Trying to buy votes to win an award? Not cool in my book.
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If successful, would you be using the fact you got into the top 100 in your publicity either for this game or for the studio?
I actually already have the game anyway btw, got it in the recent "flying moonrise bundle".
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By honor, you mean reach a rank in a 'best game' contest completely falsely, where instead of getting genuine votes to praise the game itself and award its hard work, you get votes by suckers that know nothing of your game and want something for free?
Yeah, just because others do it, doesn't make it a cool move.
I'll give my vote to a game that deserves it, and does not need shameless self promoting to get talk, like Risk of Rain.
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.. So you say that this thread could be considered spam, then to nullify that property, you basically pay people off? Classy strategy, dev. This kind of shit is what ruins any such rating system; thanks for that. Would you pay IGN or some other review site / Youtube reviewer to give your game a positive review, also? Bet you would.
And no, not every dev does this kind of shit. Some devs actually bother making a good game, where the main character has actual animations, and gain praise because they deserve it - unlike you.
Also, I see you haven't responded to UraniumFalconPunch's question. Let me ask it, also, see if you reply.
If successful, would you be using the fact you got into the top 100 in your publicity either for this game or for the studio?
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^ Exactly. Cases like this sadly are why online contests will never be taken seriously.
You might as well cough up an excuse of a game in five minutes, bribe everyone to vote, to get a free copy, no matter how what it is like, and the community will probably eat it up, because everyone just loves free games.
Apparently your reputation of a developer or how you get known doesn't matter, but only getting a lot of the blind to support you to give the illusion that you are a success.
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Competition was made for sharing, not only the website members that visit it. We've asked the community for help because once again, it's made for sharing. And, to be fair, we're giving free key to some of the supporters. We have actually sent 10 keys.
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? I fail to see you address anything I have said.
What you're doing is immoral and cheap. Also, I see in another post that the current state of your game was seen as early work, and nothing / little has changed before release.
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For example, do you remember like we were getting free Mafia II for voting in many categories (I can't remember the website). You can't blame us for asking you for your support. It's up to you if you do want to support us or not. But remember, if we don't support anyone and support only huge companies you'll see what you get. Of course, big companies won't give you anything for free and we want to be nice and not just ask for help but actually when you decide to help you'll have a chance to get a free key and that's it.
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What kind of a shitty comparison is that? The free Maffia II was given out by the people running the competition for the act of voting, not being offered by the game's dev. to help artificially push their game higher in rankings.
And I can't blame you for asking for support, but I can blame you for trying to bribe people into giving you support, their support thus being support for their want for free games, not the quality of your game, which is what a game's ranking in the IndieDB competition is supposed to be about.
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Sorry, but if I say it in your words, they were also artificially making people to vote on their website in those awards. And to say again, competitions are always made for sharing because you know, site benefits from it and it's no wrong to share and ask for help with begin kind enough and giving you chance to get a free key. You may have misunderstood it and there's a very nice post from for example lonemonkey1980 which is so true. Peace :)
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You missed the point. That was to attract interest to the competition. It was "vote and get something for your time!" It wasn't "vote for these specific games or you won't get anything." The first is acceptable, that encourages voters. The second is bribery and underhandedness.
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The difference is that Mafia 2 / Civ 5 was an incentive to get people to vote, but based on their honest opinions. Whereas this is trying to use the free game to artificially bolster votes, regardless of personal interest.
In case you missed it:
You are offering compensation in exchange for a voting, which bypasses the factor of actual interest.
They were offering compensation for taking part and sharing their actual opinions.
Your current defence is : "I didn't bribe those people for votes, because some of them might actually be interested and not tempted by free stuff!"
Seriously. Stop for a moment and think about this. How would it go down anywhere else if said like this?
"I didn't bribe the judges with money, I just gave them incentive to help me win, maybe they actually did like me more than the others"
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Except money has objective value; videogames do not.
The problem isn't that dev is rewarding voters with his game, because logically, only people who desire his game should want to own it. The real problem here, is that leechers abound on SteamGifts, and the results of the competition will not reflect actual interest for the dev's game. That's a problem with the SteamGifts community, and not something that the dev is directly responsible for.
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Are you even using your brain right now? The dev. is saying "vote us up and get a free game." The fact that he knows this will catch on among the SG community only further damns his reputation and makes his ploy all the more transparent. He is directly responsible for what he put on his games' page on IndieDB, also, asking people - specifically - to help get the game into the top 100. You know why? Because there's a cash prize in it for him.
You seriously don't understand the whole "judges" analogy Uroboros put up? Is it really that difficult to see the parallels?
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So not only do you resort to starting off your argument with an insult, but you also make no effort to actually address what I've said. Keep it classy.
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And you made no effort to address what he said. So, you know, good game there.
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Yes, because I'm not going to waste my time trying to argue with someone who behaves like a complete asshole.
Also, address what exactly? Ansatsunin's post is predicated solely on his presumption that the dev intended to exploit the SteamGifts community in order to gain an edge in the competition, though he offers no argument to support his point of view. Fact of the matter is there is nothing intrinsic about the dev's reward that makes it an unfair incentive, and the only thing that might be suggestive of the dev's motivation, is the uninspired and sensationalist nature of the OP, which blatantly promises a free game instead of asking for people to check out said game and vote in the competition if they like it. However, I think that that's hardly reason enough to generate the amount bile that this thread has, and furthermore, I don't think it's fair to take the blame off of the leechers and put it solely on the dev, regardless of his intentions.
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As for the amount of bile, that's due to two things: the fact that the game had drawn some attention months ago, in an incomplete state, and has been released now with little to no further work having been done on it, as well as the general attitude of the dev in the thread so far, going so far as to use a shill who had multiple accounts on here to defend him (who has now been suspended).
Go ahead, read the responses the dev's given so far. See how he tries to lie about his intentions, and use crap like "oh it was merely a play on words" to defend himself.
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I didn't address what you said because it has all been addressed already throughout the thread, along with being addressed in comments back and forth between me and the dev. The fact that you don't see how saying "vote for my game, and get a free copy" is a direct buying of votes frankly baffles me, and inspired the beginning of my reply. The intent wasn't to insult, but truly go "dude, like, wth?"
The dev. knows people like free stuff, not only here on SG (with its' oh so horrible moocher mentality), but worldwide. If you offer something for free, anything at all, it will be picked up by people. The dev knew this, and is using that to garner a higher ranking in the awards, to net himself the cash prize.
The "correctness" of the moocher mentality here isn't at issue, whether or not it is the cause of the skewing of the votes - the dev abusing that mentality to buy votes is, which you are undermining with an otherwise good point that merits a separate discussion; that people shouldn't vote for the game, nor want it, if its' not good / they don't like it.
The two issues are unrelated, and furthermore - people shouldn't merely not vote for the game because it's not good, but because of the underhandedness of the dev in question. What if the game was a very good game, one that was really fun and great and all? Would that make him buying votes morally OK / fair to all the other devs in the contest all of a sudden?
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A quick translation of what you're saying, if this was a governmental election:
You're
What part of this is even still a discussion? What part of buying votes are you trying to twist now? Now you try to defend by saying it's good for the website?? You know what, I am posting a new comment at the end of this thread, ending this nonsense.
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Or people want it for free because there's no way they're ever going to pay for it. If you hadn't noticed, people enter giveaways for Bad Rats and The War Z. People will enter anything. A free game is a free game, doesn't matter if it's any good or not. As for promoting, yeah, they're promoting it. However, there's ways to promote a game without trying to buy someone's vote. How about "Hey, check out this game on Desura. It's about X and costs Y. If you like the demo, please buy it! If you liked the game, please vote for us here!" That's far, far better than what OP is doing here.
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The example you are using is very bad. Bad enough to actually do nothing in the argument.
The example you used was to get people to vote for various games. It was added as an incentive for people to participate in the voting process. Multiple games and multiple genres,multiple devs where involved. You had to vote between various games for one category or another.. like "Best RPG of the year" as an example. It did not involve 1 vote for 1 game specifically.
What you are doing is totally different. You are giving away free copies to people that vote for your game specifically in order to win the competition your game is in. Big,big difference. One is considered an incentive, the other is considered a bribe.
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Who made you the arbitrator of what I should and shouldn't comment on? Btw, you didn't need to reply to my post, you could've left it alone you drama queen. :p
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You know, there was a time when some of us believed that this is a game in development and looks like since then you did nothing but publish it. It's a big NO!
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Also, read the devs' super classy "but other guys do it too" comments on this thread. Doesn't exactly inspire me to want to vote for them, anyway.
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Wait, is that actually what it looks like? At release? Just... wow...
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FunCG? Really? This is the worst possible thread for that forum code. :(
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So you want people to falsely push your title up into the top 100 on the chance they may get a free (Desura) key?
Bold on the part I am asking about. Either way, even if you give everyone keys (and not just some contest winners), still a dirty practice. Is it just one winner? How many keys will be given away? The odds of course are determined by the number of entries, but you should at least state how many keys you are planning to give away for your contest.
"First, there's voting for Indie of the Year at Indie DB and we would be so happy to get among TOP 100. Please, give us your vote by clicking 'vote for this' banner on our game's page on Indie DB.
When you do so and you want to get something you can do the following thing. After you have voted for Noire you'll be eligible to get a free copy of Noire on Desura once you sign-up through LazyGuysStudio form and are chosen by our team."
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Vote for Noire right here and then you'll be eligible to get a free key for Noire once you sign-up through this form and are chosen.
GL :)
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