Do you think the government should monitor and collect data on our online activity?
No problem :)
And, yes, I may have to move at this rate!
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I'm pretty sure most major world governments already do this, whether it is technically legal or not. At least the UK is letting people know and making it official. Now as to what each government classifies as an actionable offense... that's what you will want to base your nation of residence on.
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Again what is wrong with government photocopying your letters and recording your phone calls. Maybe even tracking you and seeing who you interact with, that person you excused on subway might have been terrorist so ofc you are also a terrorist.
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Good point!
Everyone should have GPS device to track location. And if government agency would spot group of 3 - 4 non-christians in "shady location" - BAM! They are caught, terrorist attack is prevented, everyone is happy, they give themselves awards and go to home.
Yop, it's irony. Don't kille me
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Well catholicism is part of christian faith (along with protestantism and orthodoxy) :D
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Well I think that catholicism is far more intollerant than protestantism. That's why I wrote it that way.
And you know that I never had any info about IRA on my history lessons? I just know about it from my geography course. That's sad that they don't want to teach about stuff like that. But I kind of understand them, here catholicism is considered as only right religion and any words agains it (and pointing that there are catholic terrorist organisations, and not only islam have them) is considered as attack on whole "holy" church. Meh.
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b-b-b-but terrorists, so why not give up the freedums (privacy) and have safety instead - you can trust the guys who monitor the and stick the data to you, them and the guys who watch over those guys, absolutley you can trust the commity-1 who watches over those who watches over ... and don't worry if you're some kind of goody2shoes activist/spokesman for rights & whatever, oh boy then well keep you really safe aye matey?
^ in other words "they who watch over us" and "those who watch over them" are bound to become the new terror if their ever even able to
do so properly - which is highly to be doubted, much like the purpose as a whole: keep the "democracy" and any spokesman/uprising
in check, and kill off any "unlikeable = dangerous" activity before its gets "uncomfortable"
i'm not in the UK ... but the principle is simple - forsaking privacy for "protection" would be abused
in more ways than the unschooled average commoner (including myself) could ever imagine ...
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I'd have to agree, you make some very good points.
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So, just submit because privacy doesn't work?
Difference is whether its accepted/known publicly
or not ... once it is, it gets taken to the next step.
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Yeah, a lot of people saying it's likely more of a crackdown on people exposing government corruption than any kind of actual 'terrorism'.
Very worrying :/
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Only 56 deaths related to terrorism in the UK in the last ten years apparently...
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They can also pile up the bodies with false flag attacks, it's why I think "Manchurian Candidate is real, REALLY?!" every time there's another school shooting and Obama brings out the dead kids on sticks as a campaigning device to disarm the population.
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Communications firms - such as your broadband or mobile phone providers - will be compelled to hold a year's worth of your communications data.
Frankly terrifying considering firms such as TalkTalk have been victims of major security compromises recently... Just asking for the databases to leak.
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Very true. It does seem to be so open to abuse and leave people very vulnerable to data theft. Silly thing is, I bet if there's a scandal to do with that, it wont even result in re-thinking the policy and instead will be passed off as an 'unpredictable attack' or something :/
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I can't say I'm overly bothered. I have nothing to hide. People who think the UK is a police state are very naive, it's still very open compared with the vast majority of countries. Open to abuse, yes probably but its a long way down on my list of issues to be worried about in the UK. There is only so much time I can spend worrying and the state of the NHS is currently much more important to me.
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What are your main concerns with the state of the NHS? You don't have to answer, I'm just curious as it's an issue that I also think is very important.
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Local GP Surgeries: e.g. Getting appointments at doctors - I have to ring at 08:00 and hope I get lucky and get through before they run out of appointments for the day - appointments only available for current day (even for non-urgent ones). Bear in mind I work an hour away from my GP and start work at 08:00 .. My wife's doctors now has a sit and wait policy. Sitting and waiting for several hours with a small child and then having to possibly go and pick another up from school before her turn comes around or even not getting one before the end of the day .. We never seem to get to see the same GP twice in a row ...
Lack of consistancy across hospitals: e.g. We swapped hospitals for the birth of our second son we were so disappionted with the service we got with our first son. There were some excellent nurses but some who quite frankly should never have joined the professional they were so cold and uncompassionate.
Administrative Incompetance: The lack of proper procedures is frightening. e.g. On two separate occasions the paper work for a different person was referered to for my wfie's treatment during pregnancy. It was picked up before anything serious occured but should never have got that far.
Poor Quality Of Doctors: e.g. Misdiagnosing. My wife came within hours of a life threatneing misdiagnosis. Fortunately we sought alternative medical opinion and the situation was resolved. When my wife refused to see the doctor involved in the misdiagnosis again that was an apparently an issue and so my wife ended up moving surgeries.
And don't get me started on Dentists. My wife has an ongoing issues from 2.5 years ago due to a dentist refusing to treat her whilst she was pregnant (Although other dentists are confused as to why that was so). On two separate occasions we've had to use regional 24 emergency dentists as our local dentist couldn't see us for several weeks, even for emergency appointments. And its rare we ever see the same dentist twice ..
Its not just a case of under funding, it's a lack of organisation and foresight going back at least 20 years.
Mind you compared with the recent experiences of immediate family with the NHS service in Wales we are getting off lightly ..
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This is very familiar to me. I remember the countless times you eventually got through at 8AM, only to be told nothing was available and to call next week. It is incredibly backward and counter-intuative at the moment. I completely agree it's a real problem and needs a big overhaul.
I had a health issue when I was a baby (bit complex to go into here), but was consistently told it was nothing and would go away, despite my mother repeatedly asking. When I was 5 we moved to a different city, went to the doctor's and they were horrified that I had been left with this issue, and immediately booked me for surgery. The whole postcode lottery can mean it's still very much based on if you're in a good area or not. Which should not be the case.
And unfortunately very much seems to be a case of genuinely wonderful people going into the profession, and not being able to give the care and service they desperately want to. As well as being amongst some completely unprofessional people who should not be working in any health environment, least of all one that can be the difference between life and death.
Very sorry to hear about the trouble you've had. You hear all too often about the poor practice and organisation of health services and often times ruining people's lives. Completely agree that it is a problem with the very roots of how the health service is run and dealt with and it needs a complete re-evaluation, unfortunately :(
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Ubiquitous internet surveillance is a significant step towards a totalitarian state. "If you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear" is a ridiculous argument debunked many times, and as for terrorism, any terrorist worth their salt will use encryption for communication, and no amount of surveillance will help you determine the contents of such communication.
I wonder if kids in the UK nowadays have Orwell's 1984 as mandatory reading. Something tells me that's not the case.
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I'd have to agree. Considering the government are trying to censor literature as well it really does seem to be a case of Orwell's warning coming true :/
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The thing is, once you go "black" you never go back.
applies to this also...
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Well, it's not like a person will sit there 24/7 seeing what you do on the internet. There is a good chance nobody, ever will even recognise you had an internet connection.
This act wouldn't worry me. Your ISP has more detailed data on your activity. Google remembers every search term, including, yes, the kinkiest porn you ever looked up out of "curiosity". Still nobody cares because what do they do with it? Sell it to some ad firms who put a few personalised ads to the pages you visit.
And if they really wanted to know what you do exactly, they already could do it. Tap mobile communication, tap landline, tap internet traffic, even bug the house if the court lets them.
I would be more enraged and worried when they centrally try to limit what you can do on the internet, like when they ordered all UK ISPs to block Pirate Bay. That is more like an actual way to interfere with the people's online activities and more concerning. If someone wants to secretly watch what you are doing, it's their problem. When they go and tell how to do itâĶ this is where actual totalitarianism starts.
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In a perfect world, internet surveillance would have no consequences for the ordinary citizen. But the world isn't perfect, and some people are corrupt. When such people are in the government, or when the whole government is corrupt, you get abuse of power.
If you can do something like this under the guise of preventing terrorism, it's only a small step to implement government-mandated website blacklists as well. In other words, when the government decides you shouldn't be on the web, off you go. All under the guise of protecting against terrorism or child abuse, of course. How long, then, until this power is abused as well? Or until its scope is expanded quietly to include lesser crimes until, for example, you're no longer even allowed to say the truth if it causes offense to someone? I'd rather not find out.
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So those government officials would be ok with installing surveillance cameras in bathroom stalls where they work, right? And it'll be open to viewing on the internet, so we can all watch them on the toilet!
I mean since they agree that no one needs privacy anymore, they'd totally back that, right? It's not like they're doing anything wrong. It's for their own safety!
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Haha the funny thing being that the only people's information that can't be accessed is their own!
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Well I was trying to point out the logical issue of claiming that all private matters are somehow clandestine and need to be open to surveillance. There are some things that people don't want to share, but it doesn't mean they're guilty of wrongdoing.
You know, like taking a dump?
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That is not related to the topic. The topic is internet privacy not privacy in general. The UK government did not mention they want to watch you do your business in the bathroom at all.
That's like saying you refuse security to check you bag in the airline because "you're not doing anything wrong."
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I don't think the government needs to know how often I order my groceries from Tesco or what gauge of strings I buy for my guitar from Amazon. And I don't even want them to know that I am writing here, now, on this very forum because well, that's not their bloody business!
"Terrorism" sounds like a very unoriginal excuse to spy on people. They are basically thretening us that if we don't let them spy on our private lives, then terrorists will kill us.
Sounds very much like they way to go towards George Orwell's 1984.
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Yeah, there comes a time where it becomes clear the ones inciting 'terror', are the ones who are constantly taking away liberties in the name of 'protecting' you.
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The uk goverment cant afford to employ enough people to monitor all the cctv cams in the uk so what makes you think they can employ enough people to monitor the internet activity of everyone in the uk. Its all a load of shite meant to make us feel that they are in control when it comes to terrorist activity when in reality they dont have a clue wtf is going on.
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Haha, unfortunately it makes me feel like somebody doesn't care about me ;)
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I know I'm going to get a lot of hate but I think it's actually quite a good thing to do. Just think of all the things that could of possibly been stopped. Then again, things like Tor will become a lot more popular I'm guessing. But I have nothing to hide and I'm happy for David to go through whatever he pleases. I mean obviously I wouldn't like a CCTV camera in my bathroom watching me shower, but if it will stop someone from getting hurt or killed or whatever then go ahead and perv me up. Looking at you Boris
I'm open to counter arguments
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Haha! I mean I agree with a lot of what my friend says in the video I added to my original post. But my worry is that it is just so open to abuse. I'd actually much prefer if whatever I did on the internet was free for anyone to see than just the government. The problem is that it's purely government ministers who will be able to see it and have final authority on whether its appropriate for them to or not, whilst simultaneously, their data remains private.
This information will be worth a lot and its fair enough to not be worried about someone seeing how much you watch cat videos, but if its employers looking at the medical information you've searched, or what's on your dating profile, it may start costing you more.
Another factor is that it's these ministers that define what 'terrorism' is. Sure, if someone is searching how to make a bomb, that might be worth monitoring, but I think it's more likely that whistleblowers and people who visit sites that expose government corruptions, or support alternatives to the leading party, may be labelled as terrorists. After all, no one else gets to see your internet activity, so no one can prove the government wrong if they make a false claim. It's your word against theirs. Which is so open to abuses of power and ill intent, that I think it's hard to find a justification for it.
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V for Vendetta! :P People are free. Surveillance is abusing people's rights!
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I remember part of an article I read a few years ago it said something like, if you give someone full access to your life it will be really easy for them to twist facts and make you out as some kind of crazy bad guy. A bad joke on some random forum, a private conversation with some dumb friend taken out of context, either would be turned against you if you are not align with those who monitor you.
It kinda makes sense to me, and it sounds quite dangerous but what do I know ...
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Yeah and bear in mind this is being proposed by the UK Home Secretary - a woman who tried to extradite a student for pirating films...
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wow that sucks! anything beyond public (got by public means by the way) shouldn't be done by government.
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I'm from the United States so not much I can say about the U.K., but your not the only country with this issue for example Windows 10 came out and when you have read the user agreement it basically says we will monitor your computer check for any illegal downloads and report you to the police. the stupid thing is I'm aloud to have ROM's of games as long as I own a hard copy of it. (its legal in the States) even you you turn off the stupid robot voice it still monitors your activity.
It is should be illegal because of our Bill of Rights ( includes 10 Amendments)
The Fourth Amendment (Amendment IV) to the United States Constitution is the part of the Bill of Rights that prohibits unreasonable searches and seizures and requires any warrant to be judicially sanctioned and supported by probable cause.
but their reasoning is because you accepted the terms your problem. ( so I took the HDD smashed it and bought a new and reinstalled windows 7)
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This isn't a fear for personal privacy. It's a fear for controlling the internet and limiting people's freedom to talk about ideas. It's about government ministers having exclusive access on people's activity, and final say on if they have committed 'terrorism' or not. Bear in mind, a lot of governments claim the most heinous acts of terrorism to be whistleblowers, who expose corruption and promote free information.
I'd like people to be able to discuss issues they have with the government online, but if that can be labelled 'terrorism', with no possible argument (since it is your word against the minister's), that sets a very scary precedent.
They're also claiming the police may be able to do so locally. Luckily in the UK, we don't have the police corruption issue on anywhere near the scale of in the US. But consider how that was largely exposed through sharing videos of police brutality. If police can simply label those individuals who share material exposing their corruption as 'terrorists', we have a problem.
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Who is labeling your opinion as an act of terrorism? Assuming the government has access to your privacy, they would at least need to have enough evidence to label you as a terrorist in the first place.
You and I have no idea of the exact limitation to this new law since it's still being worked on. As of now, it looks like they only care about your browser history for what I'm reading. They have no intentions to control anything related to this law or care about anyone's opinion which is why Goebbels said his comment.
Also, sources would be nice to confirm the Goebbels and police access statements.
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We're talking about the evidence being their word. No one else is allowed to look at the information, apart from a judge if they can provide evidence that the minister is acting inappropriately or is mentally unsound. I don't worry about myself, I'm hardly likely to be considered a threat to the government. But I worry for any criticism or exposing of government corruption being shut down. To me it seems a reaction to whistleblowers.
Yes I agree we can't make too many assumptions since the legislation is still being worked on. But I think it's worth discussion :)
I'll try and find some sources for you when I get a chance. There's a good interview where an MP backing the policy basically says 'Well, I promise I won't abuse it and you can trust me.' Which is quite amusing :P
Obviously I hope that my fears are wrong, but this government isn't exactly a stranger to corruption.
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The UK government is looking to introduce internet surveillance and me and my flatmate have been discussing how dangerous it is.
It seems incredibly open to abuse and they have even tried to justify it by quoting Goebbels: 'if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear.'
Anyone have any thoughts?
Small giveaway cause why not :)
And another :)
Video my flatmate made last night on the topic if anyone's more interested.
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