So AshenOne started a topic with a good intention, that actually got people talking, but of-course by "nature", this was going nowhere for the simple fact most people don't even have the basis of culture, knowledge, science and experience to even understand the F they're talking about.

First a memo on what different terms mean

  1. Biological Sexes define the starting chromosomic make-up, hormonale orientation and reproductive organs you come with, aka whether you are biologically a male or female which has not much to do with being a "man" or a "woman", with a few medical exceptions.

  2. Genders has almost nothing to do with sexes, yet is biological, specifically neuronal and psychological. It defines who you are or feel (because as complex humans goes, it sometimes takes time or struggle to find yourself) as an individual sexual being. You can be a heterosexual male who feels like a "woman" who likes females who are dominant or bisexual. Yeah that get's complicated, yet it's the cold truth: if it exists, then it is. The problem is that this concept is so complex because it actually defines people as millions of possible unique sexual individuality (a term I prefer for gender), that SJW have complete fucked with, while having no idea the fuck they talk about.

  3. Sexual Orientation: defines your attraction, not only to whom but also to what or how you're attracted, so not just to people but also situations, roles, types of personalities, fetishes, cuddling etc...here again it's very complicated because like hormones or genders, it can fluctuate over time. You could be a dumb hetero-male who just like a good ball-emptying one day, and realise you want to dress as a furrie to enjoy sex the next.

So for short, we are defined amongst other things by S.G.O. factors, but this can get as complex as there are many people, tendencies and possibilities. Pokemon SGO: gotta catch'em all!


Now the problem is we're not remotely living in a future society based around precisely what makes human unlike animals, which is that being your own self as a unique individual is more important, therefor there's a generalised equality because only what you achieve and how you emancipate yourself as an individual person matters, in fact feminisms, lgbtqis and other SJWs have ruined any chance for us to get there in the coming decade.

However we live in a VERY imperfect and retarded society, that is not much more advanced that 1000 y.o. because, and this is the actual theme of the topic: we are not really prisoners of nature anymore (not exactly), but we are prisoner of the way our overall society defines itself and things in general, which we call human conditions. And some of these conditions cater to an extremely popular theme, which is the feminine (NOT female) condition, and the one nobody gives a shit about, the masculine condition.

The Masculine Condition

  1. Downward Emasculation - When you're a kid and then a teen (sometimes older) you grow-up on either one of the two faces of emasculation: you are what I consider to be morally/psychologically abused by older women into getting a completely biased, involuntarily sexist, fetishisation of women as being special little flower you have to be arbitrarily -nicer, respectful and attentional with. The classic result is growing-up being lonely and miserable, because of course no women want to have to do with nice guys, until you become self-conscious enough to ask yourself why (though some men never get out of that state, some, by intimidation, depression and general fragility, revert back to it, older male feminists for exemple), and in fact ask yourself a deeper question: but who or how should I be? That's where you evolve towards a second, more subtle and independent (as in it's your responsibility) state, if you didn't already grew-up in that culture because of older men:

  2. Upward Emasculation -So this is going to seem counter-intuitive, especially for backwards/alt-right reactionaries, but it isn't. The whole precept of "masculinity" is based on a general idea that, whether we grow-up to be nice guys or coward assholes first, being a man means that you have to A. "succeed" in a broad general sense, on the surface to be "someone" or to get money, this or that material things, but deeper really to get women, and B. that as a man, you don't have a right to complain, be sensitive or seen as "weak", or even be a victim (again we're talking about men with a minimum of self-consciousness, not hypocrites wimp although the following will apply to them as well), and for the very same deeper reason that you "have" to succeed: not to ruin your chance of getting women, or rather be emasculated.

    • But the truth, the more subtle one, is that this masculine condition (like the feminine condition), is exactly another kind of emasculation which makes men miserable and pulls them away from actually being "accomplished" the way you can truly be: by becoming who you really are, the best yourself, which means you have to emancipate yourself from normative rules which makes you an influenceable nobody, which means you have to first understand and find who you truly are. The masculine condition like any other arbitrary conditioning is what drives men to pursue stupid, superficial, material goals whatever they might be, which they actually mostly don't succeed unless by becoming miserable losers, to engage in violent, social, moral or physical competition on a mediocre scale, and finally constantly pretend and adopt attitude that are no their true self to cater to women criterias and desire, further echoed by other men who are prisoner of that condition. That's why the only way to become a man is
  3. Male Emancipation - Euphras said "one is not born a man, one becomes one" which has been the defining punchline of the meaning of becoming an emancipated individual human, way beyond the original question asked to him which was "how does one turns into a successful/accomplished man" (De Beauvoir later made it universal by responding to the question of feminine condition by concluding in Second Sex "one is not born a woman, one becomes one", which today's feminists completely desecrated and pissed on, going backwards instead). Being a man means not being emasculated against your own drives, expressions and ambitions as a man, but it also means not being weak-minded, diverted and emprisoned by the other form of emasculation which is "virilism" or as some call it "toxic masculinity". But there's only one way to do that because as I describe above, if men have one single complete weakness which drives their huge cowardliness today, it's the dependance from women's approval and desire.

    • Why did the feminist movement become so successful? Because men have a big mouth to talk about anything, from games, to politics or science and philosophy, but if there's one thing that makes them drop their balls and shit their spine, it's women. No (sane) man would want to be ridiculed or intimidate by saying something against feminists or women in general, and more importantly none would want to see their chance of getting with a women threatened by a controversial position against feminism? Well, that's exactly what emasculation means in it's widest most common form, and emprisons men in those superficial "masculinity" criterias or attitudes which are the opposite of being a true, emancipated, human individual. As you can see this requires something very difficult and counter-intuitive: the first step to becoming a true independent and emancipated man, is to not care or even consider women's judgement, and more than judgements (since this can easily be diverted from "I don't care" to "I pretend not to care, but I'm behaving consciously/unconsciously exactly the way I know it'll attract them"), from women's approval/desire. Which is pretty fucking hard of course, whether you are lonely (harder), or in a relationship (as hard depending on the situation).

And all this is not in spite or distrust of women, this is actually because their own feminine "prison" conditions them to have these judgements, attitudes but also counter-intuitive and anti-emancipating desires/criterias (which feminism made worse, again I make this precision so people reading this will understand that what will happen in a few years and is starting to happen, is not just because of reactionary rejection but because this movement actually set the backwards ground for these reactions).

tl;dr: learn to fucking read.

6 years ago*

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Sounds much more logical than some other threads.

6 years ago
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thanks

6 years ago
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That's a great post. I'm not sure why feminism is considered an obstacle to male emancipation though.
I was told to "be a man" by society, by my parents, by my Dad most of all. Not by random women I wanted to date or the internet mob who calls itself feminist because they read some Facebook post about how men suck and they have nothing better to do.
The problem is "be a man", for some reason means no crying, no expressing your feelings, especially not in public, and kicking asses.
Took me years to understand that I don't have to conform to my parents or society's idea of what being a man is. For me, taking my responsibilities to the people around me, being respectful of others, even when what they say make my blood boil, facing obstacles and yes, expressing my feelings, whatever they are, not just the anger and the frustration in me, is what being a man is.
If people, not just men, could express what they feel without fear, what a world it would be.

6 years ago
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OMG you, I love you. It's exactly how I feel toward this issue. It's a "society as a whole" problem, not a gender war.

6 years ago
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Good to read from someone who agrees. Society defines our roles, whether we like it or not, and when people try to get out of their assigned roles, be it gender, class, or many other parameters that are supposed to define us, there is inevitably a push-back from all kinds of factions. But it's not about the parameters, it's about us and society.
We're pitted against each other but we all want the same thing. Love you back ;)

6 years ago
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Deleted

This comment was deleted 6 years ago.

6 years ago
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i like this one

6 years ago
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Exactly. You're either the best human you can be, or a hypocrite and usual weak-minded "fake" who pretends to be a man.

However to be more precise: it's not women to blame per se, yet feminine condition is entwined with masculine condition in that, yes, whether it's from society, your parents, your dad or your friend, the initial underlaying reason for enabling, maintaining or even enforcing the arbitrary stereotype masculine conditioning is that if it's mostly the way to get women, most men will be drawn to enact or pretend whatever is perceived or expressed as being desirable, while those who diverge/refuse it are mostly miserable, lonely and manipulated men UNLESS they do that for the purpose of emancipating and accomplishing themselves.

Hence my recommandation for emancipation, not to blame women, but actually be completely independent and impervious to what they say or want (or think they want) whether it's implicitly expressed by medias and culture or directly and explicitly by some women.

6 years ago*
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I understand you point. And I completely agree. And you are right about something too: sometimes we think something or someone, or even who we are, is what we want, but we are just responding to society/family/peer pressure and we can't separate our real desires from what has been drilled into our minds from childhood. The media, as always, is playing all sides because that's how they make their business.
Thanks for clarifying your point. A very enlightened and articulate post on the matter.

6 years ago
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Thanks. If there's anything I can precise or compact in the OP let me know.

6 years ago
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i feel like a potato. lol, joke if someone gets offended

6 years ago
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I'm offenbached.

6 years ago
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now i feel offenflussed.

6 years ago
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I feel like a potato masher.

View attached image.
6 years ago
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i am not that type of potato. i am good for frying. xD

6 years ago
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Oh. I see. ._____. Every ptotato says it to me "I like you, but I would rather be fried than smashed, sorry". What's wrong with being smashing, tubers?

6 years ago
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tl;dr: be yourself.

and that has not to be an asshole if you happen to be male

6 years ago
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I thought about that cliché phrase "be yourself", and the reason why I don't mention it is because not only wtf does that mean, how and who is yourself, but also because if you think that "being yourself" is what attracts women, you are not emancipating and become yourself but probably still catering to social-pretends and BS norms.

6 years ago
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True, but if one doesn't get what 'being yourself' really means (which is definitely not to act in the most egocentrical way possible), you won't get them to participate in a discussion based on your OP in a meaningful way anyway. Even though I don't fully agree with everything you said since I feel it's a bit one-sided and a little bit biased/subjective (which partially might be because this is a gaming forum and you're not about writing a dissertation here, I get it ;>), kudos for making the post in the first place and sorry for not participating further or elaborating a bit more - I surely don't wanna come across in a disrespectful way, I'm just a bit tired of all the yakity-yak atm and in general, so have a bump at least. In the end, all that dividing here and there basically can be broken down to insecurity and the lack of ability to think for oneself, and the latter is definitely something to be left for Sisyphus, I heard he likes that kind of work ;P.

6 years ago*
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It's probably biased, but I'd like to know how it is subjective.

6 years ago
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Eh, maybe more of a translation issue on my end since I wasn't sure which one to use at that point, but I don't mean it in a derogatory way.

6 years ago*
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no problem

6 years ago
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Nah, I meant it in the original way. A short term for your description above:

and in fact ask yourself a deeper question: but who or how should I be? That's where you evolve towards a second, more subtle and independent (as in it's your responsibility) state

A woman may like me or not. Her decision. But mine is how I behave. And my behaviour can include "social-pretends and BS norms" if I like/agree to them. But it's not the other way around.

6 years ago
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That's interesting. Would your behaviour include "social-pretends and BS norms" if you were totally free (let's say rich to make things simpler) of being yourself? And if these are things that are congruent and feel fulfilling for you this is not pretends.

6 years ago
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Of course. I mean there are reasons for the idiom "treat others like you want to be treated yourself". Nearly everyone has the need for social interactions, reputation, friendship and love. And none of that works permanently without respect and willingness to compromise. I don't know if you count this as "social pretends", but as long as you remain true to yourself, it's imho okay.

6 years ago
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It is easy to have equality with two genders and science confirms there are two.

6 years ago
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There are no such things as two "genders" and science never said that. There are two biological sexes (with few medical exceptions), not two gender which are entirely different.

6 years ago
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A rose by any other name is still a rose.

6 years ago
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In fact rose is a name for more than 360 different organisms.

You'll have serious problems if you want to get into Rose farming.

6 years ago
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But yet he/she will still be deemed a Rose Farmer, no matter how much of a snowflake that rose is :P

(edit: "But yet" is not a thing...ugh)

6 years ago
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Yes! You are what you want, and you are defined by what you do!

You finally understand it!

6 years ago
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I am so very enlightened! Next topic...religion! :P
runs away

6 years ago
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Religion is the opiate of the masses

6 years ago
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I thought that was Oxycodone.... :P

6 years ago
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what is a rose?

6 years ago
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Your culture in this thread. It is almost comical to hear on the other hand of an actual culture/reason/whatever when you want to put these as a basis for your talk. Not surprising though.

"Downward Emasculation". Sure, each person grows up taking a lot of wrong from other people/sources. Sometimes these people want you to share their opinions, sometimes they don't, but still spread own words and stereotypes around, and each person when growing up starts questioning only later where from information comes, are sources credible, what are sources pursuing. Some people never break most walls and stereotypes. These are really general things, not being special regarding masculinity or whatever.

"Upward Emasculation" talks again of fight with enforced stereotypes, so ultimately it is pretty similar to first. Person just needs to start thinking critically to get rid of everything enforced and to follow themselves. Maybe I am a bit generalizing not willing to go deep into specific problems of genders but it is what equality means, these things work similarly for everyone. Men and women all over the world are growing with some local stereotypes and no one is truly happy until they manage to get free of them and follow own inner drives.

"Male Emancipation" - maybe you should get free not from 'women's judgment' but from anyone's judgment. Otherwise, it looks like getting under the 'man's judgment' and entering same problems inside society of men, makes no sense.
Well wish you break free from your prison <3

Man becomes a Man, as Person becomes a Person. We all make ourselves.

6 years ago*
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You're missing an important point. First of all, women are too victims/prisoners of their own condition even if they had the biggest social, media and cultural opportunity not to, which instead they worsened. If we're talking about something as large as a society, then it is the reality of this society, and not some bullshit "equality" claim that feminists betrayed, that we have to address.

We have to start deconstructing from the basis of reality which is that the masculine and feminine conditions are very different today, and actually articulated together. Now I don't pretend to get the whole picture, but this is an absolute certainty that this lever of articulation starts from women's judgement and attraction which orients most conditioned men, but I'm sure the same is true for women regarding men to some extent.

6 years ago
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Regarding sexes, I should add that there are not medical conditions, abhorrent mutations, and abnormalities in nature. There are common and uncommon genetic traits. Intersex conditions are "abnormal" only by human standards.

An uncommon genetic trait could became common in different conditions. Even traits that are considered "diseases", could became the norm if they result in an adaptative advantage (like certain blood conditions that confers parasitic immunity, simply because the blood cells are so fragile that the parasite can't develop)

6 years ago
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you mean people with sickle blood cells who are immun to malaria?

6 years ago
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Could be an example. Now imagine a mortal disease that spreads that way, and you'll have all the surviving human kind with sickle cell anemia.

6 years ago
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You should look up the definitions of "normal" and "abnormal" again...

6 years ago
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You should study a little more.

6 years ago
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Been there, done that..

6 years ago
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"in nature" is the important word. Nowaday, how can you say that we are 100 % natural with all the genetically modified food , pesticides and stuff we eat, and animals that we will eat later are eating too (these are simply random example) ? we also live in a "modern" society where a LOT of different factor thain't ain't natural are cumulated and have to be taken into account. Thus using terms like medical conditions, abhorrent mutations, and abnormalities sounds fairly ok in today's world (especially since everything can be the norm, right)

6 years ago
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Why do people always assume feminism is a single movement? It's just a term designating dozens of ideologies, some of them not being able to stand each other. Some very vocal ideologies among them are terrible but it doesn't mean we should categorize the whole lot of them as bad.

You also seem to consider those "feminists" and SJWs like they're the prime cause and not actually a symptom of a bigger problem :x

Also this

we are not really prisoners of nature anymore (not exactly)

is false. Just because we live in a post-scarcity society doesn't mean we're still not prisoners of nature. We still have to eat, sleep, breathe and all that. As far as I am concerned, the flesh is as much of a prison than society is.

6 years ago
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About that #notallfeminist argument: this doesn't make sense. An ideology is not an ice cream cone you get to chose the flavour of. It is represent by it's dominant discourse and the effective impact it has on society. Nobody cares that a nazis could say "I'm a nazi, but I don't really hate jews", because nazism is still represented by it's major discourse and what it did. Yes that's Godwin point but explains it well.

Unless you consider eating, sleeping and breathing as "prison" then nature is merely a frame in which we can not only created millions of solutions, but also as human we can literally break some of those boundaries.

6 years ago
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You realize that what you say about ideologies also applies to what you wrote in your OP, right? So by your logic we should also ignore your opinion since it's not representative of the dominant thinking about the masculine condition?

Nature might be a frame, but it's a frame we can't get around yet. Since you can't escape those basic needs, yes, I consider them a prison that hinders our development.

6 years ago
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What dominant thinking about the masculine condition? What ideology or even name does my OP echoes to? I'm think by my self, that's the thing, I don't claim being or following any ideology nor can my argument be apparented to any movements (to my knowledge).

Saying nature is a frame we can't get around, is actually usually a very wrong way to see "nature". People think that nature as a prison means a bunch of determinist, eugenistic or hierarchical BS about people...

6 years ago
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What dominant thinking about the masculine condition?

Quoting yourself:

The whole precept of "masculinity" is based on a general idea that, whether we grow-up to be nice guys or coward assholes first, being a man means that you have to A. "succeed" in a broad general sense, on the surface to be "someone" or to get money, this or that material things, but deeper really to get women, and B. that as a man, you don't have a right to complain, be sensitive or seen as "weak", or even be a victim

You might not claim to follow any ideology, but the way you wrote your OP (using your arguments to point to some groups as problematic) turn what would otherwise be just an opinion into a social divide ("us / them"), which is a characteristic of ideological statements. You do the exact same thing when you take what I said about nature to make a statement about "people who think that way" (although I'll give you that I'm probably determinist).

6 years ago
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And what ideology would that be. Because unless I specifically targeted a group of people for the reason of emancipation, targeting other ideology makes an independent opinion and not an ideology, or an anti-ideology at most. You do not de wey.

6 years ago
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"Anti-ideologies" are still ideologies. I don't know which name I could categorize your statements under, but it's not the first time I see something similar on the internet (/r/trp is basically based around this). As I said earlier, even though you might not claim to follow any ideology, your post is still structured in an ideological way. That's the impression it gives anyway.

I know Dewey pretty well, but I usually leave memes to teenagers.

6 years ago
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If you cannot name or pinpoint an ideology, it might just mean that it's not, or else you are seing any opinion as an ideology. But there's a very strict definition of what an ideology is: it means thinking, arguments or dialectics that are articulated around the same rigid sets of principle which the person does not deviate from at any point. And since I do not operate from any ideology but my own thinking, you will find tones that might be similar (although being pretty versatile, I doubt it) and certainly themes or even articulations that echoes things you have the impression to have seen here and there, but I challenge you to find this same complete arguments use in OP anywhere else.

6 years ago
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Difference is that labeling yourself a feminist is a choice made by you. Labeling yourself as man is a choice biology made for you. If you want to tell others you want equality, I wouldn't use a gender-biased word that's commonly used to describe people who only want equality for their own gender.

6 years ago
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I see your point, although the broad term is mostly used for historical reasons since most people wouldn't know what a "third-wave intersectional equal rights advocate" is. Obscure labels are best left to metal bands.

6 years ago
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Everyone knows what an equal rights advocate is so why not use just that. If it gets confused with any of the more rights for some people movements, you can add universal, human or something to clarify. Just feminist is guaranteed to get confused with mainly the militant factions and because of this many women have stopped using the term (or so I've read) to distance them from the ones who don't believe in equality but superiority.

Either you're all-in for equality or you're not at all, picking the parts where you are makes them inequal :)

6 years ago
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^ this

6 years ago
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Religious people cherry-pick the parts they believe in all the time ignoring the simple fact that all 3 Abrahamic religions worship the same angry male wargod whose only message is killing everyone who calls the same wargod with a different name. Those religions have also been a huge hurdle to equality because they are based on toxic mascularity on the highest level.

6 years ago
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dont agree at all on the last part. what is now called "toxic mascularity" (tbh i kind of fatigue to take seriously people using that therm but ok) is a thing since the neolithic era, and nothing had a negative impact on it more than christianity and its underliyng concept of equality whether if you bend to it or not. in a few centuries europe switched from a "hierarchy of the spirit", when men became immortal through their great deeds during life and be remembered as heroes for many centuries after their departure, to an "otherwordly equality" where the only following a certain morale would have granted you the eternity, where the act of dying only would get it sanctified. the "path of the pious" over the "path of the heroes". that is when imho europe started to be sick.

6 years ago
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It's not my term in any way, just a term I've heard used in this context and I thought it fits well enough. Christianity whose holy book says "Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says." ? Christianity that brought us the dark middle ages by banning all science and reason? Christianity that responded to femininity with witch hunts? And so on and on, those 3 religions have brought us nothing but war in one form or another without any actual progress to humanity.

http://biblehub.com/1_corinthians/14-34.htm
http://biblehub.com/exodus/22-18.htm

Edit: Nordic countries are both the most equal and least religious even when our major religion is Christianity, that clearly proves your opinion wrong :)

6 years ago*
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eh, if you want to criticize and highlight the contradictions of the holy text with me you are pretty much entering into a room by breaking through an opened door :v however that was not what i was arguing about, if anything on how hard "gods law" hit those old "heathen" societies, to the point that it changed how those communities related to the world around them, slowly twisting even the psychosocial sphere of each individual touched by it (charlemagne took care of those who dared to resist)

good and short sum up

Edit: Nordic countries are both the most equal and least religious even when our major religion is Christianity, that clearly proves your opinion wrong :)

yes but

Romans 10:11
As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.” For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, for “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

Romans 3:19
Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God.

Acts 10:34
Then Peter began to speak: "I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism but accepts from every nation the one who fears him and does what is right."

Galatians 3:26
So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Colossians 3:11
Here there is no Gentile or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave or free, but Christ is all, and is in all. Therefore, as God's chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience.

James 2:1
My brothers and sisters, believers in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ must not show favoritism. Suppose a man comes into your meeting wearing a gold ring and fine clothes, and a poor man in filthy old clothes also comes in. If you show special attention to the man wearing fine clothes and say, “Here’s a good seat for you,” but say to the poor man, “You stand there” or “Sit on the floor by my feet,” have you not discriminated among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts?

James 2:8
If you really keep the royal law found in Scripture, "Love your neighbor as yourself," you are doing right. But if you show favoritism, you sin and are convicted by the law as lawbreakers.

nordics might even not care much about jewsus and the gods law nowadays despite official religion of those countries directly involves him, but im quite sure that a lot of them hold those underlying concepts as their political views. no different than here, if i grab a random leftist and ask to him what his views are he will pretty much express the same concepts (no race, no ethnicity, no differences between sexes, no social classes, no borders because nation is a social construct, prise globalism, equal treatment for everyone, emphaty) but with no religious connotation (because its opium). furthermore around here the leftist political class and all their followers constantly brags about the "civilized and progressive nordic countries", praising their social policies, their multiculturalism, the rights for the gays, and such things the leftists hold dear. idk you but while i was building the message and copy past those verses i was hearing some hands rubbing compulsively in the distance. if its not christianity it might be something else (but conceptually not much different), or those are indeed the fruits of its passage in nordic lands.

happy cake day btw

6 years ago
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Just gave couple fast examples of why Christianity has never been pro gender equality. You claimed it had a big impact on it, I claim the impact was for the worse. Vikings were among the most gender equal people then and probably even now. Christianity that was brought here much later taught us that women are lesser and should just obey their men.

Even today church people are fighting with each over if they should allow female priests or gay marriages and Christian politicians are trying to get everyone following the traditional family model of working husband, housewife and xy kids.

Edit: all of your quotes are about people from different nations etc being equal, people meaning just men. Nothing at all about genders being equal.

6 years ago*
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that is right, i should have explained myself better in the first message. for me gender equality can go into the trash, the "big impact" i meant it is to be considered to the extent that i feel right on the basis of my personal views (i am one of those "backwards/alt-right reactionaries" tc talks about :v), thus a negative impact. on that regard, christianity softened the condition of women to the extent of what a modern egalitarian could think by introducing into their society the alien desertic concept of "equality", reinforzed by making of men some deluded purposeless folks bent over by the morale of an ideological suprastructure.

Vikings were among the most gender equal people then
Christian politicians are trying to get everyone following the traditional family model of working husband, housewife and xy kids.

dont know where do you inform yourself but thats how the norse society was pretty much structured, despite what is seen in the tv show or very biased outlet busy trying hard to rewrite history. there is no sucha thing as gender equality in pre christian europe. all across the continent the roles were sex tailored, with some minor differentiation from a culture to another (they were possibly the softer, but nevertheless still strict). the only equality to be found is their equal and complementary importance in their society. "men make history, women make the future" - this is the imperative that can be found in all the pre christian society. those roles had also their religious counterparts with divine phanteons depicting male or female deities, often associated to roles tailoed to the activities males and females used to do (they were pretty much organicist phanteon resembling the structure of their society). concerning gender equality, from a modern egalitarian point of view (thus not for me), from the pre christian period up to now the condition of women has been a continuous improvement in europe. probably we wouldnt even be here talking about gender equality if we had not been subjected to a mass religious conversion of continental proportion, and that would have been for the better.

Edit: all of your quotes are about people from different nations etc being equal, people meaning just men. Nothing at all about genders being equal.

now, you cant seriously expect a verse written centuries ago talking about gender equality. let alone that even the gender concept was given non-sexual connotation (social and cultural) only during the last century. the only possible association is based on biological sex.

Galatians 3:26
So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

this is the closer reference. a form of equality ("otherwordly") achieved through belief. an equality that comes from the annihilation of the concept of biological sex itself making of jewsus your only identity. if this approach doesnt remind me of something...

6 years ago
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Like I said, most equal at that time so women had some freedom and rights, not just be property. Everywhere else was much worse and still continue to be mainly thanks to religions so my statement is still true.

http://www.history.com/news/what-was-life-like-for-women-in-the-viking-age
"it’s clear that Scandinavian women in Viking Age society enjoyed more freedom and power in their communities than many other women of their day"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordination_of_women
"The ordination of women to ministerial or priestly office is an increasingly common practice among some major religious groups of the present time, as it was of several pagan religions of antiquity though never of Judeo-Christian religions"

First female bishop was in 2014, it's society that's softening the religion to be more equal, not the other way around. Good thing I checked before using bishop, so come back to me when there is a female pope or archbishop or whatever they are. :P

I don't expect the verses to be about any kind of equality because their main use was to give justification to attacking neighboring tribes because they call the same wargod with a different name and wear wrong colored clothes when offering their kids to him. But have to admit somehow missed that part, probably got mixed with the one below that lacks men and women.

Deuteronomy 13
15 you must certainly put to the sword all who live in that town. You must destroy it completely, both its people and its livestock.
16 You are to gather all the plunder of the town into the middle of the public square and completely burn the town and all its plunder as a whole burnt offering to the Lord your God. That town is to remain a ruin forever, never to be rebuilt

Are you following this guideline and doing that to any town where someone follows the wrong god?

The sad day for human evolution happened when the natural religions celebrating Mother Earth and ancestral spirits were replaced with worshipping angry male wargods whose only purpose was to give justification for killing everyone else, not teach about equality of any kind.

6 years ago*
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s-starwhite? i swear im gonna shot myself in the head right now :v there is no such a thing as "equal" in pre christian european period, ever. it was a nonexisting concept back then, and if you look at that historical period now you wont find any trace of it. you are bestowing modern canons to a past to which they are not applicable, you are basically rewriting history like the outlet i mentioned above. pls dont.

you are cherry picking right there. it is true that they had more freedom compared to other societies of that period, but that freedom was tied to the role to which they were confined by their biological sex- the role of women in that case. cant go out of that binary, to do so was forbidden and even punishable. this was true for women as much as for men. to each their tasks.

it's society that's softening the religion to be more equal
still dont agree on that, at all. its christianity that started the events that would later lead to the concept of "equality" as we now intend it.

would be interesting to define that "society". the society that brought the modern concept of equality in europe are either socialism (of a communist matrix) and neoliberism (currently up). would have these ideologies root in the mind and the spirit of european folks if they werent already plagued by christianity and its "soft equality"? its a question i often make to myself. to consider again that the values of neoliberism can be seen in christianity in the verses i pasted above. its like if there is a connection behind all of that. really fertilize the petunias tbh.

so come back to me when there is a female pope or archbishop or whatever they are. :P

eh, and you come back to me when you find a female jarl :v that role too was dominated by men just like christian clergy, though i dont see you blaming them norse for that, instead you consider them more "equal" (wat). the same is true for any other kind of role as they were sex tailored. if your concern is gender equality you should be blaming them basically for everything. the female condition in middle age wasnt that bad. sure, the more you were near the clergy power the less women you would have seen. it is in this period that for ordinary woman started to be viable the possibility to do tasks that before christianity were limited to men only. christianity broke every balance concerning sexes roles and made up false binaries based on gods law.

Are you following this guideline and doing that to any town where someone follows the wrong god?

i dont understand what do you mean here

agree on that last part, though be careful right there. personally during my research and reading of ancient aryan-european folks i never found a so called "mother nature" deity. the closer association can be some female figure as the role of !deity of fertility!, often considered "mother". despite that they were still secondary deity as at the center of the phanteon there is always a male figure (as there were in their societies), often as the role of the "warrior" or "constructor". what was celebrated back then was the unity of the tribe and the "fatherland", a concept that national-socialism tried to bring back in germany. the concept of "mather nature" imo was drawn by some neopagan effeminate hyppies with no knowledge of pre christian society - antichristian to the bones but drenched so much with it they made of a politheistic cult a monotheistic one, worshipping the abstract figure of "mother nature" (which for them basically consist in loving trees and grass). they say they hate the jews but they are almost doing what the proto-jews did with the canaanite religion, taking the major deity of the phanteon and carving out of it a monotheistic religion and beautifying it with other stuff taken from ancient egyptian religion and other sick shit just to have an identity of their own. neopagans are retard, they ridiculize and overshadow real heathenism.

6 years ago
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"there is no such a thing as "equal" in pre christian european period, ever. "

Could you at least point me to where I claimed there was? You're the one claiming that Christianity was the only thing that brought us equality when facts have proven it brought us nothing but wars, misery and total death of science for hundreds of years. I merely said that something can be more equal than total inequality without being fully equal. Stop trying to see black&white and accept the grayscale between.

Good men will come up with good things just fine without some imaginary angry male wargod on top of a cloud imaginarily enforcing the deeds. This has been proven by philosophists of all ages that had nothing at all to do with religion, only reason, and those are totally opposite things. So claiming that worhipping an angry male wargod somehow makes you better person is still just ridiculous. This is clearly proven by all the wars and suffering religions have mainly caused.

"eh, and you come back to me when you find a female jarl :v that role too was dominated by men just like christian clergy"

I'm talking about the church of today if you somehow missed the bishop in 2014, not 1420. Christianity of 2018 is still so anti-equality it's ridiculous to claim they have mysteriously been pro- at some point.

"i dont understand what do you mean here"

I mean literally what I say, if you believe in any bit in that fairy tale book, you should believe in all. If not, then the question was irrelevant, sorry for getting confused by you defending the book.

I'm not talking about recent European religions but the original ones. If you worship any presentation of fertility, life giving and taking care, obviously it gets associated with mothers and women in general. And if you worship an angry wargod, obviously it's always male. When pantheons replaced just being one with nature that's when imaginary beings, or rather the people in power pretending that there is such a thing, started having the power of giving commands to people. Natural/ancestral spirits vs some made up personification of earthly power.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animism
"Animism encompasses the beliefs that all material phenomena have agency, that there exists no hard and fast distinction between the spiritual and physical (or material) world and that soul or spirit or sentience exists not only in humans, but also in other animals, plants, rocks, geographic features such as mountains or rivers or other entities of the natural environment, including thunder, wind and shadows. "

That's actual equality in a core belief system, not the hippie stuff glued on top of Abrahamic religions thousands of years later and edited to be totally different all the time to suit the needs of the rulers of that day.

6 years ago
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ehrmm, third message of yours starting from your last one up here

Vikings were among the most gender equal people then and probably even now.

sigh dont start putting things into my mouth now. i said that christianity kind of "fertilized the groud" so that the seed of modern days equality could attach more within us. it did so by canceling the concept of politheistic phantheons and replacing them with a "one god for everyone" religions. i think we are not understanding each other because you are putting it in a materialistic way, while my point of view was strictly spiritual since the very first message ive left. gotta also understand that supporting equality makes someone a better person only for your personal view here. again, from a spiritual point of view, pre christian societies were mugged by an alien god who said that your race, your ethnicity, your sex, your social class and everything those verses says doesnt really matter as long as you believe in him, because just by doing so "you will be saved". there is the gender equality concept, and equality in general. achieved by canceling who you might be or not in the material world by making you all one with christ in the spiritual world. no doubt that it had an impact even from a material point of view as the material andh the spiritual world are closely related, but this is getting exhausting tbh.

"I'm talking about the church of today if you somehow missed the bishop in 2014, not 1420. Christianity of 2018 is still so anti-equality it's ridiculous to claim they have mysteriously been pro- at some point. "

eh, because unlike us you dont have the vatican. guess pope francis doesnt have much echo in nordic countries, pretty sure you would like him. lucky you :v (or maybe not as there the neoliberal agenda is on a whole different level)

I mean literally what I say, if you believe in any bit in that fairy tale book, you should believe in all. If not, then the question was irrelevant, sorry for getting confused by you defending the book.

dont understand what made you think that. i dont, and nor do you, though europe is christian, so evidently for whatever reason someone in the past fell for it. and now europe is cucked far behiond the point of no return. coincidence? doubt.

When pantheons replaced just being one with nature that's when imaginary beings, or rather the people in power pretending that there is such a thing, started having the power of giving commands to people.

perhaps those people in power have found another tool to agitate in front of the masses for tricking them. possibly a tool far more sophisticated than the previous one. just saying

bud... tbh by reading that, animism really seems some hyppie stuff :v but will look deeper into it when i can. though gotta notice in that wiki copypaste that just like in christianity, equality is achieved through deprivation. in christ you are deprived of your own identity and characteristics, as now you are one with jewsus. in that animism everything has a soul or spirit, even stones. so stones are elevated and put on the same plan of existence of the humans. you are deprived of your superior status. this is wrong toward humans, because we are more than stone, more than the shadow they create when you throw one on a sunny day (but of course you dont just throw rocks with animism... that would offend their souls)

6 years ago
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These days equality of all sorts in measured and given points like this: https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2017/11/these-are-the-world-s-most-gender-equal-countries/
What I only meant is that if everyone else has a score of 0.00, even having 0.01 would make your culture the most equal of that time, not that they were 1.00. And that a lot of people today live in countries where religion keeps equality far away at any cost. Hope that clears it up. A free woman was more equal than a slave of either gender but less equal than a free man.

Having to worship a specific wargod to gain equality with everyone else who does the same thing isn't any kind of equality. Sure it doesn't treat genders different, but still does require you to fill certain requirements to be equal. My spiritual view is a mix of Buddhism and realism. To me it has always been the only "religion" that makes sense since it doesn't tell you absolute truths that you must just believe in but gives you tools that you can use to find out yourself. But as a lazy realist I know fully well I'm not spending 50 years meditating on a top of a mountain to gain anything, especially when I have no way to know if it's actually how things are or not. I'll find that out eventually or then not. I just give it a higher probability of being true than most other religions, not 1.00 but far below, so if I had to choose one it would that, but I'm not choosing.

I don't have any priests or bishops either for that matter. I quit the church I was joined to without asking me anything as soon as it was allowed at 15yo because I could think for myself and never looked back. It's mainly the elderly that are very religious here any more, younger people go to church for weddings, funerals etc just because it's traditional and not doing so would anger their elders.. I prefer our Lutheran church to Catholic if not for anything else but the lack of choirboys so no thanks to popes, who seems to spend most of their time spreading AIDS in Africa by saying condoms are from the devil.

Somehow I associated your backwards/alt-right reference and bible quotes to being one of those militant religious nutjobs USA is full of, sorry for that. Maybe because I have no idea who tc is but getting warned about something makes me assume the worst.

People in power always find ways, that's true. Religion is just the easiest at least in my eyes. The leaders don't have any personal responsibility ever. If someone questions their actions, they are heretics and can be killed with impunity. Everything bad is the will of the Lord (in heaven) and it's because you deserve it. So better pay up heavy taxes to the Lord (on Earth) to take care of your spiritual needs. A priest is easier to maintain and can control masses better than an army.

Yeah my quote was from the newer versions of animism, which are heavily new age. The original ones were just step one in the evolution of religion, first coming up with the concept or any kind of spirit that you can't see. Then gradually turning that abstract concept to deity worship and finally getting intelligent enough to drop all religions. I remember reading that some native American tribes actually treated even rocks in that way. Also think that in those religions you can throw a rock, kill an animal, fell a tree and whatever as long as you give your thanks to the spirit for it's sacrifice. Eating and getting eaten is a normal part of any life.

http://www.skeptic.ca/Native_Religion.htm
"According to our way of looking, the world is animate. This is reflected in our language, in which most nouns are animate...Natural things are alive, they have a spirit. Therefore, when we harvest wild rice on our reservation we always offer tobacco to the earth because, when you take something, you must always give thanks to its spirit for giving itself to you"

6 years ago
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wew there is even the equality meter now, didnt know that there was a thing like that lol.
but you are still using a yardstick that did not exist in those time... its kind of a nonsense to judge the past with the morale of today, because it wasnt a thing back then.

eh, however thats what the writings says, and its pretty clear what they mean on a conceptual level. then of course, even an animist rock is aware of the underlying contradiction it has.
even my father is a buddhist, since almost ever basically. vegetarian for 20 years and more. sad that we europeans look either toward east or south to feed our spirits, when the land we are inhabiting is itself our spirit.

yeah same thing here, teens are to busy with instagram and such. ive quit the church even early, iirc around 13-14 yo, after my grandfather died. still visiting them sometimes though, more for enjoying a bit of silence rather than feeling closer to the desertic god.

np. i might be bad, but not that bad :v

thanks, gotta bookmark that. will give it a read.

6 years ago
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You would know if you lived in any of the top countries, then it's all over media. ;)

For entertainment purposes I fully support local "pagan" religions, where Yule was 12 days of drinking, eating and taking care of fertility for next year and every other holiday was like that too but usually shorter.

6 years ago
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<3

6 years ago
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I agree that "toxic masculinity" is a connoted term that as been overused in all the wrong ways. I just use it for a lack of better terms, and put the parenthesis around for that precise reason. As for the "path of the heroes" I'm not sure I agree with the whole picture because I don't your approach of it, but I damn agree.

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Feminism is at this point really not just a single ideology, it's a wildly different set of ideologies with a common basis. Much like Stalinistic communism & Anarcho-socialism not only both fall under the same umbrella term of "Socialism" and grew out of the same base ideologies, so does feminism vary a lot (but not quite as much as Stalinistic communism and anarcho-socialism).
And a dislike of the "other" is a core part of the Nazi ideology, so if you remove that you're no longer a Nazi (but might still be a fascist), but you could be an authoritarianist or a lbieralist and still call yourself a socialist, but you would not believe in a completely free market and stil be a socialist (there is such a thing as market socialism, but I hopefully made my point clear without having to go into details about it). Certain things associated with certain beliefs are "core" parts of it, others are not. So your example does not really hold up.

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Can I be a Stalinist that thinks Stalin was equal to any and all world leaders? You just argumented that the people who believe in real equality shouldn't label themselves as feminists since the core of those beliefs is contained in the word itself already.

If you want true equality, call yourself equalist (or egalistariansnismist if you're french) and not something where even the label is against equality.

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The label is not inherently against equality, but it does show what movement it grew out of.

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So I can just decide to grow to be a 3rd level Stalinist Nazi who wants only to spread love and happiness to every human being? Without it having anything at all to do with what those words actually mean?

How can words like fireman be against equality if feminism is not?

6 years ago
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Are Stalinist and Nazi not kinda mutually exclusive, considering Nazism is a subset of fascism, while Stalinism is a kind of authoritarian communism? (I decided to specify authoritarian, because otherwise someone will point out that communism, based on its original ideas, were in fact not an authoritarian ideology, and that Stalinism is in fact relatively far from "communism"... That's not a defense of communism, by the way). So no, you could not be that. But you could firmly believe that a hateful ideology like Nazism is "good", and that by kicking out/killing (not all Nazis wants to kill those "other", some just don't want them nearby) and that you're spreading happiness and making the world a better place.

How can a word like fireman be against equality? Can it? Or is it just a case of people deciding that something is against equality even when it's not?

6 years ago
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Just like feminism and equality are mutually exclusive, that was my point. Since they can use feminism to mean all sorts of things it's not, I am free to do the same to Stalinism and Nazism aren't I? Not that I care for or support either. But the original movements have nothing at all to do with my 3rd level new movement, I'm just using the same names for no reason because I can decide what words mean, not anyone else.

Because it's gender-biased, they are supposed to be called firefighters even if 99%+ would be men. Just pointing out how it's silly feminists are against using fireman but feminism is OK. Double standards are the core of feminism.

6 years ago
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Feminism and equal rights is not mutually exclusive. Just because a movement was focused on a particular part of the equal rights issues, and not all parts of it, does not mean it's not an equal rights movement.

Any movement of that size will have its radical elements. But claiming that "feminists" claims that the word "fireman" is sexists is about as true as claiming that conservatives are white supremacists (a line of thinking that, for some, has gone roughly like this: White supremacists supports Trump to a large extent in the US->Trump is popular among conservatives->Conservatives are white supremacists). It's not how things really work, but if you're mostly following liberal/anti-Trump media, it's very easy to think that this is the case. And the same thing holds true with your feminist example about firemen, you're attributing what a specific sub-set of it says and does (radical feminists) to all feminists.

And the internet is a "great" place to get stuck in those information bubbles. If you're watching videos like this, and only videos with that particular political leaning, you'll get stuck in an information bubble where "Trump supports->Nazis". On the same token, if you're following youtubers like The Amazing Atheist, Thunderf00t or Sargon, you'll get stuck in a relation bubble where feminists->man haters and anti-equal rights. (Of course, if you're just following people on the radical end of feminism you'll get the idea that all of society is there to suppress women. I don't know any off the top of my head, but they are out there).

6 years ago*
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So I can claim that all bad things Stalinists and Nazis have done are only the work of few radicals. Since we can't even judge the original movements to be bad just because of those few, I'm free to use both words to mean everything good and happy in the world.

No idea about Trumps, that's only a source of humor here, nothing serious and neither would I follow any of their media.

If I call myself a Nazi now, does that mean I support the actions of all Nazis before or not? Can I be a Nazi that only wants to spread love and happiness to everyone?
No? So then feminists shouldn't be allowed to use a name that's the opposite of equality either. That is and will be my opinion about it.

Want female domination? Call it feminism
Want equality? Call it equalism (egal is French, equal is English)

6 years ago
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A dislike of others is not a the core part of the Nazi ideology even if most believe so. Nazis authorities met and works with jews (Herzl and zionists), muslims (Jerusalem Mufti, Persia...), black (met with some african leaders) etc...yet this rejections of others was hidden in it's core.

But that's the point, an ideology is defined by it's base principles and but it's core can be corrupted or have the unavoidable elements of discrimination hidden in it's core. However I was talking about a movement. And yes, the same way the Nazi movement WAS defined by their atrocities, the feminist movement is defined by it's sexism and anti-equality.

6 years ago
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The inferiority of other 'races' was and is always a core belief of the Nazi ideology, but like with all these deluded extremists (not only nazis), they more often than not deviate from their core principles as far as and as soon as it benefits their own goals and/or the pay cheque is high enough. Shows even more how deplorable and morally bankrupt all of these sociopaths were and unfortunately to this day are, only out for their personal gain and simply using their propaganda to lure in enough cannon fodder sheep to delay 5-0 long enough to calmly empty out the bank vault without a single fuck given how many innocents had to suffer in the meantime. One of today's problems with a lot of these movements is IMO that people reverted once again to a state where they're unable to think outside of their little box of black and white, and this is also why media only prefers to show the most extreme parts - drama still brings the best rating numbers. Feminism in itself is a way too broad and partly watered-down concept/term to be truly comparable to something as specific as national socialism, but I think I do get your notion ;>.

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It is true that the Nazis did work with Jews, Muslims and other "other", but that does not change the fact that the dislike of the "other" was a core part of the Nazi ideology. They had a system for eradicating Jews and Romani in place, and Jews were at a severe disadvantage (to put it very mildly) within Nazi-controlled territory, with only those who were either able to hide their Jewish origin, or those who could bring some special expertise to the table were treated well. So just because the Nazis did work with some Jews does not mean that they liked Jews, as the systematic eradication would attest to (and the systematic discrimination towards other "minorities" is quite a strong indication that they did in fact not like them).

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good post, best one so far. thread name is a bit opinionated and narcissistic tbh.

with a few medical exceptions.

true so, two biological sexes, but without exception of any kind here. just biological malformation that does not add as proper biological sex. they are to be classified no more and no less for what they are (malformation).

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This is the argument of the people that does not understand biology. There are a multiplicity of sexes on Nature.

In HUMANS... a few medical exceptions (occurances of the intersex individuals are 1 in 500 to 1 in 2000) Which represents dozens of millions in a 7.000.000.000 people planet.

Even if you only consider "medical exceptions", what would you do with all that people?

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No. Sexual Dimorphism. Read a biology book.

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no, there are only two sexes, even in the natural world. intersex is not a sex per se, it comes under the form of defects or dysfunctions (hormonal, chromosomical anatomical) or as a form of strategic reproduction (eg. hermafrodite snails).

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Marking everything not fitting in simplistic models as 'exceptions' or even throw away as malformation is ignorant point of view.
Yes this is not 'third' option in the same sense as conventional biological male and female sex, and there is a big variety of different cases making the option not homogeneous, but rather filling the whole space in between poles of male and female sex. Actually what is conventionally considered 'healthy' male and female are not binary poles, but also vary a lot, e.g. some females having a lot of masculine features and vice versa, but this is ignored by people who wish to divide "in two" as long as classified people are reproduction-able as either one of sexes.

Still people in-between exist and are manifestation of nature, as all other people are, and should be accepted as they are, let to live on the same rights and decide what they want to do in life not forced e.g. to medical solutions in small age (since in number of cases when they grow up it turns that sex was chosen for them wrong), and not forced to take any of binary roles since even their nature doesn't imply taking any of these predefined extrema. Perfectly typical males and females don't need to assume these predefined by others roles either, but with people in-between it just becomes more apparent, obvious, and being aware of this can help everyone to understand themselves better through empathy, ability to learn from others.

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im just calling things with their names, and i intend to keep doing it.

but

no but.
there is no space to be filled and no "inbetween person" out there. there are always, always, predominant characteristics that makes you belong either the one or the other group, being them hormonal, chromosomical or anatomical. a male born with femininish face traits is still a male, a female born with her perfectly functioning female genital organs AND with a big pair of non functioning hairy manly balls is still a female. a female born with a chromosomal defect that makes her have phenotipical male traits which impede or preclude her reproductive function is a genetic disease; it is natural? of course. it is normal? nope. even cancer is natural, but it clearly aint normal (bad analogy was intended). you can mystify reality for the sake of emphaty and delude yourself (and worst, others) into think that there is nothing wrong with them as much as you want, that wont change the crude reality.

empathy

no.

6 years ago
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Congratulations for your patience

6 years ago
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Congratulations for your reading (and thanks).

6 years ago
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Appreciate your thoughtful input, but have to completely disagree with the idea that women aren't interested in nice guys. That's such a myth - and while it's true that many teenage girls and very young women are drawn to the magnetism of "bad boys", by the time they reach mid-twenties most have already realised that's not what they're really looking for.

6 years ago
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Thank you for the continuation on my thread.i haven't read it yet but I will when I have time out if university.

I made a thread that should have been better if I had more time in research. I just thought I would get more insight in a topic I wasn't very informed about however most people cared about sources I used instead of informing and giving good productive advice...

Bump

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No problem, you actually did the single most important thing: start and open this discussion :) So maybe I was wrong about the necessity or even possibility for women to start or even enable expression on these topics. Even if I still think it's up to men to also stop being dumb wusses in a way or another, and take matter into their hands both for themselves but also for other men and finally women.

6 years ago
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tl;dr:I want gender quality

6 years ago
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6 years ago
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Gender IS something irrelevant to sex, however not to biology since it is still something determined very early on but we actually have no fucking idea. As for equality, if the scale is on one side, it's not equality period. But then equality is very hard to achieve, and then not so much since we have it in many domain: freedom of expression doesn't mean every opinion gets an equal attention, but it means every one as the same equal right to express it.

6 years ago
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6 years ago
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  1. Not in certain circles, in science where it there is a consensus in the validity of these concept. Being a "man" or a "woman" doesn't mean shit in scientific terms for human (and even some animals), because humans are not and can't be define just by having a penis or vagina, and physiological the variation of size, muscles and strength is distributed amongst men and female solely according to their base genetic make-up, nutrition, exercise and training. But then, psychologically, human can not be described simply as man or woman or even male/female because that's not how the brain works, we traditionally associate some "values" as being "masculine" or "feminine" but these are in no way related to biology or genetics, so for a lack of better definitions we associate these to the people that have been nurtured, educated or conditioned into doing or exerting, yet nothing in nature or psychics can make it impossible or even rare for other gender to do or exerts these attitudes because this is not rooted in biology.

  2. I don't agree: there is what we should (and in fact as human, have to) strive for to evolve, but then there is the current reality, that has sometimes deep roots. The problem with SJW, categorisation and even science sometimes is that indeed you can't change things if you just spew bullshit that are not true or exact or relevant enough both for people to accept but also change themselves. That's what SJWs did, whether it's for racism, sexism or sexophobies in general which they all made worse by spewing non-exact, some-times false things with aggressive and soft-fascistic methods. But that doesn't mean it's entirely false or we should aim for equality, and that the opposite reactionary backward attitude is true. Both are wrong, equality is not something given or even easy, it's fucking hard to achieve and yet we have no choice because as soon as we regress or stop trying this means, crisis, social violence and conflict, and eventually war.

6 years ago
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6 years ago
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"Science" is actually exactly what put Nazis in power for exactly the same reasons. How do you think a whole country started hating jews, with occult jiberish and just conspiracy theories? Not they used the same pseudo-science to justify that they somehow have smaller skulls, therefor must be less intelligent, also that men or women were not just physiologically defined but also psychologically and emotionally defined that way and so on.

There's no need for "new terms" because any women that exercises or trains in a sport/combat more than 90% of men will be better, the same way a man who learns and trains in say hairdressing or whatever cliché attributed to women, will be better than 90% of women.

And the reason I mention Nazis is because stagnation and people being unhappy only means one thing for the situation. I'm not saying BS identity politics (which I hate) would change anything, it's purely political first, economical then, but then social and mediatic, and when people are too cowardly to attack the actual problems cited above, guess what they do? Revert and try to justify with pseudo-science BS that "actually, let's no try to evolve and understand better, let's go backward and justify racism, sexism and such with ways that will satisfy our limited knowledge and comprehension"...

6 years ago
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6 years ago
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^this

wouldnt say that hate toward communism is irrational though.

6 years ago
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6 years ago
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eh, thats the point. they knew...

6 years ago
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Nazis came to power first and foremost because they proclaimed themselves champions of anti-communism...

There was more to it than that, but you'd have to dig in the library for information. Most schools and universities will only feed you the propaganda of "the winning side."

6 years ago
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considering how critic you are over feminism (shareable critics btw) its very weird that you take gender seriously, as the "gender" with connotations that are not related to biological sex is a feminist creation

6 years ago
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It's not a feminist creation, is a philosophical and scientific notion that predates SJW degenerates. There is nothing that groundbreaking in thinking that beyond the simple male/female biological sexes, you will find in human (and actually some animal), lots of nuanced variations in what we call "masculine" or "feminine" characters, attitudes or attributes.

Especially amongst humans where those characteristics are not simply physiological (and even then some women are taller or have wider shoulders, while some men have bigger asses or even man boobs than some women), but nuanced and varied psychological structures or emotional attitudes, meaning no man is 100% "masculine" and no woman is 100% "feminine" because beyond physiology it doesn't even exist.

Gender means that beyond having a pipi a vagigi, all humans are a nuanced and mixed of physiological but most importantly psychological or emotional attributes which means some people could be described (even that is a limited description) as being 60% "masculine" and 40% "feminine", but any woman could too, and vice-versa. So nothing ground-breaking.

Problems happened when stupid degenerate SJWs started pushing for "gender" as being a deterministic and fixed description of sexual identity, then confusing it with sexual orientation, then going haywire by inventing tons of pokemon genders that don't mean shit, all the while basically saying "either you're part of the 20% of people who are lgbtqx that have 200 genders that don't mean shit, or you're part of a 80% monolithic bloc of people that are somehow the same hetero cliché" which was their biggest mistake.

6 years ago
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not only feminist apparenty. to be precise, a philosophical and scientific notion coming no less than from a jewish feminist. just imagine my shock.

https://debuk.wordpress.com/2016/12/15/a-brief-history-of-gender/

this passage is worth to be highlighted

"Just as the end goal of socialist revolution was not only the elimination of the economic class privilege but of the economic class distinction itself, so the end goal of feminist revolution must be… not just the elimination of male privilege but of the sex distinction itself: genital differences between human beings would no longer matter culturally."

Gender means that beyond having a pipi a vagigi, all humans are a nuanced and mixed of physiological but most importantly psychological or emotional attributes which means some people could be described (even that is a limited description) as being 60% "masculine" and 40% "feminine", but any woman could too, and vice-versa. So nothing ground-breaking.

nothing groundbreaking because despite whether you might feel this or that, you are already one of the two. lets continue on that route instead of mixing things up to appease a small number of mislead people, lets stop talking about genders to our little children and to expose them to that narrative. then on course, and you are no doubt right over that, the psychosexual identity is a very complex matter. turning the tide is already difficult per se. if you convince those people that there is nothing wrong with them (hence no cognition of cause) its literally impossible.

6 years ago
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If by jewish feminist you mean Shulamith Firestone, then nope, she didn't invent this concept which dates far back before, and by philosophers I mean Butler, Foucault, Derrida and many other before.

Also no, you are not already "masculine" for exemple, because beyond having a pre-defined biological make-up, and a dick, this doesn't mean anything scientifically pertaining to anything we associate with masculine traits, attitudes, or characters. Feminist/Lgbtqist/SJW have simply completely fucked over pretty complex, but highly sophisticated, advanced and mostly true concepts, while attacking other's people characters, sex and attitude, and pissing all over the actual science or definitions. But this doesn't mean the concept in their true definition, which is not complete in it's interpretation or maybe it's description, are wrong.

I don't think there's anything wrong with people unless these people have had their heads fucked or fucked themselves with, it's just that if youtube sjw degenerates are the only "models" they've got and that it becomes more of a confusing trend than who people actually are, I agree that it actually becomes a problem. I have some friends (girls) who "turned" lesbian (bi more specifically), more because it was trendy and they were searching for things in the wrong place thanks to feminist propaganda, than because they really were that way. I say no problem if you find your own, but if not (which is the case as I know they don't give a shit about their "girlfriend" nor found anything), then that's just fucked-up propaganda.

6 years ago
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the earlier date reported on the blog is 1945. before that some insinuations were reported on some books written by jewish feminist "Margaret Mead" (starting by 1928). of course she didnt invented the therm, it already existed before she was even born. she bestowed on it other connotations outside of biological sexes, or maybe made a part of that job.

so we can pretty much say that the aforementioned revolution already happened. biological distinctions are still a thing (for now), but that doesnt really matter from a cultural or social point of view. idk, call me conspiracy theorist maybe, but its like there is a pattern behiond all of that.

eh, vae victis. but yes, that would be quite sad [1, 2]. problem is that "finding your own" inevitably requires the community where you live in to recognize your condition, which can only by acquired by "normalizing" that status, thus by bending that community based on what is still an abnormality (with the well known argument "BUT WHAT DOES IT CHANGE FOR YOU" perfectly showing the selfishness, egocentrism, narcissism and batshit individualism behind this deceit)

6 years ago
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SteamGifts forums. Where experts all over the world converge and discuss important topics.

6 years ago
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Lurking in off topic forums to find what?

6 years ago
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boom

6 years ago
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Scouring the internet for renowned experts obviously. I mean its not like people post giveaways in the forums ever.

6 years ago
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Or you could just chat here to pass the time while waiting for more points or giveaways to appear, like most others are.

6 years ago
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The point wasn't forums in general, but off topic. Though there are off topic threads with GAs which explains your motivation to scouting them, it's no reason to make fun of the topic or the participants regarding the choice of the topic, since it's off topic and therefore not related to Steam games/gifting.

6 years ago
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They are obviously experts. Just giving them credit where credit is due you know.

6 years ago
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Gotta bump to spread that awareness!

6 years ago
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thanks

6 years ago
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Next stop distant future, men who look like girls and girls who look like men....oh wait. o.O

6 years ago
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Wonder why he is permanently suspended and this thread is still up...

6 years ago
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didnt even noticed that :0 isnt permaban given only with certain infringements such as multiple account and others?

r.i.p. notabene

6 years ago
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He added me earlier so I looked at SG to see what happened and seen his profile...

He still hasn't replied to my hello yet

6 years ago
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This thread (and his opinions expressed within it) had nothing to do with him being banned. Permabans are for those who absolutely refuse to abide by the rules.

6 years ago*
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I didn't think it would be the thread, I thought it might be multiple accounts or whatever.

I just thought that because they were permabanned the thread would be closed also! So what I mean is they get banned then all giveaways and threads are closed :P

6 years ago
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Giveaways will end on their own. As for threads, those are only closed if there is a compelling reason to close them.

6 years ago
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Ah okay fair enough! Thanks for the info :D

6 years ago
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6 years ago
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tl;dr: learn to fucking not get permanently suspended.

6 years ago
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6 years ago
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Slightly drunk, pls spare (or prepare) your BL´s.

Today the radio told me that german armed forces (Bundeswehr) are going to look into some cases of sexual harassement, it quoted cases of "blowing someone a kiss", "touching someones shoulder", and "rape".

For all that´s holy, don´t fucking get me wrong, i think women do have all the rights that men have. But anyone throwing a fit over touching shoulders is nuts! I do well understand that blowing kisses in a job dominated by men can very well be considered sexist. And rape is fully out of discussion. But touching someones fucking shoulders? I don´t wan´t to live on this planet anymore!

You gotta stop that bullshit if you ever want to achieve any form of equality. Anytime i receive hugs at work (no matter the gender) even though i feel invaded in my personal space, i know the giving party is likely to have only good intents. Pls stop piggybacking on some irrational #mimimi debates.

At this rate, I ´m only wondering how soon being a gentle(wo)man will be considered sexist aswell....

6 years ago*
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well written, bumpy

6 years ago
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You've conflated sexual orientation with sexual preference. SO is about sexual and romantic attraction to biological sex and is directed at males, females, both or none. All that other stuff -- BDSM, furries, tall blondes, cuddling, mile-high club, kitchen appliances -- and the hundreds of other turn-ons and turn-offs fall under sexual preference, NOT sexual orientation. Some preferences are transient, some develop slowly over time and others are persistent due to deep developmental roots. They are shaped by all kinds of factors throughout a person's lifetime.

You're missing a fourth bullet.

6 years ago
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View attached image.
5 years ago
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