Indeed, some people live in the Netherlands and also have it legalized. =P
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think with common sense and know that legalized doesnt mean kids can have it. legalized and regulated like tobacco or alcohol (which both are more deadly and unhealthy than weed)
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im saddened you have to ask. tobacco causes cancer, alchohol can cause several deadly conditions such as liver and/or kidney failure. drunk driving is a huge problem but thats more about responsible use than anything.
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What are you talking about? It will get cheaper... WAY cheaper... I don't think Netherlands have legalized weed anyway.
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cannabis is still technically an illegal controlled substance in the netherlands, contrary to popular belief. the government simply chooses not to enforce the law for minor posession and recreational use. yes, even the coffee shops are technically illegal, and grow ops do get taken down regularly.
source: been there.
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In Colorado, prices for weed bought at sanctioned shops have gone up 50% compared to when it was illegal. Most smokers I know still buy from their local dealers because prices have stayed steady for them.
I can guarantee the same thing will happen in Washington when they finally get around to setting the law into action.
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Oh yeah thats why everyone turns their nose away when people like you walk by, because you smell like roses.
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Weed makes you smell like burnt garbage after getting sprayed by a skunk.
I know the difference between pechuli oil or however thats spelt and weed, I used to live with family members that smoked all the time and they smelled like an ass that had just shit itself constantly.
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I'm afraid you are the only moron thinking cannabis has that effect on people.
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There is scientific evidence that marijuana negatively affects the development and learning abilities of it's users. It is something that has vindicated me since I was sure that there were negative long-term side effects, despite what all the potheads liked to claim.
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Care to link a study? Those results are usually attributed to heavy and long term use or when it's used as a teen/at a young age. With light use as an adult the health problems related to cannabis stay fairly minimal.
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You just agreed with him.. Lol. He pretty much just said that it affects developing individuals, such as teens, and long term users. He didn't really say anything about light use.
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His statement is fairly general, which is why I asked for the study. Similar things could be said about alcohol, but everyone knows that it only applies to use at a young age and heavy use. People need to be educated truthfully about the effects and risks of using cannabis and it really should be seen as an alternative to alcohol.
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No, he didn't say "developing individuals", he said "negatively affects the development and learning abilities of it's users".
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Who would be affected the most by a negatively effected development and learning ability? Developing individuals. Let's not get so picky with wording. I am just saying that he, along with many other people here, shouldn't automatically be on the defensive.
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Pretty sure medical use is legal, at least by federal law, and I am fine with legitimate, medical use. There is a lot of illegitimate use, sometimes using medical use as protection against arrest, with a fake prescription, or a prescription from a doctor who doesn't really care about doing his job legally.
EDIT: I just remembered a story a while back over federal law vs state law, and people confused why they are arrested on federal charges over something deemed legal by their state.
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If you are referring to the study that was released last year from New Zealand then that study is flawed as they didn't account for socioeconomics which has an impact on intelligence quotient.
There are about 50million users in the US and about half the population of Canada as well as millions of other users in other countries world wide and they all still flourish. I could also write a list (or you could just think, in general) of every single successful/famous (or "pothead" as the almighty intelligent crazyalan1988 calls them) Doctor, Professor, Lawyer, Judge, Actor, Director, CEO, Musician, Politician, President, Author, Philosopher etc, because they are multiple examples for each that have admitted to using cannabis.
I could continue but I think you've already proven it would be a waste of my time.
Oh and I'm a medical user, not a pothead; which is a derogatory term. So I guess you really showed everyone who the moron is.
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First off, highly excelled people who have simply used marijuana I would not call a "pothead". And the "potheads" I mentioned are people who are promoting the use of marijuana, while they smell of it 24/7. I knew some users who were very productive in the world, some more than me, and I've met many more who can't bother to do much other than smoke their marijuana.
People I classify as "potheads" are addicts, and live their lives around their marijuana. The fact that you immediately take offense of the term without apparently fully comprehending what I wrote brings more your intelligence into question than my generalization. Also, I find it hilarious that you assumed I called you and everyone who has used marijuana for legitimate and casual (but limited) uses potheads.
In my opinion, marijuana should not be legalized because too many people cannot handle the drug responsibly, because there is not enough knowledge going around about what it can do to you, including overdoses, which are happening now in Colorado, mostly due to the food laced products now being sold as well. And before someone points out alcohol should be illegal by this logic, that is not a logical conclusion. There is a lot of regulation out there and a lot of knowledge showing the short and long term affects of alcohol. Sure, maybe there should be more regulation on alcohol, but good luck finding a way of passing it without a riot.
And believing that something that affects your brain chemistry like marijuana does has no long term side effects is just plain stupid.
I do beleive the study I was thinking of was from sometime this year, but I don't follow marijuana legislation or studies, because I have never had much interest in the stuff myself.
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Umm.. "overdoses"? You just nullified any credibility you might have had.
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There have been a number of cases in Colorado, mostly dealing with marijuana in food products, of overdoses, because people do not understand how much they are actually consuming. They eat/drink some of the product, and when they notice no change, they immediately have more. You can overdose on marijuana, it does happen and it is happening, pretending that you can't just makes the problem worse, and helps show my case why marijuana should not be legalized. Too many people cannot use the stuff responsibly, mostly through the lack of knowledge.
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Tobacco and alcohol are legal mostly because it is harder to make something illegal when so many people are dependent on it, or enjoy it, than to keep it illegal. Both cause obvious harm, yes, but when the prohibition happened, people fought against it, and there was already such a wipe spread demand that the mafia just picked up the slack.
I am not saying that alcohol and tobacco should be illegal or legal, just that it is not feasible to make them illegal. I imagine there will be one day that tobacco will be illegal, but I honestly can't say that is in alcohol's future.
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Nonsense. You cannot OD on marijuana. The worst that can happen to you is a bad trip, where you feel bad and have an elevated heart-rate - which can itself be an issue if you're older or have a weak heart, but you cannot take a lethal dose of marijuana. If you're going to say this, provide proof. Because there is no proof for what you say. Go ahead and try to look up the LD-50 of marijuana. Have fun actually educating yourself rather than incessantly posting uninformed tripe.
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"In layman terms this means that in order to induce death a marijuana smoker would have to consume 20,000 to 40,000 times as much marijuana as is contained in one marijuana cigarette." Kind of like saying you cannot overdose on aspirin because you'd need to eat a ton of bark.
I am not speaking of death by overdose, as overdose does not immediately imply death. Overdose with marijuana generally involves the concentrated form of THC, often put into foods. It does cause extreme paranoia and anxiety. And I assume LD stands for "Lethal Dose".
Sure, you cannot cause death by just smoking the stuff, but the other products that will rise with it is where the problem is. Pretending that you cannot OD on marijuana is just going to make it that much more prevalent if it is legalized.
Because I have to provide snippets of proof, against people who don't provide proof:
(http://www.drug-overdose.com/marijuana.htm)
(http://www.newhealthguide.org/Can-You-Overdose-On-Marijuana.html)
(I give up with making clicky links, I can never remember how and I am tired of looking it up.)
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Carl Sagan was a pothead, same with many other accomplished people. Hell when Obama was young his nickname was "Barack Oganja" and his brain seems to have developed well enough (at least better than Bush Jr's brain anyway...)
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I dunno man, the guy who called out the study for not dividing the group equally amongst socioeconomic groups, was also called out by other people looking at the data and groups within the data having kids who were not poor equally losing as much points on the IQ tests as those who were, and the socioeco guy used simulations to represent being poor as having the same effect detrimental effect on learning as being rich and on drugs. But we all know that there are a lot of people who are rich or smart who were dirt poor at birth.
The NZ study is washed with kids from the same school system as its the same at all schools as its set by the government, in a nation where poverty is low and the students from the study grew up in a time when school provided food for free (also shown to have impacts on learning) So its reasonable to say the differences where minimal, its all outlined in the actual study. However, same study undertaken now might be different, and especially different in the USA as there are more factors around schooling, and a much higher percentage of families in poverty.
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.. That study was a study done on MICE, and the conclusions that study got to said that weed can indeed influence developing adolescent brains, so smoking a bunch of weed while you're under around 15 would be a bad idea - but once the brain has matured, there are no long-term effects on brain development or plasticity.
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There is not much research on long term affects on developed/adults which does not mean there are none. Marijuana causes a change in brain chemistry while it is in your system, if it didn't, it wouldn't cause the effects that people seem to enjoy so much. There is evidence, however, that marijuana use can lead to psychosis.
No studies proving one way or the other is a long cry from "no long-term effects", just a lack of studies.
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As you say, "while it is in your system". As for little studies? Please, stop posting in this thread with your half-baked and half-informed BS. Go to Pubmed and actually look up published studies, and read them. I don't feel like spending the next hour or two finding studies I've read and directly linking you to them. Get informed.
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Nope. Plenty of people. Play nice. This is a debate you don't win by calling someone a moron and leaving it at that.
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.... You honestly believe it doesn't affect kids? It turns them into idiots. Adults I don't care about.
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No no, I meant that people have proven it's completely SAFE, and I called BS on that.
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What should I care more about the studies that "prove it" than those that proved the opposite? The only studies I've seen claiming that cannabis wasn't harmful have been published by pro-drug organisations. I'd rather trust the research from actual scientists vs a bunch of potheads.
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I would disagree with that. I believe it has significantly less tar but still contains some if you smoke it.
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I could see marijuana causing lung cancer, due to particulates and foreign matter getting into the lungs, which is part of the issue with the tobacco products. Then again, it may be the actual tobacco affecting the surfaces in the lung considering even chewing tobacco has some pretty major affects in the mouth.
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Nobody seems to understand the point of the question. It's about this generation of kids getting ahold of the stuff. Not adults using it. Does everyone here think kids under 18 should smoke marijuana? If you do I feel sorry for whoever raised you. Remember, I'm 15. I'm not some adult ranting about this.
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I think that once you come of age, you should be free to smoke it. First you should also be informed. If they still want to smoke it, it's up to them.
If you don't want that, I think it would be fair to make also cigarettes and alchol illegal.
I personally think it's not "dangerous enough" to be illegal (same for cigarettes and alchol) and I'd rather have people high on weed rather than under the effect of alchol (personal preference).
Of course most of all I'd like people to take anything they take in a responsible and moderate way, but it's not really gonna happen 100% of the times and having it illegal won't stop them from smoking it.
Better to inform people and regulate its use rather than pretend that saying "it's illegal" will stop anybody from doing anything.
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Do you think kids are not already smoking it? There will be the same laws in place that means they can't legally smoke it until 18, but legalizing it will not suddenly increase the amount of teens smoking it because (news flash) a ton of them are anyway. Hell a lot of teens are doing way harder drugs than that.
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Helped me keep my medicine down when I wrecked my stomach due to drinking too much alcohol.
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Yes.
It's not dangerous, it's not any worse than cigarettes. Heck, I think cigarettes are worse.
I personally don't approve of smoking, but I don't care if someone does because it is their choices to do so, and I am not going to interfere into someone else life.
So, yeah. I think that weed (or marijuana) should be legalized.
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No, heck no
If you think any kind of drug is harmless, you are just making yourself illusions
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They are legal, and well regulated, though some more than others. I doubt if they legalized marijuana, they would have any notion on how to correctly regulate it.
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Listen man, you keep proving you don't know anything valuable about this topic, so I'm begging you to stop now.
Colorado, where I live, has a strict maintenance policy when it comes to marijuana -- where it can be sold, who can sell it, whom it gets sold to, how much can be sold, and the quality of the product. That policy has worked amazingly well so far, and has brought in more than 12 million dollars in tax revenue for the state since shops opened up. It's being regulated just fine. Overdoses are a rarity, drunk driving is at its lowest rate in decades, and nobody has died from eating too many fucking pot brownies.
Regulation is all a matter of effort.
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People are overdosing due on marijuana due to the food laced with THC, and there are a number of links to that article throughout this thread. It got national attention when people were overdosing on the marijuana in food, because they didn't feel the affects of it at first. They may have quite a bit of regulation going on currently, but they've obviously got holes in it that they hadn't predicted, and those holes are the things that need to be thought about well before legalizing something like this.
Also, with that 12 million tax dollars, how much is spent on that regulation. "Effort" costs money. Regulation doesn't just happen, it comes from education and enforcement. Also, they need to deal with the problems associated with driving under the influence of the marijuana, which is also happening. I never suggested anyone's died from eating too many pot brownies, though I imagine there would be a point in which it did kill you, things like the pot brownies have caused overdoses, which usually lead to psychosis, such as anxiety disorders (go figure).
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Stupid people do stupid things all the time. People with no prior experience with THC deciding to eat a mountain of pot-laced casserole is a case of STUPID PEOPLE DOING STUPID THINGS. Same goes for idiots who drink so much water they burst their bladder or drown their own internal organs. Regulation isn't going to stop dumbshits from harming themselves.
Again, your knowledge on this subject is laughable. THC Overdoses usually lead to psychiatric conditions? Anxiety disorders are a form of psychosis? There are "obvious" holes in current regulations? Get out of here with that blatant scaremongering.
One last thing: Colorado has already pushed out many municipal laws set up to prevent and punish stoned driving. It seems like all that was unnecessary however, because there has been no correlating increase in statewide DUIs since the pot law went into effect. Put that little fact in your pipe and smoke it, buddy.
It's almost like you get all your information from sitting in on fourth-grade elementary school D.A.R.E. classes.
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The people who are overdosing are not eating "a mountain of pot-laced casserole", they are probably eating a few more pot-cookies, or extra THC-granola. Marijuana can cause psychosis, not overdosing (appearently I missed what I had written when I went back through rewriting parts of my posting), in one of the articles I had read earlier it mentioned that including anxiety disorders, but there are a number of articles that say that marijuana can be used to treat psychosis at the same time as being capable of causing it. The regulations aren't to keep "dumbshits from harming themselves", but to reduce the risk of people who do make mistakes, which last time I looked, is everyone. Since they've found the holes in their regulation with some of the food products, they started limiting the amount of THC is allowed in these products, and to make it less likely to unintentionally take more than what you mean to take.
The "obvious holes" are where people are having problems with overdosing, and it being because the labeling on the product does not emphasize what is actually in it, making it easy to take more than the suggested or safe amount.
Punishing people for "stoned driving" would be redundant due to the fact that "impared" or "under the influence" would include while stoned.
And just because you've seen how marijuana legalization can work where you live, doesn't mean the areas that it doesn't work doesn't exist. I get my information from the news, and I draw my own conclusions from the facts that I pick up.
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I would normally ask for proof that there have been all these overdoses taking place since marijuana has been legalized, specifically in Colorado (as you claimed in an earlier post), but I know for a fact that you a full of shit. You just happened to see a news article about some naive, inexperienced NY Times reporter who ate a THC candybar and thought she was dying.
You are getting all your "facts" from extremely biased sources, and as a result your conclusions are just plain ignorant.
Also, marijuana is only capable of causing psychosis in people who already have a heavy predisposition towards that kind of psychological condition. It's the same thing for any other type of drug.
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I just find that it was annoying that I have to supply articles to stories for back up my information while I have only once received any link backing up anyone else's claims. Yet I am amazed how you seemed to have immediately taken offense to me as nearly every post you have responded to me has included an insult toward me. Grow up.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/marijuana-infused-food-rules-in-colorado-examined-after-deaths/
The news story I had seen was on CBS news. In the morning some time ago.
And you cannot say I get my facts from "extremely biased" sources without knowing where I am getting them, and any source will be biased one way or the other regardless.
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Yup.
For those saying "oh, all these studies prove it's harmless!" How many of those studies have you actually looked at instead of taking the word of some random dude who posted on the net that there's studies that prove it's harmless?
Just a couple links to do some reading for yourselves.
Recent news article in USA today
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/07/27/risks-of-marijuana/10386699/
Info published by Harvard, including links to studies and briefings by doctors and scientists
http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/evidence99/marijuana/Health_1.html
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"If someone becomes addicted it is entirely up them" Wut
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He means to say it's psychological. Hamburgers are more addictive than Cannabis, but no one wants to ban them for some fat reason hmmmmmm....
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Well I was being more picky about the statement as a whole. People don't decide to be addicted they decide to use addictive substances. Again just being picky :P Don't mind me.
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Obviously it's not harmless, but it's one the least harmful intoxicants. Alcohol and tobacco are much more harmful.
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i 100% agree. im highly against any type of drugs unless its for health reasons. and im highly against alcohol. and i feel alcohol should be illegal. i also think smoking anything should be illegal also.
it was fine 300 years ago cuz people didnt know any better. but we should have evolved past this smoking and alcohol stage in humanity. its a shame were still going through it
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That prohibition created the Mafia, this current one made many gangs, cartels, terrorists, and contras, and now people still want more regulation. When will humanity learn tyranny isn't the answer?
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cigarettes and alcohol are more of a drug than weed, also they are harmful as opposed to weed
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I have a feeling that tobacco cannot be deemed illegal due to too many people being too dependant on it. Alcohol cannot be legitimized because, well, heck look at last time, it didn't work. Marijuana may not be very harmful under many circumstances, but it is already illegal, and it is safer to avoid causing addiction and problems from overuse, than to open the doors, and try to close it later.
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cigarettes and alcohol are more of a drug than weed, also they are harmful as opposed to weed
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Ofcourse it should, some people need it for medication purposes and cant get it in many countries/have very hard time getting it through official means. The reason why its not legal is it being so easy to grow by yourself, making it hard to tax it. Another thing is, alcohol and smoking being legal while being far more dangerous to your health. Plus really, bannig stuff from people doesnt do a thing, all it does it creates possibilites for black market, mafia makes tons of money on drugs because of this. It literally takes one call to get any drugs you want in my country. If someone wants to get drugs is gonna get drugs anway, banning it only gives crime scene easy money. Also its laws arent gonna stop kids from doing it or not, its their parents responsibility.
My few cents.
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In my country there's a website for drug dealing. Yeah, pretty insane. It's there and anyone can visit it. It's basicly a forum/picture board that uses TOR. Currency is bitcoin and private conversations through hushmail. Completely untrackable by my country's police. I myself have just studied about this matter and would never touch it even with a 5 meter pole. (It's also used as a hacking society, illegal programs, illegal "adult content")
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In general - yes - even as I don't smoke it (for the last goddamn time, my avatar is inside-anime-trolling! ;p). Smoked by your friends in school? Hell no! It should be strictly prohibited for minors - same as alcohol and tobacco. Adults on the other hand shoyuld be allowed it, with same restrictions as alcohol (not working, driving or taking care of children while drunk/stoned). Actually I believe that it's even better than alcohol. Ofc when people are stoned they may act like morons, but I never seen anyone being aggrresive after weed. On the other hand I've seen agressive drunks too many damn times.
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Honestly, making it legalised would probably just make it easier for minors to get a hold of it. Anyway, I don't think it's as a big issue over here in the UK.
And it isn't that dangerous. Look at the studies, especially in comparison to alcohol/smoking/other drugs. It is (practically) impossible to die directly from weed, whereas that case is much different with smoking and alcohol.
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Ohhhhh the terror!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/01/cannabis-for-infants-brai_n_2224898.html
http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/15/health/cannabis-landon-riddle/
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/medical-marijuana-year-sparks-controversy/story?id=17814636
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/toddler-cancer-takes-cannabis-oil/story?id=15981324
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Thanks for that.
There's another one I saw a while ago about an enraged autistic child who the parents were able to calm down with cannabis, after other pharmaceutical drugs wouldn't work. I saw the news story on youtube.
I wish studying of cannabis were more free. We really need to let scientists test all cannabinoids, and not just what can be derived from NIDA provided plants after the DEA stalls a study for decades.
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Funny one about a guy at the DEA
Yeah I really do think its big pharma hurting that more so...who knows.
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"I believe gay married couples should be free to defend their marijuana plants with guns"
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I like it from time to time, and I think it SHOULD be legalized in small quantities but I also know that over-use leads to a complete fuck up. I had a friend who smoked so much that you could later tell just by the look of his face that he smoked a lot. I mean, not like "recently" smoked, but at all. It has a permanent effect on your brain AND your face. he was all "duh..." all the time :/
Still, its fun stuff to just get a few of your best friends, put up some chill music and.. chill :D
Then search for the keys to a tank.
Then actually find them.
And then contemplate the meaning of existance.
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I kinda hope some country will ask it's citizens "what we should do with weed" with answers:
Somehow, I'd expect answer 2 to win...
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It can be psychologically addictive at the very least. Although the gateway drug argument is kind of a slippery slope.
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So is food. Chocolate is more additive for me personally, same goes for tea...
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Of course :-).
1 out of 20 people I know got what you can call addicted, BUT he has an extremely addictive personality and it happens with everything from food to well anything...really. That said he could be addicted to worse...
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Isn't as addictive, people can get addicted. There isn't enough research showing that it is or isn't a gateway drug.
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I can agree with that. Most people who start with weed and go on to stronger stuff have addictive personalities to start. Weed probably didn't have anything to do with it.
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Yeah tell that to 50+ year olds that only ever did weed and maybe a hit of acid in the 60's at the most...
It's not a gateway drug, sorry, its a gateway to 3am pizzahut maybe, that's about it.
Those people would have went straight for the harder stuff if Weed wasn't around....
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Now that's just a dumb thing to say. I smoke weed, and sure, I did other drugs in the past when I was younger, like LSD, but I was trying and it wasn't related to weed. I'm 29, I have anxiety problems, and weed helps me a lot with that. And I know if I take meth or something like that my anxiety will get worse. Don't be stupid. People who smokes weed and than move on to a stronger drug do it because they want to. It isn't a gateway drug. Different drugs has different effects. I like the effect of weed. Yes it can be psychologically addictive. But a lot of things can.
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You are wrong.
http://www.collective-evolution.com/2014/04/12/study-the-gateway-drug-is-alcohol-not-marijuana/
Who's ready for prohibition 2.0? Lets just make all of life illegal while we're at it, nothing on this shitty planet deserves any kind of freedom or liberty.
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The 18 being some sort of defining age is also quite a stupid concept. It depends on the subject. Human bodies might even develop up to year 30 on some areas, 25'ish is another area and about 18-20 is when general puberty has probably stopped for 99% (includes brain development and decision making). So up until 30 if you want to live with the optimal 'build' for your body don't do anything harmful.
Now another point. Most of the stuff we eat is harmful. Too much bread might cause cancer, drinking-water has more or less poison (well obviously not direct poison for humans) put into it to clean it from harmful bacteria. We live in very harmful environments created by our own society (gassses, bad air, fatty chemical food products, habits of body getting a bad workout). It's almost certain drugs won't make most people idiots or braindead. Also we have more harmful habits and ways than drugs.
Thirdly it will open up a brand new addiction, most people have self constraint, some people don't. Those people become alcoholics, addicted to food and addicted to drugs. Be it parenting, genetic preference or any other reason. Some part of society will ruin it for others. Do we want that? This is the argument of "Computer games turn people violent". As we already have gaming, eating, alcohol and fatty food we might ask is the correct decision to bring in a new popular way to recreate?
Fourthly if it does work economically the world would benefit and might actually care for the 5% who might get in trouble. Drugs will be something people would be willing to buy so for that money other aspects of our general life would be improved in the long run.
Lastly certain drugs taken at low level are beneficial. Again the 5% argument, some people will over-do it. Even alcohol has been shown to have good effect on ones health. The problem being the amount you should intake isn't a whole lot and some will over-do it.
I for one think most countries who can regulate and support the people who fall into addiction most certainly should legalize it. There is exactly 0% difference why alcohol or smoking is legal and drugs aren't. Obviously there is a difference between some grade a heroin and lower grade substances but we have that for alcohol, moonshine kills or binds people yearly, or overdrinking on 80% alcohol spirits.
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weed isnt a drug. well atleast not chemically processed. as to your question as should it be legalized, well honestly, if cigarette and alcohol is legal, then it should be. cigs and alcohol do more harm to people than weed. but with the same warning with alcohol and cigs. should use in moderation. and also, minors should not have access to it.
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I have a serious topic, and I only want truthful answers. I'm 15 I'll admit. I see kids in my High School smoking weed, talking about weed, and how it should be legalized, it disgusts me. I mean, if you're over 18 and you smoke it, that's fine, I don't really care. But, you shouldn't do drugs if you are under 18 for god's sake! I hope people who are reading this agree with me, and here is the real question. Should weed be legalized? I mean, it's somewhat proven to not be that dangerous, but I call BS on that. I truly do. I mean like I said, even if it was, even if it WAS legalized in all of the US, kids still wouldn't be allowed access to it because they are under aged! Anyone have an opinion? (Be smart, and be mature ONLY.)
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