Is Apple Arcade a good offer?
Except Google got them beaten already in every aspect like price, content and working on phones people use. Also Apple is worse than IGN and EGS combined. :)
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-very ignorant about real numbers... thou- i think they're different.
example: Google makes his numbers selling and showing mobile ads, while Apple maybe not that much (not touched an iPhone since ages, also). and that's also why imo Apple could succeed at making numbers from a mobile-subscription service ...while Google could fail.
also, microtransactions and diamonds and all that kinda stuff shouldn't be part of a subscription... i mean
"i've just subscribed and now i have to buy diamonds? wth??"
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Google’s take on the app subscription model is a little different from Apple, which just last week launched Apple Arcade, its $4.99 games subscription service.
so, a week after?? even more convinced that Google one will fail, then :D (i mean, if one of them really has to succeed).
don't know if Apple will fund some of the games... that would be different. and clever, imo.
(btw, what said about "diamonds" refers to the subscription model, in general)
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More like Apple is going to fail because they are offering a cheap solution to a problem that no Apple buyer has ever had, lack of money. They want to pay a huge premium for everything starting from the phone already, so $5 subscription looks something that people with more sense than money will get, not for them.
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I'm by no means a fan of Apple. Never owned any of their products and have no intention to ever change that. But Apple Arcade is far superior in comparison. All these tons of innovative games, devs they convinced to do something for mobile. And that exclusive.
What offers Google in comparison? Well known games, mostly ports. Picking those few I'd be interested in is far cheaper than subscribing.
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You have an interesting definition of superior if it means less games and less interesting games. You're already saving years worth of subscription by not buying Apple. Apple fans would buy those couple exclusive games for 2x full price and tons of macropayments on top so they get nothing from this. Meanwhile sensible devs making good games are free to include theirs in Google pass for no extra effort and sell on every other platform out there as well.
So a dev can either have their game
1) only on Apple Arcade forgoing any sales of any kind anywhere and especially on Apple phones
2) on Google Play and even sell it full price for Apple fans and on other platforms
Apple needs to pay a ton out of their pocket to make up the difference while getting nothing in return, hard to see a strategy like that not failing.
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1) only on Apple Arcade forgoing any sales of any kind anywhere and especially on Apple phones
This already was true for many Apps, Apple always came first. The one big difference would be developers getting paid now for going Apple first? Somehow this sounds like a pretty much identical scenario for devs, just with more money for them. Tragic! :-p
I doubt that Apple plans to get rich by Apple Arcade and they certainly don't need it. Besides, it's pretty obvious that it is Apple's general strategy now to switch into content creation. Compared to Apple TV, Arcade will be little fish.
P.S.
None of your arguments is about why Google's service would have a greater appeal to me as a gamer. So Google offers more games, but when I check out the Play Pass library I can't find even one title for which I'd want to subscribe. Either I already own other versions, already bought them or I'm absolutely not interested.
But five out of six announced games for Apple Arcade got my attention. All of them new, unique and promising quality. Somehow that makes their service superior imho.
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No, the difference is between getting paid $5 plus nothing else ever and getting paid $50 from sales plus $500 from in-game payments plus $5 sales on other platforms. What made devs rich on Apple was the average Apple fan spending money with no sense on anything and everything that serves no purpose. $99 for a new color theme for the fart app? Shut up and take my money! This source of income for the devs will be fully removed if they join Arcade so Apple would have to pay devs $500 for every $5 paying user to make it up.
Yet you are paying for neither nor are you probably ever even going to buy the games as singles. So your idea of superiority matters very little when money is in question. I haven't heard of a single game on either that I would pay money for because they are mobile crap and real games are on PC, but objectively looking Google sounds far better.
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Why would you assume that they get only paid $5? Why is it impossible that Apple pays them additionally to what subscribers pay?
Not to mention that all your calculations ignore the pure mass of customers. It's one thing if 50k users buy your game and maybe 1k of them spends money for IAP. And it's something entirely different if you get paid for some million subscribers having access to your game. With little to no risks. Not to mention Apple being extra nice if you do so exclusively.
Besides, the same applies as always: It's up to the devs to decide which service or store they support. If being part of Apple Arcade is disadvantageous to them, you can bet that they'll stay far away from this service. Same applies to Apple, this service makes sense to them. You might not see why or you might not agree with it. But we simply don't know all the details in their calculations.
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Why do I assume what when that was my whole point? Apple having to pay the devs the huge difference between $500 and $5 because they lost all sales everywhere which is why it's just going to fail.
If you want a bigger mass, then you want to go Google Pass for twice the subscriptions and sell on Apple store for tons on top of that. Best of both worlds and huge profits. You're also forgetting that Arcade only works on Apple phones. People aren't going to spend the price of a mid-range gaming PC extra for a phone that they don't want just so that they can subscribe to couple games they wanted. Apple has what, 10% share of phones suitable for gaming? Vs 90% of which a huge majority are Android.
You are still confusing Apple and making sense, they just are not related. Only calculation Apple knows is adding a 0 to any price so it looks like a premium product purely based on the price. And that stopped working when their God died, he was the only one with strong enough powers of mass hypnosis to keep that up.
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your numbers make no sense.
The customer pays apple $5 per month, but that's not what apple pays the developer.
Likewise, the developes don't get "$50 from sales plus $500 from ingame payments plust $5 sales on other platforms"
Typically, developers get either a percentage of sales, plus a percentage of the in-game payments, or a lump sum payment from a publisher, or a combination thereof.
Presumably, Apple will either pay them a lump sum, or they'll pay a subscription fee, which may or may not be based on how many people actually play the game. But it certainly won't be a fraction of what they'd make otherwise.
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Number are obviously fully made up just to show the order of magnitude of possible income sources.
Apple is no publisher any more than Steam is, they take their 30% cut from stuff sold in their store. In this case you can lump up the publisher and developers as someone outside Apple that they have to pay the 70% to to have a game in their store, how they split it after Apple is meaningless.
How many times do I have to repeat this? I'm not talking about Apple paying dev/pub/anyone else $5 or $500. I'm talking about Apple having to put in the $495 difference out of their own pocket for the other party to not make a loss from agreeing to Arcade instead of going Google Pass, Apple store and every other platform freely. This difference is what will make it fail unless Apple just wants to pump money to giving free games to their customers.
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but the magnitude is completely wrong - because you're not looking at it the right way.
Apple's users are paying a subscription of $5 per month - to apple, for access to all the games. That's different than individual users paying $5 per game.
Let's say a game could sell 10,000 copies on steam at $5. That's a total revenue of $50,000. Steam would take $15,000, and the developer and publisher would split the remaining $35,000
With Apple, let's say Apple pays the developer 0.1%* of the subscription fee for a year to the developer. Now lets say a million people subscribe to Apple. That means Apple earns $5,000,000 per month, for 12 months. The developer is paid $5,000 per month, for 12 months. The developer ends up earning $60,000.
*no, Apple is not paying that much. In all likelihood Apple will negotiate a fixed monthly fee, possibly with a bonus structure based on use/popularity. The amount would vary by game, developer, etc. In the above example, perhaps they offered an upfront payment of $30,000 for the first yearyear, with up to $10,000 in bonuses for reaching certain milestones. Thereafter, the contract may call for payments of $5,000 per year to keep the game in the store. The risk is on Apple to get enough subscribers; if there aren't enough subscribers, Apple takes a loss, but if there are enough, then Apple makes a nice profit. Sort of how in the olden days stores had to gamble on how much inventory to purchase
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The user will be paying $5 per month to Apple and nothing more. Both devs and Apple will lose out on all income from sales of the game and in-game purchases. Average user spent $78 on apps last year, so that's only a $18 loss per year. But then you have the real source of huge income, in-game purchases as illustrated for example by https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicolecarpenter/2019/03/05/clash-royale-surpassed-2-5-billion-in-revenue-in-its-three-years-since-launch/
Let's assume that's a new mobile game that's coming as Arcade exclusive. With no exclusive Apple would make 30% so 750 million and devs the rest so 1750 million. To have it as an exclusive Apple would need to pay the 1750 million to the devs to not make a loss for it so it would only require 48.6 million users paying $5 for 3 years to make up for 1 game. Only after they pay for every big game they get as exclusives like that will they start making profit for themselves.
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- The user will be paying $5 per month to Apple and nothing more.
And nothing more? How much do you think that adds up to? You're saying the average person spent $78 on apps last year. $5 *12 = $60 , so that's $18 per year per user less - about a 25% savings for the customer. As for in-app, well, only 5.2% of users spend money on in-app purchases, and those people pay an average of $9.60 per month. (the average of all users is $0.50 per month).
So yeah, your one example rakes in tens or hundreds of millions per month, but those games are few and far between. That's like saying all movies bring in a billion dollars, when the vast majority don't break $25m.
Most indie games don't come anywhere near a million dollars. Most "successful" games don't come close to $100 million.
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So we'll get mediocre exclusives that wouldn't sell that much in any case, how exciting.
In addition, the report shows that iOS users spend nearly 2.5 times as much as Android users — $1.08 to $0.43 in monthly IAP per user, per app. Not only do they spend more, but iOS users are about 50% more likely to spend any money in apps than Android users.
That's $0.50 per every user, per every app they use. So multiply that with the number of apps first and you will get a real number we can compare to the $5 for all apps. But thanks for making my point that Apple users spend a lot more money. Arcade will also remove all whales that usually support any market economy so the average will drop even faster.
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I wouldn't call understanding the difference between per and per^2 a skill yet.
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So on your Quest to bashing Apple you... kind of defend microtransactions? That is your argument, right? Apple will fail because it's so much better to do in-app-purchases. I thought we all agree that those are bad and poison the gaming landscape. We should applaud every attempt to make money without them.
Also, devs like Dodge Roll (Exit the Gungeon) are not interested in microtransactions. So this potential loss you're talking about doesn't count for them. They also seem to be convinced that this is a good deal for them. Even more, they claim the game would not exist in this form without Apple Arcade. Feel free to read their statement. It's actually a good read.
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I'm not defending any transactions, merely saying that they are the source of real income in the mobile app business. So getting rid of them is bad for the business but good for the users because they will spend less money.
Others here have said that selling a game can only get you tens of thousands or so while the top grossing in-app purchasing games make tens of billions, quite hard to not notice the difference in magnitude.
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Apple fans would buy those couple exclusive games for 2x full price and tons of macropayments on top
You have a very stereotypical view of Apple users. All the Apple users I know don't fit your description. Just because someone bought an expensive phone, doesn't mean they don't care about money, or have so much of it that they can throw it away.
And the thing about micropayments - the fact that an Apple user made a thread about how he despises those and how appreciative he is of this new service that delivers games without them didn't give you a hint that maybe your view on this is slightly off? ;)
1) only on Apple Arcade forgoing any sales of any kind anywhere and especially on Apple phones
I have not yet looked up what exactly exclusivity means in the context of Apple Arcade. But it obviously does not mean you cannot release your game on any other platform, since Hot Lava released on PC and Apple Arcade simultaneously. My guess would be that those games are exclusive to Arcade and cannot be available in the App Store without subscription.
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Nope, a very realistic view. Just like the view that only rich people buy Ferraris or yachts. If someone spends lots of extra money and is getting nothing but a logo on the product in return, they very much are throwing that money away. So why would it stop there? These are facts proven by statistics over and over again and thus far Apple has only been proud of how much they get their users to spend.
PC is not a competing platform to Apple phones, Android is.
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Sorry, but claims that people throw money away or pay for nothing than a logo are your personal views, not facts.
I have good reasons and can very much justify why the iPhone is my preferred smartphone and why it's worth the money for me (despite being pricey, no doubt about that). I could start explaining all my reasons to you now, but I have a very strong feeling you wouldn't accept any of what I say anyway. So let's just skip that. This is not meant to be a Apple vs. Android flamewar thread. ;)
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besides that, his/her business sense makes no sense.
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Opinions shared by most people who understand tech like https://www.businessinsider.com/bill-gates-says-steve-jobs-was-wizard-who-cast-spells-2019-7?r=US&IR=T
If you're happy with it, that's all you should need without any acceptance from me. I've been making fun of Apple products since the early 90s so it would require them to start making actually good products for my opinion to change. :)
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Your acceptance? Really? Didn't think you would go that low. You must have gotten that right out of the trolls beginner's guide...
And you're not making fun of the product here, you are attacking its users. Big difference.
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WTF again? If I say that you can buy and use whatever makes you happy without any regard to if I accept that decision or not, that's trolling? So if I would do the opposite of trolling, I'd say that you need my acceptance to do anything or how does this work?
If I'm making fun of a product, how can I do that without at the same time making fun of the people who buy it? They are bundled together since there would be no product if people didn't buy it.
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Alright, forget that last part. It came of quite aggressive, as I understood it. I understood that you claim I would try to get acceptance from you. But maybe I overreacted or misunderstood.
Maybe the whole "making fun" thing is a bad idea, if it involves borderline insulting a certain group of people. You are basically saying that Apple users are rich idiots (or people who want to pretend to be rich, which would be even worse) who don't have any tech knowledge and throw away their money. That is not only inaccurate in many cases, it's a pretty insulting generalization. If this kind of behavior is necessary in order to make fun of the product, maybe don't make fun of it. Just criticise the product instead, if you have valid arguments. No problem.
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I still never said you need to rich to buy Apple products. I said you need to be rich to buy Ferraris or yachts. There is a huge difference between $1k for a phone that you can even pay in 36 monthly payments here so anyone can afford it and $100k for a means to travel around.
What's your opinion on buying premium bottled water? Almost everyone can afford to buy a bottle for $10 but still doing that makes you have more money than sense because you're essentially throwing it away. I'm sure the people buying them feel like they are getting their money's worth even when from a technical viewpoint is makes very little sense. So it's not about how big the price is, just how big it is compared to other similar products offering the same or better value.
You feel like you're getting your money's worth with Apple and I think it's silly because of technical points. I'm sorry if those points hurt your feelings, which is why I told you to just be happy with it and ignore the points that don't matter to you.
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You, sir, are a classic Apple anti-fan, with no sense of actual business, or knowledge, whatsoever. Saying people buy Ferraris for nothing but a logo is a stupid statement. The cheapest Ferraris are much superior than any other consumer's cars out there, in every way: functionality, performance, safety, durability, etc.
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Where did I say that exactly? I said anyone buying a Ferrari or a yacht is rich just like anyone buying Apple has more money than sense. Or are you arguing that lots of poor people buy Ferraris?
So your "business sense" tells you that it's very profitable to buy Apple products or WTF? Apple products are not Ferraris of any kind which seems to be very hard for people with no sense of technology to get because they only look at the price tag and ads.
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I told you before I'm not rich. Not even close. Being able to buy a car for hundreds of thousands of dollars is very different to buying a phone for a few hundred dollars more than another phone. In my company maybe half the people have an iPhone. None of them are rich.
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I never said you need to be rich to buy Apple products if anyone would bother to read and not argue against something I never said.
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You said they are either wealthy or want to appear wealhty. You presented both option quite negatively. You don't seem to allow the possibility that someone is aware of what he is buying and can justify his purchase.
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Wealthy != rich. A wealthy person buys the $10 bottle of water, a rich person buys the bottling plant to sell the water.
Yes, I don't allow such possibilities with products I would never use even if given for free. Every time I've had to use an Apple product I've simply hated the experience so it's also a learned thing over the decades. And a counter reaction to their marketing which fools people with no idea to imagine they are somehow technically superior.
Let's give one example, Retina display. Couple people with Apple products thought it's the best possible display ever. I looked it up and it was using a 4k display to show 1080p resolution by using 4 pixels to anti-alias 1 pixel to look smooth. By installing Windows on his MacBook one guy got actual 4k resolution and it was far superior in every way. Yet this gets used as an argument to justify spending more money on it. Sure it runs faster with 1080p graphics than real 4k and this also gets used as an argument, but you could just turn it down when speed is needed on Win, but OSX you can't change it.
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Yes, I don't allow such possibilities with products I would never use even if given for free. Every time I've had to use an Apple product I've simply hated the experience so it's also a learned thing over the decades.
Yeah well, and everytime I had to use my Android work phone i hated the experience. Following your standards I should now go around and make fun of Android devices and users? Because if I don't like it, that can only mean it's a garbage product, right?
And a counter reaction to their marketing which fools people with no idea to imagine they are somehow technically superior.
Marketing is always bullshit. That doesn't only go for Apple, but for all the other vendors as well. I mean, have you seen one of the recent Samsung keynotes? They say the same stuff, like their new phone is the best smartphone in the world and they revolutionize smartphones...
As far as the iPhone goes, I feel that people like you who obviously hate Apple with every bone in their body are a little ignorant when it comes to the technical quality of the device. You can criticise the price, sure, same like you can criticise the price of a RTX 2080ti compared to a cheaper card. The fps/$ ratio is definitely the worst on the 2080ti. Yet you can't deny that it's the most powerful card on the consumer market.
This is comparable to the iPhone. Yes, you pay a premium for it. But you don't just pay that for the logo, as people like you like to say. The processor is the fastest on the market. Just look at the benchmarks. It's faster than the Snapdragon 855. The camera is one of the best. Just read some reviews or watch some comparisons on Youtube. Not saying it's the best in every category. But it's definitely up there and in part exceeds Note 10+, Pixel 3 and others. The face detection hardware is excellent. It has really good stereo speakers (they're still small smartphone speakers, so they suck for music or anything serious, but that doesn't mean they are not really good in comparison to other devices). The display is the best I have seen so far. HDR content looks beautiful on it. I compared it to the newest OnePlus, the Galaxy S10 (or S10+, not sure) and other current smartphones. Even their owners said the iPhone's display looks better. 1200 nits is more than most TVs have. The list goes on and on.
And as a software developer I strongly feel that software is also valuable (which is a concept many people don't really share...) and therefore part of my justification to buy this device. I find iOS very well made and works beautifully with the hardware. You can argue that it's easier for them, since they don't have to support a large number of smartphones with all kinds of different hardware. Certainly true, but in the end it doesn't change the fact that I am more comfortable with iOS than Android.
The iPhone may not be the best in every aspect. For instance there are phones with better SlowMo video capture. With more RAM (and yes, it's baffling why a 1300$ phone does not have like 12GB, and if you open a lot of big games in short sequence you will notice that the phone has to swap memory). I also would prefer USB-C to Lightning. And I am sure there are other things I can't think of right now. But you really can't deny that the overall package you get is indeed premium tech, with many parts being the best of among the best on the market. And together with the in my opinion superior OS this is a package that I simply can't get anywhere else. Therefore it's worth the money for me personally. I am not fooled by marketing. I am not too dumb to understand the technical side of things. I made an informed decision. Even if you think that's impossible for some reason...
Let's give one example, Retina display. Couple people with Apple products thought it's the best possible display ever. I looked it up and it was using a 4k display to show 1080p resolution by using 4 pixels to anti-alias 1 pixel to look smooth. By installing Windows on his MacBook one guy got actual 4k resolution and it was far superior in every way. Yet this gets used as an argument to justify spending more money on it. Sure it runs faster with 1080p graphics than real 4k and this also gets used as an argument, but you could just turn it down when speed is needed on Win, but OSX you can't change it.
I am not interested in MacBoocs (or any Macs) in the slightest. But ok, do you have any source for that? I can't find any evidence that this is/was actually happening. Also as far as I know there has never been any MacBook with a 4k display. Are you talking about external monitors?
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Android is crap there is no argument there, but a little bit less crap than iOS because it allows you to actually do something without buying a $99 app or adapter for it. Last good mobile OS was Symbian.
Have you ever seen a Jobs keynote where he hypnotized people to believe 5yo Nokia tech was their magical new invention? That's far beyond just saying your current flagship is the best ever. Like FaceTime, magical new way to make video calls from Apple device on wifi to only another Apple device on wifi meanwhile every other brand had standard video calls over 3G for ages already.
I don't see any reason to criticize a 2080Ti, I bought an ASUS RoG Strix 1080Ti myself and it was actually good unlike Apple products. Asus has also always made good parts for me.
Just look at how many billions Apple is making in profit and check how much does it actually cost to make the $1.3k phone. Then tell me again that you're paying the premium price for something other than the logo.
https://www.cultofmac.com/579177/iphone-xs-max-production-cost-bill-materials-bom/
You're saying the latest iPhone is techically good, but I'm talking about their whole history of making horrible crap and just marketing it well so people still pay a premium price and are left imagining they got a good deal. I can never take seriously a company whose users got confused if their mouse had more than 1 button even if they finally managed to make 1 actually good quality product now that people believe they should pay $1.3k for it.
I'm arguing iOS is crap because it limits completely what you can do with it and uses cheap tricks like the Retina scam to make it appear better to people who don't understand the details. They do this wholly on purpose to make people buy tons of apps to do things the OS should already have, so even more profit.
Like I said, if you feel happy with it just be happy with it. You don't need or be able to convert me to your cult for that. The quality of a stamp sized screen matters very little to me when I can use 2x 4k displays on my PC. Or any of those other things, to me phones are tools and not toys like iPhones.
Maybe it was an iMac then or just connected to a TV or 1800p to 900p instead, can't remember the exact details since it was years ago, but the scam is quite obvious and it could be fixed by installing Windows where you can set the resolution and scaling yourself.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retina_display
When an Apple product has a Retina display, each user interface widget is doubled in width and height to compensate for the smaller pixels. Apple calls this mode HiDPI mode. In simple words, it was one logical pixel = four physical pixels at the very beginning.
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This "retina scam" you are talking about - well, I looked it up, and it turns out you're just wrong about it. I couldn't find any evidence that people are or were talking about it being scam or anything like that. HiDPI mode is just normal DPI scaling. This does not mean what you claimed. It doesn't trick you by using a lower resolution on your desktop and upscaling it. It just upscales UI elements, like it does on Windows as well. That does not mean other content like photos, videos, games or anything else get upscaled. If you connect a 4k display to your Mac, you get 4k. And if you choose to use HiDPI mode (because it is actually an option and can be deselected, if for whatever reason you prefer tiny controls) it just scales the UI like it's supposed to.
Seems to me you're so completely anti-Apple that you take every supposed story you can get and turn it into a scam in your mind. There have been scientific papers on behavior like this. We always prefer the story that supports what we would like to be true. And in some cases that includes exaggeration, lies or even altered memory. I have no doubt you are convinced of your story, even though you can't quite remember the details. But as I said, I cannot find any evidence of it. Instead I find that you're most likely talking about normal DPI scaling, and in your mind that somehow transformed to a resolution scam.
I don't see any reason to criticize a 2080Ti, I bought an ASUS RoG Strix 1080Ti myself and it was actually good unlike Apple products. Asus has also always made good parts for me.
Every Ti card has horrible fps/$ ratio. NVidia clearly takes advantage of the fact that AMD has no real high end cards and pumps up the prices to ridiculous amounts. The 1080Ti is a fast card, no doubt. But you're clearly paying a premium for NVidia's market position, the actual hardware is not worth its price at all. And looks what they did with the current generation. The 1080Ti was already extremely expensive, but the 2080Ti is just ridiculous. Don't tell me you think 1300$ is justified for what you get. It just doesn't make sense to buy a 1080Ti or even a 2080Ti, unless you want the best possible device for your needs no matter the cost. Hm wait, that reminds me of something...
I'm arguing iOS is crap because it limits completely what you can do with it and uses cheap tricks like the Retina scam to make it appear better to people who don't understand the details. They do this wholly on purpose to make people buy tons of apps to do things the OS should already have, so even more profit.
I am aware that iOS is more restrictive than Android in general. But how does that really matter in my daily life? I use the phone privately and professionally (I am a software developer), and I can't think of many things that I can't do. When I am outside the company with a customer, I need access to my company network via VPN and/or remote connection, I need to be able to give the same connection to my laptop, to maybe copy some files (which is easy since I have access to the shared folder on our server and on my work PC) or look up something in the source code. I need access to company e-mails, calendar and contacts. I can do all these things with my phone, and I honestly can't think of much right now that I can't do. The only compromise I make is that I have a compatible USB stick, since the phone has Lightning instead of USB. I'd prefer USB-C, no doubt. But I have the stick I need and it works well. So, the simple reality is that for the things I do the iPhone is not as restrictive as you might think. If it was, I probably would have a different phone. I even have an Android work phone (Pocophone), but I never use it.
Like I said, if you feel happy with it just be happy with it. You don't need or be able to convert me to your cult for that. [...] to me phones are tools and not toys like iPhones.
Cult. Toys. Well, I think I made clear that I can justify my decision and don't resort to cultish behavior. You on the other hand seem to do that, just on the other side of the line. You come across almost fanatical in your quest to bashing Apple devices and their users. ^^
The quality of a stamp sized screen matters very little to me when I can use 2x 4k displays on my PC. Or any of those other things,
Oh, it doesn't have to matter to you. Deciding what matters or not for one's personal use is different for everyone. But just because something is not important to you personally, that hardly devalues the quality of the device. A good display matters to me. And so far I have not seen a better one than with the iPhone 11 Pro. And that is the kind of quality that you simply don't get with a 300$ phone. Certain people like to say stuff like that. That the hardware is nothing special and you can get the same hardware for a quarter of the price, and that you only pay for the Apple logo. But the reality is that many of the components are among the best or even the best on the market. Just like your 1080Ti. Frankly, buying a 1080Ti and at the same time calling the iPhone an expensive, unnecessary toy is kind of hypocritical, wouldn't you say?
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Except you couldn't turn it off and it was used for every program you ran, efficiently wasting huge amounts of screen space to make it usable by blind people. You should have been arguing about it at the moment years ago when an avid Apple fan such as yourself was the one saying how Windows just works much better. Now it's as meaningless as Apple marketing terms.
What are FPS? I bought RX 580 at the same time too so was I missing something?
I still don't care one bit what you do or use in your personal life, it is completely irrelevant to me. You are free to use and do whatever without trying to convince me to join your cult, that is still quite impossible. Just be happy with it and done. If you want a toy and the toy makes you happy, that's all you need. Just as I'm happy making fun of the toys pretending to be actual tech tools.
The phone I had before was a Moto Z because it was about the only thing that had 1440p resolution. Even the XS Max has less than a couple years old phone. Yet people imagine it's somehow better than anything else.
How is it hypocritical of any kind? If I throw away money for something just because I can and not because I need to, I'm happily admitting it as such. You doing the same and then trying to deny it is the hypocrisy here.
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Except you couldn't turn it off and it was used for every program you ran, efficiently wasting huge amounts of screen space to make it usable by blind people.
Proof or it didn't happen. As I said, I tried to find evidence for your story. Couldn't find anything. Unless you provide proof I must assume that this is just some fairy tale. You probably just misunderstood how DPI scaling works and what it is applied to.
The phone I had before was a Moto Z because it was about the only thing that had 1440p resolution. Even the XS Max has less than a couple years old phone. Yet people imagine it's somehow better than anything else.
Alright, so you bought the phone because of the screen. Yet, just before you were saying The quality of a stamp sized screen matters very little to me when I can use 2x 4k displays on my PC. You are contradicting yourself. That is the hypocrisy here. As long as we are talking about the iPhone, screen quality is irrelevant. As soon as we talk about any other phone it suddenly matters again.
How is it hypocritical of any kind? If I throw away money for something just because I can and not because I need to, I'm happily admitting it as such. You doing the same and then trying to deny it is the hypocrisy here.
Well, you were accusing Apple users of having more money than sense earlier. And now that's exactly what you admit to. Then I guess you're not better than what you think the average Apple user is. ^^
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I literally don't care if you believe simple facts of that time or not. It wasn't my problem back then, it's not my problem now. I have full understanding how scaling works and I hate it, I could never use 200% scaling ever because that's like going back to a 1080p screen where most of the space is wasted by UI. I just happily use a PC with Windows where I can set the scaling to 100% and enjoy full 4k. To me it seems it's you that doesn't understand how horrible forced 200% scaling looks.
I'm not contradicting myself at all. Stop confusing things like resolution which means actual pixels with your Apple ads buzzwords. I also never said I needed the resolution for anything making it somehow important to me. I just said I bought it because it was the only thing that had it while far more importantly offering the possibility for a HW keyboard mod later. And it was only to point out that the $1.3k phone is already losing in specs to something years older. It was already year old or so when I bought it so I got a 800€ phone for 300€. That's how you increase actual value, not by spending 1k more.
I'm not accusing anyone of anything, I'm stating obvious facts. Just like anyone who spends $10 on a bottle of water has more money than sense, so does every Apple user. This fact doesn't change no matter how much you like it and feel like you got a good deal. I made an actually great deal by buying the 1080Ti, didn't even cost a thing to use it for almost 2 years. It also came with some standard adapters and cables, they weren't $99 each on top. And what makes me completely different from the Apple cultists, I didn't believe it was some unbelievably great value for the money, I just bought it to make all the GPU cultists cry who imagine they can't play anything without one and that FPS >>>>> any content in the game. And even if I'm an Asus fan, I broke tradition and bought Gigabyte mobo for the build because Asus at the time was having some problems with Ryzens. Apple fans will keep on buying Apple no matter what.
So just accept that you are wealthy enough to waste money on toys that make you feel better and stop trying to justify it with anything else, you will be much happier.
Also: https://www.google.com/search?q=apple+is+a+cult since you seem to imagine otherwise and think that it's only my opinion.
Edit: and how weak are your Google skills? Took like 10s to find https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/359798/how-do-i-disable-retina-mode-hidpi-on-macos-mojave-on-the-built-in-display-of-a
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He is just talking about UI scaling, as I said before. That link does not provide any new evidence to the discussion.
But let's stop here. We are running in circles. And you are just not making sense. What was I even thinking, talking to such a dedicated Apple-hater. I can present you all the evidence in the world, you will still think an iPhone has the same hardware as a 200$ phone. It's very obvious BS, but that doesn't matter to you. I also explained in detail how I use my phone for work, and you still call it a toy because you just like bashing it. Doesn't matter how often I tell you that the processor is actually the best on the market, or how good other components are. You will still believe a 200$ phone can deliver the same experience. So, honestly, it just doesn't make sense to continue talking to you about this. Would only make sense if you were willing to accept facts that contradict your belief. But you're obviously not. So, let's just stop here. I will.
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That's exactly what I've been talking as well, forced 200% scaling wasting huge amounts of screen space reducing a 4k display to a 1080p one. What's so hard to get about this? I have 4x 1080p windows tiled on my 4k, with 200% scaling there would hardly be space in any of them for more than the UI. I'm not talking about how a photo looks on it but actual usable space. But you imagine scaling is something totally different and then argue that I'm wrong when I show you the proof for the stupid Apple problem.
If you say let's stop, then you actually need to stop instead of just arguing more...
I'm making perfect sense if you just bother to read what is written. I never said $200 phones have same hardware, only pointed out that your premium flagship loses in some specs to phones years older. Yes it is obvious BS that you keep making up and trying to put in my mouth. You can explain all you want what you use your phone for, I'm not talking about you personally but every Apple user in general. Doesn't matter how much you have read the Apple ads, I still never said it's comparable to a $200 phone, I even provided you the information that your precious $1.3k parts are worth roughly $450. Yes it doesn't make sense to continue, which I've been trying to tell you several times already, but you wanted to go on and on just because your feelings got hurt because I don't like your toy as much as you do. Start providing facts first then instead of making up opinions for me.
I also told you several times already that them having 1 (ONE) actually decent quality product does not make up for the decades that they have been pushing inferior ones with the same marketing BS that you are so keen to repeat. They only started using premium parts when they increased the price far beyond other brands could ask for the same tech because of the cult following. This does not change the past or any of the other facts.
To me it seems like you're the one having doubts about your happiness as a cult member, otherwise you would be just happy with it and not felt accused or whatever the first moment someone disagrees with you. So instead of trying to convince me, which I also told several times is impossible, try to convince yourself to just be happy.
Let's hope this stop works better than the last.
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Ok, you obviously don't want to stop. Alright, I'm in the mood.
That's exactly what I've been talking as well, forced 200% scaling wasting huge amounts of screen space reducing a 4k display to a 1080p one. What's so hard to get about this?
No, that's not what you were talking about. Look at your original statement. You claimed Apple was "scamming" people by providing just a 1080p image and upscaling it to 4k. You didn't say anything about DPI scaling for UI elements. And the screen real estate you have in 4k with scaled UI is a lot bigger than with actual 1080p.
Also, let's be real. You can't compare your PC experience with 4k monitors (which I assume are 24" or better) with a MacBook. The MacBook is 15 or even 13 inches. Pretty sure it wouldn't make sense for almost anybody to use a 1:1 UI scaling on such a screen.
But why am I even talking about this. I don't care about Macs. At all. This is probably the one thing we agree on. We both prefer Windows. So even if there was a "scam" I don't see why I should even care. I guess I just don't like when people post falsehoods. Reminds me of Denuvo. I don't even like Denuvo. I wish it wouldn't exist. But when someone claims it destroys hardware, I correct him (and immediately get labeled Denuvo fanboy, just for correcting a false statement - that's how silly people act on the internet...).
But you imagine scaling is something totally different
When did I do that?
I never said $200 phones have same hardware
That was obviously an example. If your argument is that you didn't say exactly 200$ - well, I thought that was really obvious. You said the price is for the logo and nothing else. That is equivalent to saying it's worth than a X$ phone (X being significantly lower than the iPhone price).
just because your feelings got hurt
I accused you earlier of having troll like behavior. I took it back. Well, maybe I shouldn't have. ^^ You are constantly saying things like this. This is very much like your typical internet troll, trying to force out emotional reactions with insults instead of bringing proper arguments. Are you seriously not aware of how you talk to people?
I'm not talking about you personally but every Apple user in general.
If you're talking about every Apple user, that includes me, does it not?
To me it seems like you're the one having doubts about your happiness as a cult member, otherwise you would be just happy with it and not felt accused or whatever the first moment someone disagrees with you. So instead of trying to convince me, which I also told several times is impossible, try to convince yourself to just be happy.
Again with this troll-like talk... Once again, I am not part of a cult. If anything I feel like you are so dedicated to your quest again Apple that you are more of a cult member than me. I also don't try to convince you that the iPhone is great. I just feel compelled to correct your falsehoods. This has nothing to do with anyone's happyness. If you go on a forum and openly say BS, then people will correct you (as you know I was not the only one who criticised your posts, maybe you should think about that).
Alright, done for the day. Cya! :)
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I will never stop as long as the other side uses that as an excuse to dump a bunch of lies on me and then try to run away. Stop with truths and it will go much smoother.
That's exactly what I was talking about. The scam was that Retina was the best ever display in the ads you so love. But in reality Retina meant nothing more than FORCED 200% scaling you had no way to turn off back then. What part of this is so hard to get still? And really have you ever used a 4k screen, tiled 4 windows on it and then put scaling to 200%? Obviously not since you make such silly claims that it's the same space as with 100% scaling.
It didn't matter one bit if it was a MacBook, iMac, iPhone or whatever. The principle of marketing 200% forced scaling as the best possible display ever is a total scam. I provided you a recent problem someone had with the same thing as others 7 years ago. The crappy limited OS X still doesn't allow you to select it yourself without using 3rd party apps. They took a weakness built in so that it will run smoother and marketed is as a superior display, WTF is that if a not a clear scam?
You are talking about it because you seem so desperate to prove me wrong about some 5-10yo problem I even never had personally instead of spending 10s on Google to find hundreds that had the same problem back then and even in recent days.
So will you stop saying that and finally agree with me that it's far superior to be able to pick scaling yourself than to be forced to a huge number like 200%? If you still imagine that is the best ever since Apple ads said so, you keep on doing exactly that.
So your obvious examples can be complete BS. What part of paying $500 for a logo on a $800 phone makes it the whole price of $1.3k?
OK then, since you still seem to think being nice is trolling I will stop caring one bit about your feelings and keep on bashing full force. I've been trying to tell you to just be happy if you feel happy instead of wasting so much time and effort on trying to convince me to like what you like. That is still completely impossible.
The difference that you don't seem to get is that you're only ever talking about yourself. Sure the group of everyone includes you as well, but you aren't the defining factor for the whole group in any way or form unlike you seem to believe. I don't care one bit about you personally so you are completely irrelevant to my opinion formed over decades. You're the only one here that cares if you like the latest IPhone or not.
Sure you are not in a cult, that's exactly what a cult member would say. You seek to correct my semi-truths with your complete falsehoods is what you tried to say? If you go on Apple keynote and openly say BS, then people like you will rush in with their credit cards.
I told you right in the beginning that I've been making fun of Apple products since the early 90s and yet you thought I just need to be told over and over again how awesome the latest iPhone is to switch sides. If they have been making horrible crap for 25y+ and people like you have loved it because of Jobs keynotes told them to, whatever they have made in the last couple years will not change my opinion of the whole in the slightest.
Did you really imagine you would accomplish something? That I care if couple people on a random forum are cult members and repeat the complete BS from keynotes as the absolute truth? Meanwhile simple Google search shows that the rest of the world agrees wtih me.
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More like Apple is going to fail because they are offering a cheap solution to a problem that no Apple buyer has ever had, lack of money....
So, you're saying that anyone who owns an Apple product must necessarily be so wealthy that price is no longer a concern. Whether or not you intended it, such ignorant over-generalizations and patently false accusations come across as prejudiced and bigoted. If that was not your intention, then some editing is needed.
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No, they can also just want to appear that wealthy by overspending. The spending habits of Apple users are well documented over the years to far exceed any other platforms. These are simple facts, so prejudiced and bigoted, WTF now ...
Here's an educational comic for you: https://theoatmeal.com/comics/apple
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some people don't mind paying a premium for a premium product.
In some respects, Apple products are better than their competitors. Apple's goal has never been to make the cheapest product, they always made better products of course, "better" is sometimes objective, but sometimes a matter of opinion
Having used Android and iPhone, I think that iOS is a superior product to Android. For me it's not about the hardware (Samsung wins) but about the software
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I wouldn't mind either if the tech was premium, not just price tag and design.
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I believe the software is premium. In my experience, things just are that little bit smoother/faster/easier/convenient that I prefer iphones. I don't need the latest hardware, which is why I have an older model, but I think the software is superior
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It's only smooth because you can't do anything with it other than couple preselected things and many prefer being able to customize it much more at slight loss of speed. Not that it requires that much to be better than Android because all mobile OS since Symbian seems to be focused on having as little options as possible just like everything these days.
Just read about a journalist for a tech magazine who switched from OnePlus 5T to iPhone Xs Max and felt like it was going back to the dark middle ages where everything just works worse, so experiences vary.
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Techies who like to customize have always preferred android / dos. But, the 99% of the population who just want to do their handful of tasks as simply and efficiently as possible have always preferred iOS / Mac.
There is nothing I want to do on my phone that I can't do. It's like how 99% of Word users use only 1% of its functionality. I've know people who've made their entire career out of Excel, and not one of them claims to have mastered even half of its functions
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Yet Apple does not have 99% market share, more like 10%, mysterious if everyone prefers it. Simple is a right word, efficient not.
There is nothing I want to do on my Nokia 5.1 that I can't do either. And it costs about as much as one Apple cable adapter. So if you're only ever going on Facebook and reading emails like 99% of users, why pay for a premium priced phone at all when literally anything from last several years does it just as well?
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like google beats apple with everyhing else already either
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I didn't knew about Apple Arcade until now.
I unplugged more or less since Jobs' halo faded away.
So I just checked one news site.
You indicate that you pay 5$, but you should correct it to 5$ per month, your post was misleading for me on this point (even if you speak about subscription).
Also, you don't get just the exclusives, but the full app store game catalog, if I understood correctly.
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This obviously massively depends on the individual user. I voted 'no', because:
- I don't have any Apple devices
- I almost never play mobile games
- I have never made an in-game purchase
Likewise, the Google alternative fails the last 2 points for me, so I would say that was not a good offer either.
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Do we know if there are any exclusives to Apple Arcade, or would a similar service from Google be the exact same thing?
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They are starting to pay developers for timed exclusives for their Apple Arcade. The Exit the Dungeon (quasi-sequel to Enter the Gungeon) for example is going to be timed exlusive on AA and then it'll be available on android, PC and possibly Switch.
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Google has no exclusives which is exactly why they are going to get more and better games since devs are free to sell them elsewhere as well.
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Yeah, because that is exactly why Epic can't find enough developers going exclusive for their store. /s
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Does Epic forbid all kinds of in-game payments and only get $5/month from customers to get access to all of the games? I'd like to see them try that next.
Edit: and let's see when Fortnite goes on Arcade so that will be their only way to make any money. :P
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We talk about mobile gaming here. Rather cheap games but millions of customers. This worked better for Apple than for anyone else so far.
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Which is what they are trying to ruin here, not improve. Also Fortnite is a mobile game and you were the one starting the comparison with Epic to mobile.
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He used the comparison because you were saying google will get more and better games because they don't need to be exclusive and he brought up Epic because they are paying for exclusives and haven't had a problem getting quality games signed up for their store only.
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That comparison would be that Epic has more and better games than Steam because they pay a shitload for exclusives, which is quite obvious BS. Or that Epic sells more than Steam because of them. Unless you really think that is the case, the same applies to Apple exclusives. What Epic has a problem with is getting users to their store, not couple exclusives most people will just wait a year for. And they even work on the same PCs unlike Arcade which requires first buying overpriced Apple products.
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That is not what it would mean. You are saying that if people pay for exclusives they won't get good quality games. He says it hasn't been a problem for Epic. That means that paying for exclusives doesn't stop them from getting good quality games. The comparison doesn't mean Epic would have more games than Steam. It just saying that Epic has been able to get good quality exclusive games by paying for them and they still are.
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That is exactly what the comparison would mean.
Steam/Google has no exclusives and they have more games and even better ones.
Epic/Apple have some good exclusives and far fewer games.
It does not in any way or form mean that the exclusives can't be good. If someone makes the claim that Apple will get better games than Google because of the exclusives, they are also claiming that Epic has better games than Steam because of the same reason. You just need to stop thinking that not being the best game means the game is somehow bad. Or are your top 10 favorite games all Epic exclusives?
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No one ever said Epic or Apple will get better exclusives or better games than the competition. You also need to not put words in my mouth as I never said what I felt about it all. I play a lot of mediocre games that I have loved. One of my favorite games is Advent Rising which got shit on by a lot of critics. I also just recently really enjoyed Days Gone which considered mediocre to bad by a lot of critics. Some of my top 10 games never even made it to PC. I grew up a console gamer and I still own and will purchase future ones along with keeping my PC upgraded.
I hate that games are exclusive specially on PC. If Epic owned the games that were exclusive to their store like EA does with their games then it wouldn't be a problem. Do I like what Epic is doing? No, I don't but I do see what they are trying to do. They are trying to build a storefront to compete with the big dog. They are just going about it completely wrong. I have bought a couple games from the store and I definitely don't pass up the free games they give out each week. I'm pretty sure many others don't either and I bet you a lot of them don't care for what Epic is doing.
Your whole thing which is shown in your replies in this thread is to shit on something you don't like. You're close-minded and think the only thing that is good is what you like. I feel like you are one of those people who complains about everything and still spends money on the things you complain about. I was just trying to explain to you how the other person was using the comparison but you apparently don't understand it. Hope you have a good one because I'm done here.
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Google has no exclusives which is exactly why they are going to get more and better games since devs are free to sell them elsewhere as well.
This is what I said and people argued against it, so what did they mean other than Apple getting more and better games instead? That both get equal amounts of equal quality games? What words was I putting in your mouth? You were the one doing that to me by not understanding the logic of the argument and what opposing it means if anyone.
Yes I also bet that many are getting all the free games from Epic. But are they spending money there too is another question. Obviously some people are but are those numbers big enough outside the couple exclusives some can't wait a year for. Not surprisingly their biggest source of income isn't selling exclusives they paid millions for in their store, but microtransaction money from Fortnite which allowed them to start doing this in the first place.
Your whole thing seems to be not reading what was said and then arguing based on something totally different. Then you imagine others are close-minded and need to be explained how simple logic works when you obviously need to look in a mirror. Stop using feelings and start using logic, it will help greatly in arguments where logic is universal but your feelings are only inside your head.
What makes you imagine that this thread or Apple is my whole thing? Feelings, not logic.
What makes you imagine that I'm close-minded and only think things I like are good? Feelings, not logic.
What makes you imagine I complain about everything and then buy those things? Feelings, not logic.
What makes you think you can explain things you clearly don't understand yourself? Feelings, not logic.
So who was putting words or everything else into whose mouth again?
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I generally don't like subscription models, I'd rather just buy my games so I can keep them "forever". Also one thing I really don't like about their Arcade is that they're starting to offer timed exclusive deals to developers (thanks Epic). Good example of that is the quasi-sequel to Enter the Gungeon which will be timed exclusive on Apple Arcade before it launches to other platforms like Android, PC and maybe Switch.
I don't like them and I don't like what they're doing with Arcade, especially the exclusive deals.
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I totally agree about subscription models, and this is a subtle push toward making everything this way, just like Microsoft and Sony have said they're going to do next generation, and what Nintendo is already doing with their sad replacement for the Virtual Console.
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I don't like subscription models either, but they are more honest than the other stuff that is going on in today's gaming landscape.
Games that should be yours practically aren't. How many of "your" games are yours forever? The ones on Steam or any other online DRM aren't, because... online DRM! It might shut down. Ok, probably not too soon and the outcry would be huge. But who's to say Ubi, EA, Valve, Epic will exist in, say, 10 or 20 years?
The ones that depend on an online connection to not only the DRM, but to a game server (and many of today's singleplayer AAA games do), will be even shorter-lived. As soon as the publisher doesn't want to cover the costs anymore and the player base is small enough to make the outcry silent enough, they will shut it down. Happened to quite a few games already, they are just gone even though people paid money for them.
The ones on GOG: yes, as long as you have a computer and a compatible OS, you can play them forever. Looking at what MS is doing with each iteration of Windows, and looking at graphics drivers and the occasional physix and other middleware fuckups, I'm not too hopeful we'll play the current AAA games in 20 years easily though.
Great analysis on games-as-a-service and the longevity of games: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUAX0gnZ3Nw
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that's happened quite a few times already. Gametap went belly-up. GFWL stopped working. But the trend continues.
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That video is already in my favorites; I've been a big fan of Ross for quite some time! I don't necessarily know that subscription models are more honest, though; they're blasting you in the face with, "WOW! This is new and you love it! Look! Fortnite! Super Mario Bros.!" just hoping that you don't think about how they can yank that rug out from under you whenever they feel like it. This is the same battle we've been fighting with many companies - mostly Nintendo - about preserving video game history, and this is their atomic bomb. Sure, there are really sleazy practices in video games these days - even DLC is at least partially a scam, selling you parts of an unfinished game - but subscription models are an end to game ownership; forget about preservation. And I agree that ownership as a whole is gradually waning, which is why UNPOPULAR OPINION WARNING I'm not that big a fan of Steam. The unfortunate truth, though, is that Steam is so ubiquitous that if you're all in on PC, you're stuck. I do buy everything that I can from GOG, itch, and even Humble when they have a game DRM-free.
The original post represents the problem as a whole, too: a platform makes mobile games that are just less garbage, and we fall to our knees praising one good thing they did - when the bad should never have been done or been accepted; we've just gotten complacent - while ignoring the myriad problems they're still perpetuating. Things have gotten so bad that just a baby step in the right direction is cause for high praise; it's like being whipped only 9 times instead of 10 and being super happy about it. But hey, we need that new Star Wars game, and they'll NEVER make another if we don't buy it right now, so let's all hop on board the surprise mechanics train and wait for the next crop of rotting produce to be foisted upon us. For all the barking we do, we sure don't have much bite, and that's why things keep getting worse. You teach people how to treat you, and as a whole, we sure did.
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Very true and at the same time funny way to put it, being whipped only 9 times instead of 10... :D
Another great quote from somewhere on the internet that Ross is quoting in that video:
"Anytime someone says the solution to a problem is to 'vote with your wallet', I know that cause is doomed."
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Y'all should try microsoft arcade !!! its free it plays on portable device etc.... https://arcade.makecode.com/
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the 5€ subscription means little to me, the big con is convincing people to buy an inferior device :D
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I wish I could switch back to android, because if we are talking about the games, they (Apple) are censoring everything to the ground even if there is no need to do so.
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No Android. No deal.
Seriously though, exclusive games, good for the I-people. At least they'll be able to play games nobody else plays for once, instead of not being able to play games everybody else can play.
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In all fairness, Apple had a few phenomenal exclusives over the years. Just, not that many.
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I honestly think it didn't work out because you had to use the Amazon App Store rather than Google Play, and the Amazon App Store was strictly worse - some apps wouldn't run, others were way behind Google Play in terms of updates, and automatic updates were sometimes glitchy.
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I just updated to iOS 13 last night, signed up for the free trial of Apple Arcade, and downloaded a few games to try out. I haven't had enough time to say whether it's worth the price tag or whether I'll pay for it, but here are some initial observations, thoughts, and things people should be aware of:
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Free Trial: There's a free one-month trial, so if you have an Apple device, it's probably worth trying it out. Note that there is one caveat to this. Normally the way free trials of subscriptions work in the App Store, if you cancel the trial early, you get to continue using the service for the full advertised length of the free trial (1 month, 2 weeks, whatever). However, if you cancel your Apple Arcade trial as I was about to do last night to avoid being charged, Apple warns you that your subscription will immediately end. That means if you don't want to automatically start paying after the trial, you'll need to remember to cancel before the trial ends.
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Family Sharing: If you use family sharing (not me), you can use one $4.99 subscription for up to 6 people in your family, which seems like a really good deal.
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No Ads or Microtransactions: iOS games haven't really used ads for a while, but "free" games with microtransactions are everywhere in the App Store. And those games are typically designed so that you can't easily progress without paying, so I'm happy to an alternative business model for mobile games (although obviously there's also the model of paying once to buy a game). Microtransactions are unlikely to go away, though, because I've read that they're the biggest money-maker on the App Store.
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Quality: Based on reviews I've read and my very brief, initial impressions, Apple seems to have (at least for now) done a good job of curating quality games. Time will tell whether they maintain that quality.
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Controller Support: Most of the games I've tried so far support a controller, which is great because in my experience touch controls are often terrible for more complex games. Apple has also added official support for XBOX and PS4 controllers to all of its devices. That means you no longer need a special MFi controller (like I already have) to use with an iPhone or iPad.
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Cross (Apple) Platform: I think (please correct me if I'm wrong) that all games on Arcade are required to be developed for iOS, iPadOS, tvOS, and macOS. That potentially means more games being developed for Mac, and games typically restricted to Mac being made available on mobile devices.
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Apple Arcade "Exclusive" is really semi-exclusive: Here's what Apple Arcade Exclusive actually means:
- These games cannot appear on Android, iOS’s biggest rival
- They cannot be a part of some other subscription service, such as Xbox Game Pass or something
But that leaves a lot of grey area, meaning that these games can in fact appear on PS4, Xbox, Switch or PC.
However, because these are new games mostly made by indie devs, these devs are effectively being paid to prioritize development for Apple's platforms over others. For example, here's what the Oceanhorn 2 site says about this:
We're a small team and we can only work on one thing at a time. Right now, and for the foreseeable future, we’re focusing on Apple Arcade. That said, we're considering all options, so please subscribe to our newsletter to be the first to know when we have news.
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Exclusive may also mean subscription only: When I was browsing the App Store last night, it looked like games on Apple Arcade could only be accessed via an Arcade subscription. You couldn't just pay to buy any of those games. This might be because I had already subscribed to the trial, so please correct me if I'm wrong.
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Using Apple Arcade on Mac means you might not be able to play some other Mac games: Apple Arcade on Mac requires macOS Catalina, which is dropping support for all 32-bit apps. Two important things to know about this even if you aren't going to use Apple Arcade:
- You may have to jump through some hoops to update the Mac Steam client to 64-bit.
- Even if Steam is 64-bit, there's no guarantee that older, 32-bit games will be updated to 64-bit. Any games that stay 32-bit won't work on Catalina.
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That's cool that the devices support the XB1 and PS4 controllers via bluetooth now.
Did you find any must play games in the Apple Arcade? I took a quick look, and didn't see anything terribly exciting for someone who has a gaming PC and/or a console.
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Oceanhorn 2 is well-reviewed and looks good, but I haven't played it yet.
EarthNight also looks good, but it's coming to Switch, PS4, and Steam later this year.
I've played Sayonara Wild Hearts, and it's good (if played with a controller), but it also launched on Switch and PS4.
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You're right, games being free of micro-transactions and loot boxes is something to be praised - sad that what was once standard is now worthy of praise, but worth praising anyway.
As far as the Apple Arcade itself, I have no interest in it. Partly because I have an Android phone, partly because I've come to realize I just don't like mobile games or using a phone as a gaming device, but mostly because I don't like the subscription model in general. Call me old fashioned, but I like buying games and having them available to play whenever I want, rather than paying a monthly fee to rent them.
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Mobile gaming made such a bad rep for itself, I think in general this may be a good step towards making playing on mobile more accepted. Lots of PC games can easily run on mobiles without any loss of control (basically any turn-based game. More good mobile games are good for the industry IMO.
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Most of my favorite mobile games were ports from consoles - FF Tactics, Ghost Trick, etc. Most made for mobile games are plagued by grind, micro-transactions, and / or lack of depth.
I think the only made for mobile games I really enjoyed were The Room, Monument Valley, and Pocket League Story, and even I know that the latter is a ridiculous time waster and I don't understand it's appeal.
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Most of my favorite mobile games were ports from consoles
And consoles too, of course! I got stuck in PC, I was unsure if there were console exclusives ported to mobiles ( I still need to get into consoles and even emulation, it's a huge bite to chew)
If minimalist, 1-3h long puzzles that gradually add in more stuffs are your thing then I recommend you to check out Master on Coke Games' selection. They work pretty well on PC, but they benefit soo much from having a touchscreen. They are pretty often discounted in the play store to 0.33$, sometimes even to free.
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For those trying out Apple Arcade right now, what games have you tried so far? What's your impression of those games?
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I tried a few games so far, and even though I didn't like all of them I have to say that the overall quality is pretty good.
Sayonara is beautiful and plays well. I definitely want to beat this one.
Where Cards Fall is an excellent puzzle game. If you like games like Monument Valley, you will probably enjoy WCF a lot (even though Monument Valley is the better game, as far as I can tell right now).
Oceanhorn 2 is obviously super-high graphical fidelity and controls very well, but I am not sure i want to dive into a game that will take like 10 hours or more. I don't play on the phone at home, just when I am outside. I don't think games like this work well if I only play a few minutes at a time for the most part.
Pinball Wizard is pretty cool, but I didn't play too much of it yet.
Skate City is garbage (for me at least). It's competently made, but I got bored after 5 minutes.
The new Shantae game is really good, and I can see myself playing all the way through it.
Spidersaurs is sort of a Contra clone. Good mechanics, good humor. Will definitely play more of it.
Super Impossible Road is alright, but not that spectacular.
Rayman Mini is great. Beautifully made with perfect controls. Will play a lot more of this.
Hot Lava is pretty nice, but I have to play more to see if it's still interesting after some time.
That new Frogger game is actually not bad. Not quite my style. But well made, and I can see why many people will have fun with it.
Exit The Gungeon is great, as expected.
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Thanks for the recs!
In regards to Oceanhorn 2, I know what you mean about not being able to play for a few minutes. I've been using the Provenance emulator to play old games on my iPhone, and I recently started playing Majora's Mask for the first time. I quickly realized, though, that I couldn't play it in short spurts, so I switched to playing it at home on my Hackintosh connected to my TV.
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Yeah, exactly that. For me it wasn't Majora's Mask, but Ocarina of Time (without emulator, as there is a port on iOS). I actually managed to play it for like 10 hours in total, over the course of maybe 2 months. But yeah, I would play for maybe 20 minutes, then continue days later and at that time I had forgotten where I wanted to go, where I'd already been and so on. So it wasn't optimal. I know there are people who play mobile games at home. But I have my PC at home, so I don't really see the point.
I still haven't finished Ocarina of Time to this day, which is a shame. It being one of the big classics and all (and I really enjoyed it). Maybe I'll give it another go at some point. But that will be on PC then. ;)
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If you don't mind paying double the price for just the brand name I guess Apple is the way to go.
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Well, it's expensive, no doubt about that. But it's also premium hardware. With the fastest CPU, lots of graphical horsepower, one of the best if not the best displays and so on. You're not just paying for the logo. The hardware is actually excellent. And for me personally it's also about the software. I like the OS way better than Android (I have a work phone with Android), and that alone is worth something to me. I guess an iPhone is a little bit like a RTX 2080TI. It may not be as cost effective as a 2070 in terms of fps per dollar, but it's definitely a more powerful card. Everyone has to decide for themselves if that extra power is worth it. But if you do you're paying for an upgrade and not just for the "TI" in the name. ;)
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I guess it depends who you ask. xD
I don't know. Someone could offer to trade me a free latest iphone and I would pass for my cheaper samsung. I am not one of those people on my phone constantly though, so I imagine others see value where I don't.
I really dislike the enclosed systems across their devices, the heavy handed method to discourage user modifications to their device, and overall their imo over-hyped brand.
I mean ever since the iPod I've kinda rolled my eyes with Apple. They convinced the general public it was worth it to spend 80 bucks for a 15 dollar MP3 player, and people lapped it up. Now they have lines outside the store, eh, just makes me kinda cringe but I have friends who go out there and wait...
But hey, if it makes you all happy then it's worth it obviously. =)
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Amazon's android app store had full "paid" versions (including IAP) for free, with no subscription fee. They paid devs based on how long users actually played the games. There were thousands of games (and non-games). Yeah, most of them sucked, but not all of them. They ran that program for a few years but I think it is finally closed. I still have like 2000+ "paid" games on my Amazon account, though.
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i don't like to play on a mobile device for more than a couple minutes. Prefer steam big screen gaming.
also I am pissed at apple. have lots of apple products. my apple tv 4k died, just out of warranty and their solution is pay full price. No repair. Such bull $#!%!
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Yeah, repairs at Apple are great as long as you are still in warranty, but as soon as it's expired it's a pain in the ass and often not worth it. The prices for iPhone repairs are like half the original cost, which is already expensive. And in other cases like MacBooks it can even get way higher (like 90% of the original price or something like that), to the point that it doesn't make sense at all. And the fact that they constantly try to prevent 3rd parties from repairing their devices doesn't make it any better...
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Apple decided to replace my Apple TV for free because they wasted my time. So not mad at Apple anymore.
Still won't sign up for apple arcade. But I am curious about Apple TV+.
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if you are an apple only user.
if you want to play on mobile/mac.
if you feel ok to have a subscription service and not own any of the content.
then yeah, thats a good service. can improve the quality of mobile games market.
too bad its a premium price like other apple products
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$5 a month is not a premium price. Plus with the $5 sub up to 6 people can use it on family sharing.
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For mobile games it feels premium to me, but I didn't account for the family thing.
Will have to see what Xbox and Google Stadia offer, while Sony's PSnow is a gold mine it come with a cost.
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Ya PSNow I feel is overpriced. Luckily for me, I own a PS3 & 4 along with my PC so I get the benefits of that. I would love for PSNow to become something better for PC though. Maybe a little cheaper monthly price and be able to install the game on your PC and possibly take advantage of your PC specs. It's probably far-reaching but we never now. I feel the console era will blend together with PC later on and just become things like subs or storefronts and clients for each company. It would suck to have too many clients though.
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Nice. Now I have to pay for free game without microtransactions.
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The problem is that, like everything Apple creates, it's completely proprietary to purchasing their [grossly overpriced] hardware. So it's a non-starter right there for me. Props to them for deciding to forgo the nasty microtransaction and pay-to-win model, but other than that there is exactly zero interest in it for me. If they had 10,000 games, it still wouldn't convince me to buy their hardware to play it. I already have more than I can play on PC and XBox in the next 20 years (and both XBox Live Gold and Gamepass Ultimate are better values in terms of game subscription than Apple Arcade...in fact, it's not even close).
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More and more segmentation of entertainment and more and more subscriptions is going to hit a breaking point. I'm not sure what the result is....
Exclusives SUCK
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both apple and google do, i just subscribed for a whole year in the new google play pass subscription service for 1.99$/mo the first year which was a great deal for someone like me who have very limited free time to be at home :D
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Most of you have probably heard/read the news about Apple's new subscription service Apple Arcade. You pay 4.99$ per month (which is surprisingly low for Apple) and get a growing list of high-quality exclusive games (currently 71). All the news outlets wrote about it. But I feel what is barely talked about is the fact that all these games are free of in-app-purchases (microtransactions) and lootboxes/gambling.
In a world where so many mobile games rely on a free-to-play model with microtransactions and many PC games have taken that exact same path (best recent example would be NBA 2K20), it is honestly refreshing to see something like that. Microtransactions inevitably lead to changes in game design to get the players to pay money, we all know that. You could argue that because of that they are objectively worse than traditional games, since if they alter what originally during the development process was thought to be the optimal design, any changes can only lead to equal or worse design.
So, I know that many people have a problem with Apple products (and in some cases I absolutely agree, like for instance the price). But in this case I think we should applaud them for delivering a service that completely eliminates all those shady mechanics that have invaded most of the gaming landscape over the last years. It's about the games themselves again, as it should always be. In Apple Arcade you won't find abominations like Dungeon Keeper Mobile. You won't buy any diamonds, emeralds, gold or lootboxes for absurd amounts of money. Those games don't try to trick you into paying money, they just try to be good games. And I really think this deserves some praise. I am always suspicious when it comes to subscription models. But this just looks right to me.
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