Example: for me is leecher everyone who have more wins then giveaway :D (simple reply)
and about blacklisting? no all leechers, but any guy who have 25 wins a given 0 is instantly blocked or if he have high leech ratio.
// Very nice example:
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Someone who game more wins then giveaway? Strange answer there...
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How do you deal with giveaways that are unlistable though? I've made giveaway puzzles for games I've gotten through bundles that were unlistable because I suppose at one point they were given away for free. Keep in mind they were no longer free when I gave them away. So, my profile says I've won 14 games, given 4. But excluding private giveaways, and massive key giveaways (500 keys, 1,000 keys, 500,000 keys) my ratio is actually closer to 8:6. Perhaps that's still considered leeching but the point is, going off the stats alone may not be accurate.
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No, as I indicated in that thread I don't see the point of it for many of the reasons you bring up. I'd rather just make a level requirement on my giveaways and be done with it.
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Public groups which are open to join to anyone? with 5000+ members?
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What about "private" forum-visible giveaways? Like this thread of mine http://www.steamgifts.com/discussion/63yhG/halp-ai-nid-halp-hau-du-ai-jenereit-za-chiis
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What about private giveaways that are listed on a forum thread, without any entry barrier other than the fact that you had to open the post to see it? They are open to everyone. Same goes with large groups like S.Gifts.
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again those kind of GAs obviously have more that 50 people in it
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That's a terribly simplistic definition and it doesn't even make sense in a giveaway environment. This isn't a torrent community, so why should give/get ratios matter? You could argue that they work similarly, but they're nevertheless incongruous comparisons. Whereas torrent leechers hinder a given file (or files) from distribution by downloading without uploading, a leecher in a giveaway site only receives gifts. The giveaway is not for some continuous file that is dependent upon seeders, but rather a one-time raffle that goes from the contributor to a winner.
Giveaway sites operate more off altruism and generosity, whereas torrent communities operate off mutual contribution to keep the torrents alive. In a torrent community, bytes are being transferred to ensure files remain up, whereas a giveaway site is an exchange between a contributor and their winner(s), the latter being expected to redeem the gift and thereby removing it from the economy. They're disparate systems and it doesn't make sense to impose one on a community which wouldn't fit it.
Anyway, even if your definition was adopted, what impact would it have on how leechers are treated? Should they be blacklisted immediately once they fall below a ratio? Should I blacklist you if you, out of sheer luck, win a giveaway and it places you in the negative? A leecher/seeder system doesn't work in a giveaway community, so I don't see why the community should be subject to that system.
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No, I'm not trying to defend myself. I'm trying to argue ethics and propriety here. Perhaps if you responded to my actual arguments, then maybe we can continue an exchange. I'm trying to have a civil discussion here, but that's apparently foreign to you.
If you consider me a "leech", then good for you. Blacklist me and I'll blacklist you back for being a petty, bitter person who deprives others of opportunities because you don't win enough during your gambling charades. Oh wait, you already blacklisted me. Whatever will I do! Now, I'll miss out on all the bundled trash you scooped up off paying $0.50 at your bundling site of choice! Maybe you should get off your high horse. The broom shaft you've glued to the harness is digging into your brain.
You're the cancer that is killing this site, so being blacklisted by the toxic scum of the community doesn't phase me in the slightest. When I do my next giveaway, I'll rest satisfied knowing you won't get the opportunity to win.
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All of my purchases are directly from the Steam Store. Sorry, I don't peddle in leftovers. Also, no need to link my profile. People can literally click on my name (in case you didn't know).
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And that's patently false. I give away games when I can afford it and I actively contribute to the site by actively participating in discussions, encouraging good behaviors, and frequenting the forums. I also report rule breakers and discourage the breaking of those rules in order to give back to the site. Sorry, not everyone has enough money to buy games, and not everyone has a credit or debit card they could use in order to purchase bundles off Steam. I rely on Steam Wallet gift cards and the generosity of my family and friends in order to buy games. If I had a job and money to spend, I'd give away more.
Your presumptive sanctimony is pathetic, not to mention hypocritical. Why aren't you giving away games people actually want? If anything, it seems mightily selfish of you to buy bundles, use the keys you want, and give the leftovers away. That's like buying a meal and donating the scraps to a homeless shelter. A few undignified or desperate souls will gobble up the trash, but in the end it just seems like you're trying to boost up your level so as to get access to better giveaways. You do occasionally give away a game actually worth something, and I applaud that, but even then I wonder if it's out of philanthropy or if ulterior motives are at play. Have I branded you wrong? Gee, that sucks. I guess it's only fair, though, since you're openly slandering my name.
I am not a "leech", but I don't really care if you think I am. You're a hypocrite and your hostility is exactly what drives off people from giving away. I would rather be poor and despised than rich off insincerity any day.
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"You're a hypocrite and your hostility is exactly what drives off people from giving away"
LOL^^
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Yep, I choked on my popcorn too when I read that ;)
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Explain the problem here.
Just to be clear, my point is that people would be more liable to give away if the community is friendly and encourages an environment of generosity, not disdain for people one arbitrarily considers "leechers". Perhaps there wouldn't be so many leechers if they weren't so despised, since this hostility is likely to convince them that the people on this site do not deserve any generosity. Additionally, forcing people to give away out of fear of being branded a "leecher" and blacklisted as a result sounds like extortion to me. Their giveaways aren't out of generosity and kindness, but fear of being blackballed. You consider this healthy and conducive to a site that is founded on generosity?
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Oh boy, linking to a profile people can get to by clicking my picture again. In fact, every single one of my giveaways have been Store-bought, and none of them have actually been in bundles to my knowledge.
I'm contributing something. It shouldn't matter what I contributed. If it did, it would invalidate virtually all your contributions as actual bundle trash (you know, stuff that was actually in bundles).
This is my final response. Enjoy your embittered indignation at a problem of your own contriving.
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Wow! He was able to win Valve Complete Pack with 5610 entrances.
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I actually didn't expect to win that giveaway and when I did, I contacted the giveaway creator. I informed him that I owned roughly half of the games in the package and that, after some arithmetic, it would cost him less to purchase those games at full retail price from the Steam Store than to purchase a Valve Complete Pack on sale from a trader for $40. I even said he could give me a regular game and take the Complete Pack back, or to redraw the winner, since I didn't believe I earned it! He declined and said he didn't care, and told me to redeem it. I felt bad, but I did. (My brother was trying to convince me to sell the pack and buy the missing games through trades in order to look like I redeemed it and make a profit. I declined because I felt that was unethical and unfair.) In return, to show my gratitude, I invited everyone on my friends list to his Steam group and promoted his site, wherein he gives away games to lucky winners all the time.
I even created a thread on the Steam Forums and contacted Steam Support about receiving extra copies from redeeming the package so that I could give those extra copies away and spread the generosity (I did purchase the original copies I redeemed, after all).
I was very lucky to win and I was very grateful for the gift. Seeing as I even tried to return it and tell him to redraw the winner, I would hardly consider that as leech behavior.
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If your Won to Donate ratio is 10:1 or worse, and you've been a member of the community for over 6 months I would consider that leeching. You are obviously using the site, not contributing anything back to benefit the community, so you are leeching.
Typically I don't blacklist anyone like that unless they say something to catch my attention, like complaining of a GA they are entering. My blacklist has Bots/Scammers and people I consider to be assholes or have said something that made me want to slap them through my screen. Not a lot of that going on here thankfully.
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I Don't blacklist them unless they are ass.
1000+ games on account
200+ positive trades
150+ wins
0 giveaways
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As I said there is black, white and a millions of grays... this looks black as shit tho xD
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ya...grays who are nice ..friendly people..who write scripts ..help each other in forums make us laugh are whitelisted..
blacklisting just comes down to basically not liking person..
everything becomes subjective in these kinda questions :D
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My definition of leecher is very simple. It is someone that has never made a giveaway and has won atleast one game.
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Nope, I don't. Mostly because as soon as they do one giveaway I no longer consider them a leecher. They could have 1000 wins and one giveaway and I'd still consider them a valued member of the community
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kicks you in the butt
That doesn't make any sense Ceebers..
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Ever hear of Extenuating Circumstances? Myself for example. I haven't made any GA's and I've won 1 game (and that 1 game wasn't even a public GA). So, by your definition I'm a leecher. What about the fact that the reason I haven't made any GA's is because I'm unemployed. Am I still a leecher?
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Considering that he has been a member for 1 year already, I agree. However, if he was a new member (couple weeks old) I would still give him a chance before I call him a leecher
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Your definition is so simple as to be unethical. It allows for no variation or exceptions based on unique conditions. Are you able to justify your position? If not, why should anyone adopt such a terrible paradigm?
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I did my first giveaway after my first win, I need a prove "that" will work :D after it's worked there's no reason to join, I wanna know where my money goes
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Agree. You can not influence your winning-ratio and since it's pure luck you should be lucky if you win something and not think: "Oh no, I won Witcher 3, now I have to gift a 60$ game :("
But if you make just one (public) giveaway, I would consider you as a valuable member of this community.
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Never won any real game of my interest anyways.
How lovely of you to enter for the games you're not really interested in and lessen the chances of those who really want it... -.-'
I have nothing against people who can't contribute for some reason but behavior like this is what I have a problem with.
Why even enter if you don't want it?
Just to win something, anything? Now that's greed, not poverty.
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Funny, I lose all my respect for jackasses who throw insults and swear when something they don't agree with comes up. This topic is pretty relevant to Steam Gifts, it's just irrelevant to you because you have no intentions of ever giving away a game.
This excuse of "I'll never be able to gift games" is crap, anyone can sell a few cards on the market and buy a cheap game on a pricing error or heavy discount to throw to the community, just to be a helping member.
To say the whole point of GA's are to help people who are less fortunate...well yeah that is kind of true. However look at where we are, on a gaming website that requires you to have X amounts of Real Life Money invested into Steam, which requires you to invest money into a PC, which requires you to have an internet connection every month. I don't think anyone in that situation has the right to claim to be "less fortunate". You're pretty fortunate to have everything you do have.
On that note, it's posts like this that generally find their way to my blacklist. The person who reads something that they feel describes them so they get angry and upset and throw insults around at people trying to bully.
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OMG! someone finally actually says what I've been saying... No one here is worrying about their next meal, you have a PC, internet, electricity, AND a significant steam account BEFORE you got anything from here.
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This is how I see it too. No matter how poor, if you don't have 2-3 dollars every 6+ months to show some good faith for the site, you would not have the required Steam level to enter, a computer or internet. I still would not automatically blacklist someone who has not given anything (perhaps they use borrowed computers and have gathered gifts, who knows), unless they also show such lack of humility and proudly admit they don't even want what free things they get while offending people left and right.
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Sometimes it's not your money that has bought you the games thought. I can only speak for myself, but during my childhood I had very little disposable income. I got games every once in a while, and would save up whatever money I had, but the computer that I had access to was not "mine", nor was it something that, under normal circumstances, my family would have been able to afford (my family & close relatives sold a small plot of land, and for the money, my family bought a computer and a few other things). I could easily see someone else in a similar position. If someone has hundreds upon hundreds of games, that's an entirely different story though...
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" buy a cheap game on a pricing error or heavy discount to throw to the community, just to be a helping member."
then the accusation of "oh yeah, you just tried to exploit a price glitch to farm CV" gets thrown in the air
i know, necro and all that, just wanted to point this out.
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Don't mind me asking, I have absolutely no problem with people who have more wins than giveaways. But why did you enter for games that don't interest you?
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You won Fall Out New Vegas, that one of the top of my best games.
But true, one of the side of the giveaway is for the people who need it more than the giveaway creator, well more of the times at least.
So you are welcome here as everyone else.
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There's gonna be even less for you to enter now I bet.
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Yeah, you just need to chill down a little, so people don't misunderstand what you really think.
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For someone with a big picture of some Marijuana in your profile, you really need to chill out and calm down man.
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You're one of the few users I blacklisted, not because u are a leecher, because u blame others, you even blame the community for not being nice with you, lol, man, u must be a little pathethic, welcome to my blacklist anyway, have fun in your REAL LIFE.
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This thread is really bringing out the assholes in this community. I think it's important to leave it open so it serves as an elitist asshole billboard.
Having opposing views threatens other's self esteem.
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"Never won any real game of my interest anyways."
I Should have stopped reading after that, it only gets worse from there
Apparently we should feel sorry and donate him games, as if they were a necessity product.
And for what?...to receive this kind of attitude from the person who won
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It's rare for me to blacklist someone because he's a leecher but I won't hide that I get a bit disappointed when one of my giveaways is won by someone who gave back barely nothing (or nothing at all) or if all his giveaways (and high level) is obtained exclusively with group giveaways with barely any entries.
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For me it would be a person who indiscriminately enters every giveaway with the sole intent of adding a game to the library with little to no intent at playing it. A hoarder without spending money.
Also, yes, if that person is level 10 or whatever but enters the high-level giveaway only to get over 2500 games which he never touches, is a leecher in my book too. When you get stuff from someone only to get the stuff but never use it is a much larger insult to the gifter than using an automated script to enter every giveaway of game X from your wishlist to finally get it.
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Discriminating against people with mental health issues instead of giving them the help and support they need, and here I thought we were in a mature forum.
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Where did the user say that? Because I'm not seeing anything of the sort.
No mature forum blacklists users simply because of some nebulous appeal to them being a "leecher". We haven't been a "mature" forum for years.
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Sarcasm which was so esoteric that nobody but yourself could pick up on it. I'd recommend putting some more work in it.
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Since I have quit ever again doing any level 0 give aways I have no need to worry over them... but your first example of "Y" will usually find my blacklist.
These are usually the people who call others leechers and then ONLY give to a small group, but happily enter anything public. I view that as them having already 'Blacklisted" the vast majority of SG users, myself included, so therefore don't want them entering for my below average stuff either.
In the end, people can/will blacklist for whatever reason they deem to be justifiable to themselves, which to me is appropriate.
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But it's sometimes different to say. If you look at my profile, you'll see that most of my giveaways are private or group. But most of private ones were puzzle or forum giveaways which weren't exclusive to any specific group of people. And group giveaways were mostly to S.Gifts or other big not-so-exclusive groups. Does it make me a leecher (let's ignore the fact that I've won far more that given away for a second here :) )?
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I never know how to deal with the folks with tons of the "private" give aways for that very reason... Was it a puzzle? Was it a forum topic link? Was it something sent to only friends? I really hate that you can't really tell what's up with those.
I do a lot of group give aways myself, but I try to make most of them multiple groups, and I do some large group/public ones as well to make sure I stay within my own standards.
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They should perhaps incorporate a system that takes into account points accrued via private giveaways, and those that are public. It does seem rather silly that I could create giveaways for a group I'd just created with a few of my friends or perhaps alts, and happily get points for it knowing I can then use them to enter higher level public giveaways. They need to be differentiated; having a separate set of points for each one.
I don't think I've ever entered a private giveaway (and I'm certain I've never created one) that I'm aware of, so I don't really know how the mechanics behind the group or private giveaways work.
May I also ask why it is you don't create any level 0 giveaways? Cheers.
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Sorry, was gone all day... I personally don't do level 0 give aways for 2 reasons, first I have decided that anyone who wants to take part in my give aways have at least contributed something. If you haven't, you just can't. No big deal, there are 1000s of others, I'm a small timer compared to the overall.
Second, on the former occasions I did do level 0 ones I find that the receiver seems to take extra long to mark the game. It's just one more facet of the inconsiderate I guess... Most higher level folks seem to better understand that when you sent something out (I often send out within minutes of my endings, I time them for when I am likely home and on the PC) you want it marked, so you know everything went smooth. (and you get your CV, but I'm usually most concerned that everything is "done")
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Finally.
If I don't buy any lunches for my pocket money for the whole week I would be able to buy 1-2 non-bundled games on Steam sale just to giveaway xD
There are no ways I can get any extra money to buy games on Steam.Also,in my country if you buy games,people call you idiot because "you can just use your Internet and get everything you want for free"...That's why I joined some websites with giveaway system =\
BUT I always try to get some games without investing real money,you can see it if you look in my library AND I try to giveaway some,but they all are named as "bundled" on SteamGifts so it seems like I got them in 1$ bundles as everybody did.However in my country PayPal is somehow "broken" so I can't use it to buy from Bundle sites.
ATM I'm trying to get LVL 2+...
Am I The Great Leecher?
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Nope, you're doing what you can. That's all anyone can expect, you're trying, unlike a leecher that has no intention of trying at all, only taking
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This statement right here pretty much sums it all up.
Also,
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Apparently in many of the site's users' eyes, you are.
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People who say they can't pay for games to giveaway but at the same time have a Steam library of 500+ games...
Also ratios of >1:2 sent/won.
Or people that give away 5 copies of every -90% DLC just to raise CV.
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I don't get your first sentence, they might not be able to pay for games, but got the games as gifts or from giveaways...
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This would imply that they got atleast 350 games as a gift, if such a person gave away none or very little he/she is a leecher in my opinion.
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Most of my games have been gifts ... I honestly don't have the funds to give away games willy nilly to random strangers, but I give when I have something extra. When I do have money for games I spend it on the people who gave me games first to repay them. So you're going to tell me I'm a bad person for that?
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I never implied a leecher is a bad person.
Also you won 10 games and gave away 8, I wouldn't even call you a leecher to begin with.
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It was a hypothetical ... and leecher could be considered an offensive term at least, if you classify them as not being bad people.
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I don't blacklist all leechers, only people with 10+ wins and no giveaways (or, if they've won 1 or 2 great games and not given anything).
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in my opinion leechers are the lucky users that somehow managed to win much more then giveaway, it doesn't mean that they don't say "thanks" on giveaways, they just win out of pure luck from random chances (even though the chances seems to be a little changed to benefit gifters)
call me a leecher or a lurker if you want but most of us come here for a chance to win games or for the trades, either way if we create giveaways it means that we want someone to win it and "leechers" are just the lucky folks
are there users that don't win as much as they gift? yes, a lot of them!
is it fair? of course not! lucky folks will be called leechers or will have to create giveaways to avoid being called so and unlucky folks keep giving away games to raise level and have more chances of winning, speaking of myself i do giveaway to have some chances of winning and when i look to some users with 3 times more wins then giveaways i do feel a bit envy but there's also those with 100 giveaways created, with a 300/100 won/sent ratio is he a leecher? maybe... maybe not! pure luck, there is no such thing as a leecher unless if he has 0 giveaways created and even though they don't choose to win, without saying that giving away games is not a rule but an option
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People who enter for the games they don't like / plan to play, but since it isn't possible to verify that, I only blacklist scammers.
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In my book a leecher would be someone that has been here for a while (like at least half a year) and is still level 0, I guess. Didn't really think about it too much since I don't blacklist leechers, just people that break the rules one way or another. As you said, level limitations are enough.
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sometimes we should all stop, reflect on our lives and asks ourselves important questions. "Who am I?". "Where am I going?". "Am I a leecher?". "What was in that briefcase in Pulp Fiction?". "Who would win in a fight: Bruce Lee or Martha Stewart?"
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I like to think that Jesus has "What would Batman do?" bracelet.
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That's so silly, Bruce Lee is dead Martha Stewart would destroy him. Afterwards, she would use his broken bones to accent a nice end table and make a lamp using a glue gun and some simple every day materials.
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Bruce Lee vs Martha Stewart - skeleton vs old lady! Not that hard: the old lady will win - unless she has a weak heart.
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What people will not say is that it's a way to shame people who use this site as it's intended and enter giveaways without giving back (either they cannot or will not).
In reality, its definition isn't there to simply feed every single elitist's ego because they have 'more giveaways'(it's the amount of $dosh$ you have given away that matters). A real leecher would be the equivalent of a pack-rat, a hoarder. However, you could have countless games and still be blacklisted because people 'assume' that you're a leecher and then you're shit out of luck anyways because, yeah, people are assholes.
In any case, I've almost given away the same $$ as I've received and not because I've been intimidated by the horrible community that this website has. No, you guys aren't intimidating. I've been giving away games because I want to. I don't need to reach some stupid standards to be part of some ego-fuelling groups or be on some random person's whitelist.
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I've been giving away games because I want to. I don't need to reach some stupid standards to be part of some ego-fuelling groups or be on some random person's whitelist.
Amen.
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I'm more of a vodka person, weirdly enough, but I can adjust.
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Too many years of Vanilla Vodka + Coke and years on Fark have destroyed the potato liquor for me.
Compromise - Long Islands!
And for the Vodak lovers
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Sorry, what were we talking about? I found some bottle with a clear liquid and I'm dizzy now. :(
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Quick put some alcohol on it so you don't get sick!
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Wait, what if I get sick again? More alcohol? Nevermind, I answered my own question. Guess I'm taking a trip to the 'thirsty shop' today...
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If you get sick, try eating some Rum Cake. You need to balance the vodak out with cake. Or with french fries. In Canada, poutine will work also.
This makes me think, why is there no Steamgifts drinking game?
Points go up by ten - take a drink.
Bad Rats is the featured GA - Finish glass.
Forum post made complaining of wins - Take a shot.
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That would be lethal. I don't think I could do it since I'm a lightweight. ;')
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To me, leeching means only giving a bundle or two to get to the contribution max and enter higher GA and then only take, but never give.
And people trying to GA multiple free keys.
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i like your thinking.
i really couldnt care more if anyone is a "leecher". the only stuff i wouldnt like is someone who uses a bot to enter giveaways.. thats just not fair
but everything else.. who cares if your write thx into a ga? who really cares if someone got more than he gives
this whole idea is about giving away games for free... not getting free stuff... and especially not about complaining why someone else is more lucky than one self!
i like your mindset so far so i will do something i never done because i dont make such giveaways.. welcome to my whitelist tough ;D
/btw your the first one that gets onto it ;D
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Of course i don't blacklist "leechers". If someone lucky enough to win more than he gave, is it his fault? And not everyone can afford to give more that win (for example me :P). But thx-script are bad, i see no sense in it. If you really want to thank a contributor, you will do it yourself :)
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Inspired by http://www.steamgifts.com/discussion/D5CPJ/blacklisting-botsleechers
I've seen tons of definition of "leecher", some of them are hilarious, some are just senseless...
according to you, what is a leecher ?
Let's discuss about the behavior of the random users X and Y.
X gifted 100 and received 150, is X a leecher ?
Y gifted 250 ONLY in private gift-exchange groups and received 200 (he won some public GA too), is Y a leecher ?
X has a script that posts a random thx-comment in every GA he joins, is X a leecher ?
Y sometimes post a random thx-comment, but if Y wins, he always posts a thx, is Y a leecher ?
X gifted 100 and received 200, is X a leecher ?
Y gifted 400 (Y is american\european but has gifted a lot of russian\brazilian non bundled stuff - a lot of IGN free games of the month - whatever; TL-DR Y has spent less money than X to reach 400) and received 300, is Y a leecher ?
X is 14 years old, has 5$/per-month, X gifted 50 and received 200, is X a leecher ?
Y is 30 years old, has a work, Y gifted 200 and received 200, is Y a leecher ?
TL;DR:
How do you judge people you don't know ? I mean, I'm aware that the world is dark and full of jerks but... things are not quite so simple always as black and white.
I have more than 100 users in my blacklist, (anyway most of them are scammers that don't even use SG) but I've never blacklisted someone just because "ZOMG he won 200 and gifted the ship !!!!" I cannot know what's going on in his life, probably he's a jerk, or maybe he can barely afford a PC, I don't see why I should blacklist him, we have levels for that.
I usually blacklist people who break rules or rude guys. Now, my profile will probably be inspected and blacklisted by someone, like I give a shit about that.
So... what is a leecher for you ? do you blacklist them ?
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