-- Update: http://steamcommunity.com/games/407840/announcements/detail/814405855450220211 ---

So apparently Activision has removed ORION from Steam. This was done via a DMCA takedown request stating:

“on behalf of Activision, who alleges that the game Orion uses weapon art content from Call of Duty: Black Ops 3 and Call of Duty: Advanced Warfare. The weapon art in question includes the M8A7 rifle, the Haymaker rifle, and the Bal-27 rifle."

Continued: http://steamcommunity.com/games/104900/announcements/detail/834671877728578774

https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/4q62xb/activision_removed_a_game_from_steam_via_dmca/

Facedesk
As if you've never needed more reasons to dislike Activision.

7 years ago*

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I imagine that can be fixed pretty easily. So it will probably come back.

7 years ago
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From the post -

(Comparison 1 - Auto Shotgun)
http://i.imgur.com/8Qx1NI2.png

(Comparison 2 - Auto Rifle)
http://i.imgur.com/IjS7dfO.png

If those are close enough to get it taken down, they would probably have to revert to rocks to make it different enough lol

7 years ago
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I'm not a fan of Activision and I find it stupid that they got a $1 game removed in the middle of the summer sale, but I can see why they viewed it as a DMCA situation, I mean, look at that second picture that you posted and also this.

7 years ago
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Did you get your money back or any kind of a refund or credit?

7 years ago
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Why would you? People that already bought it still have it. It's just not available to buy anymore.

7 years ago
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This is probably the real issue
http://i.imgur.com/ZQeBNGs.png

7 years ago
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+1

7 years ago
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Auto rifle one linked above also has near-identical stock, trigger and magazine housing on the rear end of the gun.

7 years ago
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I don't see it, stock is a different shape, magazine isn't even remotely similar, and the only similarity between the triggers is that they have a rectangular guard, the triggers themselves aren't even the same shape...

Also, where the M8A7 "look-alike"'s sight connects, it doesn't look at all alike, and the depths and shapes and stuff are different, too.

7 years ago*
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Just look at the aim-sight (or whatever it's called). It's exactly the same. With exactly the same pattern below it...

7 years ago
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This. I was mislead too, but they're just lying to cover their asses.

Using false evidence to rally people to their side and it's a lot easier with how crappy Activision is.

7 years ago
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Just gonna leave this here... I have no opinion one way or another... https://i.sli.mg/xpIy1W.png

7 years ago
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F*ck, it was really cheap. I should have bought it :(

7 years ago
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+1 :(

7 years ago
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If you still want Orion, I have a gift copy of it.

7 years ago
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Nah, not really. I posted the comment a few minutes after the thread was openned, then I read a little about it and it looks like activision was right this time. Not sure about a game that might die before leaving early access.
But thanks for the offer :)

7 years ago
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No problem ^^ It would be a shame if the game franchise would end, but I also feel that the devs should just change the gun models (and anything else too similar), even if they disagree. It could save their franchise.

7 years ago
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They'll probably find a way, they could take a few weeks off steam and rework some assets. But I doubt they make it in time before the sale ends.
The thing is that if activision decides to use the legal system to crush them they'll probably succeed, money can buy the best lawyers.

7 years ago
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and anywho. before steam summer sale it was only $0.99 just like their first game. and they were just about to rollout a big update too after the sale or so :(

7 years ago
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7 years ago
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The weapon is just a look-alike, not entirely the same. Look in the comments above for the entire model.

7 years ago
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Deserved if those are actually the guns in question.

7 years ago
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I was all ready to defend orion but damn... that top part is virtually identical

7 years ago
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Who cares. Cars look a like all the time. You can't take down something for 1 small part looking similar. It's BS.

7 years ago
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well I agree with you.. DMCA'ing a whole game for something that could have been solved with an update, that's going too far.
these are crazy times we live in..

7 years ago
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They don't look alike actually. If you want to put a real-life car into a game, you have to license it, and they can cost a pretty penny sometimes. (And if you are making a racing game and want them to get damaged… well, there is a reason even a giant like EA doesn't like to make games like that.)

Same with weapons. If Activision's studios designed a new weapon look, they have a copyright claim on it. And in this case Orion's two guns are close enough for any court to agree with Activision.

The other question, the more serious one here is again with the DMCA takedown practise, where the content owner can file a claim and the service provider just goes through with it without ever asking the accused. This is the digital equivalent of getting arrested and held in prison without revealing the accusation.

7 years ago
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Except they have a history of doing this with other developers. They're not just stealing from Activision, this is just the only one that's been made internet-famous.

7 years ago
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Yeah, it seems that the ORION weapon was "put together" by parts from weapons of CoD

4 models making a "new weapon".

It is presumed (and most likely) this is the issue, as it was claimed in the DMCA notification received by the developer. They say they will change it http://steamcommunity.com/gid/103582791433474819/announcements/detail/834671877729096914

View attached image.
7 years ago*
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That's so retarded, though. "Oh, that gun takes similarly looking pieces and combines them into something entirely different, they can't use our guns as a basis for their designs."

There are so many stupid people in this world, I can't stand it.

7 years ago
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If the artist responsible for the weapon design extracted the meshes directly from Activision's game, then that is copyright infringement.
Which is extremely suspicious given the model/parts similarities.

How would Activision claim that without infringing copyright laws (reverse engineering) another devs content? I don't know.

7 years ago
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In the real world, if you would manufacture a gun like that—just combining parts of other weapons into a new one—you would get sued so much, even your great-great-great-great-great-great-grandchildren would be paying the debt.

7 years ago
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Nope, because I'm not selling or sharing it... And I would have bought those guns for my use...

Also, video games are not the real world (sadly) and a few similarities between 2 guns that aren't even close to 1/100th of this game shouldn't be DMCA worthy...

P.S. Even if I was manufacturing those guns for sale IRL, the original manufacturers would be making many times more money so they'd still be retarded for stopping it...

7 years ago*
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It is. Same as if you plagiarise only a page in your doctorate thesis, they won't care if the other 300 are your work, it will still get denied.

7 years ago
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So if I submit a video game that I make 100% from scratch as my doctorate thesis it won't get denied? Ok, I'll take your word for it, I guess...

Also, I guess no doctorate thesis should be accepted, because my guess is they all use the plenty of the same words through ought the entire paper, probably making up much more than those similar pieces of guns make up of that $1 game...

7 years ago*
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I have no idea how you managed to draw this conclusion… o.0

7 years ago
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It's just cause you said that doctorate thesis papers, real life, and video games should all be treated the same, and if there's anything that someone else used in there paper or in their game, other people shouldn't be able to use similar things without running risk of punishment.

(I would never try to submit a video game as an essay just like I would never kill someone playing paintball against me because I don't treat completely different things as if they correlate directly, that's all.)

7 years ago
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Because all fall into the same category: intellectual property. And many people fail to realise that just because there is no physical product behind something, they still can enjoy the same legal protection against idea theft. Because ideas alone can make you rich. Just look at some of the known famous idea thieves like Thomas Edison or Bob Kane, who made a fortune exploiting others' work and selling it as their own.

7 years ago
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You do realize different colleges of a university have different submissions... right? Not everyone submits papers. The same logic applies. Would you giggle if he said a painting instead of a game?

7 years ago
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So you could submit a 300-page video game as a doctorate thesis in some colleges? That would be pretty interesting, I guess...

7 years ago
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Not everyone submits papers.

.

So you could submit a 300-page video game as a doctorate thesis in some colleges?

....
You could submit a game as part of your thesis.

7 years ago
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You're arguing that they can't defend their own designs, but while you're half-right in that anyone can make a gun like that, this isn't the case.

They're not just copying the design, they're literally ripping the product and putting it into their game, piece-by-piece in obscure ways.

7 years ago
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Similar sights and top bit, but really? Worth DMCAing over?

7 years ago
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Takes down an entire FREE game for a look-alike weapon. Good job Activision.

7 years ago
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It's not a free game, though it is dirt cheap, and isn't allowed here due to mass giveaways of it before.

7 years ago
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I beleive one of the Orion games is free?

7 years ago
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Nope, both are just dirt cheap.

7 years ago
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Well one was available to get for free for a period of time I'm pretty sure.

7 years ago
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Remember this?
https://www.steamgifts.com/discussion/BWjVZ/free-10000-copies-of-guardians-of-orion-private-access-ended

He claimed he would give 10k copies, collected some thousands of legitimate emails, then he backed out, then he offered again but he changed the offer through youtube , then he chose to give to whoever he wanted, then ..case closed.

Many close friends including me , never received the so-call "free copy" even though we were almost first to the party and followed every obstacle rule imposed by the dev -not to mention almost all of us have bought his previous game at some earlier time.

Some might say all this drama today, is some kind of divine justice. ;)

7 years ago*
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Oh yeah, I never did get my copy. Guess that explains why.

7 years ago
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Seems like the devs are pretty shitty overall to me. If this is true then I don't feel bad for them at all.

7 years ago
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that is the gun in question

View attached image.
7 years ago
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They look alike, but not the same.

7 years ago
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actually, every assault rifle look a like

7 years ago
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Indeed, so why the fuss Activision?

7 years ago
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The sights look similar, so Activision wants to believe they were robbed or some shit like that.

7 years ago
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Because some parts look exactly the same. There is no way a developer would make a weapon were several parts look exactly the same as parts of weapons from another game. Sure, they can look similar, but they are exactly the same. Just look at this

7 years ago
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7 years ago
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I don't agree with the takedown, but there seems to be some deception from the Orion dev, that gun is being compared to a different gun seen here:

View attached image.
7 years ago
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better to to take down metro too then, it look pretty similar to me

View attached image.
7 years ago
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It's not the whole gun that is similar, but the iron-sight(?), the circled part in the image. You could've also looked at the other pic others are posting, the back part in the iron-sight also has the blue circle in the back. And again I didn't say they should've taken it down, just mentioning that the similarities are about different stuff than what the Orion devs are saying.

7 years ago
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7 years ago
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Activision has every right to do it, IF they can prove that the assest used were ripped from their game. Not sure if this will have to go to court (maybe if the Orion devs press the matter). I can see some elements that look very similar if not the same, but I'd think certain parts on guns are just going to look alike at a certain point, no?

7 years ago
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Well, I don't know the legal situation too well, but there are certainly similarities, see http://i.imgur.com/ZQeBNGs.png

Either way, I feel that Activision could have contacted the makers of Orion before taking this move (a developer claims they did not).

EDIT: Of course, if there are more very similar assets and Activision feel they have a solid case, I guess I have no reason to take umbrage.

7 years ago*
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Good point, contacting them first might have been a more PR friendly way to do it.

7 years ago
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So, Activision released BO3 way before ORION...

View attached image.
7 years ago
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AFAIK it's about some sequely thingie? But, it's not like patches can't add new weapons.

7 years ago
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Really? Over some weapon art? They're down to that?

7 years ago
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7 years ago
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Man. I love the Orion Choco Pie.

7 years ago
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7 years ago
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It really looks like the pics in the OP were taken from the most dissimilar angle though.

The claim isn't that the entire weapon was taken, but significants parts look identical down to a pixel (mostly the sights as seen from the user's end).

7 years ago
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7 years ago
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Specific parts of the models appear to be straight rips with texture alterations. It's not noticeable when you look at the guns as a whole, but there are image links further back in the thread that highlight the ripped pieces.

7 years ago
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Course the guns are ultimately based on real weapons. So are we going to get gun manufacturers sueing Activision for using the guns in CoD?

7 years ago
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There is a mile of difference between creating content based around things observable in reality (like actual brands of vehicle, weapons, specific fatigues, etc), and outright taking some other developer's created content and using it as your own in a commercial product.

What you're talking about is a licensing issue.
What I'm talking about (and what iis actually happening here) is that pieces of content are being taken and used in a commercial product without consent. A better comparison would be an upstart gun company stealing pieces of guns from another company, using them as part of the assembly on their own gun, and then selling it as their own work without acquiring any rights or permissions, and without recompense or negotiation to those they're taking from.

Just because the content is digital, and just because the whole models were not ripped intact, it doesn't mean what they're doing is any less wrong. Why would you defend this?

7 years ago
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Activision takes example from a real world weapon and puts it in one of their games.
Then claims that another developer took their assets because they visually look the same - is it possible that the assets were taken from CoD, sure.
Is it possible that the assets were based on a real world weapon, just like Activision's was?

I'm saying its a bit cheeky for Activision to claim this when they themselves are using other existing items as a basis for their own stuff.
Which enters this in a shady area when it comes to who took what from whom.

7 years ago
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Sorry but you didn't really pay attention.
This isn't a matter of looking similar, this is a matter of ataking actual pieces of someone else's digital models. Not making their own that just happens to look similar, but an actual equivalent of a copy-paste of sections of the 3D meshes. It's not that they look the same it's that pieces of them ARE the same, if the accusations are accurate. Judging from the pictures that highlight the specific parts (like the sighting section), it seems to be the case. Realistically modelled gun sections will always look similar, but in this case the similarities are at a point where that could just be a texture switch. I'll link to someone else's image earlier in the thread, seeing as you haven't gone back to check.

While Activision made their stuff based on real brands, they actually made their own work. The other dev seems to have stolen actual pieces of someone else's work (again, the models themselves). Maybe not whole models, but pieces. That's still stealing, and it's kind of a big deal when you're using it in a product you're selling.

You also assume that Activision didn't do their due research when it comes to modelling after real guns. Given they're a big company and haven't faced legal action, they are most likely in the right (or acquired rights to depict the weapons, whatever). That's the key difference, what the smaller dev did, if as accused, is clearly in a legal nope-zone. :P

View attached image.
7 years ago*
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So are we going to get gun manufacturers sueing Activision for using the guns in CoD?

That could very well happen, if they tried to replicate a real gun, or part thereof. That's why they, and every other game company that tries to create shooters set in a modern setting, are very careful with how they design their guns, so that they don't infringe on anyone else's property. I'm sure Activision have people who carefully check every single gun model to make sure that they are not too close to any real gun that's protected.

7 years ago
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7 years ago
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No, they wait for them to become hits, then sue them for millons in courts.

Like Spirit suing Led Zeppelin for Stairway to Heaven allegedly plagiarizing their song (looks like in the end and after some losing, Zeppelins finally won, but then I have no idea if that was final win or there will be any more appeals).

7 years ago
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7 years ago
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destroyed :3

7 years ago
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Isn't the reason it looks similar because its the same gun? Like if I put the sun in my game, it'd look like the same sun in someone elses game because its the fucking sun.

7 years ago
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Nope. The guns as a whole look quite different, it's more that specific pieces of the models appear to have been stolen. At a glance, they appear totally different, but when you look closely you see specific parts are pretty much copy-pastes with texture tweaks. Images are further back in the thread that highlight the specifics.

7 years ago
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Uh-oh, better watch out then. I might have to remove the sun from my game because it looks awfully similar to the sun from some other games...

7 years ago
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I see why activision feels so threatened by this game.

7 years ago
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Ha xD Yeah, I was a bit baffled that they went through the trouble to send out a DMCA, get it removed from Steam, when it is 0.99 game. It feels over the top. On the other hand, I suppose Activision makes no exceptions whether it is a cheap Indie game or a big showrunner.

7 years ago
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I'm not saying they should have immediatly removed it from steam. but why does it matter how big the game is? If they steal your assets, why should you just let it go? It's not a matter of them feeling threatened, but of a company stealing their work. I'd be pretty pissed too if someone just copied something I worked on for so long.

7 years ago
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At first I thought this was about the visual novel called Orion.

7 years ago
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Ahh shit,i was looking forward to that game.

7 years ago
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I have a couple of copies of Orion left over. If you would still like to play it, I can gift it.

7 years ago
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That would be insanely generous of you,and i would appreciate it.

7 years ago
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It was a cheap game though, so I would not call it all that generous ;)
I'll add you and send it your way (you can recognize me by my avatar).

7 years ago
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I believe you can still buy it here? http://store.steampowered.com/sub/80561
Edit: nope

7 years ago*
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Nope, steam denies the purchase :(

7 years ago
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I tried, steam slows to a halt and then gives me an error message.
Seems like valve knows how to stop us from buying stuff :P

7 years ago
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Now that i have better internet i was thinking of grabbing it,i suppose it will be back they just have to change whatever is contested i doubt its the gun itself but the sites so it just a matter of changing those i would think.

7 years ago
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7 years ago
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Not high, unless Prelude also uses stolen/copied assets.

7 years ago
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even if it is intented to look alike, since when is enough to take down and entire game just because it kind off looks like a little piece of yours...

7 years ago
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October 28, 1998

Edit: If Orion devs thinks it doesn't contain what Activision claims, they could've filled counter-claim and it would've been over until Activision gave up or took them to the court.

7 years ago
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-rep activision

7 years ago
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Craptivision

7 years ago
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Well that sucks, i was going to get it after selling a few sale cards.

7 years ago
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Sad, sad. That game was just awesome ;<
Kill a T-Rex with a rocket launcher or while flying in a jetpack, Why not?

7 years ago
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or both, shooting rocket launcher in the air while filying jetpack

7 years ago
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7 years ago
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