I'm not sure you know how the family sharing feature works.
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Spain is in Europe, they are generally white sir/Ma'am.
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"Gilipollez" means bullshit, it could be "tontería" too.
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This either sounds like a really bad scamming attempt or a legitimate sharing system from a generous person.
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The problem with this is that since it's technically your account, what's to stop you from revoking other people's access to the account if say, they annoyed you or if they disagreed with your idea? Whats to stop you from hogging the library and intruding upon other people's time? They can't do anything about it since they can't leave the group or else they'd lose their $10. And you never breached the topic if you'll refund people if you kick them out if for any reason you deem it to be so.
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So many cheapasses demanding people to provide a service for free. No, it will not be free. Every member must contribute.
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Fortunately, my banks dont agree with you.
I use my true photo and true name. By default, it is much safer to trust someone like me, right?
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^This
Maybe you don't understand the concept of internet where everything is anonymous. There's no way we can tell if you're telling the truth or not. I can say I'm Bill Gates but does that mean I am? I can say I'm a reclusive billionaire that the world does not know of but does that mean I really am a billionaire?
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You dont need to trust me if you dont want.
What matters is I know I am telling the truth.
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There is no situation. And if there was one, you are not a part of it. The project is a closed system and has nothing to do with any outsider.
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You are right. If they don't trust me, don't join. And on the other hand, if I don't trust them, I won't accept them either.
As I always say, trust is mutual. I will only share this library with someone I can mutually trust.
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I'm going to go out on a limb and say that if you check the TOS charging people to be on your friends and family list is against the rules.
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It is not a charge. They have full access to the games bought with the 10 bucks.
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Say what you want, it's just like a security deposit except that it's for "renting" a library.
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If it is against the TOS, donate to a charity and show me the proof.
I dont need that 10 bucks. I just want members to contribute, to the group or to the world.
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According to the Steam Subscriber Agreement, it's not allowed:
You may not sell or charge others for the right to use your Account, or otherwise transfer your Account, nor may you sell, charge others for the right to use, or transfer any Subscriptions other than if and as expressly permitted by this Agreement (including any Subscription Terms or Rules of Use).
Even if it's a donation to charity, it's still required to join the group... which makes it a fee.
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It says that we're not allowed to charge for the right to let others use our subscriptions (i.e. games). That's exactly what the new Steam library sharing is all about, letting other people use our "subscriptions"/games.
Sure, you could say that the money is ONLY for the privilege of being on his friendlist and has nothing to do with the library sharing... I guess that would technically be allowed but I very much doubt Steam would see it that way.
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It could be argued that this isn't actually the way subscriptions work on Steam. If I were in his group, I wouldn't be using his subscriptions. I would be using my subscriptions AND a new privilege as a Steam user. Steam is allowing me access to other people's libraries without actually giving me any rights/ownership/etc of their games/subscriptions. It's rather murky, mostly because I don't think they would want to consider this new plan to actually allow multiple ownerships.
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Your new privilege as a Steam use consist solely of using other's people subscriptions. Which is precisely what you can't charge people for according to SSA. Ergo, ipso facto columbo oreo it can't be argued.
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Whatever the legalities, if Valve didn't like what he was doing, his account would be banned long before any lawyers got involved.
As far as Steam accounts go, Valve are judge, jury and executioner, and getting any such decision reversed would probably be a lengthy struggle, akin to pushing several hundred gallons of water uphill using only a toothbrush...
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It is basically a closed group based on trust and friendship. And I don't demand members to pay me USD10 before they join. They can contribute their share anytime they want because I want to trust my members and want them to trust me too. The bottomline is that everyone must somehow contribute.
So this group is particular suitable for students who do not have too much money at the moment and really want to play games. But I'm not responsible for their academic results.
Anyway, I will build this library from now. The account is aiyori_org. You may watch it grow steadily if you wish.
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Haha, I think you are going to get your account banned if you are collecting money - for any purpose- instead of Valve. I am not sure how they would find out, but you can also get account banned for actions of any member using it according to the FAQ.
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I have a few questions and points to say about your original post.
"But to avoid the risks of account ban due to card fraud, I do not accept key or gift donations. "
Most likely you won't get your account banned if the person who buys the game claims gift fraud. Most likely, the person who buys the game is banned from what I've read.
"If agreed by all members, we can groupbuy / group-preorder expensive games. "
From what I'm reading from this, to get into the group, people have to pay $10, then whenever the group decides to buy a game, everyone has to chip in too? There's three way this could proceed: majority/super majority, plurality, or has to be complete majority. I don't think that the idea of everyone agreeing is a good thing. People have their own favorite genres that they like playing and probably won't like contributing if it's a game they don't want which could mean a "filibuster" of some sort. If it's majority/super majority/plurality, I don't see a reason why the people who don't want the game have to pay for it. But then there's the chance that they will play it later even if they didn't want it when the group decided to buy it, but also the chance that they'll never play it even after the game is in the shared library. Also, what if the group decided to buy a game/pre-purchase and later found out that it can't be shared?
"Each member should be preferably from different time zones. The prime game time of 9pm to midnight should not collide. "
Will there be a schedule? Will un-used gametime carry over from each day? Not everyone has 4 hours a day to play games with and not everyone is available at 9-midnight. Some have late night shifts/overtime at work, some people have school/college or have some test to study for. How will you stop people from bypassing the aforementioned 4 hours if there's no one to report it/bring it up?
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Thanks for your reply.
I will abide by the rules while saving the account from potential risks. I dont need that 10 bucks, just wanting members to contribute. They may just donate 10 bucks to Red Cross and show me the proof.
We were on the verge of WW3. I just want to use this system to advocate international friendship.
Schedules are open to discussion. I sincerely want everyone happy.
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Despite your "good intentions"(I put it in parenthesis since we can't really ascertain if that's the truth or not), I doubt a small group of 7 people sharing a gaming library will prevent WW3 unless they happen to be leaders of the world superpowers.
Also, although it advocates international friendships, more or less people will only have an impartial relation to each other except when trying to get a better time to play games if not outright hatred since some people might be only able to play at a certain time which other people also need.
I might seem pessimistic here but your utopian view of this steam sharing function doesn't look like it'll work.
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Are you saying that out of millions of Steam users I cannot find 6 people to fit in six four hour time slots around the clock? Frankly speaking I can already do it with my current friend list.
And yes, you are too pessimistic.
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It's a nice idea, I see one potential problem though.
You said you wouldn't accept games in case of fraud getting the account in trouble but, that's not all you need to worry about.
It's been stated that an account could get its sharing privileges revoked if one of the borrowers is caught cheating on one of the borrowed games.
Just make sure you check these people out thoroughly and get to know them as well before steam sharing is up and running.
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I play today from 6 pm till 8 pm, I better finish playing before deadline cause Bob plays from 8 pm till midnight and kicks me at 08.00.01. But it's okay as tomorrow I have from 4pm till 9pm.
I'm a busy man with tight schedule
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Two main issues (imho) with this:
First off, it's heavily reliant on everyone trusting you - they pay the $10 with no actual guarantee of refund, they contribute games to your account (as per your terms), and ultimately if you decide to disband the group or kick them all out, you can keep the ~$70 dollars in addition to any games people contribute to what is legally speaking your account.
Second, designating select 3hr periods in which a person can actually use the account is impractical for those involved - what if they have other commitments or are busy at their per-determined time, but want to play games at another time? And whats to stop one person from going over the 3hr limit?
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Trust is mutual. While they entrust me with their 10 bucks, which they can donate to a charity if they wish, I entrust them with an account of 300 games, which is worth much more than $70. If one of them cheat, I suffer the most.
As for designated game time, things are open for discussion.
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How exactly you entrust them your account? Family Share doesn't mean you give a bunch of people your login and password, it means you merely allow certain Steam ID's to view and use your game library. I.e. they can do jack shit to that account other than to play the games on it.
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If they cheat, my account loses the privilege of sharing.
This is a trust much bigger than 10 bucks, considering we are talking about an account of 300 to 500 games.
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That would punish the ones who cheated since they lose access to the account. As for you, you'd still have that account plus all the games other people donated will still be available to you. How's that detrimental for you?
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I have 6xx games, just like you, and dont need any game donation. I do this so that other poor people can play their fav games, not because I am begging people for games.
So you think it wont do any damage to your account if it is labelled as Family Sharing Banned? If so, please let me get yours labelled and I pay you $70. Is it a deal?
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If people donate x value of games to your account, you are the sole legal owner of those games, and they merely have the opportunity to share them with you, at pre-designated times. At any time, you can kick these people from the Family Sharing group, keeping any games they have given you, with no repercussion.
If one of them cheats, you kick them, and that's the end of that - if you cheat them, they suffer, and you have x new games and $70 dollars. You never suffer in any of this, and hold absolute power. Like I said, the pre-designated times are impractical, but it's not impossible to find 7 people who'd agree to a draconian arrangement like that. The main issue is still them trusting you, and the potential for you to abuse said trust with no repercussion. If you do, there is nothing they can do about it, nor any punitive measure they can take. Basically, you can F*** them over whenever you want, and there's nothing they can do.
Why anyone would pay you $10 and buy games for your account, to play at set times, when they could just buy games for themselves without the time restraint and concern of losing it all whenever you decide to pull the plug, is beyond me.
"The USD10.00 will be refunded if I finally want to disband the group, which is unlikely." Even so, what about all the money they could potentially spend on games for your account? And if you ban them, without the refund - on what grounds would you justify kicking someone from the group?
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Yes, I think it won't do any damage to an account labeled Family Sharing Banned other than inability to share games with other people.
Basically you ask people to trust you on the pledge of the word in a situation where you risk nothing and they can lose everything and won't be able to hold you liable. Further still, since it'll be your secondary account, should anything go awry it won't affect your primary account in any way, shape or form.
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As far as I can see, this system/concept/project of yours is built with trust, respect, and honor.
The problem will be finding users who will do the three point I said above. It's hard enough to find those kind of person by F2F, let alone in online communities.
Number 1 will be easy to do, at first (that is if you could make them trust you first AND you are as trustful). That is until anyone breach number 2 or number 3 which easily broken. Any breach on number 2 or 3 will lower the trust value.
IF you could get a handful of trusted people who will honor the agreement, this system will be amazing. It will be though at first since you need to weed out the users who breaking the rules and agreement again and again and uncooperative while at the same time keeping the one who are respecting the rules around and convinced them to stay.
If you managed to get through all that, you MAY or may not finally get a group of good and nice people. How long this will take? I don't know it's all depends on your luck mostly since there will be a LOT of applicant want to join this.
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It's a broken system...You'll need family/trusted friends only.Because I doubt a stranger will dump money in his account instead of their own.Since it wouldn't be in their interest to buy a game and be able to play it only during a certain time.People are not always on schedule with everything.Maybe in the morning before work/school he wants to play something then after he comes home he wants to play another thing.
So yeah..unless he takes that 10 dollar fee or whatever..I don't see this going far for anyone.
edit : also some games do not have the save option so you must reach a check point.If you get kicked out you lose all your progress.Again not something you would want to pay for.
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Building the library is the most difficult part.
I will do this part anyway. It may cost a grand or two.
I know many kids here do not have credit cards or paypal, and thus are forced to see bundles after bundles get past them. Someone has got to help them. And I am this someone. They can contribute their share when they have money later.
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Resorting to "Think of the children" argument, aren't we?
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I dont know how to prove my innocence. Sorry.
I will just do whatever i think is right.
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This guy is a hero of the modern world. He showed incredible charity to poor children without games. His name shall be remembered for ages. May God bless his soul.
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This guy is a hero of the modern world. He showed incredible charity to poor children without games. His name shall be remembered for ages. May God bless his soul.
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"It may cost a grand or two. "
Let's see...in your original post you said "I myself will contribute about 200 games, mainly past bundled games". Bundles usually give about 10 games for $5, sometimes less. At $5 for 10 games, it'll cost $100 and it'll cost $200 for $5 for 5 games.
Let's just say it's $200 then. Are you really going to contribute the other $1800 or were you trying to persuade us to take the non-sale value of the bundled games?
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I also wrote
I will buy non-bundled games heavily during Xmas sale and the next summer sale too. So finally the library should contain around 400 to 500 games. Don't worry about the volume.
I think I am clear enough.
2k is about one week of my income. I think it is affordable. May as well just treat it as doing voluntary work for a week.
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2K a week? Let me express my incredulity at that comment. Just wondering, what job is it that you do that gives you $50/hour?
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1k a week is very common in Hong Kong. And I need to work two jobs.
I am a teacher at day time and a published textbook writer at night on royalty basis.
So it is not 50 an hour. I need to work long hours and sometimes even weekends. It is close to $35 an hour.
But since the writing job is on royalty basis, even if I stop working now, I can still make about 4k a month until the sales drop to near zero, eg the subject is cancelled.
And you are from California. Wages over there should be more or less this level, right?
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Well minimum wage in the US is about $7.50. I'm from Indiana, so I don't know if California typically has higher wages than us, or how old/qualified/etc. CombatWars is. But generally, $35/hour is really damn good in the US. I'd say typical would be more around $8/h for students, and generally around $15-$20/h for adults? -shrugs-
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This may be because one of my jobs is royalty based. And I am a fast writer. I think I could make much more if I were published in the US as the market over there is much bigger than Hong Kong. But the sad truth is that my key subject is English language. I just don't have any market value over there.
The minimum wage in Hong Kong is as low as USD3.8. But the gap between high income group and low income group is staggeringly big, which is good, as people can earn high salary and buy cheap service at the same time. And the tax here is around 16% only. So I may have some extra cash to do crazy projects.
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In that case there is no reason for you to not to like it, because you won't need to share your account details to anyone.
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The idea itself is really good actually. I would however be very careful when picking the members, since the whole idea of the group is based completely in trust and respect, something not so commonly seen on the internet (or even here in some cases).
That said, i wish you the best.
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You will not get any respect here if you dont give away keys.
Most of those who criticize my idea have over 500 games. They never need my service. Why do they even care?
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I know, but remember that some people do it for the sake of enlarging their e-penis, some do it because they get access to their daddy's CC, and some others do it because they actually enjoy giving away things.
Personally, i'm not criticizing the idea, i like it actually; i wouldn't participate because of what you said, i have no need to have a shared account. Some others criticize it for their own reasons, some of these may be understandable (you don't exactly have a reputation here, given by your account, which can be seen as just another dude trying to abuse someone else's generosity for example), and some not so much.
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I dont need e-penis as my real member is okay at 6 inches and a half. Big enough for a Chinese man.
This one, please dont ask me for proofs. It sounds gay.
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You are not a girl. And I am not gay. I cannot scam you on this one, right?
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You're being extremely defensive -something that again, does not help with your cause- i'm not asking you for proof, i'm just pointing the inflection points in your idea, and the possible flaws it could have. It's called constructive criticism.
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Dude, I love getting my e-penis so big and then throwing it around. It's the highlight of my day.
...I really don't know why, but the thought of an e-penis amuses me. You know what they say..."Speak softly and carry a big stick."
I really don't know how much my comment contributed, but I'm exhausted. You know. From lugging my e-penis around all day. It's such a chore, I don't know how you guys can handle it. Mine's not nearly as big as others' I've seen, though.
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+1
Nothing screams "internet domination" like a e-dickslap...
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I am planning to build a shared library of around 300 games that can be used by around 7 friends from different time zones, that is, when the Family Sharing feature is beyond beta.
The rules are:
The group is called 7 Men Group. 7 members, including me. Girls are most welcome despite the group name.
The library is independent of my main account. So my game time will not affect yours. The other six members are entitlted to around 4 hours of game time every day. When I want the shared library for, say, local coop with my son, each member will have around 3.5 hours of game time, which, I think, is more than enough.
I myself will contribute about 200 games, mainly past bundled games, including Saint Row the Third, Dead Space, Men of War, King's Bounty, etc. I will buy non-bundled games heavily during Xmas sale and the next summer sale too. So finally the library should contain around 400 to 500 games. Don't worry about the volume.
Each member must contribute USD10.00 to join. This is not a service charge or member fee, as I would use the money to buy games and provide detailed accounting reports, i.e. how much I have received and how much I have spent on which games. And contributors choose which games to be added. As the main contributors of over 200 games, I demand other members to contribute some games. But to avoid the risks of account ban due to card fraud, I do not accept key or gift donations. Please understand. The USD10.00 will be refunded if I finally want to disband the group, which is unlikely. But it is not refundable if members decide to quit.
Donating 10 bucks to a charity and then showing me the proof is also acceptable. This, of course, is not refundable.
Each member should be preferably from different time zones. The prime game time of 9pm to midnight should not collide. So actually it is possible to have 8 members. But the empty slot serves as a buffer in this case.
The 24 x 7 = 168 hours play time is equally shared by all members according to a pre-agreed schedule. Remember to save your games 15 minutes before timeout.
More members can be accepted if some only need, say, one or two hours every day.
If agreed by all members, we can groupbuy / group-preorder expensive games.
Since this group is by default international, no racism or nationalism. If you particularly hate white, black, Hispanic, Jewish or Asian people, please don't disturb.
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