This is a serious question.

I am a male (or at least I'd like to believe so) human, and so I find it hard to relate to women. I'll be honest, I don't understand women. And hoping to extend what writing skills I might have, I decided to read feminist opinions on media.

After that, I understand what females don't like. I am still rather clueless concerning what they do.

In my opinion, most "good" examples of female characters don't exactly extend much further than "action hero without a dick". I don't mean this in an offensive way, but I just don't understand why these characters are "women" as opposed to "men". I just want to understand and learn what sorts of characters females can relate to and enjoy reading/listening/watching/playing about.

Obviously, this question extends much farther than video games.

So let's see what sort of words we get. Thanks!

Edit: So can I guess that the general consensus is that for the most part, gender is interchangeable? Because I think I can understand that.

1 decade ago*

Comment has been collapsed.

Women are sexy.

1 decade ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

Deleted

This comment was deleted 5 years ago.

1 decade ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

bewbs

1 decade ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

Both men and women are capable of being bad ass. The primary reason male protagonists are so much more common is because the majority of gamers are male and therefore find a male character easier to relate to. No man on this planet truly understands women and vice versa.

1 decade ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

I personally don't care if the protagonist is male or female, as long as they're like able, or relatable in some way.

1 decade ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

I personally prefer female characters because it's a nice change from all the bog standard voice actors out there. Also, I wouldn't normally associate a female character with the genres that I like. So that's something different in a good way.

coughTroyBakercoughcoughNolan North
1 decade ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

The primary reason male protagonists are so much more common is because game developers/screenwriters/cartoonists are mostly men, so they don't have a clue about women characters, either :D ;)

1 decade ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

I agree!

1 decade ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

Gay porn, boys' love,... Add these and I'm sure many will read it :v All my female friends like these kinds of things.

1 decade ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

Dear men: what makes a good male protagonist? Oh wait, women are qualified to answer that question, too.

However, you sound more like you're looking for a hero through the lens of feminism. Thing is, there are a million brands of feminism, just like there are a million shades of belief for any ideology. One kind of feminist might praise Faith from Mirror's Edge, while another might be offended by the way she takes directions from a man. Another type of feminist might not hold Faith as an ideal because in many respects she is a reactive hero rather than taking matters into her own hands (not that many proactive heroes exist in gaming to begin with.) We could look at it through a kaleidoscope of different feminist lenses, just as we could look at it through a bevy of marxist or humanist or nihilist lenses. Those are all great flavor and great perspectives for telling stories, but they can be problematic when trying to grasp at the One True Definition of an action hero.

In my own personal opinion, "action hero without a dick" isn't far off. The problem is that your phrasing implies that action heroes are by default men. And while that is de facto true across the entire population of action heroes, it's not an egalitarian way to look at things. Consider an action hero. What color is the hero's hair? We don't know. Is there a default? I don't think so. Should there be a hair color that typifies heroism? That sounds silly. Just assume any type of person can be an action hero in their own way. Gender is just another thing that describes the hero (n.b. that doesn't mean gender is pointless - just like sexuality shouldn't figure into a default action hero, they should probably still have one, if you're the one telling the story. And that gender or sexuality or religion or whatever should either figure into the story or be so totally unimportant that you don't spend any time on it.)

Rambo is an action hero with a speech impediment. Chell is an action hero without socks. Gordon is an action hero with glasses. Advance Wars' Rachel is an action hero with red hair. Don't assume there are any defaults.

1 decade ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

You know what. You're right. Modern media has conditioned me to believe that the white male is the default character from which everyone else is added or subtracted from. I mean, I'm Asian, and even then, I look at my writing and see an abundance of white males, because I live in a society that idolises these ideals, whether we like it or not.
I guess it's kind of hard to radically change my deepest philosophies when I haven't even being consciously thinking about them for all my life.

1 decade ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

What's ironic about it is that white males are a minority of the human population.

1 decade ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

But they are a wide majority of the top richest humans.

1 decade ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

And you'd never possibly think of a male protagonist who's African and overweight because most likely everyone would be focused on the fact he's not a male thin white dude. Just an example.

1 decade ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

"In my opinion, most "good" examples of female characters don't exactly extend much further than "action hero without a dick". I don't mean this in an offensive way, but I just don't understand why these characters are "women" as opposed to "men"."

That already shows the root of your problem. Stop looking at women as some sort of radically different species. What do you mean WHY the character is a woman? Why are you a male? Why am I a female? Because that's just what we are. Why does the female character have to be something different than what a good male character is? She doesn't. The same elements that make a good male character still goes into making a good female character. Why do you have to look at the female character as being an "action hero without a dick"? Why not just an "action heroine"? Or why not just a "protagonist"?

Fun fact: Lara Croft was originally a man but since the character resembled Indiana Jones too much they changed the character to a female. Both characters are very successful and popular. That's a pretty good example of how the same elements can go into creating a good male and female character.

Just stop viewing women as being so different. We're not. We like the same things in people as men do: courage, perseverance, kindness, intelligence...etc, etc.

1 decade ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

There are actual sociological reasons as to why men and women are different. They involve the inherent differences between males and females in nature. Females have the best chance of passing on their genetic material by creating a stable environment for their children, while men simply attempt to impregnate as many females as possible. This leads to a more inquisitive nature in men, and a more studious nature in women. Consider the inability of many men in keeping still. There are far more diagnosed ADD males than females. After looking at what I've presented, it makes sense that most action heroes are men. Lara Croft was a novelty. She's not interchangeable with a man, she's special in that she is an adventurous individual of the female gender. Part of what made her commercially viable was her sex appeal, admittedly, but also because she appealed to female gamers, who confine themselves less to traditional feminine values.

1 decade ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

I'm not saying men and women are exactly the same. But when it comes to being a good, complex human being, it takes the same qualities. As for Lara, I'm again, not saying her sex is interchangeable. After all the development of her character after initial conception, of course her sex isn't interchangeable. I'm saying the same things that can make a good male protagonist can go into making a good female protagonist. It's this idea that a female character needs to show certain characteristics (like the ability to be "badass without a man") that limits female characters. Instead of being filled with interesting personality traits they're often just portrayed, time and time again, as "Badass female" or "damsel in distress".

And while I've studied those reasons for males and females to act different, it would be stupid to try to apply that to all the people in the world. Especially considering that humans have long since progressed passed just being focused on survival and procreation. Not to say that those traits don't exist anymore, they certainly do. But we are increasingly stepping out of those boundaries set by the old time need to survive and that should be reflected in the media.

1 decade ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

I'm tired of the generic roles that all characters are portrayed as, male or female. Women in video games are either feeble or "strong," and men have about the same level of dimension to them as well, with the only axis being the nerd/jock scale.

1 decade ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

I'm a guy, but reading this article almost a year ago forever after made me notice the "strong" adjective as the defining trait many character writers automatically go for when creating a female lead, and how weird that word would be when applied to many male leads.

1 decade ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

Hey, I read that too! Seems to be one of those "major" articles that gets blown around often.

1 decade ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

As long as she looks cool, well-designed, and not meant to be sexual appeal, I'm fine with it. I just hate it when people design female characters wearing as little as stone age people, and with oversized boobs etc.

1 decade ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

+1

1 decade ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

I wouldn't say I hate this type of media, but I guess I don't play games like DoA Xtreme.

1 decade ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

+1

1 decade ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

Heh, whenever people say things like "oversized boobs" as if it's a seriously despicable thing, I wonder how the same person would feel if smaller-than-average breasts were referred to in the same way as "undersized boobs."

I mean just imagine how the sentence "I don't want to play Mirror's Edge because Faith has undersized boobs," would sound.

1 decade ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

Not despicable, ridiculous. I want to play a game, not a boob simulator.

1 decade ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

I'm not complaining about not wanting to play a game with nothing but gigantic breasts. I just think that the word "oversized" might be a bit screwed up, given that real women with "oversized" breasts exist. If someone said the same thing about "undersized" breasts, that person would be viewed as terrible.

And the gigantic wobbling breast problem is slowly being worked out of the industry. Except for fighting games, where it's always a problem. The bigger problem with the way that breasts are portrayed in video games is that they're all portrayed as being more perfect than you'll find in reality. There's a theory about what makes women attractive, and a lot of games adhere to it very closely. Essentially, it has a lot to do with how high breasts are on the body (most video game characters have MUCH higher breasts than real women), head-to-hip ratio, head-to-neck ratio, waist-to-hip ratio, etc.

Breast size gets a LOT of complaints in video games, but to be entirely honest bust size is far from the biggest (har har) offender. You will find a LOT more women with cup sizes that match up with a game character than you will women whose breasts are positioned as high on the body as in games. And that's just the tip of the iceberg. All of these things work together to create a completely unattainable level of beauty.

And still, none of those things come close to being nearly as much of a problem as the way that female characters behave in media. But that is, of course, a more difficult problem to fix, and it's nearly impossible to discuss it without subjectivity causing an argument from someone.

1 decade ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

Oh? And the male characters aren't meant to invoke the same sex appeal, with skintight costumes and giant, muscled arms? That's a double standard, as far as I'm concerned. Personally, I'd rather have everyone over-sexualized. Ugly people, by definition, aren't as pleasant to look at.

1 decade ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

A twerking idle animation.

1 decade ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

Watch Kerry Washington in the TV series, "Scandal".

1 decade ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

The same thing that makes a good male protagonist.

1 decade ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

Large breasts.

1 decade ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

Disclaimer: I'm a guy, so if women have a special ability for relating to women, I can't tell you how that works. I don't think I've got a special ability to relate to men, though -- at least not a conscious one, so I can't tell you how that works either.

What makes a good female protagonist? I'd say the same thing as what makes a good male protagonist, since making a character a believable human being is more important than the nature of their naughty bits. That's not to say you should ignore that there are gender differences, but you're doing it wrong if they're more important than the story.

Trying to write a female character in accordance with whatever standards people would like you to uphold is prone to lead to centipede syndrome -- as writers start consciously thinking about how to not make their portrayal offend anyone, they lose the ability to write well.

1 decade ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

yawn!

1 decade ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

You just be hatin', man. Don't be hatin'.

1 decade ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

I take my hat off to you sir, I be hatin good?

1 decade ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

Oh, that page is good!

1 decade ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

Big boobs and big guns ;) or ever better boob guns :o

1 decade ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

1 decade ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

If the internet social justice crowd is to be believed, a mannequin.

If sales of books like the Twilight Saga are to be believed, useless needy victims.

Pick your poison, or just write what the hell you want and screw what anyone else wants. You'd be surprised how often it comes out okay.

1 decade ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

This is better than what I said. I'd like to change my response to this one. But I won't since that'd be mighty confusing.

1 decade ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

+1

1 decade ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

XD

1 decade ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

I think it's a bit touchy topic, because quite a lot of women (at least on the internet) seem to be rather easily offended by female protagonists written in a fashion they don't like.
So game devs and (screen)writers have to be careful, which often leads to poorly executed female characters.
I noticed this trend in movies and TV series, especially (but not only) cop shows, where the lead female characters often tend to be arrogant, overconfident bitches arguing with their male coworkers all day long. That's awful, IMHO.

So, my advice to the OP would be:
don't think of it as "writing a FEMALE character", think of it as "writing a human being". Generally, females tend to have better sense of details than males, and when they describe something, they usualy describe it in more details than a male would. So remember this when writing dialogues, if you wish :)
Other than that, in the modern days, generally females aren't really all that different than males.

1 decade ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

I think the real question is "What makes a good protagonist?".

It's hard to give a response that's not subjective, in any case. In my opinion, I find that I can relate to any gender as long as the character and the storyline is intriguing. I want them to have flaws, weaknesses and a personal investment in why they are involved in the story.

Needless to say, stereotypes suck.

1 decade ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

Attempting to create art to please an audience or a particular demographic usually results in generic, soulless, banal results. Just write the characters however you see fit. If you find it hard to write a female characters because of any worries or pre-conceptions, write your first draft with all male characters. Then toss a coin for each of your characters to decide it they are going to be male or female, do a search-and-replace of your first draft to change the names accordingly, and re-read it and see what you think.

1 decade ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

Deleted

This comment was deleted 4 years ago.

1 decade ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

most "good" examples of female characters don't exactly extend much further than "action hero without a dick"

Feels to me like you're really limiting your genre. Female characters would only be action heroes if you look at the action genre, and IMO that's a more male oriented genre in the first place. In gaming, if you want female protagonists look at hidden object adventures. For novels try reading books by female writers.

1 decade ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

Well, yeah, this.
+1

1 decade ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

It doesn't take much effort to write a female character that is both modest and respected.
Unfortunately, most video game developers are shallow men. You don't see many male protagonists in a war or battle wearing a G-String, so why would a woman go in there with what is essentially a bikini.
As long as you respect your characters, they will shine through as being a "good" example of female characters.

Also, it's not hard to understand women. As a man, I find it so much harder to bond with guys.

1 decade ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

Who would want to watch a Man's butt while playing Video games? Beside, It's great to see some jiggle physics once In a while

1 decade ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

Female characters can be more than sex objects.

1 decade ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

Not even female, but I think that a good female protagonist is one that doesn't act and play like a reskinned male character

1 decade ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

A strong independent woman who aint need no man.

1 decade ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

I am not a woman, but I am a writer, and I want to respond to your question as a writer.

For starters, you're not going to find out what you need to know by reading "feminist" literature. The women you really want to listen to, the ones who can (try to) explain to you what women like and how they think, are the ones who understand that men and women are different, not equal. Such women are comfortable with their femininity and utilize all of the amazing qualities they possess.

If you're going to be writing/creating games aimed at a female audience, you might start with The Bechdel Test. That won't guarantee that your work will be accepted or admired by women, but it will hopefully shift your focus in the right direction. If you're actually going to try and write from the perspective of your opposite gender, that's a tall order. It takes extensive research to pull that off convincingly, and most authors can't achieve it. The Harry Potter series, for example, fails in this respect because J.K. Rowling is somewhat ignorant of how males think and the influences which govern their lives. As a man trying to write from the perspective of a female character, it is much easier to have your female co-worker "fix" your masculine writing as you go along than it is to try and do it properly yourself.

I do not, however, want to discourage you from including a feminine perspective in your writing. Go for it. The exercise should prove to be of benefit to you. In fact, I think every man should spend at least some time and energy learning about women and how their perspective of things differs from that of men. Only then can a man truly appreciate the subtle differences between the sexes and why women are so critically important to the well-being of all humanity.

Just as a general tip, however, you should know that women tend to not be so hung up on the gender of a character as men are. Make sure that the characters are well-developed, interact with each other on a personal (i.e. not superficial) level, and that your hero or heroine is admirable. Do that and your game or story will probably appeal to a female audience.

PS. (Am I the only one noticing how many men are responding to a question addressed to women?)

1 decade ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

But the main crux of ridiculousness in the OP is that he somehow thinks only women can answer this question. Discussions of equal representation are certainly not limited to women, nor should they be (that's the whole point, it's a human issue).

1 decade ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

That's very useful, thanks! I was approaching this writing more like an exercise anyway, so that's nice.

1 decade ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

Closed 1 decade ago by dymoblade.