It's from the movie Stand by Me, but the gif is in reverse. :P Btw, check out that movie because it's really awesome.
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KILL IT WITH FIRE
KILL IT WITH FIRE
KILL IT WITH FIRE
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This might be the first time I 100% agree with you :D
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At first I was a little confused until I realized Lurcher is a breed as well. Funny thing is although my family had dogs all my life I'm not that good with breeds :)
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Except the "leecher" and "seeder" definitions came about specifically to refer to types of users on a torrent. And "leecher" was still wholly redundant.
"Leech" already sufficed for the purposes that "leecher" have begun to supplant it for; it was already a noun meaning "one who leeches" and a verb meaning "to leech".
Lastly, referencing Urban Dictionary in a lexicological discussion is often a low-effort, low-information venture since if the word has a standard definition already traditional lexigraphical sources are usually better.
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I'm reference Urban Dictionary because word "leecher" is a slang. So, what you said is just "This word is a slang, and there are exact same word that is not slang". But I know this already! Come on, we are on the informal game-oriented society, using slang words here is completely normal. And in turn, fighting for a clear language here is strange thing.
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In your initial response to OP you countered with a see, it's defined in a lexicographical resource sort of rebuttal. I rebutted that. Now you're trying to move the goalposts by being all well, it's slang, and this place is informal, and fighting for clear language here is a strange thing.
If you want to make that latter point, then make it. First referencing UD as your reply undermines that.
Anyway, the point is "leecher" is redundant and useless. It's not as bad as or as decried as "irregardless". That's the best that can be said of it.
And when dealing with individuals whom are not native English-speakers, as is the case on this site with a base of international users, advocating for 'proper' English is neither strange, nor unwelcome when the case is as clear as it is here. It's not like English has a governing body that rules upon the use of the language that one can easily reference to settle disputes. The case must be made through reasoned and persuasive arguments.
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In my response to OP I just wanted to show that this word is commonly used. I would not come with the reference to UD if we were talking about, say, a book of some official document (have no idea what kind of document may need such term), but considering in what community we are - I found articles from UD appropriate and legit.
Of course, as a non-native speaker I can find this topic interesting and useful. It's always good to learn something new. What I dislike is "pin this" in the start post. It's like this particular slang word is more important than the others, and even like it's really important to write in clean language without any slang on this site. I can't agree with such attitude.
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We (native) English speakers who are even a little tech-savvy already know that "leecher" has become a commonly used term. The reason why OP made this thread and why so many people agree is because "leecher" is completely and utterly redundant. You keep saying "it's slang" as if that's a defense. It isn't, because this isn't about slang. "Leecher" isn't slang. It's just a malformed and unnecessary noun derived from the verb "leech", which already had the noun "leech". It's generally unambiguous which function a word that has the same verb and noun form is serving in a sentence.
Our point, again, is that "leech" has a history that is longer than ~15 years and serves the same purpose.
This has nothing to do with slang. It has everything to do with the crafting and use of a term that has absolutely no value.
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How can you say slang nothing to do with this? Most (if not all) slang words have exact equivalents in literary language. Why do you emphasize this word and not mention about other slang words? What make this word so different?
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Because this word isn't "slang", it's a malformed noun derived from a word that already had a noun form, and means the same thing as that other form.
"What makes this word so different?" It's the word that the thread is about, and as I said, it isn't slang. It isn't like bad meaning good, or cool meaning good, or hot meaning attractive, or mad as an intenfisier. It's unnecessary and redundant.
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Your basic framework is sound, but there's a few additional things that should be noted:
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the -er suffix is pretty notable in being added or dropped in common speech for such words without expectation of a change in meaning, with the -er ending typically being the 'correct' version. Take Moocher (1857), which later had the variant noun Mooch (1914), eg (He's a total mooch/She's a total moocher). While that particular example may just have been a shift in usage, such differences are often based in the fact that English pulls from so many other Germanic languages, each with their own expectations toward how a word should be written. Many Germanic languages utilize very similar variations of the same word, and sometimes more than one of those interpretations gets pulled in when incorporating a new word, creating dialectal differences.
Similarly, different ethnic or regional subcultures will interpret dialectal forms differently. As the most casual example, American v British English, in the use of us- ie, favor vs favour- which is about as minor a difference in spelling as leech/er, with similarly identical usage. In that sense, the internet use of leecher could be considered an online dialectal form of the word.
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The existence of moocher/freeloader and doctor/physician/etc already pretty much negate leech(er)'s linguistic distinctiveness, in both its usages.
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Leech actually was originally used for all online utilizations of such mannerisms. However, the application started to change by usage- piking, for example, is leeching (or rather, freeloading) in an MMO. Leechers are leeches in torrenting, specifically.
So no- leecher does- or rather, did- have distinct meaning, minor a nuance as it was.
However, with popularity and familiarity of the word increasing in casual internet speech (with many first encountering casual usage of leeching through torrenting, perhaps), it soon supplanted the original term for many of its other usages.
So the intent of this thread is actually somwhat off- the word's usage for torrenting is established, the question is if its applications to things like Steamgifts is similarly appropriate or not.
In other words, should there be a clear line where leecher and leech separate? Where should that line be? Those are useful considerations to make. Of course, you can argue that the distinct usage as it applies to torrenting is meaningless in value- but then, picking at one of the few clearly distinct usages of leeching as it differs from similar words, is actually counterproductive to the type of effort this thread is intended toward.
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Based on the overall change in spelling preference, one can assume this has become less a variation or redundant term, and more a social shift in the expectation of spelling. In that, such things happen naturally over time, and doesn't fall under the usual linguistic need for distinctive word meaning, as it is the word usage itself that is changing, not a new word being added in to supplant an old one.
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A linguistic enthusiast.
I'm not a prescriptivist myself, I just come down on the side of if something is redundant and adds nothing to language then you can decry its usage.
I would say its use in torrenting was incorrect at inception--I haven't seen anything to undermine the idea that people just didn't know that leech was an extant and suitable noun.
I generally agree with many of your points and hold your post as an example of how to construct a linguistic argument in favor of your position, though I don't think your statements well address my core criticism which is that for no reason an alternate spelling of the noun form of a word that already had a noun form came to be. I do support the idea that usage trumps rigid adherence to rules, however.
I do find your point about an online dialect to be interesting but it would be more persuasive if you characterized "leecher" as jargon, rather than "online dialect".
And as much as I am generally against prescriptivism (as without a governing body much of what is prescribed is without sound foundation), I am afraid of what online communication is doing to the written language. Even if one is a strict descriptivist, the problem that is emerging with the way people write out language online is that people like to use unintuitive and difficult to parse abbreviations and letter omission (I'm talking about text especially). Online communication seems to be under a strong influence of shorthand and jargonizing, but with minimal benefit to the average reader.
All that said, I still say "leecher" is redundant and vote nay on it. It's useless and I'm glad someone else said it.
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I haven't seen anything to undermine the idea that people just didn't know that leech was an extant and suitable noun.
Oh, I'm pretty sure it was unintentional, but I imagine it's not the first accidental word creation. :P
Jargon is exclusive to a specialized subset of individuals, and the internet has become pervasive enough among English-speaking regions that one can assume the internet no longer counts for specialized usage among English-speakers. Similarly, leecher has become commonplace among those even basically familiar with the internet.
My usage of dialect was intentional- in part for implication of the non-specialized nature of such utilizations, in part for immediate comparison to more traditional utilization of dialect for supporting the overall point (ie, that different locations may favor different usages of a word), and in part to indicate the redefinition that the internet has put on traditional dialectal formation, which was largely based in the communication barriers between different groups. These days the internet blends together, and often rapidly pushes forward, linguistic changes that may have previously remained more distinct or isolated.
Of course, I'm not really sure that distinction is one that can easily be argued either way, however, as lingo would probably be the most appropriate term of all, outside of the context I was specifically intending usage of dialect for. :)
I wasn't attempting to make a case for or against the usage of "leecher" either way; I just wanted to throw some extra considerations your way for your contemplation, given your seeming respect for such matters. :)
I think online communication has had massive benefits- localized misconceptions are more easily remedied, more information is easily accessible, access to individuals with language use outside of your local utilization is readily available, making expanding your vocabulary easier.. it's a wealth for the overall education of those with access to the internet.
..or, well, that's the theory. In implementation, as you noted, some pretty negative subcultures have formed. I don't understand that kind of approach at all, so I really don't have any basis to review it. I'm not sure why anyone'd deliberately want to make communication more challenging- but given how many people deliberately misconstrue things or refuse to expand their vocabulary, such things are pretty consistently bewildering to me.
Of course, past that, there's no doubt that for all the good the internet does, misconceptions seem to travel just as fast as clarifications- take how many people can't tell co-op [ie, team pve] and team pvp (or even basic pvp) apart, because the term has been misused as a general 'multiplayer' tag so often.
Unfortunately, unless society starts placing more of an emphasis on respecting proper writing and word usage, these sort of habits are likely to continue perpetuating, perhaps even were the internet to be removed from the equation.
Put another way, I think what you're describing is less a facet of the internet, and more the internet allowing preexisting bad behaviors to run free rein. :/
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This is why whitelists are bad. Once someone is on the whitelist, you can't put them on it again. There's no double- and triple-whitelist. But there should be.
I'ma induct you as the first member of my Double-Whitelist Hall of Fame. It exists only in my mind, like Zooey Deschanel's love for me. That will have to be enough for you.
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but Urban Dictionary is wrong:
It refers to the act of giving yet providing nothing of substance in return
um, it's the act of taking, yet providing nothing in return
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Clearly SG leeche(r)s
#WeTakeSoYouCanHaveGoodRatios #YouWouldntGiveThoseAwayIfYouValuedThem #WeAreGenerous #PraiseUs
got to UrbanDictionary before we looked at it. :P
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Thank you for pointing this out.
Thought I was the only one who noticed it.
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Superfluos complaint, is not like they're talking about actual leeches.
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it's the same language where "inflammable" means the same as "flammable", "extraordinary" does not mean "extra ordinary" and "will not" is abbreviated to "won't" instead of "willn't"
this is, in fact, how the British Empire became so powerful. we devised a language so convoluted that everyone was too confused to stop us from conquering them. however the flaw was that we ended up confusing ourselves to the point of losing much of the empire
the US have had moderate success in using the same tactic, though there's some debate over whether their declaration of war against the letter U is a part of that or if they just don't like U
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Whitelisted, for this and what I assume is your poem
Also, don't know if intended, but the description on your profile kind of cuts of at an interesting place...
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it cuts off at "then please..." for me
and if you mean White Horse Rider then yes, that is indeed my own work, and one of my personal favourites of them
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To be honest, I am among those who think American should be classified as its own language, as an offshoot of the English language. Like Afrikaans to Dutch.
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And wishlist, not wishlisted.
Actually I'd love if somebody would create a thread like this and corrected the errors he encountered many times.
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And greenlit not greenlighted :D
But just to clarify... You mean wishlist works as an adjective as well ? Just wondering because I assumed wishlist is the noun and wishlisted the adjective. For example: Today I won a game from my wishlist. = Today I won a wishlisted game.
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No, you're right.
If wishlist is a verb then the past tense of that verb is wishlisted. Same as blacklist.
It is perfectly reasonable for me to say, "I just wishlisted Fallout 4" instead of saying, "I just added Fallout 4 to my wish list."
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You know that we make the words. If it isn't, it's going to be.
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if there isn't a word for it, I agree with you. But if there is, why bother?
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Okay, but what is the word for it? If wish list is the noun, wishlist and wishlisted are the verbs, right?
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Wish-list uses the noun state of the list. List is also a verb. Therefore there can be a word like listed but not wishlisted.
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Ah, but this is English. What constitutes a word depends upon usage, not governing bodies.
"Wishlist" is used as a verb by many people, and importantly, one who hears or reads the term understands it in context and there is no other word that promotes the same idea.
I'm a big proponent of the verbization of nouns.
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I'm not a fan of it. It means trimming the language down to me.
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What constitutes a word depends upon usage, not governing bodies.
/thread :P
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Interesting. I think I'll stick with wishlisted then. Just sounds better to me :)
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It isn't part of formal language yet, but it's better than having to say, "added to my wish list" every time you want to describe the past tense of putting a game on your wish list. Look how many damn words it takes to say that something was put on a wish list.
An important part of taking a noun and using it as a verb is that people fully understand what it means without explanation or elaboration. Everyone knows what a wish list is and everyone knows what someone means when they say they "wishlisted" something. And it is a perfect neologism for our digital age where wish lists are a common feature of shopping sites.
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I think were on same page here.
I vaguely remember in the South Park episode where the boys want to change the official meaning of a certain word because it's not how the word is usually ment nowadays there is some sort of widely acknowledged authority on language they petition to but sadly I can't remember anymore who it was.
Anyway, while if find this kind of discussion on language fascinating I'll have to call it quits now. It's getting late over here ;)
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This is a cromulent discussion that embiggens us all.
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if we're gonna get super technical wishlist isn't a word either.. its "wish list" in which case "wish listed" would work. but neither are technically correct without the space.
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Let me get GabeN on the phone. :X
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if you goto webster dictionary and lookup 'wishlist' it will separate it within the results. if you lookup 'dog house' it will join them together within the results.
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i only meant "technically" more as "proper english" that just hasn't caught up yet or as HerBrokenHeart called it "traditional". but it's socially acceptable in modern times you're right.
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This is 100% correct traditionally but I find the term "wishlist" to be valid, even preferrable, and hope that lexicographers recognize it.
I compound wishlist into one word because it's the digital era and it's a fine verb when compounded.
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To use another example (although I already mentioned it): Has (to) greenlight a project been a word for a long time (for example in the movie industry) or has it only become more common due to Steam ?
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It's like google. I will google it instead of I will search for it on Google.
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Exactly. While it has not been a word for a very long time, to me to google something it's a completely legitimate word and I would be surprised if respectable dictionaries like the Oxford dictionaries have not already included it or are going to soon.
At least the Oxford Living Dictionaries already recognizes it as a word.
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I vaguely remember in some sitcom they are at Yahoo and the people there refuse to use the g-word and yahoo everything when they want to look something up :D
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I saw that. Don't remember the reference. Mighta been "Silicon Valley".
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Not that it really matters but I don't think that was it because I haven't watched "Silicon Valley" yet.
Maybe it was "Parks and Recreation" because I think Lesley's boyfriend Ben works for Google at some point and in that context they might have been at Yahooo headquarters.
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Well, like wish-list vs wishlist the hyphen to indicate concatenation of words is going extinct. I'd blame the Germans and their tendency to build longer words out of smaller ones like that, but I'm not sure if the theory is correct. The term Green-lighting is as old as traffic signals with lamps in them though, meaning "giving the go-ahead"
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Well, at least it sounds extremely plausible. Anglicisation is so omnipresent in the german language it would make sense something spills back beside Rucksack and Kindergarten.
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It's more popular nowadays with PC gamers because of Steam but it isn't a term that the average American should have a problem using in normal conversation, and it isn't something I've ever seen need an explanation.
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Soooo it's a list of wishes? I thought it was a list of games. ;)
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And if someone leeches more, then they are leecher!
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lol
but i really like googles definition... ^^
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