Will you EVER care about users of SteamTrades?
No, he won't. He saw that steamtrades has a problem, he put it in a different domain, just so nobody will be able to complain about it anymore, since here is steamgifts. No steamtrades forum to write anything there, no support to help anyone, nothing at all. xD
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So, I'm not gonna pretend that I'm a big time trader and I'm aware of every issue on ST (after all I normally say that I only trade for fun) but in most cases common sense is the best protection against scammers. Like they say, if it sounds too good to be true it probably is.
If a trader takes the time to check other traders before jumping into a deal a lot of scams could be avoided.
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Yes sure "If a trader takes the time to check other traders before jumping into a deal a lot of scams could be avoided."
users with exp can do it and i doing it but its not possible avoid probem in longer time horizont. For example 1 of my games was revoked from guy with 100 rep and nice steam account. Its not that easy.
Also... new users and users who dont know what/how to check are easy to be scammed.
It need some basic system at first.
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Well to be fair I had my first experiences with trading back when ST was a bit more restrictive, so you're right on being concerned about newbies. It's just that I'm not sure that it's possible to quantify how trustworthy a user is in an infallible way within a system like this.
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ST was better before but now is well known its not protected and any scammer can register and literally any amount of accounts = he can easily build XY rep too and force legit new users to go first or so.
Thats a main problem. No registration protection its first thing that we need.
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Whats that good for? on ST are users with 10 / 20 negative reps and still are around and offer deals. No any ban for confirmed -reps so its useless any -rep. Sure i wont trade with them but principle is still same.
We cant do anything 100% but we can at least make it harder to let them come here / scam someone.
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Maybe because not lot of money from ST as from SG?
I think he dont need new stystem. Idk how hard is this but some systems are already on SG so it can be copies on ST with some edits and it wont take longer than "donator system tags" :D
10 confirmed negatives by actual voting system? = banana
Registration limit $150 of account value at same value-ing system as here on SG (bundle games lower value etc)
blacklisting is already on SG too
basic things already exist, just need care and bit work
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steamrep is more or less useless, and is has been like that for years.
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Nope. That self-policing system is supposed to take care of the issues. To his defence, I have zero idea what could be done about SteamTrades, the entire Steam game/key trading scene is pretty much hopeless. Only Valve could do anything about it if they locked down keys to a very regulated market, but that would make more troubles than solutions.
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Trading game keys isnt connected to Valve.
Its good by you when place where goes about money is unprotected with no any basic security things? Why SG is moderated to hell and ST no?
Booo dont post giveaway link or u get suspended
Booo dont calling out or u get suspened (while calling is true sure)
ST = scammers, ads of some bots, csgo roulette sites... and nobody cares. Isnt scamming money more important that stupid giveaway link? Why so much care about these not important rules here while "1 house near" running thiefs?
Try post ad post here with promoting some gambling site, will be deleted in hour... on ST its forever ... double meter on same thing
Any trading place deserve "some" security system. As i said, ST is one of biggest trading places but in last time getting to trash, anarchy and hell. Since am active trader i know most of other active users like oldschool users... 3/4 of them ended with trading for this reason. Good legit users are unproteced in anarchy system and scammers are free to do anything. So basically scammers got advantageous and legit ones are throwen to hell.
And you youself are never able to avoid all problems by checking everything alltime. Cornerstone is basic security system at first place.
U (anyone) will understand me 100% when become active trader
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SteamGifts is regulated because it is a privately-owned site about game raffles, and raffles can have any kind of rules as long as they do not go against laws.
Steamtrades is about exchanging items for a virtual or real monetary value, and therefore technically falls under trading. And cg does not have the authority to enforce trading regulations; for one, which country's regulations would be the baseline? Canada, since he lives there? United States, since the site is registered there? Russia, since half of the population there if from that place?
On top of that, how do they even police SteamTrades? Anyone can fake convincing evidence of scam attempts, especially if they get a few friends on it, and due to the nature of the items in question (Steam keys), it is impossible to verify any kind of authenticity or origin. Even Steam/Valve itself can only do anything about scam attempts when people use the Steam trade system, as it is properly logged.
Sites like SteamRep have some reputation against scammers, but in reality, they throw back most of the cases and only flag people where the evidence is prety much irrefutable, which is a very rare case. After all, the problems starts with the users not making any proof, not recording anything, just claiming things. You cannot build a police system on people only claiming things.
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Am not good on longer english text to read.
Not about regulation, i mean apply system like is on SG. As minimal security to trading. Its hard to integrate blacklist, put back registration limit add autoban? Nope i think.
Valve? What? Here is user, create new steam, take money/bitcoin/keys and run away. What they can do? Nothing coz its not steam gifting, they dont assist in trading cd keys. Valve chapter u can close at all.
Steamrep no comment.
All problems starting with pipolz dont make proofs? Nope problems starting on this at first, no security.
Can u imagine screen / record everything everytime? Thats not possible when u do many trades.
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What kind of registration limit you want? One does not need 100 games in library to have something to trade. One does not need to spend money on Steam cards to have levels. How would that prove anything? What limit would you set? Why, and why do you think it's safe? How it could be avoided and how would you recognize the false positive registrations?
Also, autoban for what? Who would decide? Who could check which trader is lying in case of a dispute? Who would have time to do all of these?
Until you don't have an answer how a working system could be made, I don't think it's a good idea just to generally demand implementation of some vague points, and letting others do the thinking, making, maintaning part.
Btw I do think that ST is beyond help simply because it's unchackable what 2 people trade, trade window, email sending, already expired keys - everything can be easily manifactured and have fake proof what the other person did. SG is way simpler, that's why it's easier to maintain and moderate. ST should just be nuked because of said reasons.
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Not 100 games, like is here on SG.. $100 value of Steam account
Why i think its safe? Still better "something" than totally nothing. Account with 3 games and lvl 1 looks like legit profile?
As i said am not good on longer english texts but i see u arent active trader so i dont know how happens on ST or why its good to add safety tools.
How to made? On SG its possible to make it and on ST no? SG already have some tools so where is problem to do it also on ST? Ik its not 1 min of work but on SG is also lot of nit important things.
I didnt got u what u mean but all i mean is make to scammers hardest possible way. Here isnt any basic defence. Here on SG is $100 reg limit to avoid leech bots made just to connect giveawys. Why this cant be on ST too to avoid random fresh accounts? But its not only about this 1 thing
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How to made? On SG its possible to make it and on ST no? SG already have some tools so where is problem to do it also on ST?
SG requires the won game to be activated - that's the only thing they need to check. And as you said about Valve: "no keys for keys, no keys for items, no keys for paypal/btc or smth" how that should be enforced on the site, hm?
Let's send money to my paypal for my key that's used or not. How would you prove that I scammed you? Sending paypal certificate to the moderators? You can just make one in photoshop. Same for the screenshot of the balance changes on your account, or the Steam chat history that conveniently wipes itself after closing. You can not prove anything in a way that it's trustworthy. Trading never will be as safe as winning a game on SG and activating or not.
SG uses a system that punished if someone doesn't have the game that they are enforced to activate. Nothing else. Before SGTools everyone had to do the checks manually. You can not use a Steam API system on ST where everything can be traded in everything.
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U dont know what i talking about.
We need some security here.
At first u need make harder registration on ST to avoid plague freah account made just to scam
then some personal things like is on SG blacklist etc, if someone bother u with dumb offers u just click BL and he cant offer u anymore like here u cant enter your giveaways.
Rep system is here too "vote on revs" if rep is decided its not correct its removed
but if rep is considered as approved it stay on account but nothing more so u can get +1000/-100 w ith no punishment. So if 10 (or 20 or anything) is considered as approved user get autoban. But it can be fuked by multiple accounts so u need avoid fake accounts first.
Its biggest problem.
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Yeah multi-accounts are a bit problem
maybe blacklist the most known proxy/vpns etc but idk how to handle those things right
but i remember reporting a guy who pushed himself to level10 and all his other accounts to leech all the groupgiveaways
he had 15-17 accounts and noone noticed it ...can hardly believe that he had all over different IPs running
many user on ST have several topics with the same content
but on different accounts but you can see it because it is exactly the same content of a copy/paste-text
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ST should just be nuked because of said reasons.
yeah right... you can easily say it should be nuked because you don't use it. for others this is a site they use regularly. they want improvements, not a shutdown. imagine someone suggests to close steamgifts just because of some problems. would you like that?
Until you don't have an answer how a working system could be made, I don't think it's a good idea just to generally demand implementation of some vague points, and letting others do the thinking, making, maintaning part.
so now one is not allowed to complain about something unless he can offer the perfect solution himself? sorry, but what a silly argument that is. i am sure if you think about it a little more you will come to the same conclusion. can the people in america not complain about shitty health care without providing a 100 page bill themselves?
What kind of registration limit you want? One does not need 100 games in library to have something to trade.
right, so you are essentially saying we should completely drop the registration limit on SG, yes? because one does not need 100 games to give away something, or to win something. please tell me, why do we have such a restriction here on SG? what does it prevent? and why would it not prevent anything on ST then?
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Nice joke mate.
about 3rd: I didn't say that, don't do straw-man. I told in my next reply why the two sites are fundamentally different. Read that please before you try to attack statements I didn't do :)
2nd: Again, I told that demanding something without even being able to find a solution for that is stupid. Not that complaining is forbidden, lol. You're also free to name a system to monitor and check a site where trades are done in all kinds of ways, and none of them can be 100% confirmed.
1st: everyone yells what they want, yet nowhere a single basic idea how that that implemented. As far as thing are, I'm convinced that trading between two random users is uncheckable, there are no trustworthy way to oversee it and all proof that could be presented could be just easily manufactured. So yes, according to my current knowledge, the system is bad and can not be controlled in any trustworthy way, so the only way to prevent most of the problems is not using the site. And aaagain, comparing SG with a simple "activate the game that you won in a randomized giveaway" general rule to ST's trade thingawat to doodad. (include at least 4 different platform keys, steam wallet, items, cards, paypal, bitcoins and godknows what else is quite hard. Trading was, is and will be a mess compared to SG because SG has API integration to prevent all misuse regarding entering, doublewin and DLC on SG's side (API errors are on Steam's side)
And please, really. Stop being so cocky when you constantly use slippery slope and straw-man arguements. I want replies and ideas about what I have written, not how you can attack your own conclusions that more or less (rather less) based on my comments.
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xD lol
"legit scammer" u made my day now
if anyone trade for profit or to get games or anything is simply trading in any way.
But register account to cleary scam is different thing, register, buy games on stolen card, take money and run away u compare with trading. Huh
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I do see where heilurmes is coming from. If you trade to make a profit. If you know your items are worth less than the other persons items. Then you knowingly take advantage of the other person. Sure it is not a scam because you both agree on the trade but if its ethically correct, that's a whole different story.
Personally I wouldn't take advantage of other people to make money.
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Its rlly not same thing.
If u go to shop and buy milk u can say they scammed u too. Owner of cows taking profit, shop taking profit, company who bring product take profit and u pay all this to them and to their pocket. Its how trading works on whole planet. So trading for profit isnt any scam coz both sides got thing they wanted.
But if u buy for example PS4 and they send u stone... its scam.
Yes its different story and not even connected to problem with scammers who come just to scam users.
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I said it wasn't the same thing. It's not a scam but it is still taking advantage of another trader.
It is completely different from a store owner, The store owner provides you a service and that is what you pay him extra for
If you trade a game on steamtrades both parties provide the same service so they should be equally paid or not get paid.
If it really was how trading works on the whole planet than everybody should make a profit. So no more trades would be made because both traders can't make a profit on the same trade.
If I make a topic on steamtrades to trade my 5 euro steam gift card for their 10 euro steam gift card I doubt I will get many replies because they instantly see their item is worth more than mine.
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Only the abstraction of a "perfect market" provides fairness. With full transparency, without preferences etc.
A Steam games trader who is able to take advantage/profit of a trade got into this situation because he either was lucky or he had better information. And this information has to be obtained first by using knowledge and time. He also has to be more experienced with trading, which is again an investment.
If you don't see similarities in every business area out there, then sales and purchase stores, stockbrokers and lawnbrokers are the easiest examples.
And no, I'm not trading for profit, only for games. Nonetheless it happens sometimes that I get a higher value out of it. There would be way fewer trades, if the price would have to match at any time.
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You are right. Some security measures should be implemented on ST. I'm with you 100%
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here are profiles around like 3 games on account, steam profile level 1 and offer popular games?
And why would anyone trade with them? The only person ever tried to scam me, added me without having a ST account...
on ST are users with 10 / 20 negative reps and still are around and offer deals.
And why would anyone trade with them?
You can go to steamrep and so on. Don't be lazy. There is enough information avaliable to check if a trader is a scammer or not.
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u act like its not needed to have security.. u will sleep with open main doors in city? U put phone on random place and go away? Everything will be okey u just need check it? :D
"You can go to steamrep and so on. Don't be lazy"
i hope its not serious. Whats that good for???? Account created just to come on ST, took money from stolen games and run away and never come back. Steamrep is totally pointless to this. They dont use account for months.
And thats a problem... u can make as many accounts as u want and register them on ST. We need stop scammers at start as much as its possible and not at end when they already scammed money....
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u act like its not needed to have security.
No, but everything we have is enough security.I agree that new traders that do not read any guidelines can fall into traps, but other than that every experienced trade knows that you do not trade with new accounts/bad reps for prices that are to good to be true.
There are like 3 things you have to check and consider:
If you just look at these things we already have and can access then you're already good to go.
Increased security measures would only make people less careful. You said one of the scammers made 2000$ until "caught". And you thing an "entryfee" of 150$ would keep him away? Think again.
If you use the security we have and use your brain, it's already pretty hard to get scammed.
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I have xxxx trading rep on ST and ik what to do so i do not understand what shit wave of scammers is here last 14 days, it happened to me first time in my life if some game got revoked.
Yes $100 isnt 100% security and i also told it here in some comment it can be fuked too. Revoking scammers are ones bit more smart, $100 limit wont stop everyone but can be very helpful to dumb ones who just take ur game and delete u (never happened to me)
U need to look on problem overall and we do not searching reason why dont do it but why yes. Its abput whole community.. not everyone know these things what to do or check. I said.. it must be stopped on start, not on end
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If ur point is its not needed just pass this thread please.
So having a different opinion on something means I am not allowed to say something? I repeat myself:
Increased security measures would only make people less careful.
Each time you make it harder, some small flies (scammers) will be kept out together with some legit users. And the remaining scammers will just stock up.
For 100-200$ and a bit of time you can buy an old account and have him look like a total legit account with more than enough games. If scammers are beeing forced to do that, they will and then it gets harder for others to recognice these scammers.
You said you got scammed...
How did the account look?
What did you paid with?
How many +/- rep had the guy
And most importantly how was the price compared to other traders?
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U sure can.
Yes scammed, first time in my life
I doing many trades, no idea what was for what and esp when they delete comments and u cant find it
Their rep is clear coz keys are revoked later.. i sure wont trade with any account with many -rep
Account i do not remember
Price was normal and its good way, sell at normal price in large amount than make epic interesting offers thats looks so weird
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But you can also take them out directly
noone need people with a bad - + Rep ratio
They are doing just nonsense anyway
People who are banned or suspended on SG
still can use ST and continue their nonsense ...because ban/suspensions arent global
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People who are banned or suspended on SG
So if I am suspended because I forgot to activate a game here, I am banned from trading? Not much sense there.
noone need people with a bad - + Rep ratio
Every ban system can have people slipping through, or other people ganking up on banning someone they do not like, so it needs moderation. Is it that hard to ignore -rep people?
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Sure that needs a little moderation
Most people were banned because of reports and an admin has executed it.
It makes no sense. That someone on SG ...for example was banned because of phishing links or a lot of fake giveaways, not to extend this ban to ST
The people are banned for all sorts of things on SG but on ST first an enormous amount of -rep must be accumulated
and even then, some people still can stay there and do nonsense
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of phishing links
How often did that actually happen? Not counting those gleam/ref stuff.
or a lot of fake giveaways
Besides very new users that do not understand the site and some rare cases of self promotion I haven't seen much of these as well.
But then again (exepting phishing links, since thats literally scamming) why should you forbid someone to go to the supermarket because they do not greet you on the street.
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These were just examples that can be replaced by anything
are you just trying to speak against it even if you recognize the logic?
why a supermarket chain shouldnt forbid someone to go to a supermarket B if this person has already tried to steal in supermarket A.
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if this person has already tried to steal in supermarket A.
Thats my point. I am not aware how manyof the suspended people here have recieved their suspension for something that justifies banning them from steamtrades as well.
Since not every reason to get banned here is (or should be) a reason to get banned on steamtrades.
And I would guess the amount of people where a double ban is justiefied are only very few.
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That's all right as you say. Never said that this should apply to all
And it does not even have to be a double ban
A info would already be enough in some cases on the user profile
"This user has been suspended for 15 days on Steamgifts because of Y" or something like that
like enhanced steam where you can see person x got bans there and there
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How does a pseudo-anonymous community/environment that is completely based around "profit" or "trading up," avoid attracting the scum of the earth?
Yeah, cg doesn't know either which is why he made the site self-sustaining. It isn't perfect, but neither is trading itself. Honestly, sounds like a ripe time for you to start an alternative site and offer what ST lacks.
Or simply stop trading. Surely you can see that it typically isn't worth the effort/time spent.
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drugs > eating really good sushi >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doing your taxes > trading
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i stopped active using trade section cause there're too many shiity traders xD
use https://trades.groupees.com/
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the site is infested with scammers and low ballers that you cant make a decent trade anymore. you want to trade a game which is worth 10 dollars and a smartass comes around and spams you with his offers of free gamesor crap for 50 cents. its not worth to trade. Or you make a trade list and all scammers add you on steam. its horrible and it really needs new rules and work.
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so basically somebody complains about a free site he is using? stop using that site, problem solved. :)
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so you want to earn more money without the risk on a free site.. i understand.
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I haven't traded in a while, but I think barter.vg is a better system for trading. You can only accept trades for games on your wishlist, and it's easier to view / dismiss incoming offers. That said, I think it's the responsibility of the traders to check and see if the user has a good reputation, not a new profile with just a couple games, etc.. as with any transaction their is a risk, and it's your risk to assume. Don't blame CG for making a free service that isn't up to your standards, if you think you can do a better job and make a better trading site then you're welcome to do so.
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I tried barter, got like 150 offers, declined 84%.. bit bored from site.
I dont blame cg or something. I only dont know why on SG can be 1200 features and on ST cant be single security thing.
Avoid scammers isnt my standard, nobody want scammers. I simply wanted to ask cg if he care
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Did you set the setting in barter to only include offers with games on your wishlist? If you're still declining 84% of those offers, maybe your expectations are a bit too high.
As for asking cg if he cares, don't you think that's a bit passive aggressive? Instead of a pointed questions, why not offer some solutions to the problems that you see? Honestly, for any trading / barter site the most important feature is a good reputation system, and I think ST handles that pretty well. It's difficult to moderate and ban users because first off that takes moderators with time, and none of the mods are getting paid for what they do. Second, the reports are subjective and there are a lot of false reports, etc. Better I think to leave everything in the open and let the traders decide for themselves.
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I dont think so, i have on ST 1260 rep, no any expectations i know what i want trade, offers arent interesting to me, its all. :D but its different thing
I think its not passive aggressive. Cant offer solution am not coder or so. I can give max idea.
Just asking if he care is good i think. He can simply reply no (i already know reply coz he never care, there was a lot of trheads about ST but i still have hope?) or he can say yes, whats wrong i can take a look on it.
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No idea on ST, Barther giving this info in profile. But on ST i have 10x more offers than on Barter so its more easy to do some trade.
But its not really about offers there or here... thread is about smth else and i think at least $100 limit as is on SG would be good start coz its already made and complete and can be copied on ST with no that much work
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Make offers yourself on Barter then.
Far easier to get some with chance to get accepted there. The manual way on ST is so archaic that I stopped bothering there completely.
at least $100 limit
agree, but compared to B, ST is still worse in every aspect except volume
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Trading is not suggested by steam. And steam can not cover for any losts. Why should a 3rd party website provide anything more that is impossible in the first place?
The rep system works just fine, just have to be smart. When something is too good to be true usually is. I got scammed in the past, but it was entirely my fault (and also the scammer, just in case people might get confused about me scamming myself). I didn't like it, obviously, but we have to face our mistakes and move on (and give a -rep in the at profile).
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Not too good to be true, am not that naive user with 3 rep. All offers was standard prices like others no problematic traders but games was revoked. I wanted to link profile of scammer from last week he traded like with 60 pipolz and all his games was revoked, its about that i want avoid these users to register as much as possible, its not about anything else. It must be stopped at start, not on end when all already lost money.
Stop them at start, not end. Isnt it logic? Thats why i asking about some featue it also help users to check them later coz u cant say all newbies are scammers. Yes u give him -rep then, whats thats good for when u already lost game/money?
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U will talk in another way if u loss something.
Its not about money to me, its about principle, how can be that easily come with trash account and scam lot of users? If there will be at leat $100 registration it can help avoind big % of scams. But also can fuked.. if he can buy games to revoke he can also activate some on account and get passed by checker, but its at least something and better than TOTALLY NOTHING.
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With 60 pipolz LOL now I understand that you mean 60 people. And I knew from the beginning without any feature check that he was a scammer, as it was new registered st account and only for 2 days he already got 30+ rep trading hb links form the current bundles, not any previous games coz they could be revoked in a month or so... Pipolz must learn on their mistakes.
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seriously xD
if cg sees that steamtrades generates revenue i suppose he would take care of moderation like it's done on sg. right now it looks like no man's land, a site that runs itself and it doesn't matter what happens in it.
people can scam others and be here winning giveaways at the same time, it makes no sense at all. at least before people got banned both in trades and giveaways.
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Yes no mans land but why? Becase they leaving becase its unmoderated and unsafe.
Users wont be active in high amount on site thats fuked and nobody cares about. He cant expect generating of money from ads or anything if he making site bad by dont care style. If u wont care about ur dog he become angry and useless...
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Bad copies are already cleaned :D
Just another stupid comment comparing trades with scamming.
Twice cheaper xD sell overpriced bundle games is ok but trading on close bundle price is bad.. plz. My prices are compared to prices of bundles and what games taking majority, so if u know nothing upset man who post from alt account just logoff agin or post from ur main hero :) but i dont care, active traders always get their enemy
I talking about this too xD idiotic comments and awful profiles like alt, not online 9 days, sg joined 3 years ago, entered 2 gas and only few comments on steam played 1 game in 2 years... Plz post from ur main if u have smth on ur heart
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CG is a busy man who wants to keep all of the responsibilities of everything possible to himself forever. Your steamtrades rep is less useful to him than how long you've been spamming in the steamgifts group chat, so don't expect a meeting or discussion with him.
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http://www.sgtools.info/sent/Onwkings/newestfirst
https://www.steamgifts.com/about/faq "What are levels, and how can I increase my level?" Point 3
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Reducing value of bundled games is to reward people gifting expensive games.
Reducing value of free games to 0 is to stop people from hoarding keys from mass GAs
Reducing values after the fith copy is to prevent developers to gain lvl 10 by just giving away their own game 1000s of times.
Just so you know why these rules are there and that they make sense ;->
Have a nice day/night, and glad I could help.
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Hello,
this question is for admin CG.
So cg dont care ok.
A posted thread where i poiting problem with thiefs and instead here is lot of idiotic commens... Thats awful
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