Just saw the news.
PS: I like it this way ... many will not :)).
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I would like for Valve to expand on what "are illegal, or straight up trolling". Though, if Valve does explain further on the quote, then more negativity arrives than wanted.
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I agree with the fact that GOG has a better quality control. For example there have been years between the time Project Zomboid was available on steam and GOG. The game was really playable and maybe less buggy than final releases of many games but GOG kept saying "No. It's still not good enough."
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anything has better quality control than Valve, because Valve has no quality control at all ;p heck, Valve allowed not just controversial games on Steam, Valve allowed games that had no executable files on Steam, they don't even check if game someone is selling contains any game at all. They only act after someone reports that there's something wrong. I cannot imagine what could be worse in quality control terms than not even checking if game you are selling contains any game at all.
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Yes, but GOG has a "Community Wishlist" section, and it's my understanding that if a game gets enough votes there, it overrules staff opinion. I know there were at least a couple of specific instances where that did in fact happen.
GOG has a lot of issues they need to address, but they at least are vested in providing quality. Valve only cares about getting paid as much as possible for doing as little as possible and damn any other considerations. If nothing else, GOG at least provides a sense of validation to consumer investment into the service- unlike Valve, which routinely comes across as being antagonistic toward its userbase.
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I like the announcement. I think it might be wise for Steam to extend the refund period to 4 hours though.
Yes there are a lot of garbage asset flip type games on Steam but imo I'd let the market take care of it. I'm not a big supporter of glorious capitalism but with a review system and a refund system in place the shit games will get 'taken care of' on their own I think. I worry more about a ham handed Valve deciding what is or isn't quality more than I do the occasional purchase of a crap game. Granted, that is probably what they meant by 'trolling' in the announcement anyway....
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Steam started with Valve curating it, which basically meant them picking and choosing the winners. Were those always the best games? I highly doubt. Then the trickle started with publishers being able to pass this process. And greenlight followed, then direct access and now we are here.
I don't believe that there is any going back anymore. And no one can argue that latest changes haven't brought truly deserving genres on Steam.
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Also consider how much Steam has grown since its earlier days that if Valve wants to maintain their older policy of personally curating all games that come to Steam, then Valve has to cut back expenditures on other ambitious projects they have. Remind that Valve is working on three VR games concurrently and video game development is still costly, especially with three, despite the fact video game development costs are decreasing over time.
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Valve working on games? HAHAHAHAHA good joke!
1 paid employee could do the job of quality control, games from big studios literally dont need control but that 1 employee could filter out assetflips or fake games which dont even start, without executable file or just a black screen to sell 5k achievements.
But yes, its costy and Valve dont have money for it, after all Valve has more profit per employee than google.....
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Contrary to many assumptions, this isn't a space we've automated - humans at Valve are very involved with groups of people looking at the contents of every controversial title submitted to us.
The phrasing here is interesting. Is not automated, but only after it's already in the store, otherwise we wouldn't see the controversies that happen every now and then.
Or at least that's what it feels like.
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This is corporate bullshite ;p There is no quality control on Steam ;p After all Valve did allow games on Steam without even executable files, if they cannot even verify if game they are selling contains said game in the first place what quality control are we even talking about? ;p
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We've been under that impression since the early days of Greenlight, Certain elements of how Direct was presented pretty much confirmed it outright. Guess it's official, then- though as with the rest of the blog post, it's just confirming things we all understood to be true to begin with. :P
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I liked greenlight at the beginning. It was an intereting way for indies to make their way to steam. The system was abused though. Plus when I downvoted something it wouldn't count towards the game not being released. It would just be a 0, and when upvote +1. So in the end the community feedback wouldn't matter for the outcome :/
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As long as they dont purge games cause a titie was show i hardly care.
Steam is full of garbage nowadays , and cleaning that is nearly impossible .
We get like 100games + a week being added to the pile , so that shit is way out of control at this point .
Hope they dont crumble under some SJW pressure from somewhere and start nuking stuff cause its controversial
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I dare say a significant portion of those developers are not trying to express anything other than how foolish Valve and its customers can be.
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It seems that it's just a hobby of many to complain about Valve, no matter what their decision.
If they had banned 'naked games' - rage.
They allow everything legal - "Steam simply doesn't care enough about quality!".
Often followed by suggestions that GOG is the only true place to be, while those chaps were responsible for several blunders too, like when they rejected Thomas Was Alone. Or several other splendid games.
It's absolutely possible to run a store that is as open as possible, while also making it easy to find great games. Steam isn't responsible for people throwing their money at "developers" who don't deserve it.
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It is weird seeing people say "Let's jump on over to GOG" or before it was "Desura is the place to be" while at the same time amassing thousands of games on Steam that they mostly will never play. What this blog posts message is, is that "you can't make everyone happy" and as it turns out, Valve is correct.
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Let me see if I get this right. The topic is about Steam regulating their store or keeping it open, as far as the given national laws require or allow.
Your answer to regulations never making 100% of the people happy is:
Feel free to point me to the people who would be UPSET that their game comes with an .exe file.
Uhm. Sure.
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Your argument was "whatever Valve does, someone will be unhappy", my argument was "if they actually check their Direct submissions to be working... AS IS THEIR GODDAMN JOB IN THE FIRST PLACE" nobody would be unhappy. Hence a way to make everyone happy.
Clearer?
Actually offering proper human support would also turn everyone happy as well.
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I agree and can't understand the buzz with too much crap , well the majority of AAA now are shit , Battlefront anyone , the quality is subjective for each of us excluding technical problems :D.
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Freedom of speech will always be far better than rampant censorship. A balance will never be achieved. Let the market decide what is detrimental and what is beneficial in terms of topics, pricing and availability. Banning Steam titles on flimsy moral grounds, is the digital equivalent of orchestrating a book burning procession.
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+1, I don't know why so many people seem to think Steam should be censoring all the games that don't pass their personal quality threshold while any another store is "allowed" to list whatever crap they want.
Noone is forcing anyone to buy the whole Steam catalog, so I don't see any issue with it containing 1 billion crapware instead of just 1 thousand AAA games
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Noone is forcing anyone to buy the whole Steam catalog
Yes, but there's no option to filter this trash.
I can't hide ALL "games" (released and future) from one publisher. I must hide it manually.
So if i visit steam store main page - i will see trash from "developer" who release new game every single week - i want to hide it, but i can't.
I remember 2-3 years ago on monday if you open steam discount page - you can find&buy many interesting games. Now i use only wishlist, too many trash "games" around, its just wasting time to find something interesting
Steam store=Google play
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The solution to that is that they should work on their suggestion algorithm, rather than removing some games / software completely.
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I can't hide ALL "games" (released and future) from one publisher. I must hide it manually.
I agree with this. Currently, Steam allows only three tags on the filtering system and what I deem one game as "Not interested" does not substantially change the other games I view on the Steam store. I still see anime video games here and there as I browse the Steam store despite my disinterest in anime games even though I have the three most popular genre tags on my filtering system (Respectfully, I have no spite for fans of anime video games; I watch anime, but not play them. I have Steam friends who are significantly involved in that genre). This new Steam blog post is a positive for me such that Valve acknowledges more game filtering tools are necessary to the Steam user. The next steps are what tools are coming, when are they coming, and how are they introduced. The call for more curation from Valve itself is becoming more bleak. Now is the call for more curation power to the Steam users.
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Yeah, I'm not sure what the point is of filtering out tags if the way Steam responds to that is to show me the games anyway and just include a note that the game includes a tag I filtered out.
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Oh yeah, 100%. I honestly don't even mind the Steam store that much, but the fact that the only filter you really have is for 'games you want to see less of' is garbage. Like damn it, can't I just block all games that are VR only or something? Or yeah, hiding certain publishers, making the discovery queue not show you games 'just to see if you're interested' etc...
If you're not going to do the quality control yourself, at least let consumers control the quality of the games they see. It's slightly reassuring to hear they sorta acknowledge that.
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So, now we can achieve the glorious 90% asset flip shit rate?
I kinda understand why Activision is jumping ship after EA and UbiSoft, and why it seems like Bethesda is next. The only difference between Steam and itch.io will probably be that itch.io is confirmed to be run by at least some human beings, not just a bottomless corporate mouth starving for more money.
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Yep.
Now if Only itch.io would just do away with the infinitely scrollable pages...they make it impossible to systematically look through all the games available on the store (without crashing your browser) to find the hidden gems.
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Dang. If Bethesda leaves Steam, I doubt I will be buying any more of their games. I have Uplay and Steam. I don't want any more platforms, and I have no interest in Battlenet or Origin. I'm not sure if there are any Activision games that would interest me, but it is a shame for others that are fans of theirs.
Are they building their own platform, or are they going to Uplay, Origin, or Battlenet?
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Oh. Then I guess I already have it. I had to use it to use the Pack Code they had from Humble Bundle for The Elder Scrolls: Legends. I would rather have all my eggs in one basket, but it doesn't seem likely now.
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I honestly can't tell how much is classic Valve laziness and greed (and certainly, that's a major factor regardless) and how much is their team outright lacking the morality and ethics necessary to give more serious topics the weight they deserve.
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I just want the asset flips, copy-paste games, and intentionally low effort games to be removed. They benefit no one but the "developers" trying to make a quick buck.
Allowing users to filter out the types of games and game genres they don't care for is great, but "intentionally bad game" shouldn't need to be a type of game.
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That's a lot of fluff anf spin, just to say " We really do give zero fucks, unless someone stirs up enough of a controversy that bigger news outlets start picking up on it"
Edit: Unless they now decide that the low-grade meme-shit asset-flips fall under "straight up trolling. "
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That's a lot of fluff anf spin, just to say " We really do give zero fucks, unless someone stirs up enough of a controversy that bigger news outlets start picking up on it"
Yep. Basically a wall of text about nothing.
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We realize we've plenty of things on Steam that have violated our content policies, including outright hatespeech propaganda, but we're now officially stating that we just don't give a fuck about it.
Their discontinuation of the recent visual novel aggro is favorable (given the implications their vague approach had for the entire genre) but, nonsensical as that presentation was, it was also the only display of quality control we'd ever seen from Valve. At this point, they've just officially confirmed their lack of oversight and seem to be implying they're okay with more extreme sexual content entering the store, which seems a rather sudden about-face from trying to get softcore elements removed from the store.
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We already have some tools, but they're too hidden and not nearly comprehensive enough. We are going to enable you to override our recommendation algorithms and hide games containing the topics you're not interested in. So if you don't want to see anime games on your Store, you'll be able to make that choice. If you want more options to control exactly what kinds of games your kids see when they browse the Store, you'll be able to do that. And it's not just players that need better tools either - developers who build controversial content shouldn't have to deal with harassment because their game exists, and we'll be building tools and options to support them too.
I read this as there can be a blacklist of some sort and perhaps an extension to the tag filter system that can allow more than three tags currently.
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This seems to be a very abrupt about-face, considering how they attempted to get visual novels with sexual content in them removed from the store... two weeks ago.
I can't really find it in me to disagree with the blog in and of itself, it's just very - okay, I suppose we're going to act like that never happened.
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I'm saying that how Valve removes visual novels for sexual content is not the reason for discussion, but the methodology of removing games with sexual content, regardless of genre, as Valve's own discretion is inconsistent and with seemingly prejudice to a specific genre while other video game genres with sexual content have not been afflicted yet or as much. I may seem to support visual novels from what I stated, but I do not have a taste for visual novels and keep anime out of my video games.
Valve received harsh flak from keeping visual novel games or removing them; a damn-if-you-do-damn-if-you-don't situation. No one cannot say Valve's public image has been injured because from the Steam blog post linked above:
Unfortunately, our struggling has resulted in a bunch of confusion among our customers, developer partners, and even our own employees.
Visual novel developers received inconsistent emails about their games relating to adult content. In the case of the HuniePop developer, he or she initially received a letter from Valve regarded that HuniePop violated Steam's rules and guidelines on adult content, but shortly thereafter the developer received another letter to disregard the previous letter Valve had sent.. Confusing for the HuniePop creator and the fans. Add more uncertainty when Valve delisted a non-adulterated visual novel called A Kiss for the Petals - Maidens of Michael on the basis of a false user report which claimed the game had adult content contrarily. No word from Valve nor is the game back on Steam as of 6 June 2018. Thus, summarized from Kotaku's article name, Valve's Inconsistent Rules On Sexy Steam Games Continue To Baffle Devs which has led visual novel developers to seek elsewhere for business other than Steam - lost business is not great for a company of course.
I infer some sort of action(s) has to be done quickly so that Valve does not end up in a similar situation as the company was in for the case of visual novels. The news about a now-removed school shooting game on Steam catalyzed the need for immediate response, hence the Steam blog as the main topic of this thread announced a new step to curation which Valve will provide tools for a larger curation role to its players and will only partake in the more - lack of better word - controversial games that come to the Steam store.
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Worth noting that the school shooting game was reported to have been removed solely due to it being a copyright-infringing asset-flip by a developer who had already been removed from Steam under a different name. Supposedly, games with that kind of content- and much, much worse- will become mainstream now that they've been officially encouraged.
Naturally, Valve will make every possible effort to make sure filtering and gating is done appropriately and respectfully..
...
...
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Valve has yet to retroactively remove games based on their new policies to game curation announced today. The games you pointed out may or may not come to Valve's attention in the future. Reading the new Valve blog post, more of a chance now the games you mentioned can be removed if Steam users attract Valve's attention to both games rather than wait for Valve to remove them.
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I would be happy about this, but they just basically "reset" their weird idea about the pornographic games that went in such a questionable way. Which is okay.
But at the same time they make it clear that they won't stand up against literally anything, that's not against laws or very, very serious ethics. So I guess no quality control, not stopping some devs churning out close to 20 standard platformer games in 20 different coats with different character, enemies and colour palette. Or the missing executibles.
So, at the end, max money and minimum work, typical Valve :\
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at some point indie developers will go straight for the console market and ignore steam.
Some of them already reported much higher sales on console, where their games arent left ignore due to the ammount of trash titles clogging the store. And i would completly agree with them.
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It's their loss actually. And a bad move in my opinion.
I do not own a console and never will. I do not agree with the practice of exclusive games. To me they should either release to every platform or not at all.
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I don't have to have everything at one store, but as someone who has games on Steam, GOG, Origin, Uplay, Epic and others, I can tell you, it's a lot more convenient to use just one client. I don't want to need to use a Bethesda client, Square Enix client, etc.
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I like the idea, at least we'll have clearer rules, if it's not inarguably illegal or taking the piss too much it's allowed in the store basically. I just hope they deliver on their promise of better tools.
I must admit tho that I wasn't expecting this move after they declared war on anime titts less than a month ago, it kinda looks like they went "fuck it, I no longer care" and gave up.
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Is important the difference about content and quality, the first is a simple thing that can be solved with proper filtering without fall in the censorship, but the quality is only they responsibility, greenlight and steam direct shows that they need do a better curatorship of the games in the store.
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Stop it man, the will not get it , the majority are lazy to even research a game they need them in their face or else VALVE is bad :)).
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https://steamcommunity.com/games/593110/announcements/detail/1666776116200553082
So all the trash will be on Steam! Good days right?
I agree on principle with this. I just hope they will get around to fully allow adult titles also.
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