I'm with you, jade...I think it's common courtesy to state what the game is ahead of time. You should make it a suspendable offense if they DON'T list the game :P
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With that rule, you just suspended 90% of puzzle creators. Have fun with your empty forums.
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I didn't say to make it retroactive. If it suddenly becomes a requirement to list the game name, are 90% of puzzle creators going to stop? I doubt it.
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If you guys don't like my puzzles or don't agree with my opinions, don't try to solve them. Feel free to ignore my threads. It's really not that difficult o.o
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It seems like this just makes extra work for the puzzle creator. If you want to take a look at my previous thread discussing puzzle cheating, you'll see that most people think that there are no implied rules for puzzles at all. If you don't say "do not share hints, give answers, etc" explicitly in the puzzle, they don't think it applies.
I, and most other puzzle creators I know (of the older generation of makers), have always operated under the assumption that leaking the game name was a suspendable offense. Based on your commentary, I guess the newer generation doesnt feel the same.
In response to the "it is actually common courtesy to say the game upfront" comment:
I have never said the names of the games I am giving away up front. I ask you: Why is it that you can't see the name of a private giveaway in your profile? The only reason I can see why it was implemented is for the purposes of keeping the name hidden for use in puzzle giveaways. With this comment you are calling the majority of puzzle makers discourteous. If you want proof, I can give you a list of approximately 500 puzzles spanning from May 2012 to now in which the creator did not reveal the name of the game.
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I'll speak up. Yes, I think the majority of puzzle makers are indeed discourteous then and I think stating the name of the game should be required.
I would say the main reason private giveaways are hidden is so people don't beg for links.
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Just because others have done it that way in the past does not make it the best option.
Freedom of choice is something most people respect highly, and hiding the title of the game creates limits to that freedom. If the game title is known, the "player" may choose whether or not to attempt the puzzle (regardless of whether he or she already owns the game) and whether or not to enter the giveaway upon achieving success. If, on the other hand, the game title is hidden, the "player" is limited to only the first choice with no guarantee of even being given the second. This is, by its very nature, restrictive, and often results in frustration when expectations are not met.
By contrast, the creator of the giveaway continues to enjoy full freedom of choice regardless of the giveaway's details.
While there is no requirement to divulge the game title in private giveaways, it shows respect and consideration for the "players" to do so. Different individuals will approach the matter in different ways, each according to his or her character and motives. I find it obnoxious, however, when false arguments are used in an attempt to excuse unseemly behavior.
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+1. Bravo, Kalaq. You said it much better than I did!
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You make good points. However, I must say, as stated in a post below, that gambling is part of the nature of puzzles here imo. Revealing the game kills a large aspect of that, while perhaps increasing the freedom of choice.
It seems to me that there are two camps here:
Most puzzle solvers want to reveal the name of the game, to avoid frustration and "waste of time" for finding a game they already own.
Most puzzle makers do not want to reveal the name of the game. They want for it to remain a surprise and, for me at least, feel that it's part of the fun of making the puzzle. I will admit that schadenfreude may be a part of puzzle making as well.
Edit: I wrote this post before you replied below, so I will reply to your aguement about the first part below
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Game leaking for puzzles. I can understand the frustration of some people. Many of my F5 giveaways I like the games to not be said and to let it be a surprise but many people do it anyways.(Usually it's for the bonus/meh games.)
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Wow, a long post that I'm in full agreement with. All of that is very fair. Specifically, you're right that it's discourteous to not say what game a puzzle leads to. Of course, if that's kept a secret, I generally just assume it's Fortix, especially if the post says something like "it's a AAA game!"
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Here is a comprehensive list of almost every single puzzle made in December (I may be missing one or two)
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/1KEMv/a-riddle-of-the-sphinx-a-quest-for-civ-5-puzzle
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/z4wof/my-14-century-on-this-world-incoming-bunch-of-giveaways
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/WlXDF/anime-puzzle
www.steamgifts.com/forum/EulAI/puzzle-guess-the-movie
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/EFVMK/4-days-4-puzzles
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/5F2lW/duke-nukem-forever-puzzle
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/4YM8V/sleeping-dogs-10-q-giveaway-video-puzzle-ends-on-january-15-eSt
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/vL5iD/a-small-quiz-of-resonance-p/page/31337
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/fv89j/puzzle-for-titan-quest
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/GanDZ/sonic-3d-blast-not-too-hard-puzzle
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/hdG7m/happy-birthday-to-me
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/yssM9/st-nicholas
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/uC5xT/tv-show-trivia-giveaways
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/KWFnY/puzzle-wuzzle
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/qZV9t/anime-puzzle
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/lFjn8/puzzle-giveaway
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/04yq2/puzzle-giveaway-know-the-night-sky
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/zAiZE/quiz-video-game-music
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/fkPKo/microquiz
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/nsVeH/puzzle-2-3-days-remaining
www.steamgifts.com/forum/xHnfC/puzzle-hard-winterpuzzle-2
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/wAh3p/my-first-puzzle
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/4zcZ2/simple-puzzle
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/H7nVb/puzzle-giveaway-2-awesome-games
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/65lq0/its-a-little-known-fact
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/716GK/another-puzzle-giveaway-hopefully-easier
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/i2yjy/my-friends-a-puzzle-for-you
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/VFYug/my-first-puzzle-giveaway
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/ryBpq/10-q-puzzle-giveaway-bioshock-2-ends-12pm-est-january-5-2013
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/3Ywf6/puzzle-giveaway-bioshock-ended
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/m8HQI/retro-games-quiz
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/AwHQi/band-puzzle
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/YYdXu/i-hate-its-too-hard-puzzles-puzzle-inside
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/3grt9/character-guesses-puzzle-inside
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/ktsBM/multi-step-puzzle-giveaway-ending-9pm-est-132013
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/ZhRqH/puzzle-the-sneaky-stole-giveaway
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/elYfz/retro-games-quiz-with-clues
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/UWdht/its-too-easy-puzzle-giveaway
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/rUOFO/its-too-easy-puzzle-giveaway
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/C2aZv/its-too-easy-part-3-puzzle-giveaway/page/3
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/aoshF/its-too-easy-part-4-puzzle-giveaway
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/RF7XL/quiz-video-game-music-bonus-giveaway-upon-completion
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/43lL1/ruined-mood-puzzle
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/C4G0y/i-stole-a-puzzle
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/zuvdP/an-easy-puzzle
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/o3jJJ/so-kan-you-read-it-mate
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/1lEIS/no-giveaway-here-move-on
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/6QoPo/merry-christmas
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/RxbJY/christmas-giveaway
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/iMNME/so-the-world-didnt-end-bilbo-so-how-about-an-adventure-an-adventure-for-a-giveaway
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/uqoXP/mobile-app-achievement
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/Kgdd7/mecorx-brought-9-faerie-treasures
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/bRlss/god-please-giveaway-inside
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/t7SWN/to-cheer-up-the-community-a-little
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/kIBNu/american-economist-puzzle
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/Pk2lP/obligatory-birthday-giveaways
www.steamgifts.com/forum/xTNYC/puzzle-the-winterpuzzle
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/wtLce/new-year-anime-quizes
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/aw2zy/hidden-giveaway-in-here
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/MAwxU/forum-flashing
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/bCHwx/does-this-bow-make-my-package-look-bigger
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/btBnh/compulsory-birthday-thread
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/jTsNT/fasty
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/h6Jon/important-questionz-i-cant-gift-dota2
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/RbcCm/solution-its-too-fast/page/2
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/7oA0S/love-for-everyone-also-giveaways
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/EOilv/by-a-lonely-prison-wall
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/4qop9/go-shawty
You are calling the huge majority of puzzle creators "discourteous"
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Oops, I forgot to include my own puzzle that month, in which I did not reveal the names of any of the 42 giveaways
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/XWcQB/group-puzzle-holiday-giveaway-extravaganza-86626-full-solutions-up
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Wow, thanks for compiling that list. That's about what I was guessing. It looks like most puzzle people aren't thinking about their players, as you show. I was beginning to wonder if I was just missing a lot of the ones who used common courtesy.
That's already somewhat clear, of course, since many of them make puzzles that ask abstract questions with many correct answers and then only allow one right answer or only accept misspelled answers. It's helpful to see a list showing the prevalence of that part of the problem though.
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It looks like most puzzle people aren't thinking about their players
We have a fundamental disagreement. I'm arguing that most puzzle makers, including me, do not reveal the name of the game being given away. Why is this not "thinking about their players"? We design puzzles to be solved. The reward should be the sense of accomplishment finishing the puzzle, not necessarily the giveaway at the end. That's why a lot of puzzler makers don't reveal the game.
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While I agree that puzzle solving should be for the sake of a puzzle itself and that warm fuzzy feeling inside, the fact is that, as Jade said, there is a lot of puzzles on SG, and it's very hard to pay each of them enough attention. Knowing that the time and effort spent on solving the puzzle is going to reward you with a chance to win a game on your wishlist helps to prioritize your options and is also a good incentive to keep trying to solve a difficult one.
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If someone does not feel like working on a puzzle because the game isn't revealed, that's fine with me. From my experience, if you don't reveal, you still get a ton of people trying to solve though.
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A bunch of people who lose the sense of accomplishment
That's part of the fun in doing puzzles. You don't know what lies at the end. People gamble in life all the time. In fact, I would say that most of the giveaway groups here are essentially gambling groups.
If solving the puzzle is the reward, people will solve it even if you tell them what they reward is.
Good rebuttal. I should have worded things differently. The giveaway is also part of the reward, I shouldn't have implied that only the sense of accomplishment itself is the reward.
The best way to tell puzzle makers that they need to reveal the games is to not work on the puzzles. Until then, I'm not going to be revealing the games I give away anytime soon, nor will a large majority of puzzle makers.
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And yet you are confusing the two things. If you wanted to create a giveaway where people "gambled" on a game unseen, you could easily do that without including a puzzle. Likewise, you could post a puzzle without having to tack a giveaway on the backside of it. When you make the puzzle a requirement to gamble, however, you asking for an investment of time and effort with no guarantee of payback. That's like having to put down 100 quid for a lotto ticket which may or may not be a blank piece of paper instead of a proper ticket.
If you don't want to reveal the game name, that's your choice, but don't even try throwing up false arguments.
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A proper ticket offers the possibility of payout. A blank piece of paper does not. The outcome may or may not be the same, but the implied promise is not.
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Seems to me like it may be a more efficient way of doing things. If you get a blank paper, you know you lose up front and don't have to worry about it anymore.
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don't even try throwing up false arguments.
Please stop. It's one thing to share your opinion, and I respect that. It's another to completely dismiss someone's point of view just because you don't agree. If my argument is "false" yours is just as "false."
If you wanted to create a giveaway where people "gambled" on a game unseen, you could easily do that without including a puzzle. Likewise, you could post a puzzle without having to tack a giveaway on the backside of it.
Both true, and there are people who do both of those things.
When you make the puzzle a requirement to gamble, however, you asking for an investment of time and effort with no guarantee of payback.
I'm a little confused here. I thought the point of gambling is that you might win big or you might lose it all. If you have a "guarantee of payback" it's not gambling at all.
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I apologize for getting a bit heated in my response, but the argument you presented was disingenuous at best. Perhaps it is because you yourself are confused as to the difference between puzzling and gambling, I don't know. The differences, however, are many and distinct. I will limit myself to three, here.
--Gambling involves an uncertain outcome, puzzling does not.
--Gambling requires investment in the hope of greater return, puzzling does not.
--Gambling is restricted as to where and when it is practiced, puzzling is not.
In connection with those three differences, I'd like to point out two things you should notice in regard to gambling versus puzzling:
1) There are no successful gambling games which require successful puzzling before you qualify for payout--gamblers simply refuse to play them.
2) SteamGifts is not based on gambling. SteamGifts is based on the voluntary submission of games for a drawing by those who want them, and no (monetary) investment is required of the participants.
Now, there are various obstacles included in giveaways in order to reduce the number of entries, and those may or may not require an investment of time and/or effort. The greater the investment required, however, the more like gambling and the less like puzzling the giveaway becomes. If you choose to "narrow the field" for your giveaways, that is your prerogative, but you should be honest with yourself why you are doing so and what impact it has upon the community.
I think I have said enough on this topic.
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Let's play a game. I choose a number from one to ten (using some potentially non-random method). If you guess the number correctly, I give you a game (or the link to a giveaway). If you don't, you get nothing. You say this is not gambling, and with your strict definition, I would agree. What would you call this game then?
In any case, I will retract these two statements:
"People gamble in life all the time. In fact, I would say that most of the giveaway groups here are essentially gambling groups."
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Regarding the sense of accomplishment: ah, that might just be a different taste then. I would never want to play a video game that made me start the game over after completing a puzzle or one that randomly crashed when completing puzzles. I need the promise-and-reward system of progressing to the next level. I know that metaphor isn't fully accurate, but it's close for me. As for the steamgifts scenario, I find it cumbersome to do work in order to be allowed to gamble (what game is this? = gamble) on another gamble ("I now have a 5% chance to win a game that I don't want. Now I'm frustrated with the puzzle I was just beginning to feel satisfied with.")
Regarding not working on the puzzles: I mostly don't. I doubt that would have any effect. Puzzle makers don't get to see how many people work on their puzzles and quit in frustration. Voicing annoyances with the problem and/or allowing users to leak the game title is the only way to get around the problem other than just deciding it's not a problem.
I don't care much, really. I mostly ignore puzzles, after getting burned.
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It seems that I grew up in a different era than you :P
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Wait, we're in the same time period then.
I just thought that when you said "start the game over after completing a puzzle" you meant like starting a game over when you run out of continues.
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It's a risk that solvers have to take. No one is forcing them to solve the puzzle; there are plenty of public giveaways for everyone to enter. I've seen people posting that they have the game already in the puzzle giveaway page, but I've never seen anyone bitter or angry that they wasted their time solving the puzzle.
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Yeah, most of us are probably quietly bitter rather than trolling about being bitter. =) In my case, I just figured out that since most puzzles here are incredibly annoying and unfair (in terms of them not allowing many correct answers), I'd rather just ignore most of them and play a better puzzle game. However, there have been good ones on occasion that I've bothered to solve. I would solve some of the annoying ones if they had a game behind them that I wanted, of course.
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I have seen bitter and angry posts. I've also seen the same "thanks for the puzzle" comments in giveaways where the game title is disclosed. You get "thank you's" regardless. (For myself, I disclose all information about my giveaways up-front.)
My response to your claim that "nobody is forcing them to solve the puzzle" was already contained within my first posting.
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I think I'm interpreting your post incorrectly. You say "I have" which I take to mean that you have seen people posting that they are bitter and angry. In this case, your second sentence doesn't logically follow because "thanks for the puzzle" comments have no bearing on the subject at hand.
Regarding the last sentence, I can't really find any of your posts above that directly relates to what you are referring to. I could have passed over the post, but I'd really like to see a response to it.
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[My above post is edited for what I hope is improved clarity.]
Before a person can even determine whether he or she wants to enter a giveaway, much less choose to do so, he or she is forced to solve the puzzle. Why? Because information about the giveaway can only be attained by solving the puzzle. If you do not fulfill the requirement, you are under embargo.
In the U.S., giveaways and free drawings may only be called such if there are no such "restrictions" to entry. That is why sweepstakes always have an alternative, "no requirements attached" method of entry.
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Before a person can even determine whether he or she wants to enter a giveaway, much less choose to do so, he or she is forced to solve the puzzle. Why? Because information about the giveaway can only be attained by solving the puzzle. If you do not fulfill the requirement, you are under embargo.
I agree for the most part.
In the U.S., giveaways and free drawings may only be called such if there are no such "restrictions" to entry. That is why sweepstakes always have an alternative, "no requirements attached" method of entry.
I don't even have a response to this. Could you explain how this has to do with steamgifts or the debate?
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SteamGifts == steam game giveaways ==> no special requirements to enter
Must solve puzzle to enter ==> special requirements to enter
I apologize for beating a dead horse, but the only reason to restrict access to a giveaway (by any means) is to reduce the number of entrants for said giveaway.
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SteamGifts == steam game giveaways ==> no special requirements to enter
I don't agree. Contributor value is a special requirement. Same with group giveaways. And forum giveaways. There are many ways to restrict entries, and Steamgifts caters to them all.
I'm not really sure what we're debating about right now. I was trying to get clarification about fubarnocaps original point: "No one is forcing them to solve the puzzle; there are plenty of public giveaways for everyone to enter."
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Usually, if I don't feel like working on a puzzle, it's down to two reasons:
Either I don't like the puzzle, or I don't have the time to spare. Rarely is it because the game wasn't revealed, and rarely is it because I already have a revealed game.
I'm gonna quote you, jatan...
We design puzzles to be solved. The reward should be the sense of accomplishment finishing the puzzle, not necessarily the giveaway at the end.
That said, like as SleepyCat mentioned, given puzzles of equal time consumption and difficulty, yes, I will prioritize one that I know has a game I really want behind it.
But that's me. I'm sure other solvers come at it differently, and to me, that's fine. In general, I recognize (and, incidentally, tag) the creators who make good puzzles, rather than puzzle creators who specify what they're giving away.
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As jade said, you'll still have several people solve puzzles even if it's a game they already own simply because they enjoy them. But you act like everyone sits on their computer all day with nothing better to do than to solve puzzles. As you proved, there are a lot of puzzles. I didn't count your list, but I'd say there's gotta be over 30, which means at least one per day for that month. If puzzle makers listed the game, then it would be easier for people to choose the puzzles they want to solve rather than cherry pick and HOPE it's a game they don't have and actually want.
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Adding a puzzle to a giveaway is merely an additional obstacle to narrow down the number of entrants. It is no better or worse than any other method used to accomplish that.
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If you don't have the time to do puzzles, then do the ones that you enjoy more. Personally, I dislike puzzles that are just pure quizzes and/or cryptography, so usually I skip those.
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What utter rubbish. If the sense of accomplishment gained by solving the puzzle was the actual "prize," people wouldn't feel the need to include a giveaway to go with it.
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Some people really enjoy making puzzles and want people to participate, so you could technically say "wasting people's time" and be right, but not because they're trolling. I personally don't bother if they don't reveal the game but I still respect puzzle makers if they do keep it secret
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If they're good puzzle makers, they won't have to "trick" people into working on them.
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but the nature of the game in a giveaway may also be part of puzzle. You shouldn't assume that we all are just making lazy-ass itstoohard quiz - puzzle may be very complex - look for jatan events or my puzzles, and forcing such a regulations limits us as a creators.
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Sleepy - the point is that game name MAY be revelant to a puzzle, be part of the puzzle or part of a hidden stage. If I don't give game name away nor I hint it I MAY have a reason to do so.
And adding forced rule by Jade is forcing me to give away hint in such a situation.
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Of course, I'm totally fine with the game title staying a secret if it's relevant to a puzzle or a hidden stage, as you described below.
But what if it is not relevant at all? Will keeping it a secret make more people attempt the puzzle in hopes of finding their top wishlisted game in the end? Will it at the same time cause frustration instead of satisfaction when they solve a difficult puzzle and see a giveaway for a game they already own?
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List of Puzzles from June 2013
Revealed Game:
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/pqjPi/small-puzzle-2-big-gifts
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/bhEl8/maw
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/Qtcsz/puzzle-go-and-grab-your-free-copy-of-rome-total-war
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/Pe6iR/puzzle-dear-esther
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/BctWw/its-that-time-again
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/NM1D8/papa-yo-riddle-giveaway-i-want-to-play-a-game
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/iXAyC/soundtrack-quizga
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/zjApD/poker-night-at-the-inventory-puzzle
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/q6u3b/puzzle-giveaway-inside-24h-left
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/xoaB3/puzzle-for-intrusion-2
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/imkDh/do-you-like-games-and-quizzes-then-step-right-up
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/POzrq/primordia-giveaway-fps-puzzle
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/QPdKB/quick-civ-v-puzzle
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/YDmm7/giveaway
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/rRl6C/hello-i-want-to-play-a-game
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/3qc5x/stupid-bundle
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/2HEwI/puzzlethomas-was-not-so-alone
Didn’t reveal game:
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/DxvIe/puzzle-try-to-solve-this-and-win-1-or-more-games
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/tOAbR/puzzle-giveaways
www.steamgifts.com/forum/0kEic/the-great-birthday-puzzle-10-steps-even-more-gifts
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/wl8hb/puzzle-quest-for-real-hero
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/HEbxQ/puzzle-giveaway-n-4-and-5-new-giveawaypuzzle-added
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/EzAuF/thought-of-trying-to-making-a-quiz
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/1HdCq/puzzle-this-is-the-end
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/bqH9z/ermahgerd-i-lost-my-gift
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/VpB74/i-am-going-to-graduate-from-university-next-month-yay
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/dPIDR/i-want-to-play-a-game
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/QMbbA/solution-exam-giveaway-shenanigans
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/lGjIu/silly-scammer-i-can-also-control-time-and-space
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/t5CZL/my-first-puzzle-theme-carmageddon-2
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/Kx6Wt/milestone-ive-given-away-300-games-giveaways-inside
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/4HsBW/arrested-development-season-4
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/vbxDD/and-a-mysterious-copy-appears-d
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/ECLiF/give-away
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/qujJx/giveaway-puzzle
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/dtuJf/puzzle
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/Kg34s/who-likes-potatoes
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/kquro/puzzle-giveaway-self-centered-6you-3
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/5KCCk/there-is-no-giveaway-here
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/sIukv/1k-comments-yay
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/XbSbz/this-site-is-even-more-unfair-than-i-thought
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/DMiSW/i-never-win
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/1Xiqk/giveaway-n6-easier-questions
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/BFYB1/thers-no-giveaway-here
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/JNtNa/game-trivia-puzzle-2-gas
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/G52pX/puzzle-ga-try-to-solve-or-i-shall-hex-you
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/qKbuz/huzzah-the-return-of-the-not-new-type-of-hidden-giveaway
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/qjolC/take-a-break
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/9Uown/birthdaaaaay
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/AzZPi/do-you-like-fire-puzzle
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/HEbxQ/puzzle-giveaway-n-4
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/qujJx/giveaway-puzzle
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/UfjWc/puzzle-giveaway-riddles-are-so-easy-2-days
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/qbFO8/puzzleh
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/tDjuB/solved-cryptogram-puzzle-giveaway
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/ar4Cd/puzzle-giveaway
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/JWbPo/soundtrack-puzzle
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/Rl8qC/i-never-win
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/q8qb5/troll-puzzle-giveaway-inside-level-55
http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/LGf8f/lets-regift
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Common courtesy is about what is commonly considered courteous, not what is commonly considered common.
(Interestingly, common courtesy is usually defined as a synonym for etiquette, which isn't meant to be something most people are using.)
This is all a bit counter-intuitive, but it's sensible (and true) anyway.
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Real-life example:
"Thank you."
"No problem." (common response)
"You're welcome." (courteous response)
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I find "No problem" to be more courteous and "You're welcome" to be more common, personally. Good way to explain what I was saying though. It makes it clearer. We probably live in different places with different people and have different views on what is kind/genuine.
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That seems likely. I grew up in an environment where people spoke "proper English" where the word-choice used colors the expression. To me, "No problem" is the equivalent of saying, "It was easy (or convenient) for me, so I thought nothing of it," and that carries the implication that, had it been "a bigger deal," the person may not have acted in the same manner. This is a lot different from "You're welcome," which means the action was done expressly for the benefit of the recipient and no reward is sought.
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Good explanation.
I also grew up with "proper English" emphasized (from the age of 8 onward, I've been in an academic environment), but managed to come to a different perspective.
To me, "you're welcome" suggests that the speaker completely lacks sincerity and is just saying what he/she thinks is polite. That makes it less meaningful than "no problem," which means "That's the kind of thing I could do again, don't bother to thank me." From my perspective, in the long run, "No problem" is simply a more genuine way of telling a person he/she is welcome to expect/request the same kind of behavior again.
We're discussing a small, subtle thing, but this is fun!
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"You're welcome" is a much more common response in North America than it is in many other nations with their roots in British English, and may sound a little clunky or American to many English speakers.
There is no definitive version of "proper English" which will meet with universal acceptance in all quarters. Language is too infused with regional, national, political and historical differences for there to be a single universal and definitive "correct" or "proper" version of something so culturally specific...
There are certainly rules and usages which would be deemed entirely incorrect in any community of native speakers, but the subtleties, social nuances and even some of the basic arrangements vary wildly from culture to culture, and what might be deemed the most correct, proper and "high brow" execution in some cultures could be met with snorts of derision, and social ruin in others :)
For the record, a more natural/proper substitute for "you're welcome" in English English might be something along the lines of "My pleasure" or "Think nothing of it", but (as per the above) these might not sound particularly natural to a lot of English speakers, and may not be universally considered a "proper" or "normal" response even in some UK dialects :)
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"proper English" & " colors " in the same sentence? Wut?
colours
And yes, I agree with the rest of your post. Just grammar nazi-ing.
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I would guess "common" in common courtesy doesn't precisely mean "frequent," but "simple" or "ordinary," as opposed to an "above-and-beyond" kind of courtesy. "Common" courtesy: holding a door open for someone. "Above-and-beyond" courtesy: driving twenty miles to return something someone left at your house.
At least, that would be my guess.
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I was trying to see how much difference there was in 6 months. It does seem like the fraction of revealed puzzles increased.
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Yeah, I didn't have the time to manually parse through each quiz. I only went directly to the thread to see if it was in the OP or not
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you missed mine puzzle :( http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/MWJrn/new-zelgh-style-sg-puzzle-solution-posted
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derp, I actually forgot to include most of the puzzles I have currently opened in a tab.
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I'm afraid I have to disagree (but hey, I'm not a mod, so it doesn't matter what I think). Although I've always encourage people to list the game up front and I mostly gave up doing puzzles because I got to a point where everyone seemed to not mention what game it was for and my own personal library was getting large enough that doing puzzles where I didn't know the prize was basically just a big waste of time for me (I don't know why it's consider a common courtesy, unless times have changed and people actually list what is being giveaway more often now). Yet I still think it's suspension worthy because the rule "Be considerate of all users at all times related to the site/chat, etc." I think it's very fucking rude to show that amount of disrespect to someone who has put the time and effort (and money) into making a puzzle since they can sometimes require a lot of time to make. I won't do the puzzle if they don't say what the game is, but I still honor that they want to keep it a secret.
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I kind of agree. If I wanted something to be a surprise (and I'm not one to troll people), I'd be angry if someone decided to reveal which games were being given away. Most of the time I'm quite happy sharing this information with those who really want to know via PM, but to spoil it for everyone else publicly is a bit of a pisstake. Then again, there's a reason I don't make puzzles often.
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"So, to clarify on what we do act on but has remained a largely unwritten rule, if you do not want the name of your giveaway posted, simply post something to the effect of "Do not tell people what game this is on the forum" in the giveaway description or the forum post, and if someone does then post it, we will suspend them."
You might want to reread that part.
Edit because quotations are hard.
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I've been on this site for 1.5 years and I've never knew about that [unwritten rule] before this thread, here I thought that people who were being deliberately rude and disrespectful would be dealt with and that if someone didn't post the game for a puzzle it was probably intentional
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I agree with you, I've never heard this before, either. But apparently, if you don't want your game to be spoiled, - and know about this [unwritten rule] - leaking the name of the game will be suspension worthy. That's kind of good.
Personally, I consider it pretty rude to tell the name of the game without asking the puzzle creator, but I understand why Jade would be hesitant to suspend a user for what could just be a misunderstanding.
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This unwritten rule was just made today by Jade, which is why none of us have heard of it before..
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I agree with Monukai.
If the puzzle maker doesn't state the name of the game, of course it isn't supposed to be revealed by others. That requirement to get suspensions in case of this kind of leaking is terribly bureaucratic.
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Oh I missed tha drama :] In majority of cases I do not reveal the game and do not want it to be revealed. Pretty much specifically to discourage people from solving that could in the end say they've wasted time. I do not want such people to be near my puzzles at all and I'm completely fine with the feeling being mutual. Also I tend to think revealing the game especially if it was a nice expensive game would be something that breeds cheaters, focused too much on getting to the game by any means instead of being focused on the puzzle itself.
I gather I have to spell it clearly now among other more obvious things that have to be spelled out anyway every time because there's always someone who did not read actual rules that you can't argue about because they're pretty clearly written xD So be it :]
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With the mods on this one. In any case, you shouldn't be able to suspend users based on "assumed" rules as someone called this above. If you and your puzzle makers all had this assumed rule in place but it's not posted any where including the FAQ then how are new people supposed to know? Not even just new to the site but veteran forum goers who just decided to try out puzzles one day? I've been here a year and this is the first I've even thought about someone saying the game in question; I would never have thought it was considered suspension-worthy (by some people) to do so. If it's so important to you then just stipulate it as a rule as jade said. Not hard at all.
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The rules also don't say that you arent allowed to post on Yahoo answers asking for help. We all thought it was implicit from this line in the FAQ: "Puzzles: Do not leak, post answers, suggest hints, or directly link to the prize/giveaway."
I don't know about anyone else, but I think the "do not leak" portion could refer to not "leaking" the name of the giveaway.
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I don't think "could refer" is concrete enough to suspend someone over it. It any case, I always understood that part as not leaking the link to the puzzle if it's a private one and after reading around this thread a bit I am confirmed by Cross in that (Edit: my mistake, he does say that it's his personal opinion. But what with him being a mod it does mean his opinion does count for quite a bit).
And for asking for help, if you're not allowed to give help you're not allowed to receive it (from anyone other than the creator) either. I think it was you, yourself, who made the example of a teacher forbidding copying and the person getting answers from someone who took the class last year. That is just finding a semantic loophole and working on technicality. But when it comes to the question of leaking what the game is about there is literally NO rules or anything that even hints at all about it. With your example you could honestly point at the very line of FAQ you quoted and say that in logic and fairness one can't receive help either. But there is nothing to point at for the leaking of game name. No hint that something like that might exist. How would anyone ever know? There's nothing to even deduce that rule from.
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I forgot to edit the post you are replying to - I had that FAQ statement in several posts here
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I've seen the thread where one puzzlemaker complained about support, and have later seen Jade's topic about discussions. That was clue enough to who was to blame about what happened. Not sure who was invited for consultations that are mentioned, when the end decision was as it is presented here, but as I was not I'll say a word or two about it here.
I've made puzzles where I said what game or DLC I am giving away, but most of my puzzles were without that information. The reason is the same that Award mentioned - I want people to focus on the puzzle itself. If they are there for reward only, they should go to public giveaways instead. That is my opinion on this, and I said it often and loud - it even bothered some people enough to start insulting me - not gonna link to that thread, but it is there even now.
Puzzles are for people who like to solve puzzles, gift is just a bonus. Creator should have the right to include or exclude the name of the game he is giving. Whoever does not like his/hers decision, should and does have the right to avoid said puzzle and solve some other puzzle, or just join group/public giveaways. Spoiling anything about puzzles is rude and in my opinion should not be allowed.
Sometimes I do write "do not reveal the name of the game"and sometimes I forget because, let's face it, nice people do not reveal anything, while rude people used to call me names in the forums just because they could not solve a step in the puzzle marked as [hard] in the very topic, as I already mentioned. Whatever rules you write, whatever you ask of them, they will ignore. I guess that is how you do things when you believe you are entitled to get gifts and solve puzzles just by appearing in the thread where the puzzle is presented.
There's a ton of puzzles I could not solve, or I had no time to solve. How is that fault of their respected creators? If I don't know how to solve it, I see it as an opportunity to learn a new trick and am thankful if creator posts the solution. If not, well, it's their decision. I usually do not have time to solve anything, so I'm solving maybe 1 puzzle per month. I do like to create them. I do everything I can for my puzzles to be fun. yes, sometimes they can be hard, sometimes gifts are not what you would expect, but is it that hard to remember - it's a free game. It's a free puzzle. Someone tried to create an experience for you. if you don't like it, go away. Do not spoil it for the others.
What if we all started going around and commenting "Eeew, game X, this is lame!" in public giveaways? We'd be considered rude. How is saying the same about gifts inside puzzles any different?
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Wow, as I did not agree with some of yur opinions in the past, now I must say I agree 100% :)
I was one of the puzzle makers invited into discussion, but it doesn't mean I'm agreeing with solution. The so-called consensus was chosen imho not in favor of puzzle-makers, but in favor of mods so they would have less work, what I can understand, but still I'm opposed to it.
I totally agree, happens in every damn puzzle of mine ;p
What if we all started going around and commenting "Eeew, game X, this is lame!" in public giveaways? We'd be considered rude. How is saying the same about gifts inside puzzles any different?
What's even worse, what about info about game name is part of the puzzle? The person may not only be rude but also giving away hint without even knowing it. Puzzles are non-standard medium. Each puzzle (not to be mistaken with quiz) will differ from others. Said so allowing spoiling anything is already forcing some kind of puzzle ideas out.
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Agreed. If there was a need to keep the name quiet, the creator should stipulate that in the rules. The only reason there was a heated discussion is because someone got upset when there was no such stipulation and the name was leaked. That still should have been settled by asking the person to remove his or her leak.
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From the FAQ:
"Puzzles: Do not leak, post answers, suggest hints, or directly link to the prize/giveaway."
Leaking the name of the game is covered by "do not leak... the prize/giveaway," no?
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You'd have to ask the person who wrote the FAQ. He or she could have meant "leak answers" instead of "leak any information."
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Okay, a mod below suggested that it meant that you can't share a puzzle if it's meant only for a specific group. That line in the FAQ clearly needs to be more transparent.
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In my personal opinion I think you're flipping the whole thing around, Jade- wouldn't it be more logical for people who are ok with the game being revealed to just reveal it like they would anyway rather than the people who DON'T want it to be revealed to have to go an extra step and forbid it? Sure, lately most big puzzle makers have to spell out the rules because a lot of people apparently don't know them but this is just making even more work for puzzle makers. It's common sense that if something in a puzzle isn't revealed then it wasn't intended to be revealed, so why should a puzzle maker have no way to do anything about it if someone revealed the game given away and they forgot to write in the rule?
Also this gives a rather unfortunate implication- is someone reveals the game and refuses to remove the spoiler(yes, it's pretty much a spoiler) after being asked by the puzzle maker then they obviously have malicious intend(either because they didn't like the game being given away or for whatever other reason). Otherwise why would they be pissing off the puzzle maker intentionally? This gives the implication that due to the lack of a (written) rule the offender wins.
Ugh, that sounded horrible. I had to rewrite that several times but I hope you understand what I'm getting at...
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Jade covered "malicious intent" in the OP.
Also, the default for public information is "non-secretive." There needs to be a reason to keep secrets. Common courtesy, however, dictates that you ask permission before divulging possibly sensitive material, just to make sure.
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Sorry, but how did he cover that exactly? I can't find it.
So basically what you mean is that, yes, if someone wants to reveal the game, they should ask the puzzle creator because they might be "divulging possibly sensitive material" and need to make sure...
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That would be appropriate (and common courtesy), yes. However, a person cannot be faulted for divulging the title if there has been no stipulation regarding it.
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I don't understand where you're going with this... Are you using complex words on purpose to put me off? :P
Regardless- this rule gives leeway for people who purposely want to ruin puzzles. Like I already said, anyone who wasn't given permission by the giveaway creator and is revealing the game wouldn't have any other reason to reveal the game in the first place. And if puzzle creators are restricted by some rule saying they HAVE to state this in their own puzzle or else they can't do anything about it... well, then the offenders win. And you didn't answer me where, exactly, in the OP this was mentioned.
To sum it up the puzzle creator is the one taking their time to make the puzzle and make a giveaway in the end- last time I check it's their decision if they want the game to be revealed or not. Saying that if they didn't mention the rule they can't do anything about people leaking the game because "it wasn't leaking the puzzle" is like a slap in the face.
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But you don't reveal the games for your puzzles o.o
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Because I observe, I see that most of the puzzles, games are not revealed plus the fact that other members are saying that it's a suspendable offense. Now that it came from a support that it is not, I will wholeheartedly say the game I'm giving away in my future puzzles
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It's partly based on the interpretation of this rule:
"Puzzles: Do not leak, post answers, suggest hints, or directly link to the prize/giveaway."
"do not leak... the prize/giveaway" sounded to me like you can't leak the name of the giveaway.
Also, Award meant that you implied that if a puzzle maker reveals the giveaway that he/she made, the puzzle maker is suspended.
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By the rules of grammar, if you are to apply "[to] the prize/giveaway" to "Do not leak" to make "Do not leak the prize/giveaway," then you must apply it to all items in the list. This is because when you are making a list in a sentence you are providing a list of things that the rest of the sentence applies to. Following this rule, the above sentence broken down would look like this:
If all items can't be separated like that and still make sense then it usually means that's not how the writer intended it to be read. To me, number 2 does not make sense; and while number 3 DOES make sense it would mean that suggesting hints to the puzzle itself is no longer listed as a rule which is highly unlikely. So they probably mean "don't leak the puzzle, don't post answers to the puzzle, do not suggest hints to the puzzle, and do not directly link to the prize/giveaway". They also do give "Puzzle:" at the beginning which indicates that's what the topic is. Eg. Apples: do not eat, do not throw, don't climb the tree. It's easy to see that the first two commands refer to apples themselves while the last refers to the tree which still has to do with apples.
I'm by no means a grammar nazi; my own grammar isn't perfect. But grammar's purpose is to clarify meaning. Is my version what the writer really meant? No idea. But it is a good way to figure out what they probably meant. God, I probably sound so pedantic now ._.;
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Yeah, I was giving the interpretation I had before Crossbourne's post below. It was corrected already.
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Guess I missed all the excitement, but this seems reasonable.
I've never revealed the puzzle games I've given away beforehand in the past, but after reading this and other comments, I will make sure I do so in future. Fore-underwhelmed is forearmed...
The only bit I'm not entirely convinced about is offering amnesty to leakers in return for removing spoiler links though. I appreciate the practicalities, but puzzle spoiling is a real dick move, and I'd be all for threatening a permaban rather than the standard temporary suspension unless they deleted them (which, I guess, would require a temporary reinstatement for the offender before they were suspended again). Once leaked, even for a short time, the damage is done. Still, I'm probably being too harsh, and maybe a carrot achieves more than a whip sometimes :)
Anyway, thanks for clarifying :)
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Being the support member that handled that ticket (It's always me that causes such uproar all the time anyway), I stand by what I said. I don't believe that giving the name of the game being giveaway at the end of the puzzle does not spoil the puzzle itself, and does not give any other user unfair leverage in solving the puzzle. Since the giveaway itself is hidden in name, there's no way for users to know what game it is, other than solving the puzzle itself. If a user says what game it is, it can easily be a lie (which was not the case here). I have solved puzzles and created puzzles too, and I don't mind being spoiled or giving spoilers about the games, but I understand that that's a personal preference.
In any way, thank you for bringing this issue up. I will talk with cg to see his view about this issue, and we will act accordingly after that from now on. However, I'd suggest you to reopen a support ticket and put forth your point of view the next time you don't agree with a decision, instead of making it blow out of proportions. I'm not against discussions, but as it can be seen from the thread that gave rise to this, sometimes users fail / refuse to see things from each other's side, and it turns into an avalanche of insults and blacklists.
I'd also like to remind you that when we'll be able to see user reports (which will be soon from what cg says), you will not be informed about our decision. This was just me being courteous (if I may say so) and letting the user know what I will be doing (or not doing) and why. You can always question our judgment obviously, and inquiries are always welcome.
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Could you give me your opinion on what the "do not leak" portion of this line from the FAQ means?
"Puzzles: Do not leak, post answers, suggest hints, or directly link to the prize/giveaway."
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My personal opinion is that it means "Do not leak puzzles." In other words, if a puzzle is shared among a private group, it shouldn't be shared with outsiders.
Edit: Sharing it on Yahoo! Answers would be an example.
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Okay, thanks. I just wanted to see how other people interpreted that statement.
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Sorry Cross, but I have to disagree, I will copypaste and example from other post cause I don't feel like writing the same thing 3rd time ;p
Let's say I'm making Puzzle with 2 Stages (2nd Stage hidden), where 1st stage reward is Bad Rats and 2nd stage reward is Metro Last Light hidden within Bad Rats GiveAway. In most of my puzzles and quizes I do either reveal the game title, or hint it in some way inside the puzzle. If then, out of nowhere nowhere I add "Do not tell people what game this is on the forum" to my rules some people will automatically assume I'm making a troll puzzle, but what's even worse - my puzzle regulars will immediatelly know that there's something fishy that I don't want game revealed this time, will be more cautious and find hidden GA easier. So I'm forced to give hint I may not want to. Now let's imagine I decide not to post this rule so I don't give away any hints. And some noob goes to the forum and starts bitching "Do not solve this puzzle - there's only Bad Rats at the end." - and now I have 2 possibilities 1) I tell this person there's something more, again being forced to reveal existance of hidden stage, or 2) Ignore him, and a lot of people seing his post will not even try solving my puzzle and will have no chance of finding about hidden stage.
It's just an example from yesterday chat, in closed topic I was giving other examples. What I mean is that as puzzles are non-standard format of a giveaway (real puzzles, not quizes) and as such you cannot look at them in a simplistic way you do. In some cases revealing the game name MAY BE affecting process of solving puzzle, and if some part of puzzle is hidden within a puzzle the user revealing game name may even don't be aware that he's spoiling a hint. And if we, puzzle-creators are forced to add rules prohibiting spoiling any parts of the puzzle, including namoe of the game, you're forcing us to give hints ourselves.
In conclusion, as real puzzles are very non-standard and differ from one another revealing ANYTHING abou this puzzle should be up ONLY to creator, not to staff or users, as only creator see the whole picture and may decide what is and what isn't crucial for his puzzle.
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I read your example. Again, I don't necessarily agree, but I respect your opinion, and cases regarding this will be treated as I said below.
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That's inqusition... Hail to a Church, hail to the King! (and we're waiting unsolvable puzzles for Fortix, thanks)
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Not really going to say much other than I think that the person who makes the giveaway should generally have the final say. If he doesn't put the name of the game in the post, then neither should you, there's obviously a reason, whether he just wants it to be a surprise or something entirely different. I don't really enter puzzle giveaways in general, but sometimes a puzzle giveaway without a game listed is meant to be more exclusive. People may not want to bother solving a puzzle for a game they already own and would not waste their time, while others solve every puzzle in the hopes it'll give them a better chance for something they want. A secret game gives those who try harder more of an edge (fewer people would solve a puzzle for Fortix than for Skyrim if the games are named, but the same number would solve a giveaway for an unnamed giveaway for either, and because some people who solved the puzzle may have the game, that leaves a very small pool of people left to win :P).
And I didn't actually plan to write much, I kind of just kept going...
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Don't you think that it will affect popularity of puzzles? So many ppl disappoints in "Fortix for Skyrim" puzzles
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Not particularly. Honestly, like I said above, I don't really solve puzzles. I really only do when the puzzle itself is actually entertaining. I even occasionally solve a puzzle for a game I own just because it's fun. If the puzzle isn't worth doing for it's own sake, I probably wouldn't even solve it for a game I didn't own, unless the game was something very special. If I don't know it's an amazing game and I don't feel like doing the puzzle, it'll just give someone else a better chance to win it ^^
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You're right, but also there must be a correlation between puzzle difficulty and it's prize (not puzzle for Bad Rats for knowing all British Encyclopedia)
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But if it shitty long puzzle, that I want to crack and....Bad rats at the end?
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I agree with Jade on this one. I dont even start puzzles when I don't know the game given or the creator cause it turned out too often that its just a bundle game that needed a few hours of work investment. That's in no relation. Even on my hidden puzzles I revealed the game to win after the forum thread except when the game itself was part of the puzzle. Revealing the game on a not hidden puzzle when the game is not important to the puzzle itself is not killing anything and I agree with wojtek that the attempt on that special case was simply trolling.
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And why are you generalizing. I sometimes give away game name and sometimes I don't. If I don't I usually have a reason to do so, as it may be hidden somewhere in a puzzle or revealed at some point later on. And no - most of my puzzles are not for bundle/shitty games, and if they are it's often a distraction from real prize hidden somewhere along the way.
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turned out too often that its just a bundle game
It's pretty easy to tell if someone is giving out a bundle game. Just look at the profile - if there is a previous history of bundle games or there aren't many giveaways at all, there's a good chance that the prize will be a bundle game. Whether you think it's worth the time investment in the off-chance that it's actually a valuable game, I cannot say.
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;)
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If puzzle is good then people will try to solve it and it wont matter if they dont know what the game is, but most of the puzzles are either too hard or make no sense or just broken and the chance that it will be just another copy of %gamefromrecentbundle% is very high. I would always prefer the puzzle where the game is revealed cause i dont want to waste my time and if i stuck in unfair puzzle i most likely will just drop it. Also i prefer good puzzle for fortix over crappy abomination for skyrim legendary.
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Early this morning, there was a support ticket about reporting someone who leaked the game a puzzle was about. Not the giveaway link, not the answers, not even the fact it was a puzzle in the case of hidden puzzles, but the game itself. I will get to the details in a minute, but the answering support member declined to suspend the user as they felt nothing was truly spoiled. However, what we did not foresee was the giveaway creator taking it to the forums and posting a thread asking opinions of that. That's fine. What wasn't fine what the 104 posts of dreck that went into that thread. Absolute hostility, threats of blacklisting by people who don't even have a blacklist, it was not a good thread. That thread is now closed and I would prefer to keep the intense drama out of this one, so please do not link to it.
For a start, the moderator to blame would actually be me, as my opinion was asked of the situation. I was not shown the ticket or knew the user or the thread in question. Maybe if I had seen it, my response would have been different, but as it is, the action is done now, the users have spoken and I am going to clarify our rules on it right now.
Telling people the name of the game is not a reason for suspension, nor is it truly leaking anything, in my opinion. Unless the name of the game is integral to the puzzle somehow, it is not considered to be part of the puzzle, merely the end result. To my knowledge, this has always been the case and we have no plans to change this fact. My unofficial view, that is not representative of SteamGifts policy or of the other moderator's views, is that it is actually common courtesy to say the game upfront. As was said by numerous people in the thread, there are so many puzzles, all of varying difficulties that it can be very difficult to do them all with time limits (especially when those aren't posted). Those who don't have the game can attempt it, those who do can either move on to another puzzle or, if they are a puzzloholic, attempt it anyway for the fun of it. There's more of us than you might think.
Telling people the name of the game has never been a suspendable reason as far as I am aware and we have no plans to change that. However, there are ways around this. If the game is somehow part of the puzzle and they leak it, that counts as puzzle spoiling and is a suspension reason.
Furthermore, while I have said my views above, I am also aware that sometimes you want the giveaway to be a surprise, or you simply wish to troll by promising BioShock Infinite and giving Horrid Henry. I've done that myself, once for fun, once to disguise what was secretly a two-part giveaway where the prize was so ridiculous it subtly encouraged people to search for the "real" one. If someone had posted "hey, thanks for Call of Batman 7: Battle Bastion", that would have ruined the surprise and the second half of the giveaway, wouldn't it? So, to clarify on what we do act on but has remained a largely unwritten rule, if you do not want the name of your giveaway posted, simply post something to the effect of "Do not tell people what game this is on the forum" in the giveaway description or the forum post, and if someone does then post it, we will suspend them. This counts as a rule you do not need to ask support for permission for, but you must remember this when you post as we will not suspend retroactively.
Finally, spoiling that there is a puzzle in the first place, such as an apparently nonsense or offtopic post with a single miniscule link in it that links to the puzzle, is a reason for suspension as part of the puzzle was to appear innocuous. That said, puzzle creators, please do not make antagonistic or diguised begging threads. These are sometimes a little too good at their jobs and are likely to be closed by the moderators and may lead to a suspension if we don't think to check for a private giveaway started at the same time. On top of that, to the average user, it can look very real and can lead to a lot of troubling posts and a lot of trouble for the moderators cleaning up the mess.
Regarding leaks, however, be aware of this. Currently, only a couple of the moderators have the power to delete comments. No other moderator can do this. This means that, while we can suspend a leaker, we cannot do anything about the leak unless they are available. To balance this, we generally offer amnesty to a leaker by unsuspending them if they agree to immediately delete all relevant comments.
I hope this clarifies all of your issues and that you all believe this to be the fairest method of solving everyone's issues. Please do not cause drama in this thread either. This was made with the help of puzzle makers to try and reach a fair and balanced policy that minimises the problems for everyone and retains both the creator's rights and the user's freedoms while limiting the moderators' workload. This is hopefully only a temporary solution until we have a better system in place, but until that is the case, consider this policy to be the policy for however long it needs to be.
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