemented by CG in the foreseeable future, I'd agree. But if you're saying that they shouldn't be implemented it just means that you think the current situation is acceptable.
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I think I'd rather like to hear what Support wants from Support ;)
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Yeah, if Support members are reading this, which option would you prefer?
1. Enhance the site to allow users with multiple wins to clean their record, and as a result ensure GA creators don't need to request rerolls when these users win
or
2. Keep things as they are. Have these users remain "felons" for eternity, and continue to get an endless stream of tickets for the same old infraction
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I assume things like that are rather discussed by Support internally.
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Honestly I have the impression that Support doesn't have much more say about changes made to the site than we users do.
To me it appears cg is making all decisons about how the site operates and support is only managing the day to day business.
Afterall we have a statement from Support in this thread and I would translate it as it would maybe be nice but it's definitly not on their priority list, not even on the long list + since it mostly affects SGTool GAs it's not really their problem.
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Only if the original GA creator is still active here on SG and willing to cooperate (since only the GA creator can request a reroll) which is often not the case when trying to make up for very old double wins.
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Exactly, we're in an awkward position where old rule breakers who want to make amends quite possibly never will be able to. That's why I think if at all possible support should be able to reroll inactive users wins with the rule breaker providing the new key.
That way the original GA creator keeps his CV and the rule breaker fixes his/her mistake.
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I'm generally in favour of having more ways to request a reroll than the creator themselves requesting it but we all know that there are hardly any changes made based on suggestions here on SG.
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I think the problem comes with punishing rule breakers who are trying to fix their mistake, it sort of serves as a double punishment. They have been banned for X amount of time, then they come back to find themselves locked out of a lot of private GA's, groups and ostracised from the forums.
Correcting mistakes should be made easier imho, granted rule breaking in the first place is bad, but once they've served their punishment they should be allowed to prove they have atoned and reformed, otherwise the punishment is meaningless. Also then punishments can become staggered and get more severe to punish repeat offenders.
As I stated above, if the original GA creator is inactive, someone who broke the rules but wishes to make amends is in an awkward position of not being able to right their wrong. Again, as stated above, if there was some way to "auto" reroll when a user is inactive with the rule breaker providing the new key, that should be allowed.
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SteamGifts does not punish rule breakers twice for the same infraction. This multiwin issue pops up with the SGTools giveaways only. Yes, it might be difficult to resolve a very old multiwin issue, but a) let's be honest, if one truly cared about the problem, one should have resolved it ages ago, and b) it does not prevent one from entering regular giveaways anyway, and any issues with SGTools are beyond our control.
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I agree!
However, even if by the "law" they aren't being punished twice, there is a stigma surrounding things and as you've said, exclusion of certain events etc.
If someone breaks the rules, leaves and comes back a different person, they are still being actively punished by the community for something they can't fix. I respect that your job is difficult, but wouldn't giving people an extra option to fix things lower the amount of repeat tickets you will receive?
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Ideally, the only way to resolve this would be for SG to serve as a middleman in creating a giveaway on behalf of an inactive user and awarding him CV for it. However, there's currently no support framework available for this, and I'm not aware of it being planned.
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I agree. Everyone deserves a second chance. People should welcome the steamgifts users that are trying to fix their old mistakes. If they stigmatize them, they'll just leave the site, go somewhere else, and do the exact same thing. We need to restore the faith in humanity somehow, step by step. :/
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they are still being actively punished by the community for something they can't fix
Maybe the problem is the community rather than the system then ?
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What you wrote implies that there's no need to improve the system in regards to handling of multiple wins, because the problem may be with the community and not the system.
What I'm saying is that such improvements are still very much needed, but for a different reason.
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Yes, there is room for improvements, but the problem of "being actively punished by the community", it's not the system's fault if some people feel a need to play police and ostracize or stigmatize other users
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Whilst there is truth in that, I'd argue that the community are simply following the rules by trying to exclude rule breakers. If society(in this case SG) deems a social trait as bad or against the rules(in this case multiple wins), then society will try to uphold the rules, thats why things like neighbourhood watch exist, to aid the police.
However if theres no way of seeing if someone has reformed, how can a society not punish someone? Especially when the rules rely on them doing so(by reporting/blacklisting).
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It won't show as a red line in SGtools, so a person doing it will no longer be filtered out of private giveaways.
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They're suggesting that if the giveaway is old, and the user they won the dupe game from is most likely no longer active, then unmarking or marking it as not received has no consequence, because there's no one around to report it.
That's the big flaw in the whole SG rule enforcement system, it requires people to check and report, and most of the active users don't check, and inactive users aren't around to.
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In one of my SGTools trains I had someone that was SGTools clean (no invalid entry in the main gate and in all the individual cars).
This person won multiple gifts (3) in that train from me but I always also do manual SGTools checks and I saw that he or her had a non activated gift.
I submitted multiple tickets to SG support and I got all his or her wins re-rolled very quickly and that user was suspended for 4 days.
I guess this user thought that he or her could get away with it. This user entered loads of cars in that train so this could not have been "by mistake".
This user tried to cheat those wins by fiddling with the marked received feedback and he or her is now permanently banned from any SGTools giveaways because of misuse of giveaway feedback to bypass SGTools giveaway rules.
My view on this is that any fiddling with giveaway feedback for the sole purpose of cheating the SGTools gate/SGTools cars can only be seen as crossing the line and being very dishonest.
Playing with marking received and not received at leisure is like playing with matches/fire, it's just a matter of time not if but when you'll get burned.
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Yeah I approve official solution from Monsieur Le Cat, if the creator isn't cooperating then it's the users fault for not paying attention to the site's rules in the first place! I've personally done a couple of bad things in the past, thankfully all of them were minor and easily fixable, but I did mend them as soon as I was pointed out that I was breaking the rules.
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For those with unactivated wins, the solution is very simple - they can always buy a key or trade for it, and it gets removed from the list. But what can people with multiple wins do if they gave the second key away? Asking the giveaway creator to reroll isn't possible in this case, because the new winner won't be able to activate.
Edit: Official solution from Support is here
Edit 2: This solution doesn't work if the original giveaway creator can't be reached or refuse to co-operate. If you have any idea on what can be done/implemented to overcome this, please comment.
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