I won't get too upset over it.
As I recall there was a professional music editing software some years ago that took over a year to crack because it was so overladen with DRM.
Well... let's just say that when it was finally cracked, the professional users got angry and sued the company. Not because some kids could now download for free the same software they paid thousands of $$$ each year, but because the cracked version proved to work better then the paid version - over twice as fast. It seems the company was so determined to give pirates the finger - they interlaced the DRM in EVERY part of the program - and gave the finger to their paying customers as well.
I didn't use the software is question, but I still enjoyed the outcome - they were sued for knowingly hindering productivity and selling a defective product on purpose. If only gamers could do same for some of the games out there.
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Professional software are far worse than games.
All hail USB-dongles.
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I've been playing computer games since the 80s. Copy protection, excuse me, the attempt of copy protection was always with us. It never worked for long. Sometimes it took a bit longer, but each and every one of these systems was crackes.
Yes, 80s means VIC-20/C64. Been there, seen that.
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I don't get why do they always say it's uncrackable? It just attracts the attention of people who are actually capable of cracking it. If they didn't gloat how uncrackable it is noone capable would care and if it was a sturdy DRM pirate kids couldn't crack it on their own so it would be a win for the DRM company.
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Even dongles can be emulated. Just look at Cubase.
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I'd say it contributed to its downfall. People heard it's a very bad game and were unable to verify it (no demo, no crack), so weren't interested in buying it.
I downloaded a few pirate copies just to check if the game was worth buying. Guess what, I now own every single of them that I liked (and the rest was like 1-2h on my hdd only). I don't do that anymore, because I have a huge backlog, free weekends and cheap bundles where the risk of spending of bad game is managable.
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I'd say it contributed to its downfall. People heard it's a very bad game and were unable to verify it (no demo, no crack), so weren't interested in buying it.
I downloaded a few pirate copies just to check if the game was worth buying. Guess what, I now own every single of them that I liked (and the rest was like 1-2h on my hdd only). I don't do that anymore, because I have a huge backlog, free weekends and cheap bundles where the risk of spending of bad game is managable.
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Having a game that isn't cracked doesn't mean your DRM is uncrackable, it generally means your game isn't worth cracking to most for one reason or another.
No offense but how many here actually play soccer on PC? That is one of those games that just naturally has a better feel for it on console using their controllers.
If their game commanded any real demand, it would have been cracked.
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Yes and most of them go for the popular games as those are the main ones to compete against. The unpopular ones typically only limited attention unless something brings their attention to it.
If this thread makes it onto a major, mainstream, website and gets major attention, then you will see a decent push to crack it. But some game that most don't care about with a difficult DRM to crack, that typically won't get the attention because cracking it really doesn't get much credit.
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I understand why DRM is made, but I also think it's a futile effort. All DRM is eventually cracked. The one thing I do care about most is how the DRM affects the games performance. I'd love to see devs that use DRM put up videos of their games performance with and without DRM attached.
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No it's not question of IF it's cracked. It's all about WHEN.
Amount of piracy vs when it's cracked
Day Zero? Oh god amount of sales lost
Day One? Oh god amount of sales lost
Day two? Not so much as previous day
Day three? Not so much as previous day
Day four? Not so much as previous day
Day five? Not so much as previous day
Two weeks? Many potential buyers turned into buyers
Four weeks? More potential buyers turned into buyers
Two months? More potential buyers turned into buyers
Six months? Most potential buyers turned into buyers
12+ months? Almost all potential buyers turned into buyers
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Strong anti-piracy measures is a good thing. No Titanic is unsinkable, but that grace period helps ensure that the people who would actually buy it actually have to choose between the purchase or abstaining. Later on when it's cracked, it's not such an issue (as Madjoki beneath me pointed out). It also helps stop big companies from being able to use "OMFG PIRACY" as a cop-out response for when things don't go their way, and might force them to stop and examine the other big factors like how intrusive their DRM may be, what the quality of their game is, and how their customers are being treated / how much trust the potential customers have in them.
And yes, I would be worried that if 'unbreakable' anti-piracy measures became widespread, big companies may start to fuck over their consumers far more rigorously without fear of outright haemorrhaging money.
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That argument has been voided many times.
Publishers always claim any "pirate" would have bought the game. If I think something is worth my money, I'll buy it. If I don't, I won't. If people can't afford the product and resort to piracy, they aren't customers anyway, due to lack of resources.
On the other hand, try before you buy and word of mouth have positive influences always neglected. Rather than trying to exploit the possibilities, publishers have abandoned demos almost entirely in favor of "presentations" filled with nothing but crap (see Colonial Marines E3 for entertainment purpose). They never seem to wonder what makes people hate them and pirate for the sake of doing so.
It's been years since I paid full price for a product. I also hardly ever pirate. I just wait til I get the game for what I think it's worth.
Removing the music in GTA:SA years after with a botched update? K, GTA V is 30€ max now. Bad performance on release? Make it 20.
I do that with every game I'm interested in. Give them what it's worth, not what they want. They want money, I want quality. Spend less on marketing, I can make my own decisions, and more on games, so I want them. Because I don't need them. I have self respect.
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While you have a point about publishers always resorting to piracy as a scapegoat, and what I suggested there was probably just wishful thinking, nothing you said actually voided the fact that some people pirate games even when genuinely interested in them.
I'm familiar with the idea that every pirated copy is not necessarily a lost sale, but there are still people who would make pirating their first choice over paying for a copy, even when genuinely stoked for something and willing to pay for a pre-order or day-one release. There is also the factor of how long someone would wait for a good pirated release before giving up and making a purchase. It's not binary, it's a broad scale from black to white with all kinds of degrees between the two. An anti-piracy measure doesn't need to last forever, it just needs to last long enough to funnel those in the middle-ground in favour of piracy towards an earlier purchase.
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That update is why I decided I want to trade away my inventory copy of GTA Trilogy I've been hanging onto. I have it on PS2 anyway and they'll never force a crappy update on me through there, so I don't know why they had to go and do it through Steam. :/
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Wow I'm sure the sales for FIFA15 will skyrocket to the first place of the charts for the rest of the year now because people can't pirate it. What you say? It won't? Even with this new "uncrackable DRM" that beats even all the uncrackable DRMs from before? Well...I guess...it's time to make a game worth buying then?
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I don't believe that people who pirate the games will stop that cos there's a DRM that will be cracked a week later than the rest of 'em. What people don't understand is that pirates are not potential customers, they are people who will (in most cases) not buy the game period. And if DRM will somehow stop them from playing said game, they will simply ignore the title and move on. Multiplayer titles are exceptions from that rule, of course.
Also, OP..
knowing whether it runs decently
pre-purchasing
Pick one.
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actually pirates buy more then most people think
the reason they do not like pirates is because they can play the game and see that is is trash and not worth buying
but most who pirate would never buy the game regardless so they would not loose out even if they had DRM that could not be cracked as they would just not bother with the game at all
do they think because a DRM can not be cracked that ooh my i can not afford games anyhow but some how since i can not pirate i must buy it and just as many would not buy it even if they can afford it
but the fact is a lot people do pirate the game and still buy it but it just easier to blame a bad with bad sales on piracy
they all blame piracy the movie studios,music,gaming
yet they seem to have no problem turning in billions of profits
GTA V smashed records and made more the any movie in that year
but some how piracy is so damning? GTA V could be pirated on both consoles yet still smashed records so how is piracy killing games
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Pirates are potential customers. Everyone is. I did buy games I... got some other way before that purchase. ;-)
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Maybe no one cares? I mean if it was a bigger game I could see it being cracked fast. Fifa 15... same as 14, 13, 12, 25.
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I truly want an uncrackable DRM so publishers would shut the fuck up about piracy dropping game sales after seeing piracy almost have no effect on sales.
Remember what Edmund McMillen said about piracy ? He's right in every way.Uncrackable DRM will prove it.
P.S. Fifa 15 is terrible.Like really, really terrible.I miss Fifa games before '10.
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The best fifa was World Cup '98. I miss that game :/
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Piracy HAS effect on sales.
But it isn't the one publishers say - every pirate = lost sale. But few % of pirates would go buy games if they couldn't pirate.
I remember one dude on some forums, he spend like whole month whinning about no AssCreed 2 crack, then he said "screw it, I'm going to shop", then after a crack he whinned "why you didn't tell me it will be cracked, I wouldn't buy it". So, Ubisoft made at least one more sale thanks to their always-online DRM - not sure how many they lost, through :P
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"... piracy almost have no effect on sales."
Increase in sales would be 5% at max.If some guy pirates everything and never buys a game, you can't change that no matter what.I know that from my country & friends.But if a guy (like me) rarely pirates (mainly because he has doubts about the game,game has no demo to try etc.) and mostly wait for %66-75 discounts on Steam would NOT pre-purchase a game just because it's uncrackable.
Yeah anyway, I'll wait for reviews on GTA V before buying it.I have no trust left for Rockstar.
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Well, if one $50 game is pirated by 1 million people, then if 5% of them would buy it on release, that's 2 and the half millions dollars companies/shops/etc would made...
But then, it's not that easy as saying people can't pirate, they buy (like devs believe). Most would pirate something else. But I know people who NEVER buy games ("why wait for -75% when I can pirate it today, win it 5 times and spoiler everything to people waiting?") - do you think they would start buying, or would they stop playing at all if there couldn't be any way to pirate?
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It was more about "something inside their brains has already been derailed" - that sounds like pirates are Walthers Whites that are just too busy playing free games, but when that distraction disappears their derailed brain will tell them to go and do some evil things :)
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Pickpocketing takes skill and dedication - it's not for casuals.
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AFAIK piracy does have an effect on sales. A positive one.
Sure, there are people who wouldn't buy some game or other if they could pirate it, but they are for the most part negligible compared to the people who download the game and buy it when they find out they like it. And the effect of "woah, look at how much people pirate this, it must be good" can't be ignored.
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This is true, I played pirate copies of Bioshock 2 (also played a borrowed but legit Bioshock 1), Batman Arkham Asylum, Tomb Raider 2013 (and some of the older ones) and Skyrim, and they're all sitting in my Steam library right now. I can't afford to pay $60 for a game, but at a price that is good for me, I will purchase every game I've pirated and enjoyed.
I know someone else who can afford to pre-order games but usually buys every good title he pirates soon after the release. I myself wouldn't be buying many games if it weren't for Steam with the sales and bundles, I like GOG because of their DRM-Free policy, and will probably move over there if Galaxy turns out nicely.
I really disliked SecuROM, I vowed to not support EA after that, and it is why I haven't bought anything since Mirror's Edge except for the Origin bundle which none of the money went to them. Seems Denuvo is made by the same creators, so I'm going to steer far away from any game containing it. I still have my hard copy of Mirror's Edge, and now I own it both on Origin and Steam, but will rather play a cracked copy than deal with the DRM. Same goes for Assassin's Creed titles. I even got annoyed with Batman Arkham Asylum kicking me out of the game whenever my internet cuts (I have a fault with my line so it does it several times a day for about a minute), and played the cracked version before I decided to deal with the occasional kick-outs.
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Not sure how person who plays nearly everything while paying nothing is a positive effect on sales.
Yes, there are tons of people who pirate one game to check if they like it. But I wouldn't call them pirates, because they usually have money already prepared for game, they just took one extra precaution. But that's because developers are dumb idiots who believe (know?) demo versions can kill all that hype they created...
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I cannot stop wondering at these sport sims. How do they manage to sell essentially the same game year after year by increasing a number in the title? Their biggest problem shouldn't be the pirating, but people refusing to buy (n+1)th game if the already have (n)th and waiting for (n+2)th instead.
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Because their focus group seems to care entirely about the roster they see on TV (not implying they'd ever do sports themselves, no wai) and not about the game. They might as well just sell a DLC update for the roster but you can't sell DLC at 70$ right now so they just slap a new number on the leftovers and deliver a patch for the roster.
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There isn't a such thing as uncrackable. GTA IV had like 4 layers of DRM and it still got cracked. Ubisoft's "requires a constant internet connection to play" was cracked. Everything gets cracked eventually.
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No single-player offline game is uncrackable; it's just not possible. If they put the code on your computer and want to run it, then they also have to include a way to decrypt it, which can be reverse-engineered and used to produce a crack.
What they can do is make cracking it a pain in the ass, which might result in nobody cracking it.
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i just realize that you already wrote about the same stuff as i did below. xD
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does anyone know, if diablo 3 was ever cracked?
i believe it wasn't. that's the ultimate copy protection. let half the game run on servers, and you're good to go. ^^
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no, it definitely was not cracked at launch. there was a basic server emulation, but a lot was missing (like NPC's, enemies... ^^). that's not what i would consider cracked (and playable).
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Pirates dont bother to crack games which have less interest or multiplayer. You will find lot of Indie games being released how many of them will you find are being cracked!
Be whatever the DRM it is still made by a human, so it can always be cracked.
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i am not sure that you understood how diablo 3 works. it is a singleplayer or coop game. and even if you play it alone, a lot of the content runs on the blizzard servers. a "crack" would need a complete server emulation. and this emulation would need to provide all the assets that are not included in the local client (which is a lot). that's why there is no crack available (at least not to my knowledge). diablo 3 is not a multiplayer game. it is a singleplayer and coop game. and there is a lot of interest in that game. and still there is no fully working crack...
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And this is why although I played Diablo 1 & 2 through the ages of about 8-13, I won't buy or play Diablo 3. I never bothered with the multiplayer and never needed to be online, now not being able to play a game I bought if I don't have an internet connection is a load of bull, I'll stick to 1 & 2.
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how often do you have no internet connection? i have internet all the time. the last time i lost connection was over a year ago, and that was for like an hour during night. ^^
i would prefer being able to play offline, of course. but i dont mind always on games too much, since i really have internet all the time. and for the majority of customers it is the same.
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I tried Diablo 3 and won't buy or play it for the same reason as ragethekilljoy. If I'm forced to play a single-player game on some distant server, I'll just play something else that runs locally. I don't care if my internet connection will have no issue 99% of the time, there's always going to be that one time when you feel like playing and it will fail due to an Internet outage or a server issue. There's no shortage of better game out there so I'm not missing it at all.
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There is hardly any interest because the audience does not want to play alone on emulated servers and the crackers don't really care about a game that's gonna be pretty worthless because of it's architecture.
Still, if Error 37 and the tanking of an entire IP is the ultimate DRM to you...
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he meant games that are not interesting to the people, of course. not that the cracked versions might be uninteresting, because they dont work...
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FIFA 15 has yet to be cracked and I have to say this is incredibly impressive. Not that I'm a big fan of DRM, especially terrible ones like GFWL, but to have a game that is uncrackable for over 1 and a half month is just downright impressive.
I believe it will be cracked one day, but this DRM seems to be much more effective than whatever Steam has to offer.
Not that it concerns me since I've long stopped pirating thanks to Steam. So praise GabeN for cheap games and may it last an eternity!
Anyways back to my point, should we start worrying about companies screwing us over or should we rejoice that pirates won't be able to get stuff that we paid for?
P.S GTA V was rumored to use Denuvo DRM, this has since been proven false. As long as it runs decently(aka better than GTA IV) and doesn't use GFWL, GTA V should be a purchase for me.
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