What do you think.
"By clicking "Purchase" you agree that Valve provides you immediate access to digital content as soon as you complete your purchase, without waiting the 14-day withdrawal period. Therefore, you expressly waive your right to withdraw from this purchase."
So no refunds for you
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I'm not so sure, since European law would overrule any agreement valve may have. At least that's what I know.
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The EU law has this exception from the right for withdrawal:
Article 16
(m) the supply of digital content which is not supplied on a tangible medium if the performance has begun with the consumer’s prior express consent and his acknowledgment that he thereby loses his right of withdrawal.
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/ALL/?uri=CELEX:32011L0083
So by making us agree to give up right for refunds, they don't have to refund anymore.
E: But i'm no lawyer, that's just what I read online :p
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I don't understand about that 14 days, if you buy a game you can refund it withing these 14 days if you are from EU without giving any reasons? and how's that without charge?
And how that withdrawal period work then? Since "purchase" makes you no refunds, then how you refund if you did not buy the game, also to have a refund you have to buy something first...
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I'm not sure how well that would go. I know with Sony they have said those that dispute charges with their bank end up having their PSN account closed.
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The thing is if Steam doesn't like to provide you a refund, then someone must, so as I understand from what Klinge said I can just go to my bank account and withdraw my money from that purchase withing 14 days, and Steam just cannot do anything against it anymore because by EU laws we must have a refund within 14 days, likes it Valve or not.
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Actually no. You cannot do this via the bank. And I guess it would be really hard to do.
The background (concerning any sold product) is the following:
As a customer you have the right to check a product out prior to buying (e.g. in a shop). This doesn't mean you must be able to try all functions and use it anyway you want, but touch it look at it from all angles, and so on.
Now with mail orders you can't check a product as thoroughly as in a shop. Therefore the law was introduced which guarantees the possibility of withdrawing from a mail order. Now politicians also apply this law to digital goods.
This doesn't mean it can easily be enforced by the customers. Valve might argue, that once you activated a code or downloaded the customer is using the product (that's what they call "PERFORMANCE OF ITS OBLIGATIONS") and this isn't covered by the law anymore.
Hope I made it somewhat clearer.
Oh and one more thing:
To withdraw a order, you would have to declare the withdrawal to the vendor and sent the purchased item back. (That's another problem.) Then the vendor has to refund the customer.
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You can't get refund according to EU laws, because you agree to waive your 14 day period by clicking purchase.
It's very common thing in EU, everyone dealing with digital stuff does this.
So after you get digital product, there's no more refunds.
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You cannot waive 'statutory rights' in the EU. It's against the law. It is not legal to say in their terms and conditions 'FUCK YOU NO REFUNDS'.
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"Exceptions from the right of withdrawal
Member States shall not provide for the right of withdrawal set out in Articles 9 to 15 in respect of distance and off-premises contracts as regards the following:
(i) the supply of sealed audio or sealed video recordings or sealed computer software which were unsealed after delivery;
(m) the supply of digital content which is not supplied on a tangible medium if the performance has begun with the consumer’s prior express consent and his acknowledgment that he thereby loses his right of withdrawal."
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EU releases directives, countries have to translate these directives into actual laws, they can choose not to implement directives which will result in mostly minor fines
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Still that thing in http://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/ 3rd paragraph is just very confusing, if you cannot ask for refund after clicking purchase, then why they put this thing in the subscription saying you are able to withdraw within 14 days?
"IF YOU ARE AN EU SUBSCRIBER, YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO WITHDRAW FROM A PURCHASE TRANSACTION FOR DIGITAL CONTENT WITHOUT CHARGE AND WITHOUT GIVING ANY REASON FOR A DURATION OF FOURTEEN DAYS OR UNTIL VALVE’S PERFORMANCE OF ITS OBLIGATIONS HAS BEGUN WITH YOUR PRIOR EXPRESS CONSENT AND YOUR ACKNOWLEDGMENT THAT YOU THEREBY LOSE YOUR RIGHT OF WITHDRAWAL, WHICHEVER HAPPENS SOONER. THEREFORE, YOU WILL BE INFORMED DURING THE CHECKOUT PROCESS WHEN OUR PERFORMANCE STARTS AND ASKED TO PROVIDE YOUR PRIOR EXPRESS CONSENT TO THE PURCHASE BEING FINAL."
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They need to do an option of refund. For example I bought Vegas 2 game, and multiplayer doesn't work, and I wanted to play COOP with my friend. I should have had possibility to turn it back. They should start to care about their content and provide better service. So many games have additional software. For example when You buy Assassins Creed You need to have Uplay and activate keys there.. What if You loose Uplay account? What then?
How about games that have additional "updaters" like they couldn't update files on STEAM....
So many things changed for bad.
AND REFUND IS A MUST!
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If you loose your Uplay account that's on you and has nothing to do with Valve.
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The keys are still available through Steam, it's the other accounts you may loose access too, not the keys. If you loose access to third party accounts thats an issue to take up with the developer/publisher not Valve.
TL;DR Account security is your own responsibility.
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Yes and once You use keys via another software You can't activate them again.
If there WOULDN'T be any OTHER PLATFORMS, and keys would STAY ON STEAM, as IT SHOULD BE.
There wouldn't be any problem.
Security has nothing to do with it.
PS. I think You still didn't get my point so let me say it very SIMPLE:
KEYS ON STEAM = GOOD = NO PROBLEM
KEYS ON STEAM ACTIVATED SOMEWHERE ELSE = BAD = PROBLEM
Remember that STEAM is a platform, not a shop.
Since the beginning they were doing games that were running THROUGH steam.
Allowing other platforms and "PATCHERS" is a bad idea.
For example the most annoying thing ever downloading 13 GB of game, just to run it and realize there is a PATCHER that will download additional 7 GB, that should have been downloaded via STEAM since there is an option of REMOTE update.
If You still don't get my point, shut up and don't answer.
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They always had these rights (and more) by virtue of the existence of robust consumer protection laws in their countries, which trump any shit Valve try and weasel into their subscriber agreement.
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Yes, I think this is a very important point to acknowledge. Valve is not doing anyone any favours, in fact they should have had this from the start.
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Because EU is good. Rest of the world sucks. Exception: Japan. Because tentacles.
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The main point is- no matter what Valve says if they have agreed to sell anything in Europe they have automatically agreed to abide by European law. And that's not for some one European law in general, but many many more as each country has some differences in their customer protection laws. What goes in Croatia might not be so in Germany and so on.
Even if I agreed to sign something that Valve put in their contract, that could violate my rights as a customer from Croatia, the contract would not and does not legally bind me to it.
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All you can do is talk here, like honestly, Steam support is so fucking bad it would take ages for you to prove it, and I doubt you'd like to go to court to deal with Valve. Valve is getting worse and worse with each update, but people are still praising them.
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I don't think that would happen, European courts don't unjustly take the side of corporations as far as I know.
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If they get hit with a lot of cases it may get them to be forced to change their EULA. Plus you could also demand fees.
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No one should demand fees or be entitled to fees. The tiny percentage of games that might actually justify getting a refund are minuscule.. The only people who would actually try and use this are people too foolish with their money to make an informed purchase, or people that want to quickly beat a game and then return it. Neither one of those deserves protection or compensation for their suffering. And if the courts in a certain country proved too much trouble, Valve could always just stop doing business there. Valve doesn't have to be available in every country in the world.
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There are a lot of games on steam that would be worth a refund not a minuscule amount and read my post again.
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"Any use of your Account with your login and/or password is deemed made by you and you are responsible for it and for the security of your computer system."
Am I the only one confused by this part?
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Now that is another thing, Valve implemented the "remove links thingy" and email confirmation and with new laws regarding that , they now care less, basically , they think that if you get hacked it was due to your stupidity.
Valve should get their shit together.
And the hacking part is also due to sharing passwords, they are implementing all these new "rules" so they have excuses to not giving a fuck.
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It mainly says, you're responsible.
So if you get scammed you did something wrong. And it's up to Valves good will to return the account to you. But they're not obliged to do anything about it. (Unless you can prove the hijacking of the account happened due to lack of security on their side - that'd be real hacking) - That's how I understand it.
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If you concerned about this please contact Babe Newell to suggest a change in the steam policy, while it may not be immediately effective it may prove to be beneficial in the long term.
EU subscribers now have a 14 day window for "THE RIGHT TO WITHDRAW FROM A PURCHASE TRANSACTION FOR DIGITAL CONTENT WITHOUT CHARGE" (it may be cut short when Valve's "PERFORMANCE OF ITS OBLIGATIONS" begins though)
Source
Inb4 hurr durr pay games and refund them this is bad for da game companies because there's valve won't be flagging accounts for abuse of this feature considering how trigger happy they are when it comes to money.
Edit: They are also trying their bes to create retarded circular logic agreements to make your waive your right to a refund because you pressed the purchase button thus agreeing with their conditions. (It's legalese to dodge the fucking withdrawal period so they can continue to fuck you over without you being able to do anything).
This is nonsense and it doesn't apply in a court of law. When you buy a product from the shop, you get 'instant access'. The law was made with the full understanding the buyer would have possession of the product for a full 14 days and still be able to back out at the last minute.
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