Signed! The only acceptable way to get Fortix is to win it on SG, and if you win it, you must give at least one copy back to the community. Bundle list will destroy this fundamental rule of life :'(
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Look I honestly am not that passionate about it, but please don't call this petition "reason". If you were listening to reason then you also wouldn't include several other bundled games on the list (my current go to example is skyward collapse, $5 game in a $5.80 bundle).
I know it has meme status therefore a special place in people's minds here, and if you want to exclude it based on those grounds then sure, it's not gonna hurt me any. But at least call a spade a spade.
To me, I'd think the meme would much be better served by adding to a $0 contributer value category. Such that no one ever gets value for giving it away, ensuring it's only given away for the satisfaction of it, making it the one truly pure giveaway.
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The way bundled games are handled was never really fair. The only way to make it fair would probably be to completely replace the whole system, and requests to reform the system have been turned down in the past. (I'm not trying to revive those arguments.)
In that regard, it doesn't really matter whether SteamGifts decides to arbitrarily certain games like Fortix. At least it is a $1 game.
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Your $0 contrib idea sounds perfect. I'd totally still give it away.
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BUNDLE IT. The fun part about Fortix was that it was decent and cheap and a fun thing to giveaway and win. Now that it will be totally commoditized, the fun and challenge of winning it will be gone. Time to find a new game to idolize in ridiculous fashion.
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I think that, the most important reason to keep fortix off bundle list, is because it is only 1 USD.
Let's say most of the case the non bundle game giving out on steamgift, it was some where between 50-75% sale off. Which if fortix got sale off, it should be around 0.25 USD, which is still reasonable for anyone using as a normal gifting and contribution value.
a 20 USD CV coming from a steam title usually at 75% sale off. Reaching 20 USD CV using Fortix require 20 USD pure. While normal way only 75% of that ammount. Even with Fortix in a bundle, it is pretty much the same how normal steam title sale off.
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Okay, time to bundle Dead Island Riptide, guys. Sorry! You heard Soto928. It's in a bundle, it must be on the list. I don't know why there is even a discussion.
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Well, how many games would have to end up in the bundle before the per game price made Fortix more than 90% off? It can stay off the bundled list and I think that would be completely in line with the current way of doing things.
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Then you better remove a lot of games from the list while you're at it. There are plenty of bundles that never get to that 95% cutoff point that Shobo talks about, and yet all of the IR games get added to the bundle list.
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I approve of the idea that at least some games be taken off the bundle list because they were not heavily discounted or it has been a long time since they were in a bundle.
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Why? It's still a $1 game, people already only gain a small amount of CV from it as it is
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No, the reason for the bundle list is to prevent CV abuse. In this case, it's not possible to abuse it with Fortix.
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Same for plenty of other bundle games. Especially if you use the logical exceptions that CHTonRage and others are using.
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Actually your statement isn't correct. Technically anyone who buys that bundle even for a dollar is getting MORE than just Fortix for a dollar. So the value of Fortix is actually less. if there are 4 games at the 1 dollar level it would mean Fortix has a .25cent value. So abuse is possible, because the buyer is also getting the other games to do with as they please even if it isn't for a cv value here. Personally I don't really care if it has cv or not, but a majority of ppls value based reasoning here is very flawed.
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The point is you still can't get more than $1.19 in CV on Steamgifts from that $1 bundle if Fortix doesn't get bundled. (Unless you gave a whole lot of non-bundled stuff, but in that case any bundle would give you more anyway.)
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You could use the same argument for most bundled games though. For example, in the current bundle: if you just leave Towers Wars unbundled, it would only be 87.5% off, which would not be on the bundle list if sold at that price in the Steam store.
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Sorry bunny. I only posted it in your chat (cause I know lot of members use SG) and Sgifts chat. I should of stuck around to chat (or take the flack if it was a no no)
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Not a biggy, just the 'hit and run' aspect of it gets to me since I deal with that often. :P
For the topic...it's sad that SG has come down to being about CV. Fortix has a special place in the history, but all people are concerned about is with whether or not people can get a few extra pennies credit. Oh my, $0.50 closer to that $1,000,000 contributor giveaway for Skyrim. How ever could such abuse be tolerated? >_>
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Because people in power never break their own rules.
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You have to bundle it... otherwise you completely ruin the bundle list even further. What's the point if you can just vote to keep games off the list? In that case, I vote for most of the BTA and Indie Royale games to be removed.
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Uhhh, shouldn't you be giving away games from the goodness of your heart rather than for CV?
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Honestly who is going to moan over $1 of missed CV. Seriously, people don't give away Fortix just for $1 CV....
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If you leave this off the bundle list, you have to remove a lot of other games as well. Just because Fortix is something special to the steamgifts community does not mean that it is exempt from the rules.
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Perhaps Delta and other people should give away gifts out of the goodness of their hearts instead of for CV.
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What? Seriously, you have no argument for keeping it off the list other than "it's special". That's not a good reason.
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I got a few arguments, but I've been keeping them stored. You forced me to bring them out.
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Skyrim isn't a commonly given away on SG but "Thanks for Skyrim" is a running gag on the forum and giveaways; Bad Rats and Secrets are also claimed to be the essential giveaways to win but rarely do you see giveaways for those two games. Fortix is the only game I used to regularly see being given away. People would make a fuss over winning it, usually by creating a new thread on this forum stating that they won a copy and by giving away a copy of Fortix themselves to continue this "tradition".
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Sorry, I disagree. Part of the specialness was that it was actually something fun to win. If it's flooded into Steamgifts, it's no longer special.
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Beat Hazard β iTunes & m4a file support is cheaper than 99% of other bundle games and indeed cheaper than the bundle it was in itself.
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Yes 100% agree.
However.. most people select their games based on CV. And Fortix normally is a good choice for those without alot of $$ but still want to giveback ..
My fear is once its on BL, that trend will stop for this game. As it has with so many before it.
But I do agree with you about the Indieroyales.
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Why did that event became so huge? Because:
1) It was somewhat a tradition here in SG
2) The community trusted the devs that it won't be bundled
3) It was cheap and it was not bundled
Next event won't see that amount of giveaways if this was indeed bundled
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1) It's in a bundle
2) The bundle is over 95% off.
3) The bundle is exploitable if not on the bundle list.
4) The three points above are the exact rules for adding something to the bundle list. It satisfies all three rules, no exceptions.
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Let's take this in a different perspective.
Fortix is 1$ SRP, 1$ bundle will net you maximum 33$CV if you have 166$ unbundled CV in the future (in which you need to spend 503% or 5x the intented CV to squeeze all value on it)
Now, fortix is just 1$ out of 166$, a measly 0.6% of the possible maximum CV you will gain in that 1$ bundle, How is that abuseable?
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You know your argument applies to a lot of other games too, right?
Let's take this in a different perspective.
McPixel is 3$ SRP, ~5$ bundle will net you maximum 80$CV if you have 400$ unbundled CV in the future (in which you need to spend 500% to squeeze all the CV on it.)
Now, McPixel is just 3$ out of 400$, a measly 0.75% of the possible maximum CV you will gain in that 5$ bundle, How is that abuseable?
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Well sadly that's why bundle list is dumb. Small games get trampled, a game that is being given away for so low is given a 2nd restriction so people are discouraged to give it away.
You are right with your analogy, but again, fortix was a special case in which it has been a tradition here plus the giveaway events that came with it and hidden/forum giveaways.
Bundle it and your pretty much killing it
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Even better one:
Beat Hazard β iTunes & m4a file support is 1$ SRP, 1$ bundle will net you maximum 69$CV if you have 345$ unbundled CV in the future (in which you need to spend 500% to squeeze all the CV on it.)
Now, the DLC is just 1$ out of 345$, a measly 0.3% of the possible maximum CV you will gain in that 1$ bundle, How is that abuseable?
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So? It's in a bundle. Example of other games on the bundle list that weren't heavily discounted:
Indie Games Pack - Summer Six. Two Steam games (Aztaka and Bob Came in Pieces) for $10 ($20 CV)
Indie Royale Alpha Collection #1. $5 for Towns ($15 CV)
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I believe Summer Six was the first time those games were in bundles. And they have been on the bundle list since then.
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I agree but 'the system' as it is has already caved and waffled on various issues (even about non-CV stuff, e.g. allowing minecraft), I anticipate this being just another one of those times, the mob will get what the mob wants.
If it were any other $1 game the exception wouldn't be made, it's just because of the meme status of the game. And as we all know memes trump all logic, morals, and principles.
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There are no other $1 game... and the whole point of the bundle list is to prevent CV abuse. In this case it's not possible to abuse it since the most you can make out of it is $1.19. ($.99 for Fortix, and $.20 for the rest)
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The whole point of the bundle list is to prevent CV abuse. In the case of Skyward Collapse it's not possible to abuse it since the most you can make out of it is $6. ($5 for Fortix, and $1 for the rest). The bundle costs $6.
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I never said Skyward Collapse should not be reconsidered to be taken off the bundle list, as well as a few other high BTA game, but the case at hand is about Fortix.
It's time to create a precedent upon which we can petition for the same treatment to be applied to some other games in a similar situation.
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What about:
1) Skyward Collapse $5 for $5.80 Humble Bundle BTA, so most you can make is $6
2) DLC Quest $3, minimum $4 for Indie Royale, most you can make is $3.60 (actually less than the bundle price)
All I'm really looking for is that people be honest with themselves. You care because it's Fortix, not because of some ideals about preventing CV abuse (unless you've stood up for those games before, if so, sorry, carry on then).
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I do care a bit more because it's Fortix and because of the special place it has among SG users.
That being said, I'm also in favor of a revisiting of the bundle list so that games in a similar situation be taken off, as well as putting an expiration date on some of the oldest bundles. If people really sat on their bundle keys for a year or two, I'd say let them have some CV.
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Agreed. Why should other games that don't give a large amount of CV be bundled when Fortix isn't? Just because someone likes to go "hurr Fortix awesome cause its $1 lol" and give away a few dozen copies, it doesn't mean it deserves to be exempt from the bundling rule. I can think of a dozen games that shouldn't really be bundled.
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Well, the thing is that Fortix can't be used to boost CV too much (which is the whole point of the bundle list), so I think keeping it off from bundle for sake of tradition isn't to big of a deal.
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We musn't allow Fortix to fall victim to the bundle!
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Are you kidding? It's not even as much as a 20% discount on Steam sale would give you.
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You have to pay 1 dollar for the key from the bundle. The game itself costs 1 dollar anyway, always has. You are still paying full price in a way. :p
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"I considered it a troll cause it is not a joke"
How are you going to tell me that what I said is not a joke?
"this is a serious discussion."
What? People joke around in serious discussions all the time.
Are people who make jokes about DRM now trolls?
Also you're the only one in this thread taking this discussion far too seriously. You replied to almost every post and when someone disagrees with your opinion you go "NO NO IT CAN'T BE BUNDLE THIS GAME IS SACRED TO SG! YOU JUST CAN'T".
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All bundle games should not go on the bundle list to prevent the number of giveaways for those games decreasing.
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I understand what you're saying but we have to be fair to all the other games too.
But Fortix, why arth thou in a bundle. Have you not stave off being in sale for a long time?
Was all that journey for naught but this moment when someone can acquire you for $1 with some more games.
I refuse to believe this to be so but alas the proof is in front of me.
So... today is the day Fortix is bundled and with it, it's contribution value.
But fret not, for the Fortix will flow and flow more shall it do so because of this.
Now more than ever, people know the joy of winning it.
So let be bundled because those who give Fortix care not for the contribution value but for the joy of others.
But seriously, no one in their right mind will think about boosting their CV with Fortix since it's never on sale and is only $1 so it's no real lost if it's in the bundle catorgory.
ps i have no idea what i'm saying in the beginning.
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Aye, fortix wilt dos nevereth die. IT shalt continueth on as it always hath, but only ifeth it stayseth off of thou bundle listeth. Or it is a sinisiter plot, thou frometh the makers of Fortix. They hopeth to maketh a new game for $1 that people will flocketh to buy.
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You don't know you medieval well enough. It was just a strange coalition of words that require many eths.
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Because - when games end up on the bundle list, the gift giving frequency tends to cease. Alot of people don't want to see that to happen.
Its ok to disagree, specially if you don't like the game. :D
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But the point of the bundle list is to prevent CV abuse, which cannot be done in this case.
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THE EMBLEM OF SG SHALL NOT BE BUNDLED
...
...
ALONG WITH SKYRIM
...
IF IT EVER GETS TO THAT POINT
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It's an inside joke among forum users. The majority of sg users don't even look at the forums..
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Logically then we should also make sure that Skyward Collapse stays off the bundle list, right everyone?
Edit: to be a bit less snarky.
To wit my point is, if your argument is that we should take it off because people can't abuse it, logically you should also make the same request for several other bundled games, such as Skyward Collapse. If however, your argument is that it is a special meme and injoke, then my arguing from logic doesn't matter, as that is an appeal to emotion and appeal to tradition (both logical fallacies might I pedantically add, but irrelevant in this context).
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but it's never on sale so it's not like anyone ever is buying it to boost their contrib value anyways, so I fail to see how it being in the bundle list can possibly affect the frequency of the giveaways of it.
If anything I petition to put it in a special category that gives exactly $0 contrib value for it, as a way to officially recognize it. Wouldn't that actually be a better tribute as it elevates it into some special status for you?
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No one buys it to boost their value...
From above
Delta is.
I see a contradiction.
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I fail to see your logic. By all accounts your statements mean that it can go into a bundle without being affected.
Your argument this:
1) A bundle game is put on the list so people don't abuse for value boosting
2) This makes it unattractive so people don't give it away
However:
3) No one was giving fortix away to boost their value (your own words)
Therefore I posit:
Being on the bundle list will not cause it to be given away less because 3 negates 2.
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because the default is to put bundle games on the list. Therefore you, as the advocate for change, have the prima facie burden of proof to warrant the exception. Your argument was that it would be given away less if on the list. I have presented a counterargument that giveaways should not decrease significantly. You appear to not have an issue with it. Thus the argument for the status quo should remain prevalent until such time as you can mount another argument. /debate class
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You do know that Fortix 2 was given out a lot more after it was bundled than before, right?
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Did you look at the stats page? Bundled on Feb 4, 2012. There's been a VERY steady stream of Fortix 2 being given away since, even when it was still $10 in store.
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Yes, that's because many people end up getting the bundle game who don't necessarily want it (because they wanted the other bundle games) so give it away. It's a function of excess supply that gets consumed. And all this happens despite being on the bundle list. What leads to believe Fortix would have any different arc if it was on or off the bundle list?
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It used to have a hefty price tag yet it was still being given away in droves long after the bundle
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Considering the OP's comment/thread is a preemptive action and the keys for Fortix [in the bundle] haven't been given out yet.
Your comment is negated due to not bothering to even look at the giveaway and ASSuming people weren't giving Fortix away.
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It's not really a strong opinion. The only issue I actually care about is that you appear to logically contradict yourself.
If you don't want it on the bundled list beacuse it is special and fun then sure, that's great. Far be it from me to rain on your parade. But if you're arguing that it needs to stay off or you won't give it away, I think your spirit of altruism points to exactly the opposite, that Fortix being bundled won't matter because of people like you.
But either way thanks for being one of those people who do make game giveaways.
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We all know Fortix is like everyone's little brother here on Steamgifts. And now.. after all these years, its finally in a Bundle.
I think Fortix should NOT be added to the bundle list.
Why you ask? The game is only a dollar ($1) anyways. Always has been. So there's no way to contrib boost (cv boost) with this game. Everyone needs to own this game, and like most games that end up in the bundle list, my fear is it will never be given away again.
Sign here:
**"Keep Fortix OFF the Bundle List!
Sincerely;
Steamgift Community"**
--
Edit:
Well we just surpassed 500 comments. Alot are for and there are some against.
Keep the Tradition Alive #1 !
Keep the Tradition Alive #2 !
Keep the Tradition Alive #3 !
(if anyone else has any links buried in this topic.. Post them again so I can repost to the main thread - thanks!)
EDIT 2: May 25th/14
It has come to my attention of a rumor that "Race the Sun" is NOT going to be put on the Bundle list as it was only 90% off with the lowest tier. Yet it was in that Humble Bundle Daily
I hope this rumor is proven to be false as we all know this would do an injustice to FORTIX as FORTIX was ever in one Bundle and it was a bonus to the $1 tier. Which means, Fortix was 0% off. ZERO Percent off.
Long Live the King.
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