It was 179 rubles in Russia, which is less than 2.5$, thus making it more than 95% off, compared to US price.
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shouldnt it be compared to the full regional price?
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This is exactly why it was bundled. Unfortunately there is nothing we can do about it.
If we add regions to the bundled status people in the discounted regions would just create private groups with 'region free' giveaways.
If anyone can come up with a solution we are definitely all ears.
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The problem is that CV actively promotes peeps to giveaway stuff on this site, and has benefited the community over all. It is basically the same reason why rpg elements are so popular on f2p. The sense of progression pushes peeps to do stuff that they may be more reluctant to do otherwise.
The ever expanding list is more of an issue that is outside of our control (the ruble dropping) than with the list itself :/.
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I have to agree with CJ on this one, and i would especially add this:
The folks that are prone to give either way (like you and him) won't really care about whether something is bundled or not (i mean, you're both level 10 and haven't stopped giving), whereas someone less keen to give for selfless reasons... well if they care about what is bundled or not, they certainly care about CV more than anyone.
I can't honestly envy Shobo's position right now, i feel for him, but i don't really see a better way either. :'(
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High profile bundle games (such as Lords of the Fallen or Talos) which were bundled due to cheaper regions etc earn the creator at least 30-40% cv instead of 15%. You're welcome.
I'm sure the majority of users would rather see those instead of 9900 regifted Apollo4x giveaways.
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oh no, not this again. ^^ no, please keep the CV system (at least do not completely remove it). :)
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Poor shobo. staff always says this, but noone ever seems to pay attention :P
:gesturest downward:
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Not quite, what if someone gives away a game from a bundle that the staff hasn't had time to add to the bundle list yet?
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So if I'm busy or I miss a bundle/deal/giveaway/etc and people take advantage of this to abuse the system it should be ok?
I think not.
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Groups, whitelist and private giveaways of 'region free' games get bundled CV if they've been put on the list for this reason, public region free ones get the full CV? Not ideal because it wouldn't cover every type of giveaway and wouldn't be 100% guaranteed to stop region-locked games masquerading as region free slipping through the net. By luck, the winner of a public giveaway could still be in the 'right' region, but chances are they wouldn't be. Seeing as you lose a slot for each not received, most users would end up burning them all if they tried this. For those already with 10s or 100s of slots to lose, well they'd have a huge batch of 'not received' on their profile all of a sudden and it would be obvious what they were doing.
ETA: One other snag with the above would be that it might encourage people to wait and see where their winner comes from before actually buying the game and that would in fact be exploitable. It can be done now, but there'd more incentive if it was the difference between bundled or non-bundled cv on certain giveaways.
Another suggestion I've seen people make a couple of times was that as you can limit which giveaways we see based on our region, could you not also track where the entrants came from? That might give a big hint if a game in a group giveaway was region free or 'region free', and the system could reward either the bundled CV if it was deemed to be 'region free' or the full CV if it deemed it genuinely region free (assuming the game was on the bundle list for this reason of course).
Whatever you do, even if that's nothing, I know it's a tough task and decision(s), and that people will still complain on some level. Thanks for all your efforts.
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Regions to bundle status and "whitelisting" groups, where only groups that are on "group whitelist" are getting full CV?
Unless I'm totally wrong SG already reads IP to get various data (ads, for example), which meaans it can be automated process to see if members of said group are from one steam-region or if they are multiregional.
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Starting point could be CV = US Price*entries/users registered. Not possible to (easily) abuse, region locked or otherwise restricted giveaways give less cv. Less popular/wanted (bundled) also give less cv.
Points to think/check: how fast entries drop after new bundle hits and what to do with price glitches
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most likely so, same deal with wolfenstein: the new order, if CV is important to you when doing giveaways, always check through the bundled games list before you give it away to make sure:
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I checked, it wasn't there. CV is not that important to me. But I did spent 20€ to make non-bundled GAs, not bundled.
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ah, I completely understand, I understand your frustration, there's not much I can do for you :( - maybe vent your frustrations to support on SG?
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Yeah it's really stupid. You have to check prices for a game you want to giveaway in each region and do calculations to see will it be added to bundle games or not.
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easy for you to say, you have your own planet now (:
^_^
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this is getting out of hand..with russian store :S
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my issue with it is that the items sold in the russian store are RU/CIS now, not ROW, so why should the ROW games suffer? A ROW Version of a game and a RU/CIS version of a game are not 1:1 in value in my opinion.
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5 Ruskies form an invite-only group and give away their CIS edition as ROW here. Try to prove it.
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I agree, there are loopholes! :( - I'm just talking and sharing my gripes. at the end of the day - there will always be faults in any system, no matter how fair it actually is.
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it seems as if soon every game will be considered bundled.
been thinking the same thing, haha.
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I agree. Some of the games on the bundle list need to be made to apply only regionally if it's for this reason then. Well, now you can forget about seeing very many giveaways for these games anymore. If the purpose of this site is to deter giveaways for games then I must applaud the effort. Classic example of yet another broken system on here.
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maybe because of the humble monthly? not sure why though if it's a bonus and not a game in the actual humble monthly.
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If you're giving away games for CV, then you're doing it wrong.
Every once in a while some guy creates a thread like that asking why something gets bundled, or why did his CV drop.
There is NO official 95% rule, it's a subjective opinion and decision of the bundler, he could as well bundle 90% game if he considers that it's proper.
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Before speaking read the reply above -.- and I was said, I know it works
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I'm not sure if you do because you're asking why game was added to the bundle list, and the reason is:
Games may also be added to the bundle list if they're available for free during a promotion, or if they're highly discounted in a sale.
From the FAQ.
So yeah, your games were heavily discounted or given away for free. Is this the answer you need? Because this is the only official answer you'll get.
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Then why you're asking? Because to me it seems like classical butthurt thread created every once in a while.
No, I'm not making fun of you, I understand that you can be frustrated, but nobody guaranteed you that those -75% games you're buying will NOT be added to the bundle list, as there is no official statement how big the discount should be for the game to be considered as bundled. It's clearly stated that it can happen in the FAQ, so instead of asking "Why", make a thread stating "I'm not happy how it works".
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Then again Archi, when you buy a game for 75% off you don't expect it to count as bundled, I mean at this rate a lot of people that DO care about CV will stop giving away good games at a good discount because they won't get any CV for them.
Obviously, we don't care about CV ;D
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Agreed, but if somebody is giving away game just because it got discounted and can boost his CV with it, I don't see it as necessary good as well, even if the game goes to a guy who enjoys it.
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It's probably because if you end up spending some cash (20 euros in this case), even though you're perhaps not aiming to boost your CV, subconsciously there is still a disappointment when you reach a higher CV level, to only go down to the one before because of retroactive adds to the bundle list. I totally agree people shouldn't be bothered about CV, but we're not in an ideal world, therefore when you spend money on non-bundled discounted games, you expect something in return (In the form of CV in this case).
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More than likely it feels a bit strange to spend some real bucks on a game, then the site comes and tells you "thanks for throwing in another cheap bundle leftover to the mix".
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That's why I say that it can be frustrating, and I understand that it's heavily discouraging for people to give away unbundled stuff. But if somebody considers every bundled game as "trash" or "worse" just because it's bundled, then he's using this site in the wrong way as well.
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People just consider them cheap, and there is an instinct that tells you if it is cheap, it is not that good as an expensive one.
Except when the game is up for trade. The prices people ask for Humble Bundle stuff sometimes makes me almost fall off from my chair. Even G2A profit margins are better.
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But wouldn't the exact same issue happen, had he bought the game and the game happened to actually become bundled the very next day and prior to him making the GA? In some weekly HB or such or such?
Because i'm sure that has happened to several people...
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My Divinity: Dragon Commander keys from GamesRocket agree on that.
Still, yes, it can happen, but the chances are a lot lower. Especially when it is outside the indie/casual territory, because not many sites run games outside these.
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Well, maybe... but lower compared to what? ;)
In the universe of the total of games that are considered bundled for the reason stated on this thread and were considered AAA-esque (loose and highly subjective definition :P) there aren't that many... i'd say the odds of what happened to motivated this thread we're so low, that hadn't they been, the thread wouldn't even exist. :P
Not trying to nitpick, mind you... just saying. :)
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I asked "Was the discount in another region over 90%/95%?" Read before writing -.-
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exactly. and thats why i think how CV should just go away alltogether.
yeah in an ideal world, people would give away games because they are cool and kind and whatnot. But as we dont live in ideal world, and level restricted giveaways are a very real thing, coupled with the fact how most people dont actually have unlimited budget, its only natural for people to chase the carrot, so to speak :)
the truth is, end result of such a game being on bundled list is - much less giveaways of mordor and other games that suffered mordors fate. Yeah i know all about cv and whatnot, but cv is real and so are sg levels too. So we can pretend its not here, and how everyone is going to buy games for $10 to get $6 cv, but i dont really think thats how it is in reality :P
The main thing i have problem with is, cv was made a year or more ago when there werent nearly as many games on the bundled list. And it wasnt touched ever since. Now we have like half of steam games on bundled list, that only occasionally (or never) show up here again. Despite being on a very decent % off on steam/elsehwere. I blame cv for that too. no really i do :o
that list only gets bigger with time, but cv/levels system has failed to adjust. Soon enough any game that gets a 85% or so sale will end up on bundled list and only way for such a game to show up on sg is if it gets bundled (for real this time around). Bigger publishers games suffer from same problem too because they usually feature in 1 bundle and never again, but they dont really show up here past their bundle date.
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Current system is flawed and if nothing will be done about it, soon the situation will be worse. Problem is, there will be always people trying to abuse the system, and until system will be % based, and not 0-1 based, there will be always that "one small point" which is abusable to the limits.
I already suggested a sample way of fighting with that issue, but don't get your hopes too high, we'll most likely never see it live, unless cg starts working on SGv3 perhaps.
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yeah i know that much. every time i bring up a "KILL CV WITH FIRE" topic people go crazy and start talking about abusers and such.
i say, let the community (us) deal with those people. It shouldnt be that hard to catch a few of them right away, and once we make an example of those people (throw them to tigers? :D) .... :p
and lets not pretend the system isnt umm... cheateable (is that a word) now too. What exactly is stopping someone from buying a 94% off region locked games and giving them away here, even if thats not their own region? Or does someone really think they wont do it because its 94% and not 95% ? :x
i mean, we could just ignore this thing until all steam games, get on the list, but that wont make the problem go away though (:
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Of course it is, most of my giveaways are bundled because I tend to use this site as a site where I can give away my bundle leftovers to people that will appreciate it, either because they're game collectors like me, or they'd actually enjoy it as a game. That doesn't however mean that I'm not making any non-bundled giveaways.
Problem is, most people treat CV as some kind of competition. People are greedy bastards trying to exploit the current system to the limits, otherwise they wouldn't need actual values and just common sense when it comes to CV. If somebody gives away games because he likes to, he won't care about CV that much, he'll use it more like a value telling him how much he gave away. If somebody is however giving away games JUST to boost his CV, he's doing it wrong, regardless if his plan works or not, and those people will be the "victims", because their excellent master plan of gaining as much as possible while spending as little as possible failed.
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yeah and while i agree with most of your points, i still firmly believe how people who want to actually give away games are very much affected by this thing though. Maybe even more so than cv farmers, in a long term.
As i already said, even people who give away mostly unbundled games have limited income and its normal they still want to get some cv for their contribution (as long as cv is here thats it), and buying a $12 game but getting $6 cv for it, can be a very demotivating, regardless of their initial motive.
I said how it can be worse for "non exploiters" kind because im sure they are (were?) more likely to stay here and keep on contributing in the future, unlike cv hunters who arent likely to make giveaways once they achieve their desired level.
Regardless, this is my tldr for current cv system:
its a system that (passively? actively? both?) prevents people from giving away games, on a site thats dedicated to... well, giving games away. And thats probably one of reasons why i dont really like it all that much :P
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It's completely fucked up. Nowhere in the world russia has that Influence, that it has on SG. I concetrate on giving away bundled games. Cannot be SG's standard.
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Trine 3 now counts as bundled too. Bought 3 copies at 75%.
I'm no longer lv 7. I don't really care for CV, but If I spend money to give bundled game, I don't really want them to count as bundled (specially considering the money I spent: 3 copies of Trine 3 and 2 of Lords of the Fallen).
These holidays I spent quite a bit money making sure I gave away bundled games. It hardly seems fair and, in honestly, demotivates users to create more GAs.
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And that is why the majority of the giveaways are of games nobody cares about.
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I don't really care for CV
if this were true, this thread wouldn't exist
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How about reading the rest? "I don't really care for CV, but If I spend money to give bundled game, I don't really want them to count as bundled"
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don't you understand that the latter part contradicts the former? Because if you don't care about cv then it doesn't matter if the game is bundled or not.
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I do care if it is bundled since the person who won it will enjoy it more. I spent a lot of money so some users could get games that are hardly given away. Most of the games I gave away (non-bundled) I don't even own them.
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People enjoy games more based on their bundle status? That seems petty odd to me. I usually judge my games on their entertainment value :/
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"games that are hardly given away". I don't know about you but perhaps you consider the price of Lords of the Fallen or Trine 3 cheap (even w/ discount). I do not. I like to collect badges and cards and I had to sell most of them so other people could enjoy those games.
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Nope, never said anything about cheap. If your goal was to create a rare giveaway then you achieved that and you can feel good about it. The fact that the giveaway is now considered bundled does not change the fact that it is a game rarely given away. "bundled" and "rare" are not mutually exclusive. There are over 4,500 items on the bundled list, I'm sure there are quite a few that hardly ever get given away. The only reason to complain about it being bundled is because you were expecting to be "rewarded" with CV, so don't make such a complaint and then claim to "not care about CV". That's all I'm saying.
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and once again you are implying how, somehow its bad that people want to chase that carrot on the stick? Why give them that carrot at the first place? :P
Seriously now, im really getting tired of things being like they are now - where people who actually want to donate games, are getting demotivated by CV system, while at the same time theres a bunch of people yelling at them for caring about rewards system. Same system that was by the way put in place to motivate people. In a way very similar to MMO games.
CV is real, and so are level restricted giveaways. And as long as thats how things work, you should expect people to care about it. Yeah some might care a bit less, some more, but as long as its there you cant just put a blame on people and call it a day.
hence my last desperate call for... kill cv with fire ! :p
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I never said there's anything wrong with caring about CV or "chasing that carrot". I've done it plenty myself. I'm just saying don't claim to not care, and then create a thread demonstrating that you clearly do.
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not everyone is rich enough not to care if he spent $12 or $2 to get something, mind you.
it has nothing to do with cv on its own, its just a common sense. He doesnt have to care about cv per se, but he might, god forbid, care about his money spent though.
We all (well like 99,99% of us) are trying to get the best deal possible when it comes to steam games, and i even know people who wont buy a game if its not on its historical lowest or very close to it.
But when it comes to giveaways, apparently, we shouldnt really care if we paid $12 or $2 for it? Because thats what it boils down to.
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I know this isnt the point, but if it helps you feel better at all, I really appreciate the game whether it is bundled or unbundled ^_^
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Thank you. It was also a good way to get achievements on BQ.
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and now this is what i call a constructive reply.
i wish there were more people like you.
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i just dont get whats his problem. if i get it maybe i can be more helpful. he just didnt get something he dont cares about. so he misses nothing. so there is no problem. so i dont get all the cry
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its just an expression. Im pretty much 100% positive how most people here dont have unlimited funds, and thus they do care if their $12 game gets a $1 bundle value. And i cant blame those people either, so naturally im not jumping on his back like some other people are :o
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the game itself keeps its value. or did they shorten it in any way? if yes sry. i thought only sg shortened it value in cv. and if he says the truth (what i believe) i dont really understand the problem.
and dont get me wrong, i was asking (replying) him, at least it was my intention to do so, and not you. or are u the op with an alt account?
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Because this is getting ridiculous.
Because "good" games like Trine 3, Lords of the Fallen etc. that people may actually want, get bundled, nobody wants to gift them. So we have thousands of bundled giveaways of games nobody cares about. Before I get hated on, I appreciate every gift being given away, and I'm not entering for the games that I don't want.
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Wait, Trine 3 is a good game now? Since when? Or did I miss something?
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yeah, I recently gave away a handful of "group wishlist games" I wasn't after the CV, but when I suddenly shot up to lvl 3 from it... it made me happy. so if those games get bundled and I drop back down because of russia, it'll be a bit disappointing.
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Seriosly 10€ game shouldn't be added to Bundled list....
And once again I will say this SG should make another category like bundled games , example if bundled games count as 15% of CV
than Heavy Steam Discounted games should be like between 40-50% of full CV
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CV should not be 0-1 based. The amount of CV you're getting should be based on maximum discount that was available at given time, but that won't happen because it would be too hard to maintain for people. That's one of the reasons why I allow my group members to set their own value for every giveaway they do, because one game worth 15$ is not equal to another game worth 15$, even if they were both given in the same bundle.
Until that happen, giving away non-bundled giveaway is a sort of gamble, because it's always possible that 1 year ago the game was heavily discounted and it will be added to the bundle list with retro-active date of 1 year back e.g. tomorrow.
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pretty much this. Something should really be done about the list rather sooner than later.
If they insist on keeping CV (which im against), it really could use some adjustment before 75% of steam games end up on bundled list.
As it is now the system makes no difference between a game that was bundled once, 2 years ago, or was $3 in russian store (and $12 elsewhere) and something that was in a bundle of 18 games for $1.
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So...
If a Giveaway(!) is ROW and that game falls well within the Bundled "limit" it will give full CV.
If that Giveaway is not(!) ROW and that region had it priced above the Bundled "limit" that non-ROW GA gives only 15%...
That way the "guilty" region suffers, not everybody...?
That would require an extra column in the bundled list and an extra automatic rule check during GA creation...
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This won't be possible because people could just create groups and send "row" gifts there without them actually being row, to get full CV. It's too easy to exploit.
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So just remove group and whitelist functionality? ;)
Oh, and Blacklist too I guess, or they will blacklist 50.000 people to create a "whitelist"
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Boyo, I get why you are frustrated but ...
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The only way to check before hand, is to look on steamdb and check the Russian (or rare cases, other lowest) price against ROW, and see if it's at all close to 95% off.
It's clunky, but it seems to work quite reliably i you err on the side of caution.
The stress over 'is this game bundled' comes from sg not making use of steamdb for reference clear, so many people don't know use it; and the 95% off rule not being concrete, meaning there's always uncertainty around that point.
Other than that, the current system works fine- it's less a flawed system, and more a poorly presented one, I think.
On another note, sorry about Trine, 75% off really should be safe, that's a cruddy outcome for you. :(
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Trine 3 was done in by the 3 pack by the looks of it. 262 rubles or $3.58 US. Divide that by 3 and bingo :/.
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I used isthereanydeal. I was on the fence about Lords of the Fallen but the Trine 3 was safe. Oh well, I have to forget although is hard to forget the money I spent :|
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steamdb pulls straight from steam, it should be up to date.
As Cj noted above, this one may have just been really unfortunte, since it'd have been hard to remember to check the 3-pack, regardless of site used. :/
Live and learn.. :X
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I'm with you, this sucks balls. Totally. Now even 75% off games go there? Where will it stop?
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75% off the 3 pack is the issue, not the 75% discount itself. It is getting close to 75% being the cut off though if the ruble drops anymore -.-.
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Its not 75 it was like upto 90% i think in ru thats y bundled
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Btw, Monochroma should actually be added to that list too, just saying :P
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You don't need to prove nothing and I agree, it sucks hard :\
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Wait, if you gifted a game and it gets bundled you lose lvls?
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Well, that sucks.... those people bought it for the full price and still lose CV. That should change
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If your GA was created before the date went into a bundle or went on a "bundle-quality" sale price, you get full CV.
BUT -- there's only one person on SG who adds games to the bundle list, so it's not always 100% up to date, and Shobo will set the bundled date to the date the game was actually at bundled price, which can retro-actively affect CV if you gave the game away after that date.
for example:
You create GA for game X on Jan 1, game X goes into a bundle on Jan 3rd --- you get full CV
You create GA for game X on Jan 6th, Shobo can set the bundled date to Jan 3rd at any time --- you get bundled CV.
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aw, a friendly soul in such a dark, foreboding place? faith restored :')
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i hate you steamgifts. i've had sex for money in order to buy a copy of lords of the fallen and it's bundled because some folks known as CYKA BLAT GROUP (no offense, they seem to always use that expression in number of multiplayer games) were able to buy it for 2,5$. WELL I WAS NOT. i spent 10e on this.
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Let's all donate money to russia to fix the ruble and save our nonbundled giveaways!
For Narniaaaaaaaaa
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I'll donate a bottle of vodka ^^ Please butthurt people don't hunt me down!
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the lack of a bundle rule will ALWAYS comes up. :D
while someone have the power to do anything they want that affects directly devs and steamgifts users, this discussion will never disappear. since some users just don't care at all for whatever reason when some others do care for whatever reason, nothing will change.
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I noticed that I lost quite a bit of CV: used SGTools to find out that Lords Of The Fallen now counts as a bundled game.
I gave 2 copies last week but before I made sure it wasn't bundled anywhere. The discount was only of 80%. Was the discount in another region over 90%/95%?
I spent ~20€ on those GAs. It hardly seems fair that these changes are retroactive.
EDIT: Yes, I understand how bundled games on SG work (I gave away several games that became bundled due to their prices/ discounts on another regions).
EDIT2: Trine 3 now counts as bundled too. Bought 3 copies to give away at 75%.
I'm no longer lv 7. I don't really care for CV, but If I spend money to give bundled game, I don't really want them to count as bundled (specially considering the money I spent: 3 copies of Trine 3 and 2 of Lords of the Fallen).
These holidays I spent quite a bit money making sure I gave away bundled games. It hardly seems fair and, in honestly, demotivates users to create more GAs.
AGAIN, for those saying I care most about CV than giving away:
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