valid reason against it: if the site allows it, the forum will be flooded with ref links. not something i want to see here.
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I already addressed this reason: "Could it be allowed if the OP would make a clear statement about why he is posting a ref link and how the win-win is created?"
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i don't see how that would change anything? people would post their ref links and c&p a short description what both sides gain from it. they would still flood the forum with it. no thanks. ^^
btw, a poll is clearly missing here. ;)
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You seem to miss the point that not every ref link creates a win-win situation. If people would like to flood the forum with ref links, they would do it already.
I was talking about perfectly fine reasoning why a ref link creates value for both sites. The story with Skyrim I talked about had no single downsite
Polls are so mainstream nowadays :x
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well, where do you draw the line? if i post a ref link which gives me 10$ and the guy who clicks it gets only 10 cents, is that still a win-win situation? technically yes, but many would consider it spam anyway.
but ok, let me give you another good reason against it: this would mean quite a lot of extra work for the support members. they would have to check every ref link and see if the benefit for both sides is really there. and we both know, there is more to do here than support is able to handle in a reasonable amount of time. ;)
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That is indeed a valid reason and I can perfectly understand it.
Also the line would not be...well defined, so to say.
I especially picked the skyrim example because you were able to get some copies of the game for free without even paying a cent. See my reply
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your skyrim example is a good one, i'll give you that. but even with such a good deal, i fear everyone would just make their own thread about it, with their own ref link. so when such a deal is on, a significant amount of the current threads would be the ones with ref links. ;)
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Valid reason?
Unless you are an official partner of a store, ref links are a win-win, yes… for the store itself.
And I think the internet has enough pyramid schemes running already.
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I might should have mentioned that you were able to get 4 copies of skyrim for free with the amount of money. If I would have "bought" only 2 copies they had been free aswell.
So aside from some new customer information (which was fake anyway) they gained nothing really.
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I find it amusing how on SG you have like 50 / 50 chance to have either all good replies on your thread, or pure bullshit.
This is one of those, where your thread is obviously flooded with bullshit. None of them bothered to read what you've written, or if they did, none bothered to reply properly.
Yes, I understand some people's concern about spam of ref links. But hey, here's comes a BIG SURPRISE.. People are still posting all kinds of ref links and being blacklisted. People are spamming the non winning threads and more, so?
All this could do is help people get some more games for free or cheap, or help make more giveaways. If it's a referral link for personal need/greed, you have blacklists/suspensions.
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This is one of those, where your thread is obviously flooded with bullshit. None of them bothered to read what you've written, or if they did, none bothered to reply properly.
i think you didn't bother to read my posts, actually...
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I was typing at the moment none of your replies on your first comment were written, but I posted it late because I had to brb. I'll go read them now.
Edit: your points make sense, still, it would be great if some of these threads could be allowed to happen.
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Technically, there could be one topic only for all of these things that are generally forbidden - one topic for ref links, one topic for begging, etc. I remember GOG forums used to have a begging thread - but it was closed because a bunch of lurkers were exploiting the goodness of people.
Since it seems most users are against any of these, I guess it won't work out. You could try forums where ref links are allowed - on CAG for example it still is, to my knowledge.
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Don't understand me wrong, I don't want to post ref links or want to click as many as I can.
I just wanted to get some distinct opinions on the topic especially if the ref link thread is very vital due to the "win-win". I don't know if you remember the scenario I mentioned in my thread.
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Up. I am just a random user, I can't forbid or allow anything here. I told you other forums have or had such things, and to control spam all over SG, these things could work out in separate threads and lead to ban if posted anywhere else. If you are not interested in reading such posts, you won't open these threads and everything else will be the same.
In the same time, that will probably make more work for support who are cluttered with requests already anyway, because once you allow something, even partially, there probably will be a lot to explain, especially to new users.
If you want this to work out, the majority of users have to agree with you, and SG staff to look into this. Seeing that most of the users aren't happy with the idea, I doubt it will ever work. So as I suggested, just try other gaming forums where these things are at least partially allowed.
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The question is how you define "win-win ref" and how you check if it actually is one.
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That is a good question. I didn't thought about the correct definition too well because I had my example in mind where you were able to get some copies of the game for free.
I admit that is a weakness of the concept of allowing refs
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"How" it's just a part of the question. Main question is - WHO would check if the ref is win-win. Moderators are already overloaded, I don't want to put extra work on them.
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I feel you, I have a mousepad for a ref I found here (77 cents IIRC)
but agree with KillingArts, the forum would be heavily spammed
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If there were an entirely separate page dedicated to ref links (think trade section), then maybe we could talk. Because as it is, there is no way to filter posts you don't care to see and I don't care to see ref links everywhere (and that will happen if they were allowed). I believe the forum should be used for discussions and puzzles, and ref links, regardless of win-win, would certainly cheapen the experience.
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Even if a ref link would be 'win-win' each one of them has to be checked if it is a) legitimate and b) really gives the ref link user an advantage. Thus these kind of threads have to be made in a special moderated sub area where threads are checked before being approved to the public. For the few 'win-win' ref links I don't think it's worth it and the support team would spend most of the time just sorting out the 'bad' ref link threads anyway.
tl;dr: It's not worth the hassle to allow a special rule for those 'win-win' ref links.
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Maybe some reflink offers are better than others, but the only way to deal with it in such a big community is to forbid them totally. Most of the time (not to say always), reflink are nothing but ads that profit to the shop (as Talaby said) and, in a smaller way, to the sc%mbag that spread them for personal profit.
If an offer, one day, is really good, it is still possible to talk about it without posting a reflink in the forum. That should not be a problem for people motivated by something else than own benefit :)
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Check the link in my post combined with the skyrim example. I remember the dude getting my people although the deal was not bad at all and some were also thankful.
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Maybe, and as I looked it up, that site linked there seems legit.
Still, when it is a game like Skyrim, which is a) popular (for a reason that is beyond me) and b) the publisher is throwing away keys like candy so they can claim they "sold" 10+ millions of it, then it's easy to see why this is one of the prominent "bait" titles to "give away at a great price" for scammers everywhere.
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I'm against it. If there's a win-win potential, the OP can state that everyone interested can add him/her on Steam to get the ref link.
Here's why I'm against it:
Rules should be able to work in all cases. I f you make complex exceptions (like in this case where there's no 100% definition what the gains have to be on both sides to call it win-win) you attract idiots that try to bend the rules in their favor.
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I think your idea is not that bad to only attract the people interested in it.
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If you want to find deals, including ref deals, there are many other forums or places on the internet you can go to, some of them specifically designed to keep users aware of any offers in their areas of interest.
I hear the arguments about making sure the deal is "win-win", but with so many people whose first language isn't English, it would just heap more work on the moderators.
The "no reflinks" rule is simple, easy to administer and unequivocal. My thoughts are that the forums are a better place with a zero tolerance policy on these. If you are interested in deals, there are other websites you can subscribe to, Steam groups you can join, Facebook pages, etc.
A single reflink thread would become practically unusable with a scrum of greedy users all trying to get their reflink for a particular deal to the top of the thread. It wouldn't work, and would bring out the absolute worst in the absolute worst people. While a few folks will simply want to share a great deal with other users, there are likely to be many, many more who are just greedy ballbags, intent on exploiting the site to make some money for themselves. We saw the enthusiasm which people tried to scam the old CV system with multiple accounts, exploited giveaways, etc.
Do you really want to give these people another toy to play with, and our beleaguered mods even more work to do?
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I don't, I was just asking for opinions, pros and cons. And so far I perfectly understand your points. I think I am thinking to much in the boundaries of my skyrim example. because it was a great deal, some thanked the guy but most trashed him
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From memory, it was a great deal, but the problem is that the mods become the judges in these situations. What if the deal had been for a free copy of Bad Rats, or even 50% off Bad Rats. Where do the mods draw the line? Whose deals get to live and who gets suspended for reflink spamming? It's a can of worms, and I can't imagine there would be a lot of enthusiasm amongst the moderators to open this particular Pandora's Box.
Maybe I'm a cynic, but I suspect that for every user who genuinely wants to share a good deal out of pure altruism, there will be many more who are simply waiting for the opportunity to spam referral links, and will be prepared to debate long and hard about the merits of the particular "deal" they are offering and why the moderators are power-tripping megalomaniacs because they got suspended for their 100th link advertising half price membership to an alligator-porn website.
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The "no reflinks" rule is simple, easy to administer and unequivocal.
Amen.
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What I found really funny is that the guy in the other thread claimed he got 41 copies of Skyrim to give away yet to this day 9 month later did not create a GA for a single one of them. :D
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I remember that, too. I believe he had the copies because a lot of people registered through his ref but I never bought the story of the thousands of giveaways :P Well, maybe he would have made at least one if it weren't for the huge shit storm
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I've been on plenty forums and internet sites and what I can say is that on the majority of these places posting ref links is prohibited and when you still do it it wil get you kicked or banned. If this would be allowed on SG I'm reasonably sure that SG would turn into spamfest of biblical proportions. And another thing against ref links is that mostly only the referal poster and the site that is refered to profit from this, the person clicking on the link will get mostly useless, worthless and low level stuff designed " to pull in " or intice this person to make purchases or more purchases on the ref site. My personal thought is that by not allowing any ref links without any exceptions is the best way to go.
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Personally i am glad SG doesnt need advertisement in the form of ref links in discussions.
Not only would it create way more work for the support/mods but the amount of spam u would get would be ridiculous.
The staff is busy as it is already and should have their focus for the tickets mainly
Despite several people wanting to put ref links for a good reason. U would get a massive amount of people/bots making discussions for all the bad reasons. And it would make the Discussion page a mess despite wanting to put the ref links section in 1 topic u just know that majority of links will end up in other topics.
If i wanted more spam i would join more raffle groups. I prefer those who put ref links in their giveaways or discussions on another place permabanned from SG ;p but thats my opinion
My thoughts when i see this happen
Main Page
Lets play together: discussion 1: So how about the situation with Isis?visitg2a....blablablabla
General: discussion 2 Cheap games i got with Refbullshitlink blabla bla
General: discussion 3 more unwanted ref link
Group recruitment: discussion 4 Barbie games at Hentuireflinkblablabla
General: discussion 5 Hi guys making videos on YT on YTthisnotaYTlinkbutreflinkblablabla
Puzzles: discussion 6 U like puzzles? lots of puzzles at blablabla
General: discussion 7 free games at this site hiddenphishingreflinkbulshit
So to sum it up
The flood of spam would be too much vs those with good intentions
The amount of work for the SG staff would tenfold
Even if u wanted to put the ref links in one section the forum page would turn into a mess due to people not understanding or purposely willing to put ref links in other topics [so it would get a more viewcount probs]
and i geuss majority of these ref link posters wouldn't get much views in the later run as they probably get blacklisted by majority anyways :)
Hope this helped :)
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I think I am always making a false assumption when I think about things like this. I assume most people have brains, some kind of moral and social standards. But you are right..my assumptions are wrong. People would not understand when to and when not to post such a link.
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I assume most people have brains, some kind of moral and social standards.
Lol.
Really, just… lol. Humans were always greedy bastards. We all are. It just depends how much we show it among each other.
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If ref-links were allowed - they would be all around the place. I like discussions to be clean of this stuff.
It's like ants - they are beneficial insects, but I don't like them all over my house.
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So I just had a random thought about the posting of ref links in the discussions. I remembered one topic where someone was providing a ref link which you could use to register to a online shop. For registering through this ref link you received like $5 or $10 credit for the shop.
There was the possibility to combine that with a voucher and you were able to get like 5x Skyrim for less than a dollar by using this technique.
I myself did it without the ref link because it was already removed at the time and still got 3x Skyrim for like $0.79. (or something like this)
I perfectly know that posting ref links in the discussions is not allowed but this one made me think further. You are right, that the OP received a bonus for every one registering through the ref link, but the registrants also received a - not so bad - bonus.
So I ask for your opinions. What do you think about ref links which create a smooth win-win situation for both sites?
What are valid reasons against it? Could it be allowed if the OP would make a clear statement about why he is posting a ref link and how the win-win is created?
EDIT2: The problem with "win-win" is: Where to draw the line? Is getting 10 cents a win for the registrant? Thanks to KillingArts for the hint. I had my example in mind where it was perfectly possible to get 3 or 4 copies of skyrim for free, which could be classified as a "win".
Have fun discussing,
Lex
EDIT: In order to clear the scenario up a bit. This is the follow-up post related to the skyrim topic: http://www.steamgifts.com/discussion/yqlvC/i-thought-i-was-doing-a-favour-4-copies-of-skyrim-for-3-sorry-didnt-know-i-had-broken-a-rule
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