The main annoying limitation are the triggers, which share the same axis under DInput. Thus, if you use them as buttons in an old game, you wouldn't be able to use them both at the same time.
There's the XBCD driver you can use to play old DInput games properly, but you lose proper XInput with this driver (although you could also use X360ce on top of it).
Also... there's the problem of the crappy d-pad. So +1 for the F710 indeed.
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Okay, please disregard my knowledge, but what is xinput and directinput? Is it just wired or wireless?
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Ah okay, so the Logitech F710 has an easier time with games rather than the Xbox 360 Controller?
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From a technical standpoint, both are the same, they just handle different.
You can get F510, F710 or F310, all 3 support XInput.
710 is wireless with rumble, 510 has only rumble and is wired and 310 is wired without rumble.
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Main advantage of this is that many games natively support xbox controller.
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Yes and they're extremely cheap. Even more so for the wired controllers. Think I got two of those gutted fake ones for 5 bucks.
I think every gamer should have a xbox controller since some genres are just better with controllers. Same way FPS is abhorrent played by controllers.
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I went the cheap-o route and got the Logitech F310. It works, but the Xbox controller is superior in comfort, build and smoothness of joystick motion and shoulder buttons. I regret my purchase.
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It is possible to connect Wii controllers to PC to play Wii games with Dolphin Emulator :)
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I got FIFA 13 the other day so I needed a second pad, I have a wired Xbox 360 controller already but I hate wires so bought 2 wireless Xbox 360 controllers on Amazon this morning. The first one was a regular one with wireless receiver & the second one was a silver one with the adjustable dpad & plug & charge kit. both of them are Microsoft ones. I got xpadder so I can play any older games that don't support xbox pads using it to map keyboard buttons to the controller for games like GTA:SA or Prince of Persia.
Although I haven't used one myself I've heard the Razer Onza is a great pad but a little pricey.
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Your first concern should really be to find one that is comfortable, or at least looks comfortable. I am for an example quite fond of the (sadly discontinued) Logitech cordless rumblepad 2. It has a nice weight to it (not too heavy, and not too light either), and I found the D-pad & buttons to be really comfortable, but the sticks were not amazing.
The Logitech F710 looks like the successor to it, but I can't comment on it, as I have no first hand experience with it.
You always have the option of just buying an X-box 360 controller. It works well with modern games, but not quite as well with older ones. It is easy to find, and the sticks are both quite good, but if you plan to play a lot of 2D platformers and games like that, the poor D-pad will get in the way of your enjoyment.
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Yes, I have seen many bad remarks on the D-Pad of the Xbox controller. 2D platformers are definitely a part of the library of games that I will be playing with, others will be modern FPSs like L4D2 or JC2.
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I'm a die hard mouse + keyboard guy, but if you have to go for a controler then I'd say just go with an xbox controler.
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Yeah I love using the Keyboard + Mouse. But it would seem more relaxing and casual (which is my point for this post) to just sit back on a couch or bed and just use a controller instead of sitting up with the computer on a desk.
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While I personally prefer the Razer Onza to the standard 360 controller, it's hard to recommend it. The design is better but the build quality (much like all Razer products) is horrible. Pretty much everyone I know who has an Onza has had to have it swapped out at least once. Getting one that works for more than a week is like winning the lottery.
So... unless you have some serious patience and know of a store where you can swap out stuff quickly. I'd recommend a 360 controller, wireless or wired. The best choice imo would be the "Xbox 360 Wireless Controller for Windows" kit, which comes with a USB reciever.
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Please note: You don't need an XBOX Controller for playing games if you don't want one
The F-Series from Logitech supports this protocoll and can also be switched to DInput at the bottom for older games.
They look like PS3 Controllers. You can play any game with that just like with the xbox one from a technical standpoint.
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The F-Series have really caught my attention for it's PS3-Xbox hybrid controller. It looks like the perfect controller to use.
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I got the F10 and like it a lot.
The DPAD is very precise and you can swap DPad with Left Analog Stick in any game if you like by pressing a button. I did that in SMB for example.
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Yeah SMB is one of the games that looks enjoyable with the gamepad.
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Then you do want the Logitech controller, and not an Xbox one. While SMB is playable on an Xbox 360 controller, it is far from ideal.
Also, the battery life in my Rumble Pad 2 is just out of this world, I've never had a game pad where the batteries last this long, so I would guess that Logitech's later models of this type are good as well.
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I have two F710 now since a few months and got them for that very reason: I hate the look and feel of the xbox controller and just love the PS ones, yet I didn't want to bother with extra madness for xinput simulation.
and... I'm totally happy with them :) something you may see as downside for the wireless one is that it runs on plain old batteries instead of some internal rechargable battery or whatever, but I personally see that as big plus as those are super easy to swap and you can still use rechargables if you want to.
and for battery life: those last a lot longer than I thought :x didn't have to exchange them yet and already played many hours of skyrim, limbo, etc. with them :D
to sum it up: I was very undecided first and my main goals were "native xinput support to keep the hassle down" and "is a PS-style controller as I know I like those" and the logitech one made me perfectly happy :)
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Yeah I've always loved the PS1&2 controllers, but moved on the Xbox 360 after that. Should I go for the wireless or the wired? I have heard that the wireless sometimes has laggy connection especially if you are far away from the USB.
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I'd say go wireless if you have a big screen and want to play on bed/carpet/couch/whatever
the connection can get laggy, but it's not really a matter of being far away (I already controlled my skyrim from my bath room xD which is ~10m I think), but more of placing the receive-thingy properly.
you can either plug it in directly or use a usb extension cable (there comes one with the gamepad) to place it properly. while I had quite some lag at times while I just had it on my PC it works like a charm since I positioned it a bit better (after a few minutes playing around you'll find the right spot - I think it just didn't like to be so close to that massive steel box xD).
then again if you don't want to do that kinda stuff but only want to use it on the desktop while sitting in front of it, there's no real reason to get the wireless one I guess.
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Yeah, later on I do plan on playing at least 5ft away from a monitor, so I guess wireless seems like the best choice despite, what seems to be, minor connectivity problems.
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I use the good old XBOX 360 controller and I'm happy with it.
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I use the logitech F310, and it works pretty well. I think your computer sees it as a xbox controller, so I don't really think it matters which one you use. Of course, if you want wireless or rumble, you go for a higher up model, but this controller does everything I need it to
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I don't get that whole TV living room gaming thing. It's why consoles have become so important in the gaming market compared to PCs and it's why people are fooling themselves into believing that shooters can be played great with a gamepad. Isn't that the craziest notion ever? And all because people are couch potatoes with a living room centered around watching crappy talkshows and reality-TV.
I for one, have not had a television set in 10 years and my PC is the most important part of my living room (biggest case I could find). And yes, I do watch movies but I do that through my all-in-one device running Windows.
Now more to the point: I have a Logitech Rumblepad 2 (for platformers and fighting games), which is ok but not perfect. People say that the XBOX controller is more ergonomic but I've never tried one, since the shape is so butt ugly that it would completely ruin my living room feel. I do not consider that an exaggeration. I seriously couldn't stand having something so ugly around.
If you are ok with its looks, go for something shaped like an XBOX controller. It also means you will never get in trouble playing XNA games, cause they rely on XInput and rarely support Direct Input (A.R.E.S. and Capsized come to mind. They can't be played with non-XInput-Pads). Also a lot of button tutorials in games are based on the XBOX controller which is very confusing on other pads (game tells me to press A/B/X/Y when my buttons read 1/2/3/4).
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"How do you know when someone doesn't own a TV?"
....
"They tell you about it."
Sorry, but being on a comfy couch with a big TV and a nice sound system playing games in any sort of sitting position you want is just plain fun.
Also, when I play games at the PC, I get too distracted alt+tabbing back to other applications, checking chats, steamgifts, etc.
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Your first point rings true. It's like atheists talking about god more than believers, I guess.
But what exactly does it mean? Does it make me a cultural vegetarian of sorts?
I play PC games sitting on my couch in front of a 150" HD projection on my wall. Sound comes through 7.1 speakers placed around the couch. I think I know what comfort you mean and I do get to enjoy it without a TV set and without a gaming console. My mouse rests on a mouse pad next to me on the couch, keyboard's on my lap.
The part about alt+tab - ok, if you need to not be distracted. I don't have to tell you how to turn stuff off. Also this is a Steam based community so I take it you're not exactly against PC gaming in general.
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So you dislike that we have a culture of couch potatoes with living rooms centered around the tv, but you sit on a couch watching a 150" projection? How is that really any different?
Not trying to be rude, you just come off as a bit elitist.
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I just figured I probably sound elitist right before you posted it. No offense taken.
The difference is I do all of that minus TV shows, I guess. And also I'm just not a big fan of being forced to play bad console ports on my platform of choice because of how the market has changed in the last decade. Which in turn, as I see it, is because people adore television and consider their PCs workstations that shouldn't stand in the living room - a view that I do not share.
I tend to be unduly emotional about these things. I should just shut up right here instead of bloating the off-topic part of this thread even more. Thanks for indulging me.
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Well the point of the "TV living room gaming" is to have fun playing your games while also having the comfort of your living room, unlike sitting in a computer chair staring at a computer screen 1-2 ft in front of you. I do like that Valve is making the next step for making PC gaming a living room experience. You already have A PC with 50+ games in your Steam Library, why must you buy a Xbox 360 or a PS3 just to enjoy these same games?
Anyways, yeah I've learned over the years of playing on Xbox that the controller is UGLY, not to offend any Xbox-Controller lovers out there. I like these hybrids of PS3-Xbox controllers though.
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Before I started PC gaming a year ago (don't judge me :P) I had an Xbox 360 shared with my family. We would always worry about the discs getting scratched and having to buy a new copy just for a silly scratch. Now with the current technology Steam has to offer (Downloading games off internet), PC gamers don't have to worry about their PC discs ruining, too. However, the Console gamers still fight this issue, but I see online downloading a thing in the near future for console gamers. So right now, I feel that PC gaming is a little unnoticed by many gamers (mainly console) and that the future generations of PC gaming is getting ahead of the game.
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I'm not judging you for that. Maybe it's a good thing. I am probably biased by having played computer games since 1986. It's not always easy to embrace new concepts, as you can see from this here rant.
Yeah, relying on vulnerable solid media sucks. I sure love my Steam. And yes, the trend is going towards cloud based gaming in general. From what I hear the next XBOX is going to have decent contemporary hardware only as a transitional solution. They plan on keeping the system from aging later on by moving all the rendering to their own servers. So the console would basically only act as a dongle and an interface to a web based gaming experience. Of course the worldwide bandwidth bottleneck needs a big boost before this can become a reality for the majority of gaming, but you can already observe this trend in services such as Onlive.
This I find exciting I must say. I'm hoping that it'll give gaming in general a much needed tech boost. It's really quite a shame how the PS3 and XBOX 360, having become the defining platforms for state-of-the-art games, have slowed down progress in game visuals overall. In my opinion Crysis 1 is still pretty much top-notch in its visuals on the PC and it's been five years since its release. Such stagnancy was inconceivable in the early 2000s and before.
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Yes, I've heard that the consoles these days still are not closely as good as PC have it these days. As our system specs keep on upgrading, those consoles(which usually have a lifespan of 5 years before a newer console) still keep the same graphics card for years. Even with an HDMI cable connected to your 40" TV and Xbox 360, the graphics are still stuck at (I think) a 720p? PC gaming is definitely is taking a big step in front of console gaming, but most console gamers just don't realize it or don't want to accept it.
By the way, I'm loving this conversation :)
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In theory yes, but in practice games are now being made for the consoles and then ported to the PC with as little development cost as possible. Therefore the race for better hardware isn't as intense as it used to be on PC.
I've been using my slightly overclocked Radeon HD 4890 for about 3.5 years, now and it still runs many new games maxed out at 1920x1200 (or 1920x1080 on my projector). Borderlands 2 is one of the few games that won't let me do this anymore, which is probably due to the extensive use of PhysX particle effects. Have to emulate that on an ATI card, which takes a lot of processing power.
The life cycle of video cards used to be much shorter, say two years. I'll probably get to four years of total use, now, before really having to replace my 4890. I really think that's the consoles.
I had business-related lunch with a relatively high ranking employee from Microsoft Germany in June. When he talked about the PC market moving away from desktops/notebooks to tablets, I mentioned a possible boost in PC sales with the arrival of the next PS and XBOX for the reasons named above - new console hardware leading to more demanding cross-platform games leading to more demand for strong PC hardware.
He didn't seem convinced by my logic, though. I think they kind of consider core gaming on the PC to just be dead.
Edit: Borderlands 2 doesn't run well on this card even if I switch particles to low. Have to play it at a lower resolution sadly.
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And thats why M$ will lose more and more in the pc market, even with it's operating system. Google is already worth more than M$. When Steam for Linux hits and more and more games move over, there will be a significant shift. Thats my theory only though.
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i disagree with you for several reasons.
First in a living room i can be further away from the screen which means i can have bigger screens. In short, thanks to full HD tech i can have a 40 inch TV where graphics run almost as good as a monitor.
Second, many genres are incredebly clunky on the keyboard and mouse. RPGs for example are much more enjoyable with controllers (looking at last remant and dungeon siege 3).
Third, controllers allow me to play local CO-OP. co-op through the internet is good but it's not the same thing.
Fourth, allows me to have the best of both worlds. i'm confy on my couch with a "big" TV and can use either the keyboard/mouse or the controller.
i have no idea why you consider playing shooters with gamepads bad. you should be respectfull to teh fact that not all people play shooters at a competitive level.
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I said I have my PC in my living room, right? I am pro living room gaming. So I don't get the first argument. I am pretty far away from my projection, when I play. And the picture isn't exactly small.
RPGs are a very good example of superior mouse+keyboard controls imo, although the ones you are talking about are probably indeed better played with controllers. And that's precisely because they were made for the consoles and then ported, which in turn is because TV+console gaming has taken over sectors that used to be PC only.
And what I find weird is that the majority chose to overcome the inherently worse control scheme for shooters, sims and RPGs (good RPGs imo are complex, which often means a host of menus that are obviously better controlled with a mouse) than keep playing on PC with a mouse and keyboard.
However, this is just a historical observation. If you like playing shooters with a gamepad, then so be it. You can do so on a PC, as well. All of the freedom the PC gives you and the consoles don't is just one more reason to keep it as the goto device for all things multimedia.
Number 3 is a new point but it doesn't contradict what I've said. I'm on your side in this. I like that you can choose which control scheme you prefer on a PC. This is your point number 4, which I completely agree with. Never said anything against it.
I have never played shooters at a competitive level. The one time I tried to play a Quake 3 tournament (on a LAN event in 2004 or so) it was a very bad experience because people were taking it waaay too seriously. I mostly play single player or co-op shooters with people I know in real life.
The way I feel about it is that mouselook controls are just so much quicker and more precise than stick based setups that it's a whole different level of immersion. Sure, shooters CAN be played with gamepads when the games are adjusted to it in difficulty. Or maybe some people get so good at it that the adjustment isn't even necessary for recreational gaming. But it's like learning to do macrame with gloves on. It's inherently less precise. Mouse + keyboard used to be the norm when playing shooters (damn, that step up from Doom 2 to Quake felt so awesome). And then people started learning to control them with a second-best approach just so they could play shooters on consoles so they could play on the couch.
This is what I find so weird: Why overcome something like this kind of transition from optimal to suboptimal just so you can play on your TV? To me it seems like a more reasonable approach to move the PC to the couch and keep the controls the way you like them.
I don't know, maybe people are afraid of drivers and seeing the contents of folders. Or maybe PCs are just too expensive for kids.
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I have started out with console gaming my whole life, being part of a younger group of gamers. It all started out with the Sega Dreamcast to PS1, PS2, Xbox, and then the Xbox 360. My first FPS was Halo Combat evolved for the Xbox and it seemed pretty normal to play with a controller to me.
As I advanced through the Halo series, which were the only FPSs I played at the time, I found out about COD (a little late actually). I played COD: Modern Warfare 2 on the Xbox 360. It was a fun experience to me, being different from Halo and such. But after playing Halo: Reach, COD: Black Ops, and Battlefield 3, I said "What the heck, let's try the PC."
After playing TF2 and CS:S for a few days, I felt huge freedom in movement. The keyboard + mouse was the perfect combo. Switching weapons took a split second, as did turning around quickly, too. Now that I have stopped console gaming, I was stuck with the keyboard + mouse. But now at this point, where Valve had introduced to us, "Big Picture" mode, I feel the need of going back to (essentially) being a couch potato.
I want to feel that feeling again where I have a controller in my two hands, in comfort on my couch, while just enjoying the game in front of me. I DO NOT plan on playing FPSs with my mind set to hardcore, but I want to play casually. Indie games will just burn out time and it will just be fun to relax and enjoy the game in front of you.
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first off I misunderstood you first post, i thought you meant that the PC shouldn't be in the living room with controllers, but instead in a proper table.i apolegize for my mistake.
When i said RPG i was thinking mroe of the JRPG style, not the old "complex" WRPG. for those mouse is much better without a doubt! i can't imagine playing x-com wihout a mouse.
The transtion you talk about suposes that gamers started with a PC. Gamers that started with a controller might not use the KB/M settings and go straight for their controller.
i believe the reason people play mroe with consoles and conrtoller than PC is because the PC is most of the times a hassle. for example, let's imagine that i buy railroad tycoon 3 from steam and i have as OS windows 7 64 bits. the game wouldn't work without using a few things. in this case you have to get a crack then go to the options screen adn deactivate a tick box. for must of us, PC core gamers, is something easy to do but for someone who as only experienced consoles it would be hard (even with google's help).This is way i agree with you, some gamers do run away from the PC but for me that's fine because what's important it's not the platform where they play or what controlelr they choose but the fact that they choose to experience gaming.
P.S. you have aroom big enough to have a projector? holy crap!
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I wasn't very clear in my first post, I guess. Pretty emotional about it.
I understand that a lot of people start playing with gamepads in hand, since a lot of people start gaming on consoles. What I meant was the shooters having been out first on PCs, so they used to be controlled with M/KB first (after getting there from KB only) and only later on, because the consoles could suddenly handle 3D graphics, they would be controlled with gamepads also.
It's certainly true that troubleshooting Windows games is much harder, because the software and hardware aren't standardized to the same degree as on consoles (and OSX). The option to choose from a huge range of hardware on PCs is one of the major reasons I choose to play on PCs, though. I like the freedom and I'm ok with handling the occasional problem. I understand that other people find it more of a hassle and less advantegous. That's what I meant by people being "afraid of drivers".
And about your P.S.: Technically I probably don't, as I'm sitting closer to the projection than the usual recommendation tells me to, relative to the size of the projection. But I like it that way. And as far as the distance between the projector and the projection is concerned... well I specifically chose a projector that magnifies the picture a lot over a relatively short distance. Also I have unusually high ceilings and the projector is mounted up there. This way my head never gets in the way.
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I paid 20€ when it was on sale, but that's about as cheap as it ever gets.
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That's a pretty good idea. I have +4 PS2 controllers (I have 3 younger brothers) that haven't been used in a long time.
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xbox wireless controller is for me the best choice.
pros:
-many games support this controller and thanks to the comunity most games can be run by this controller.
-changeable bateries. it uses 2AA basteries which are easely changed.
-size and layout of the controller. it's extremely confortable for long sessions of gamming.
-you only need 1 wirelees "pad" for 4 controllers.
-the controller can be used between PC and XBOX 360.
cons:
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Yeah I saw that the only downside to the Logitech F-Series is the lack of support to Xbox 360. But I feel that in the future years, I won't be playing on the Xbox for prolonged periods of time anymore, just those special occasions.
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i bought my xbox 360 wireless for 35 euro at the time. i don't know how much logitech cost but i would really put a high note on the 360 controller. it works very well. if the diference in price is not much choose the xbox 360 controller. i have one of which has 4 years and still works.still i have no idea of your gaming needs so i hope my insight will help you make a decision.
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got my F710s (wireless logitech ones) for ~35€ each, too, so I guess there's not much of a price difference
and I think whether to go for the logitech or xbox one is mostly a matter of which style you like - PS or Xbox ;)
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With Steam Big Picture out, I was really looking into the idea of getting a gaming controller for my computer. I mean, I'm not going to use it for hardcore gaming, but it would definitely be nice to sit back and relax and just have fun playing some casual games. I have seen the regular Microsoft Wired Controller, the Razer Onza & the Logitech F710. Are there any really good choices for gaming controllers regarding the PC world? I would (like anybody else) keep price to a minimum.
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