U.S. stock markets 2 months ago.
U.S. stock markets now.
If you forgot popcorn don't worry, I have plenty for everyone. At least until inflation runs rampant and I won't even be able to feed myself. Honestly, I can't see this leading anywhere good. I understand the idea is to strengthen U.S. industry and make people less reliant on foreign goods but this was a horrible way to go about it. One of these days.

3 months ago

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Do you tariff?

View Results
Yes, I tariff like a T-Rex.
No, we VATS here like civilized people(and vault dwellers). You American peasant.
I only raise levies on potatoes and potato accessories.
3 months ago
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What a wonderfull echo-chamber :)
Keep seething :)

I would like to EU to do the same but unfortunatelly almost all our production moved to china long time ago xD Imagine implementing tariffs on china and next day you don't have clothes, cars, computers and literally you try to build whole production sector from stone xD China sized our means of production without single bullet shot.

3 months ago
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How is this an echo chamber? Because there are people you don't agree with?

3 months ago
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How is this an echo chamber?

Whole first page filled with people with the same mindset, licking each other asses is echo-chamber. Whether they agree with me or not is irrelevant. If you had whole page filled with people praising new US tariff policies it would also be echo-chamber.

That beeing said I indeed disagree with you.

3 months ago
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I indeed disagree with you

About what, exactly? I didn't even state any opinions, simply asked you two questions. There was literally nothing to agree or disagree with. Do you just come onto the internet looking for fights? I can't imagine why else you would invent one lol

Whole first page filled with people with the same mindset

That's not what an echo chamber is. Your very comment being here proves it isn't an echo chamber, as differing opinions don't exist in echo chambers. You just have an unpopular opinion, and you think others should be forced to share your opinion so you don't feel bad about no one agreeing with you.

3 months ago
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About what, exactly? I didn't even state any opinions.

First you state opinion that I think it's echo-chamber because people don't agree with me. When I disagree with you - then you state that you haven't stated any opinion.
I know that you try hard to win argument, but it seems like this time you don't even need opinion to defend - you replied to my post because YOU are looking for a fight yourself. I can't imagine why else you would reply to my post (especially after telling me that you don't want to interact with me in another threa

You just have an unpopular opinion, and you think others should be forced to share your opinion so you don't feel bad about no one agreeing with you.

Psychological projection is a defense mechanism where people attribute their own feelings or traits to others. It can occur consciously or unconsciously.
Also the fact that you surrounded yourself with people who think alike doesn't mean that your opinion is popular.

3 months ago
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First you state opinion that I think it's echo-chamber because people don't agree with me.

Which I stated after you "disagreed" with me. The comment you replied to, I asked two questions and stated zero opinions. How could you have possibly disagreed with an opinion I didn't state yet? What'd you do? Time travel???

I can't imagine why else you would reply to my post

Couldn't the same thing be said about you replying to the thread in the first place? Or the fact that you're replying to me?

Also the fact that you surrounded yourself with people who think alike

Damn, I didn't know I was singlehandedly responsible for everyone that replied to this discussion.

especially after telling me that you don't want to interact with me in another threa

Tf are you on about??? I don't even know who you are lmao

doesn't mean that your opinion is popular

If the majority of people in this thread has the same opinion, that opinion is the popular one in this thread. That's literally what "popular" means. I also never once stated my opinion on tariffs so I'm not sure why you keep talking about my opinion. Or did you time travel to learn that one, too?

Psychological projection is

The lack of self-awareness is wild. You should probably take a break from being angry to do some self-reflection.

3 months ago
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Which I stated after you "disagreed" with me. The comment you replied to, I asked two questions and stated zero opinions. How could you have possibly disagreed with an opinion I didn't state yet? What'd you do? Time travel???

Bruh. Putting question mark doesn't change the fact that you stated your opinion that way. Whole conversation with you looks like your daily dose of mental gymnastic. I don't have time time for dealing with your delusins. I'm out. I'll even give you right to have last word :) I hope it will make you feel better.

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3 months ago
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I'd like to recommend some upcoming disco-elysium-like games

SUMMER ETERNAL
XXX NIGHTSHIFT
Hopetown
C4

Disco Elysium in Turkey - Reddit1 and Reddit2

3 months ago
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Cool

3 months ago
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VAT tax is a direct import tariff, prove me wrong

3 months ago
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Do people in Europe have to pay sales tax at time of purchase for things overseas, or does VAT take care of that? I've also heard there are 'import duty' fees of some sort?

3 months ago
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In France you pay VAT on everything, including produced locally. The prices in the stores are all VAT included (usually VAT is 20%).
If you purchase overseas, you pay customs. Most of the time customs clearances are included in the price (that means then that as a customer you pay them, but already included in the price), but sometimes not (and then you've to pay them to get your package).

I don't consider VAT as an import tariff because all the french products are subject to the same VAT.
And if i purchase overseas, there will be VAT + customs, one does not exclude the other. The customs clearances can be pretty expensive from outside of European Union (for example from Great Britain). The customs duties are european, not french. There is no customs clearances inside EU. Customs duties have already discouraged me from buying abroad, but not VAT since i can't avoid VAT anyway, even when buying locally.

I don't understand this focus on VAT, i think there is a misunderstanding somewhere.

3 months ago*
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They don't have VAT in US. So adding VAT to purchase from US is like 21% tariff.
Some states have sales tax though (but highest I heard of is 7%).

3 months ago
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While the USA has no federal VAT, only five states don't have any sales tax.
And as tariffs are by definition only charged upon imported goods, VAT is by its very nature no tariff. There is no advantage for domestic producers.

Does "the echo chamber" have to teach you guys everything that should be basic knowledge?

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3 months ago
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Ok - so max sales tax is not 7% but 12% in some states...
So you want to tell me that replacing it with 21% tax + tariff on top of that (because in the UE we put customs on top of that) doesn't make a change for companies from US that want to sell their product here? Also does your echo chamber forgot that we actually put imort fees on products from US? And we did it long before Trump? He is just first that said that's not ok.

3 months ago
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No idea what further explanations you require. VAT applies to everyone, the complete way through the production of a product till the very end. If you want to reveal to us how that is supposed to impact US companies worse or any different than domestic companies, please do so.

And - oh boy- where did you get the idea that only we put tariffs on imports? Pretty much every decent trading nation has tariffs, including the USA. There is nothing wrong with having tariffs per se.
The WTO's job was to assure that everyone played fair, within an established ruleset. On top of trying to eliminate tariffs, subventions, restrictions etc.
Guess who made it impossible for the WTO to resolve trade conflicts? Oh no, it was Trump!.

But hey, why would I expect such knowledge from you. After all you seriously believe that Trump was the first ever to mind trade conflicts.

3 months ago*
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where did you get the idea that only we put tariffs on imports?

Where did you get the idea that I get that idea?

The WTO's job was to assure that everyone played fair, within an established ruleset.

And now US wan't to have it their way. Play dirty and strong hand everybody into submision.

VAT applies to everyone

Everyone in UE. And everyone selling to UE. For whatever reason I think that you like being taxed with VAT.. Some people don't like that.

3 months ago
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So you actually can't explain why VAT should be worse for importers than for domestic producers, which would be necessary to make VAT a tariff, as you claimed.
And all you had left was to question if I might like paying VAT?

lol. Your trolling remains amateurish.

3 months ago
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...
We have tariffs though? So why would I make VAT a tariff? I'm just pointing out that when you add VAT and tariff and hell know what other taxes (environmental and so on) suddenly importing goods from US is financially unfavorable.

I wonder why US might have problem with that.

3 months ago
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We have tariffs though? So why would I make VAT a tariff?

No idea, ask that yourself. See ...

So adding VAT to purchase from US is like 21% tariff.

But you tend to conveniently "forget" what you wrote regularly.

when you add VAT and tariff and hell know what other taxes (environmental and so on) suddenly importing goods from US is financially unfavorable.

All but the tariffs apply to goods not imported from the US, too. So they do not have the slightest impact on making imported wares more or less competitive. But you have been told that often enough, so I guess you are just hopeless.

Anyways, I'm done with you.

3 months ago
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No idea, ask that yourself. See ...
But you tend to conveniently "forget" what you wrote

At that point I'm not sure if it's a language barrier or you are doing it on purpose. If you are referring to :

VAT tax is a direct import tariff, prove me wrong

That was another user.

But anyway - I'm glad that you are "done with" me. Time to do something more constructive than talking with somebody who's trying to twist every word i say:)

3 months ago
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Dude, with all due respect, you clearly don't know what you are talking about.

Also magically writing "echo chamber" again and again won't help. Opinions bubbles quite common for human beings.

You don't know about import taxes, you don't know about VAT, which is pretty basic knowledge, yet you pretend to know how complicated stuff works

3 months ago
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Explain it to me then :) Please tell me, why people from US should see EU as fair partner in trade. Because now they don't feel that way. And they voted for a guy who promised to change that. Do YOU even understand this basic knowledge? Or you just throw cheap attacks to win argument.

3 months ago
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They also believe in UFO and in Pizzagate, I don't care about stupid people.

They've been told that exporter will pay the tariff, just like Mexico would pay for "the wall" and they fell for it, again. Saying that the exporter will pay the tariff is not wrong, is just stupid.

You import stuff because it's cheaper or because you can't do it yourself, I really doubt children in Vietnam are scamming US with their Nike balloons, but Vietnam was hit with a 46% tariff, guess Americans will learn to sew balloons for 1$ per hour

3 months ago
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As a side note, Nintendo moved much of the production of the Switch 2 to Vietnam and Cambodia hoping to avoid the Chinese tariffs, lol. And then pulled pre-orders once it became apparent that this strategy did not exactly work out.

3 months ago
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I bought once LP from country outside of EU. Shop automatically added vat tax to my purchase. But then when it arrived, delivery man instead of giving me product, gave me notice to go to post office and there I had to pay import fee on top of that to get my package xD

And yes - it's not just my post office that is retarded. I have to pay 2 taxes if I buy outside from EU.

3 months ago*
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It is a very sneaky and hidden form of tariff, imposed to improve the economy of its own ppl (europeans) compared to the rest of the world, which seems fair but is exactly the same as Mr. Trump is doing.

3 months ago
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You have to pay VAT too if you're selling something you make from scratch, like bread, made from ingredients produced and sourced inside the country. It's an extra cost between seller and purchaser, but not only on imported goods, so it is not equal to a tariff.

3 months ago
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Yup. It's much worse than tariff.
And I speak as somebody who pays vat every day for everything.
Imagine paying 20% tax from your income, and then 23% for each thing you buy.

And they told us on history lessons that peasants in middle ages had it bad when they had to pay 10% income tax xD

Edit: it's actually 23% not 21% xD

3 months ago*
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27% VAT here, plus the government put another 4% on basically all stores as a different form of tax, so basically (at least) 31% of whatever I buy is taxes. Sooner or later the country will collapse because of this. (Good old hungary, they steal every available money, and plan to get money from people buying stuff, inflation helps this income to get bigger. But people are running out of money to spend, so the government income also drops, while people's life quality takes a nose dive)

3 months ago
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Oh - I almost forgot about taxes for "luxury goods"... like gasoline xD When I go to gass station - 80% of price are various taxes. How is country supposed to develop if they made transport so f*cking expensive?

We don't need US or any other country to cripple or economy. We are doing it to ourselfes.

3 months ago
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Tariffs is bad

3 months ago
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The world is doomed and we doomed it ourselves, USA is a total disaster but even here in Europe the situation is bleak...

3 months ago
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Don't let the tariff fuckery work to take up too much of your attention by the way. It's serving right now as a significant distraction.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/photojournalist-witnesses-venezuelan-migrants-arrival-in-el-salvador-60-minutes/

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14600433/cop-venezuelan-makeup-artist-el-salvador-prison-charles-cross-jr.html

LEGAL migrant btw. Many such cases. Sent off without any legal hearings, to be imprisoned in a "Terrorism Confinement Centre" not in his home country—or a country he has ANYTHING to do with—because he'd "posted about two tattoos he had gotten" that had "crowns on them". That served as clear evidence of "gang affiliations"...

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3 months ago*
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Not something new sadly. Not limited to the U.S. either.

3 months ago
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The US deporting hundreds of immigrants, including legal migrants(!!), to a maximum security "mega-prison" in El Salvador is ABSOLUTELY something new. I'm not sure what you're trying to say - or exactly what the relevance of that second part is, either.

3 months ago
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The El Salvador part is new. The exporting of people to prisons outside the U.S., not so much. Guantanamo, for example.

The overt callousness is new though as well.

I guess people calling themselves conservative are gonna have to ditch all those "Don't tread on me" shirts now that they are fully supportive of people being tread on.

3 months ago
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I keep thinking people will open their eyes and actually make a stand but I'm honestly thinking people will just let the government do anything these days. As long as they buy some merchandise that "supports" the cause or sign a few petitions that seems to work for them.

3 months ago
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As Taco said Guantanamo has been around for decades. But deporting or "relocating" people, even fully legal citizens, has been going on since the founding of the United States. Before the United States existed it was going on as long as humans have been around. Possibly you could even look at animal behavior and make comparisons as well. It's not so much "callous" as we just can't do anything about it other than lobby and pressure courts. The courts are the only entities that can do anything about it but believe me, thousands of people are protesting and lobbying. Whether it will have any impact I couldn't say. But sadly it is very easy to throw around the "national security" thing these days. They make "typical" americans disappear as well. They are steadily building and expanding prisons to house people on mostly bogus charges. That's honestly nothing new either. And if you make them mad enough they will damn sure make you do 100% of the time they give you.

3 months ago
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