Should devs revoke fraudulently adquired keys?
"but i never had a problem there, been buying from years"
"thats because you bought from someone shady, I always bought directly from G2A, noob"
He
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I am not advocating piracy? Also already? I have literally never advocated it. What are you hinting at?
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"If you actually can't afford a game full price you're better off pirating it till it goes for sale ..."
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Than buying from G2A. Yeah. It's a less worse option, at least you are not actively causing the dev any losses.
I don't know how that is advocating piracy...
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it doesnt matter why its a better option, saying you should pirate it over buying from a 3rd party, is still advocating it. for wrong or right.
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I'm just saying it's the lesser of two evils. And it objectively is.
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Matter of opinion, lets say you buy a key from g2a, that was purchased cheap, but legitimately. The dev has earned his money, no chargeback occurs, the reseller buys more. Everyones happy. Or you pirate it, no one makes any money. Only the pirate is happy.
I guess what I'm saying is, not every seller on g2a/kinguin is using stolen payment methods.
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Let's talk Rimworld. Suppose I buy a key on their site, I sell the Steam license and I play the DRM free version. I've duplicated my license for my personal gain. That's pretty similar to counterfeit products.
Also I do not approve of hoarding stuff when price is low just to upsell it down the line.
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Well yes, your example is shady, but not expressly forbidden so far as I know. As far as buying low, selling high, thats capitalism friend.
I gave away my telltale key for walking dead 2 after activating the steam key. The way I see it, I was provided keys for 2 platforms, no one said I couldnt use both. They are mine to use, sell, giveaway as I please.
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I'm pretty sure you don't own the game and you cannot resell it as it's just some kind of exploitation license or something (IANAL)
I know that's Capitalism, I take isssue with that ideology as a whole.
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I'm sure that license is there so you don't go making copies of that game and selling said extra copies illegally while keeping a copy of the game. No one would have even batted an eye at you if you went out and purchased a physical retail copy with box and etc from a physical store and then went and resold it for more to make a profit, keeping nothing from that game for yourself other than the money. How, since we're now into a digital age, is it suddenly wrong to do so?
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None of those legitimate sites allow you to resell the key you bought.
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I guess you never read the fine print.... there's usually a prohibition against giving away keys, and typically a software user license is limited to one user, regardless of the numbrer of platforms they make it available on
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G2A keys are frequently purchased by stolen credit cards or by tricking the dev into giving the seller keys by saying they will be for a giveaway. They don't get their money, because the credit cards will likely be charged back.
It's better to pirate the game than buy from grey market re-sellers because you're not supporting a business that is fully aware of how the keys are being acquired.
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Shhhh, don't advocate piracy. It's better to buy it from shady sellers who might be money laundering for all we know and hit the developers with chargeback fees than download a torrent wherever. After all that gives you the game on your steam account and that's what counts. right?
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For the record, I'm not anti piracy, I used to pirate games regularly, and still pirate movies on occasion. But nothing I've ever pirated did I pirate with the intention of 'getting one over on the' dev/movie studio etc. They were things I wasnt going to spend money on to begin with, I was never a lost sale. Occasionally I would end up buying something I had pirated down the road, because of how much I had ended up enjoying it.
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If you were never going to spend money on it, then why partake? DO you sneak into the theater, or dine & dash?
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No, meaning, I would wait until I could watch it free on tv or play it at a friends house type thing. Its not that I had no interest, just that I didnt have enough to justify wasting the money. Mind you we are talking when I was much younger and didnt have disposable income to speak of.
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There is nothing, I repeat, NOTHING, inherently wrong with key resellers. The keys have been purchased the dev's got their money, if someone can later turn a profit, good on them. It is NO DIFFERENT than buying steam gift copies on sale, then trading them for double your cost down the road. Now, that isnt to say you won't encounter people buying keys with dodgy cards. But theres a risk with steam gifts too as they can also be revoked. The ammount of hate resellers gets boggles me.
Disclaimer Ive never used either site mentioned, but I would if they had something I wanted.
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addendum, the solution for the chargebacks is for devs to keep track of what keys went to what cards, and cancel those keys on chargeback. Not much can be done about the fees associated with the chargebacks. But at least it pulls the fraud copy out of circulation.
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That's what these devs in particular are doing. Cancelling all the fraudulently adquired copies of their game. However they already took the damage in chargeback fees (Which seem to be outrageusly high)
The issue I take with resellers, even "legit" ones, is that they are giving a place for this kind of scams to exist. If no legit seller went to any of these sites they would be filled only with high risk keys and the sites wouldn't thrive as they are doing now.
Not to mention that I already expressed my disagreement with hoarding stuff and resellling it down the line.
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The argument that legit resellers set up the ability for scammers to exist seems wishy washy at best. The same could be said that dev's that sell their keys on any medium other than steam, also enable the scammers. I get that its an issue, and I support the dev's in taking whatever steps they feel are needed to alleviate the problem, I just dont think the blame can placed squarely on sites like g2a/kinguin. People are shitty, no matter what the situation, there will always be someone trying to get one over on someone else.
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It's clear you don't understand how most resellers work.
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Key resellers are the same as game traders except game traders try to fuck you over.
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Nope. From my experience with both you have zero contact with the seller thats the price. Dont like it to bad. But with trading, I have seen a lot of traders try to make you pay more for a game and try to jyp you out of your stuff for what they know is garbage,
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^this
But one thing is real, some keys resellers buy their game keys with stolen CCs, fucking up the devs...
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+1 It's not the resellers as a whole that are the problem. It is that tiny group that is not using legit methods that is the problem.
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" The keys have been purchased the dev's got their money"
tell that to the indie devs who had tons of keys sold on G2A when they were told they would be given away, or the devs that got hit with tons of chargebacks because the keys were bought with stolen credit cards.
Stop supporting these evil sites.
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I dont support the douchnozzles using stolen cards to buy keys, but they are not the site. They are users of the site, and a minority of the sellers are scammers.
As for the dev's giving keys away for reviews or giveaways etc. Well, no pity from me. Let them run their own gleam giveaway and put it on reddit. Or not try to buy reviews with free copies. Let their reviews speak for themselves from paying customers with absolutely no bias in the matter.
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They lie to the dev telling them the keys would be given away then sell them on G2A.
G2A also supports the fraud by selling insurance. They are fully aware that many keys are being revoked becuase they were aquired by scamming the dev or using stolen credit cards.
If they didn't support it they would be stopping it, not selling insurance.
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the insurance thing irks me a little. but I imagine if they didnt have it, people would just claim their keys were no good, or got revoked and take advantage of the sites guaranteed happy warranty or whatever they call it. because.... people are shitbags, and like ive said elsewhere in this thread, theres always someone looking to get one over on someone else.
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They are exactly the site. Believing it's about anything else is just naive and foolish. Those sites do absolutely nothing to prevent scammers, in fact they encourage them.
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Should steamgifts and cg be held responsible for all (and theres been a LOT) the fake giveaways that have been created here, where someone wins but never gets their gift? Are we all scammers because some people make prank giveaways? cmon.
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This website is different. People aren't selling keys here. They're buying games then giving them away. If you win a giveaway and it was fake you're not losing money.
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Doesn't explain jack what exactly has gotten exploited nor why it could be done to begin with.
Usually its the payment methods offered that aren't safe - enjoy your CC/PP charge-backs.
Promotions and things alike must be thought out better, so they can't be exploited.
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inb4 "I bought 10k M games from G2A and I didn't have any problem" comments. Congrats, you are still a piece of shit for supporting these sites.
People who trade games are shit
People who give games away for free are shit
People who buy games on sale are shit
PEOPLE WHO DONT BUY 50 COPIES OF THE SAME FUCKING GAME ARE SHIT
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The strawman sale is on the next aisle. The one labeled "Gardening Appliances"
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Thnx fam. I just have to make sure not to give any to my friends since you cant do what you want with your stuff or youre shit
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Drink some water. I think the bowl of salt made you dehydrated.
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Read the comments, seems to me that maybe some either didn't read the TinyBuild article in relation to g2a (1, 2, 3)nor know the existence of anti-tamper DRM Denuvo.
What I'm getting at? simple: you can't just pirate almost anything anymore unless it doesn't use Denuvo, even then, those who don't use it, deserve to be purchased cuz maybe they aren't that expensive and actually decent games, nothing AAA, bug prices (Dark Souls III Deluxe for about 80 cents, Mexican Steam store).
Second, Why would those not-shady-at-all sites would require an extra insurance, shield, whatever (that you have to pay extra, mind you) if they say they are completely safe and legit to use? hmm let's leave it at that.
TL;DR: you cannot pirate anymore 9.5 out of 10 times. If you cannot afford now then simply wait until decent sales, nice discounts or maybe even ask a friend to familyshare that game.
I've wanting to play Ori and the Blind Forest since pretty much every live typing person in here (even bots I may add XD) are talking how great it is! yet I refuse to pay full price because I know it went on sale for 5 bucks, like 3 times already, so I simply won't pay more than that but NEITHER will pirate it despite having that option and wanting to play it that much. I still value the work of developers and support them whenever I can. Heck, it's pretty much common knowledge many people buy the games they used to play back in the day, when they finally get a steady income and opportunity presents (good offers) itself there isn't really any excuse not to, anymore.
You'll do what you will, but we have this great community here for a reason, if someone takes the time to inform the rest, to make suggestions and maybe even take blindfolds out of others then it's worth it. Want to keep using shady sites? go ahead it's your money and you take the risk, but don't complain when something bad happens and we see an increase of these sites, because you know, when something "works" everyone wants their cut!
Do it responsibly,
Happy gaming :)
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In the trades section in this site there are hundreds of people reselling their leftovers for Paypal or for marketable objects. This is by no means different from what's happening in gray market platforms. Obviously I'm not talking about those resellers who do launder money or who resell illegitimate keys but for the mass of resellers who're getting rid of their bundle leftovers for a dollar or so. All this moralizing discourse about how inherently bad is gray market while capitalist economy is partly a gray economy itself and we all take part in it, whether we want it or not, is at least hypocritical.
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In the trades section in this site there are hundreds of people reselling their leftovers for Paypal or for marketable objects. This is by no means different from what's happening in gray market platforms.
You… never tried to sell something at the grey market, did you? Otherwise you'd knew by experience that by no means they are "not different".
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I did and the only difference is the rip-off by G2A fees. But in terms of between users exchange the principle is exactly the same: you sell unwanted keys and you get back money. We can't complain about reselling while most of gamers do get involved in one way or another in trading/reselling for profit practices.
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If you did, then you also know that the user experience is: "Here, we organised the key trading, now pay double amount than you would do on a forum, so we can advertise our service more and make more people pay double amounts. (By the way, did we mention that we don't pay taxes? Oops.)"
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I do understand your concerns but every single company that provide a platform take their share for it. Uber or Airbnb do exactly the same. I replied for the same issue a bit more detailed to MrCastiglia two comments below...
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It's different as it's a pure C2C trade, whilst if you buy something from G2A or wherever you are enabling them profiting from this morally grey transactions and they are facilitating large scale CC fraud.
I do not see how all this discussion is, in any way, hypocritical. I don't engage in capitalist practices out of my free will, but our surroundings and upbringing condition ourselves to take part into that, not to mention that a strikingly low number of alternatives exist to indulging into what's basicall the whole world economic system.
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Actually there are two different things when it comes to gray market. The first is whether it's legitimate in general to resell your keys and the second one is if there's legitimate for G2A and co. to take their share. Regarding the first issue, there's no difference whether you sell your key via SG, privately to a friend or via G2A as long as you do resell your key (therefore the "moral" issue).
As for the second, G2A is just one of the many companies that take profit from new age capitalism. Practically G2A does the same job as Uber, AirBNB or even Ebay and Paypal. They do provide a platform to use and connect individuals and they take their shitty cut for this. In my books all of them (or at least Uber, G2A or Airbnb) are the same ugly face of contemporary capitalism - though I do consider ugly capitalism itself. And for the most part they are simply the evolution of traditional industries in the age of numerisation, that's why for instance AMD have Kinguin as official partners.
That's why I consider the general discourse about G2A as hypocritical as long as it doesn't touch the core issue which is the evolution of contemporary economy and it's "natural" adaptation towards profit generation. And even more when it comes from big publishers who dominate the gaming industry selling constantly overpriced goods and then whine why people end up buying second hand keys.
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"Practically G2A does the same job as Uber, AirBNB or even Ebay and Paypal. They do provide a platform to use and connect individuals and they take their shitty cut for this."
What's shitty about it? You don't think Uber, AirBNB and others, should get paid for the services they provide?
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They should, indeed, though I think that it's getting complicated with the current turn of economy - it's practically a bubble.
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G2A is shady and people getting burnt at it. What's new? Brainwashed masses will still flock their for "cheap games" and rage against the publishers when their keys get revoked. If they want to support money laundering, let them. You cannot cure stupid, despite popular belief.
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"Stop doing something I don't agree with!"
"Stop disagreeing with me!"
What exactly is so bad with this? It's no different then when humble bundle/steam revoked keys involving stolen credit cards. Dev's shouldn't care how someone got their game as long as it's the game AS YOU INTENDED, ergo don't pirate it unless you have to (but even then that's an entitled method of thinking) you need to be able to get updates out to the people. It's a pride and joy and as long as the devs are getting paid who cares in the end?
This is coming from someone who works on video games as a cheap freelancer.
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Thing is devs are not getting paid? And not only that but these practices make them face losses derivated from the chargeback fees.
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They are getting paid though. It's all bought in some place like steam, humble or straight from the dev. You make it sound that a dev gets no money for every key sold on G2A and that they get chargebacks for every key. It's only a tiny amount that do this...
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But they get no money for every key sold on g2a. Every transaction on g2a grants the dev no money at all, and credit card fraud is a massive problem. Haven't you seen the number of developers who have had to close their stores or have taken a stance against thise practices? If it was the odd key this would not happen, but it is much more prevalent than that.
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The devs don't get paid, resellers source very very cheap retail keys from impoverish countries, publishers make little to no money for these games, in fact they quite often just write them off as anti-piracy expsenses.
Resellers then bulk buy them, and sell them back to 1st would gamers at ridiculous markups.
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+1 for this. g2a has nothing to do with this talk as much as traders, resellers, bundle sites like humble bundle or bundle stars, ebay, amazon, steam and many others ways to (re)sell things. this is about credit card fraud and has NOTHING to do with g2a or kinguin or any other (re)seller. if dev can't handle chargebacks from fraudsters, simply don't sell using stores that chargeback. I bet if Steam chargeback developers they all will be like "it is steam fault".
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Are you not aware of the fuckton of measures Steam has had to put to limit the amount of money they bleed because of chargebacks and credit card fraud in general?
This situation only exists (at this level) because of sites like g2a facilitating the sales of fraudulently adquired keys.
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nope. this situation only exists because fraudsters exists. nothing more than that.
if you link fraudsters with anything else besides themselves, you are justifying and defending their acts.
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But if they had no place to sell those keys, they wouldn't be sold. Can't you see that g2a is an accomplice of all this, making it easy to launder money on their store?
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read your own topic.
your focus is (re)sellers, not fraudsters. it is like to say "if you don't want to get robbed, simply don't have money".
these keys will be sell foward without g2a or kinguin (or whatever site you think of that "make this easy").
again, there's no link at all between fraudsters act and g2a or kingin.
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THEY ARE FACILITATING IT.
They are giving them the opportunity and the means to do that, they are doing nothing to stop it, they are ACTIVELY PROFITING from the sales of fraudulently adquired keys.
There's a fucking link there, I'm pretty sure.
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no. resellers are doing their business. fraudsters are the one who is choosing that way.
there's no facilitation at all because g2a or kinguin don't promote themselves selling stolen digital goods.
again, you are justifying fraudster acts to blame resellers, traders or whatever else.
this should be clear in your life: it is ok resell, but it is not ok to fraud.
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G2A/kinguin are pretty good about shutting down fraud, the mass majority of keys sold on these reselling sites are certainly not fraudulent. Purchased on sale/bundled even pricing errors or on other stores like russia/mexico sure.
On fresh accounts most of your sales are blocked/banned until you submit proof of purchase.
If two accounts try to sell the same key, both accounts are banned/locked until proof is shown.
If a key is revoked, they're going to replace or refund it.. taking money from the reseller.
That whole tinybuild thing is bs, they sold like 10,000 keys from their site to people using fraudulent cards then those keys were resold..
That's on tinybuild's fraud detection not anybody else.
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"THEY ARE FACILITATING IT."
G2A perhaps is, if it's true that they don't vet their sellers. And the fact that their customer protection is behind a paywall, doesn't help their case. But that's the fault of G2A, not resellers as a whole, or the practice of reselling. If you've bought a game legitimately, you own it, so you're free to do with it whatever you'd like, including reselling it.
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I take it you don't know how chargebacks work. Unless you paid cash, it can be charged back. all credit cards, paypal,ACH, bank transfers, etc. are subject to chargeback. Pray tell how a developer can sell games only accepting cash or check (which can also be cancelled and reversed)
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That's exactly how chargeback works, but not how store works, specially Steam and other stores that usually have "wallet service". Some stores keep the chargeback for themselves which I believe Steam does. Some others don't.
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that's a fair point.
I mean, it kinda limits the dev significantly, but, it is a valid point. No direct sales, no third party sales, only through Steam (and the other bulk retailers that charge 30% for the "service"). Sounds reasonable
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But then we have the problem of the oligopoly on the digital market by not preventing the devs to sell their games directly. Not to mention that intermediators only increase the cost of the final product.
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G2A is a piece of shit website and that's why Cryaotic stopped sponsoring them during his streams! Cuz they sell credit card information and are black market shit who steals keys. They are utter trash and you are a part of the problem, if you support them. ^~^
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G2A doesnt steal or Sell stolen keys lol, users do.
You can go to their website and start your own virtual shop.
Its the same as selling gifts on Trading groups/forums but for their website currency.
Traders often buy keys from G2A/Kinguin to resell them, do you complain? Ofc not, you dont know where the key is from.
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It is not the same. If you buy through g2a you are engagin into their storefront, thus some basic consumer/seller protection measures should be taken. Which they are not, not to mention that they blatantly profit from these sales.
The difference would be me meeting someone on a dark alley at 5 AM looking for weed and getting stabbed, and going to a weed dispensary and getting stabbed there.
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Drug dealers really love to stab you it seems, they must be related to sadisticchicken :P
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I imagine it as a scene from a movie:
(two friends getting high)
"You know, I really like smoking weed but I had to stop because of health reasons, all that bleeding wasn't good for me."
"Bleeding? Da fuck are you talking about? Weed doesn't make you bleed."
"No, it wasn't the weed itself. I just kept getting stabbed by every god damned dealer, like what the heck man? Why?!"
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Like salt, in a shaker on the table, you decide. that should be a real option for some series, I doubt that it'd be too hard to implement nowadays with multi track audio on digital tv
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Handling stolen goods, facility to theft, facilitating the sale of stolen items, fraud, I could go on all day, turning a blind eye doesn't make you innocent you know? lol
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Don't use shady af sites in the first place. Problem solved
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Not that it really matters but I think you got that whole sponsorship thing wrong. Twitchers normally don't sponsor anything.
I think what you ment is that he stopped promoting them in exchange for a sponsorship ;)
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Nah. When he found out how shady they were, he stopped sponsoring them after his contract ran out.
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Ugh, G2A. Why do people keep using that site? Is pretty much common knowledge how shady that site is.
If you can't buy a game just wait for a discount, it will eventually happen, just have a little patience.
Just to be clear, I'm not against small traders that buy cheap and sell hi, that's just business. I'm against these sites that know that a large chunk of the keys didn't came from trustable sources and don't care about it. If you wanna do a profit do it legally, don't scam the devs and your buyers for a quick buck, that's a crime, and being an asshole.
About the piracy discussion going on here, I'm not gonna criticize anyone for doing it. It would be hypocritical, I no longer do it but I did pirate my fair share of games during the 2000's. I did an effort to buy on steam most of the games I didn't pay for back them, I'm not done yet but I'm close.
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Sitting here sipping my tea, thinking the article is well written and being wowed by how salty some of the comments are
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Sadly, many people here seem to be missing the point by arguing that there exists a parity between G2A (and other non legitimate / non verifiable - this qualifier is crucial - key resellers of their ilk) and your common user to user key trading (or hell, even legitimate vendors like Amazon, etc.). That arbitrage is common (but not necessarily in the case of the latter) to both practices only helps to confound the matter further for the already confused. (Seriously, look up arbitrage if you aren't familiar with the term).
G2A is a platform that enables theft, fraud, causes additional costs to the developer through chargebacks, and by extension, can be utilised as a tool for money laundering. Not to mention that the rights holders for the content don't even get paid in the case of chargebacks. G2A even profits from the very theft that they enable by charging you, the consumer for basic consumer protections that are considered a given in any other industry. The harm this can cause to devs and the ecosystem as a whole is evident.
Trading between peers (for profit or not) or reselling through legitimate means is a different story altogether, developers are paid for the initial purchase, and arbitrage is exploited in accordance with common market procedures. (The merits of or objections to which are subject for a different discussion).
If you cannot fathom that there is a categorical difference between these two, you are either ignorant of or have failed to grasp the underlying issues of the debate.
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Debate? I thought we were shouting our opinions to each other. jk kinda maybe not, who knows at this point
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I'm so tired of the classic bullshit 'You should not buy from G2A, the dev doesn't get any revenue'. The key was released by the publisher and previously sold a 'legitimate' 3rd party seller, which means the developer has already got his cut for the key being re-sold on G2A. Oh, it's not ethical? Yes, it isn't, but that's how business normally works. Advising someone to pirate over buying a re-sold game is not the lesser of the two evils by any means.
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It is, if you buy from g2a you're likely buying a stolen key, which not only does not grant the dev any revenue at all but is also actively hurting them because of the chargeback fees.
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Using the word 'likely' is far from reality. No, it's not likely, it's a possibility. I completely agree that turning a blind eye on keys purchased fraudulently is bad, but you also have to consider the vast majority of the keys being re-sold are genuine keys which were bought for lower and sold for higher. In my honest opinion, if developers weren't so greedy in general (Activision is the perfect example) there probably wouldn't be a need for a grey market. But considering in the vast majority of sales some very old games barely go below 50% (greedy f***s), people will look for alternative places to purchases such games. G2A won't disappear unless the gaming industry all together makes a change rather than sitting and complaining 24/7 about how they're not making enough profit.
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Haven't you seen the amount of devs speaking up against G2A? Would they do it if this was a non-issue? Where's your data on the majority of keys are genuine (Have in mind that you cannot resell bundle keys, or that digital licenses cannot be resold) because according a sensible criteria I'd guess close to zero keys are being legally sold there.
And developers being "greedy" or not is their choice. You are not entitled to games, games are a luxury not a basic need, you (nor anyone for that matter) does not need games to survive. Developers are free to price their games however they want.
And this is not about AAA companies, they have the cashflow and assests to deal with credit card fraud. This is about the small guy, the indie dev, who's facing thousands of dollars in chargeback fees. It's not about making a profit, it's about fucking breaking even.
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You know what the solution to all of that would be? To sell on Steam exclusively. This prevents large bulks of keys being bought illegally and re-sold, as the only way would be to purchase them from the steam store. This would mostly prevent fraud as Valve's fraud system is probably (I'm making an assumption, don't quote me on that) far better than of 3rd party sellers (GMG, Bundlestars, etc.)
Yes, that's right. I'm not entitled to their game, it is not a basic need. It's a luxury, but similarly to how cars can be bought brand new from the company, dealers or private sellers, so are keys either available on the company's website, Steam or other 3rd party sellers.
If developers won't to avoid dealing with charge backs, avoiding selling their games on basically every other 'legitimate' seller might help with that.
When I say genuine, I'm referring to keys purchased legally be it in bundles or else. Considering I spent my money on the product, legally it's my property and if I choose to re-sell it it's my choice. Following your idea, trading should be sanctioned by law as people are re-selling bundle purchases.
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Generally releasing incomplete games for extremely high prices (not referring to small developers releasing games in EA to raise funds, I think that's absolutely fine). A company I'm specifically referring to would have to be Warner Bros with their release of Batman AK. A broken game released in order to make large profit, fortunately for us it was badly timed for the company right after Steam refunds, hence why people were able to get their money back. (which also pushed the developer to actually fix the game, which wasn't the case of Assassin’s Creed Unity for a very long time. From what I know, it's still somewhat broken to this day).
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Quote" inb4 "I bought 10k M games from G2A and I didn't have any problem" comments. Congrats, you are still a piece of shit for supporting these sites. "
what a great keyboard warrior gratulation blacklisted
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Nuuuu, sowwy I cwossed you with my mean, mean wowds. What can I do fow you to fowgive me? D:
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nothing a bully stay a bully allways if not someone would hurt you with real arguments. Make sure you stay allways in your safespacecircle.
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I'll toss aside you not understanding sarcasm, but that was pretty funny.
But how on earth are you invoking a safe space, when you are the one that fucking got offended because I called some pieces of shit pieces of shit. The fucking irony mate, the fucking irony.´ Same consistency as a sand skyscraper.
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so its now sarcasm that you bully Poeps over the Internet only because they dont share the same opinion like you? With safespacecircle i mean behind your keyboard thats the place you are a big men with your mouth. ;p
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Nuuuu, sowwy I cwossed you with my mean, mean wowds. What can I do fow you to fowgive me? D:
Tell me how on earth that is NOT sarcams. And you seem to have a pretty loose definition of bullying, but well. if you wanna dismiss my perfectly valid points and all that just because "I'm a bully" go ahead and do so.
I'm a big man with a big mouth everywhere I go, not just here. It's called being consequent
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im sure you running arround and tell everyone that he is a "piece of shit" because they have a other Opinion then you. And i should believe you that story? You should use the time you need to bully poeple over the Internet to solve the problems you have obvious in your real life.
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IMO Steam keys should be provided only after the chargeback window is over, but this changes a lot depending on payment method.
Bitcoin? that's from 10 minutes to about an hour depending on how much you're willing to trust the blockchain.
Wire transfer? As soon as the payment clears, assuming you can tank the transfer fees.
Credit cards? about 6 months. Sorry.
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Interesting aside: the game looks like it took its assets from Prison Architect...
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Some of the people that was hired with the kickstarter money to work on this game also worked on some Introversion games, including Prison Architect, which would explain the similar look.
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Ah, ok. I guess that makes sense. Thanks for the info.
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Introversion said a long time ago they're OK with it. It's still weird to look at, but that's the way it is.
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Good to know. I was going to be a lil bent out of shape about it, but if Introversion is ok with it, so be it. As long as it's the same artist and nobody is getting ripped off, it's all good. :)
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So what all the fuss is about? If devs care so much why don't they make no-DRM game instead? I mean, look at CD project RED (aka Polaks, devs of the Witcher games): those are DRM free games that sell good. And for me personally it works! They were right all along: I paid for Witcher 3 and I hate to pirate it even when it is o easy to do! DRM wont protect game, DRM only cause croubles for people. If the player don't want to pay for the game DRM rarely make him do so. And on the contrary for people who legitimately bought a game with nasty DRM, DRM that will make them regret buying it, and they most likely will avoid purchasing in the future.
P.S. sorry 4 bad English, I'm non-English speaker myself, and too drunk at the moment to correct any mistakes.
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The problem is not about DRM. The problem is that their are big business out there who earn a lot of money by profiting from stolen keys. The best thing is of course if you by the game on steam or GOG but if you don't have the money to do so it's better for the game developers if you pirate the game than going to sites like g2a or Kinguin and potentially buying stolen games.
More information about that from an developer: http://www.fortressofdoors.com/g2a-piracy-and-the-four-currencies/
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Not sure how they are related, but they (Ludeon Studios) do sell DRM-free copies.
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Have been pirating about 90% of all games that I played for 3 years now and will be pirating in further. As not everybody was so lucky to be born in first world countires. I just cannot afford buying new games in country where I live, and I'm not alone with this kind of problem... But I should say that I'd rather be buying games legit if games are cheaper or in case of better economic condition in my country.
And as for G2A, indeed, this web-site is shady in general, like a roulette, You pay less and risk... Maybe someone is trying to raise his adrenaline level using G2A :)
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Never used g2a I only ever buy from steam itself maybe that makes me a moron but its not like I buy a lot just bits when I can. There are so many games I'd love to play but I refuse to pirate stuff now but I used to, even played Diablo 2 online because I pirated it but now it's just not something I would do. What people do with their cash is none of my business but surely using a grey market you know the risks and accept them?.
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Buying from Steam and bundles makes the most sense. Thinking it's moronic to not buy from the black market makes you the moron, unless of course your purpose is to actively harm the devs by causing losses. People usually pirate as kids when their allowance isn't enough to buy everything they want, then move to buying as adults. And if you're too poor to afford buying, just spend some time trading on Steam to get lots of free games every sale, that's what I do.
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https://ludeon.com/blog/2016/07/steam-key-giving-stopped-for-new-buyers/
Remember kids, stay away from sites like G2A or Kinguin. If you actually can't afford a game full price you're better off pirating it till it goes for sale than buying from these sites where the devs won't not only get any revenue at all but also are being hit by chargeback fees.
inb4 "I bought 10k M games from G2A and I didn't have any problem" comments. Congrats, you are still a piece of shit for supporting these sites.
EDIT: Another link (courtesy of Movac) saying why pirating a game is a less damagin option than buying from G2A or similar places. http://www.fortressofdoors.com/g2a-piracy-and-the-four-currencies/
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