This is a serious question.

I am a male (or at least I'd like to believe so) human, and so I find it hard to relate to women. I'll be honest, I don't understand women. And hoping to extend what writing skills I might have, I decided to read feminist opinions on media.

After that, I understand what females don't like. I am still rather clueless concerning what they do.

In my opinion, most "good" examples of female characters don't exactly extend much further than "action hero without a dick". I don't mean this in an offensive way, but I just don't understand why these characters are "women" as opposed to "men". I just want to understand and learn what sorts of characters females can relate to and enjoy reading/listening/watching/playing about.

Obviously, this question extends much farther than video games.

So let's see what sort of words we get. Thanks!

Edit: So can I guess that the general consensus is that for the most part, gender is interchangeable? Because I think I can understand that.

1 decade ago*

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You know what the Bechdel test is right? Fiction that has two named female characters that talk to each other about something other than a man. Seems really simple, but only about half the films that have been nominated for the best picture oscar pass it. In the past week, do you know how many conversations I've had with other females that were entirely about men in our lives and nothing else? Zero. That has happened zero times. If you want to write a female protagonist that's relatable, the best advice I can give you is find a way to have her naturally interact with other females. You know, like she's human.

Edit: Related note, the amount of times in my life I've taken an immediate and open dislike to a woman I've just met because I'm instantly convinced she's trying to steal my man? Also zero.

1 decade ago
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You're in the wrong place, there is no women on the internet.

1 decade ago
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Deleted

This comment was deleted 5 years ago.

1 decade ago
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I'll tell you that I loved playing as Elizabeth in Burial at Sea. I found the gameplay a bit shitty, but seeing her struggle to use these loud ass weapons or looking for Booker's help was actually great. Most FPS games just make the protagonist look like some professional killer to keep the action up, while being the hero quickly gets boring.

1 decade ago
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There isn't really one specific answer (beyond some of the same things that make a good male protagonist, like well-fleshed out, good dialog, good character design, believable, etc). On top of this, different people have different reasons for wanting to see more variety in their protagonists... but it might be more helpful to look at the problem.

The issue is that there are relatively few female protagonists in games overall, and when there are female characters, they tend to get a much narrower slice of roles than male characters. This isn't exclusively an issue with gender; protagonists tend to be, disproportionately, white straight males between the ages of 18-25, which not-so-incidentally corresponds to the group of customers with the most disposable cash. When the overwhelming majority of games are that way, it makes the genre feel more niche and starts to seem repetitive, like -- well, like it's aimed primarily at teenage boys and young males. This is why the "action hero without a dick" character archetype you referenced isn't enough, too -- obviously there's nothing wrong with taking a stereotypically male character concept, making them female, and then using them with no other changes, but if that's the only female protagonist you ever see than you haven't solved the core problem, because there's still no variety.

As a general rule, it's nice to see games (with modern or historical settings) acknowledge that the world gives people different experiences based on their race, gender, and so on. Making gender or race have no impact on your character at all seems egalitarian, but it's like that Stephen Colbert joke about "I don't see race." I mean, if you're Mass Effect and writing in a distant future utopia, it might make sense for race and gender to have little impact, but players will notice if you write every single modern-setting female protagonist as if they had a male protagonist's experiences and acculturation.

1 decade ago
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Quick answer: There isn't any, at least not any more.
You used to be able to create great believable female protagonists. But I would argue you cannot, any longer. A protagonists cannot be both interesting/a good protagonists and also perfect (morally, intellectually, etc.).

There was a great Sherlock adaptation with a female Watson (it is actually quite an obvious choice) years ago, but I predicted how Elementary (2012-) would never work back before the pilot (Watson [as a female], absolutely had to be portrayed as more intelligent/stable/good than Sherlock). Which leads us to what we have now, a dependant, whiny, childish, Sherlock with occasional visions of brilliance, completely dependant on the genius, together, beautiful, Watson, who solves mysteries that Sherlock cannot.

I don't particularly recommend this video/channel, but here is a clip talking about similar things (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAoxZjat7fc#t=269), it takes a little while to get to the point.

1 decade ago
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"You used to be able to create great believable female protagonists. But I would argue you cannot, any longer."

Wow.

1 decade ago
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lolwtf +1

1 decade ago
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I don't get what the big deal about female and male protagonists is. Who the hell cares? E.g. as a woman who loves Mass Effect and prefers femShep for the sole purpose I think it fits better (I have a tendency to pick female characters though, probably because I find women pretty - it's a plus for character customization, gives me more pleasure that way - and because I'm a female myself. However, in Dragon Age, I think a male would fit the role better, despite the fact that I like to put some of myself in the romances and so, I rather play as a female for that purpose).

But, seriously, why is this so important? It's good to have female heroines here then, I mean, IT MAKES SENSE and it's good to vary as well. But doing it for the sole purpose it upsets feminists whatsoever? The same thing that makes female heroines a "heroine" is what makes a male hero a "hero", I'd say.

1 decade ago
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I can tell you what does NOT make a good female character in my O'Pig Nion, and that would be the one who goes on and on about how terrible, despicable and revolting men are. I mean, most people suck and that is an incontrovertible fact nobody worth their salt would ever argue against, but that is regardless of their gender.

Besides being a very cheap way to attract the attention of a certain kind of public (and regrettably as almost any other cheap, revolting way to attract attention, it almost always works), it does contribute to cementing the idea that men are inherently worse than women, while in truth I'd be hard pressed whether it is men or women that are most appalling, what I know though, is they might present their flaws and ugliness in different ways.

People should be evaluated on their own, and not because of any label that is attached to them. Maybe this would be an interesting, if not entirely original, concept to build a character around, be it man or woman.

1 decade ago
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I don't know what women want when for example protagonists like the one of 50 shades of gray is accepted

1 decade ago
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What the fuck, it isn't rocket science-- simply present both men and women as three-dimensional characters. Who cares about characters that are straight surface stereotypes? You're thinking way too hard about it, if you read about feminism you know it is simply the idea of treating both genders equally and realizing they also live equally (although actual treatment is a whole other matter). Women aren't some alien species whose motives and world-perception are things to be deciphered or interpreted.

1 decade ago
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Oh god...

1 decade ago
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*goddess :P

1 decade ago
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lol bwahaha. you think male protagonists should be treated as humans?

its better with the whole "chew gum kick ass" stuff

1 decade ago
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just write a regular good protagonist and slap tits on without altering the costume to display them excessively? why does everybody have to make a big thing about this?

1 decade ago
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I don't know, but i think for example Jill in RE3 was more badass than many male protagonist of the RE series because nemesis (awesome antagonist).

1 decade ago
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You should read some of Octavia Butler's works. She does a great job of writing female protagonists. I love her Xenogenesis/Lilith's Brood trilogy. Its some great sci-fi writing with a refreshing perspective (coming from a pasty guy).

1 decade ago
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Balls of steal.

(In all seriousness I think the new Tomb Raider did ok, actually for people in general sex aside, felt human).

1 decade ago
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It depends on what you're going for. One strategy is to create a blank slate for the player to fill in. It's perfectly valid. In that case, you really don't have to do anything in the way of characterization. It's been done with male protagonists for many years now.

1 decade ago
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A lot of good advice here, i will add 1 thing... It largely depends on the world you are creating, if its based off reality; then where and when its set will make a big difference. Contemporary women are much different than those from the mid 20th century and even more so the further you go back. The culture in which they live will influence heavily on who they are and how they behave. If you make more of a fantasy setting then the rules are much more arbitrary and malleable.

1 decade ago
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Closed 1 decade ago by dymoblade.