A lot of games on Steam don't rely on Steam DRM. They can be played without needing Steam by launching the executive file. For all the others (being the majority) a Steam emulator would be an option. In both cases you'd need an auxiliary Win10 machine for downloading from Steam.
But the above is besides the point. It's hard to understand why Valve wouldn't offer a legacy client. Even if only one percent of users still are on Win 7 according to their hardware survey we're talking about a million users.
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You have my sympathies. I was a W7 user until my old Alienware bricked on me and I would have gladly kept using it forever.
Which I guess is why Valve is making that move. Too many people unwilling to get on with crapware 10 and 11
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Waiting to the last day :)
Win 7 best operating system to date
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https://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/0/6516193260168294059/?tscn=1695473359
im gonna keep going for as long as i can
GO BEYOND!! PLUS ULTRA!!!!
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Something unrelated to the topic but why the need for disguising the giveaways? Only group members can enter group giveaways after all.
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windows 12 will be amazing.
windows 95* was garbage
windows 98 was life changing
windows 2000 was garbage
windows xp was life changing
windows vista was garbage
windows 7 was the best and life changing!
windows 8 was horrible garbage
windows 10 was life changing and amazing again
windows 11 is garbage and depressing.
with this process its clear that that 12 will be amazing and life changing all over again.
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windows 10 was life changing and amazing again
windows 11 is garbage and depressing.
windows 12 will be amazing
I've been testing Win11 (on a separate disk) ever since Valve announced they'd stop supporting Win7. And no, I don't agree. In my experience, Windows 10 and 11 both are basically an online service instead of an operating system. They both offer no privacy and act like Microsoft owns your hardware. If anything, the user interface on Win 11 is cleaner, e.g. they finally got rid of those silly tiles and online integration in the start menu. So why you'd say that Windows 10 was "life changing and amazing" when it's really just a glorified online service with the ability to launch windows-executables? And no, I don't think windows 12 will be amazing either. As long as Microsoft makes more money from online services (like One Drive) than with the actual operating system, they'll probably never come up with anything "amazing" ever again.
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windows 2000 was garbage
That should be Windows ME, which came between Windows 98 and XP. Windows 2000 (aka Windows NT 5.0) was actually quite a good one, but isn't part of the sequence because it was in a different product line. Windows XP (aka Windows NT 5.1) was a modified Windows 2000 intended to merge the two product lines, so it counts as the successor to both Windows ME and 2000.
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i must have aged passed that windows ME age. ive never even heard of it
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And Windows ME itself wasn't actually that bad, the big problem with it was that it had pretty spotty compatibility with drivers made for previous Win9X OSs, which meant that for a lot of people it was an unstable mess. If you were lucky enough to have hardware with decent driver support in ME it was pretty good for its time, though ultimately quite pointless.
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So good in fact windows 2000 was better then xp when xp released. Ive tried and went back to 2000 (the server edition) until service pack 1 or 2 of xp. Vanilla win xp wasnt as stable as win 2000 by a sizeable margim.
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That would be Windows 95, there was no 96 version. And 95 was actually a pretty good version for the time and a massive step forward on user interface when compared to Windows 3.X.
Also Windows 2000 was one of the good ones, you're thinking of Windows ME which was an unstable mess that makes Vista look solid by comparison.
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true, i didnt catch my finger slip on 95, i promise i meant it lol thanks for the catch
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What about the part where you claim it was garbage tho? W95 was a huge jump from W3.x, at the time it was just as big of an improvement as XP would be some years later.
And you didn't correct the mix up between 2000 and ME, which were two significantly different OSs. 2000 was the predecesor to XP and just as solid, while ME was a quickly thrown together last ditch effort to stretch the 9x series beyond what was viable (it did introduce a number of cool features but they wouldn't be properly implemented until XP).
Also, the whole running joke that Microsoft releases one good version of Windows followed by a crappy one and so on doesn't really add up when you start to look at it in detail, not because they don't do that shit but rather because it's not as predictable and neat as one good - one bad: 1.x & 2.x (before my time), 3.x (bunch of revisions, most good), 95 (good), 95 plus (good), 98 (good), 98 SE (good), ME (bad, awful even), XP (good), XP 64 (bad), Vista (bad), 7 (good), 8 (bad), 8.1 (passable), 10 (good), 11 (passable, or so I've heard).
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to be fair, windows ME was a flop even when it was out. so not really worth mentioning. hardly anyone even had it. it was a rarity for sure
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The problem with ME was the spotty driver support. Where Win 98 worked quite well with drivers meant for Win95, ME did often not work so well with drivers meant for past iterations of the Win9X line. If you had hardware that had good driver support in ME, then you would most likely have had a pretty smooth experience running that OS, if you did not, then say hello to system instability. But ME was ultimately a pretty pointless release, it wasn't a big step up on 98, and it would soon be replaced by XP (though XP at launch did have its share of issues, and you would, at the time, hear people say that they often ran dual boot, with both XP and 98 installed, because 98 was still the better OS for gaming)
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I'll have to go with what others said and disagree with your list.
windows 95* was garbage
Windows 95 had more than a few issues, but it was, at its time, a big step up on the Win3.X line in most regards, and was pretty well regarded.
windows 98 was life changing
On the flipside, Windows 98 was not a big step up, but a small, but significant, improvement on what came before it. It wasn't that uncommon for people to view 98 as a pointless upgrade, but it was a far more stable OS. It was followed by Windows ME, which was a mostly pointless release, that has a bad reputation thanks to spotty driver support.
windows 2000 was garbage
Windows 2k was actually quite good at what it was meant to be used for. It wasn't a OS that was primarily meant for the home user, who just wanted to play some games and run Word, but was meant for corporations, schools and servers. 2k was a part of the Windows NT line, and not the Win9X line.
windows xp was life changing
XP became a great OS with time, but at launch it did have its share of issues, but after a few updates it would become the main OS for a while. It was really a continuation of the NT line, rather than the 9X line, but it was meant to be used by home users.
windows vista was garbage
Vista had a bad launch, but did at the end of its life become a respectable OS. But the damage was already done.
windows 7 was the best and life changing!
Windows 7 built upon Vista and can be viewed as what Windows 98 was to Windows 95, if Windows 95 had had a botched launch. It wasn't such a big change.
windows 8 was horrible garbage
The big problem with 8 was that it was trying to do too much at once. Strip away the poor UI and what you had was a pretty decent OS though.
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Im on win 10 and i tottally disagree, its not life changing, heck far from amazing.
I just had to format my pc again and was reminded how much i struggled to debloat and turn off nonsense from it (also reminded of how much i cant). Like 80% of the issues i ever have on my machine are because of win 10 arbitrary nonsense. Heck theres settings i turn off almost daily the os decides to turn back on. I managed to disable windows auto-changing settings ive choose more then once in the past but lo and behold any minor update it goes back at it again- its such a headache all the registry and patching gymnastics i just got used to every now and again opening i shortcut ive made to toggle shit off again.
That is the epitome of bs. Use preferences, you say do this, windows say f-u 'oh you might have done that by mistake. Here let me put the 'right' settings for you back again. Daily'
I use windows 10 out of necessity, wish i didnt had to. And from all ive seen windows 11 went further that path not the other way around.
Win 11 or a future win 12 only make me anxious- i know someday i will have to swallow some worse frog to use current software i still hate microsoft for that. When the time comes hopefully there will be some user made 'debloated windows' 11-12 version i can use instead, fingers crossed.
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its such a headache all the registry and patching gymnastics i just got used to every now and again opening i shortcut ive made to toggle shit off again.
frankly curious - what are those hellish features you fight so hard to disable? I am using Win10 both for work and for home use. Really have had no issues whatsoever. I am truly curious what is so horrible that it does, which requires such a tinkering and fighting to disable?
Because personally I think all this hate is a tad blown out of proportion.
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Telemetry. Background upgrade checks, background indexing, windows defender file scanning, whatever the hell microsoft sends(uploads)...
To give some clarity, my setup is a frankenstein- modern in some part, older parts like hdd, i did what i could in my budget and my system runs well but its noisy. I can literally hear when my pc starts using the HD or cpu beyond what it should be using and i can see it too (in case of hd for example my mouse can even lag)
So i check things and its always windows. I just formated my system never installed xbox and disabled windows gaming, there is windows gaming running. Defender running on high hd use and cpu even tough i told it today not to. Heck i just found out windows been opening calculator and its photo app (wich btw i never opened, i installed another program for that)... and its always trying to talk with home- either i disable all and every update (wich id rather not) going really deep in out of the way for doing so (registry, restarts, finding and disabling policies and or windows schedulle) or i can see windows ignoring what ive chosen in settings- for example if its set not to check for updates by itself nor download then in the background why it keeps doing so?
I walk a fine line with my setup, i can run some heavy games and do heavy work all fine but im prone to performance and heat issues. I can literally see 'wait, why this game isnt hitting 60 fps like it usually does?' or working my temperatures being higher then they should. So i start the old dance of checking things up until i catch windows 'features' i had already disabled doing their nonsense again
Some of that i will end up disabling fully eventually (if im still able too, hope current version still allows it) like i did in the past, but i dont even know how to. Its like a whackmole, i think i disabled everything that affects me but then theres something else (and many times its not clear, like windows processes that should run anyway but not behaving like that). A lot of things require multiple changes to disable- settings, registry, policies, scheduller... you do all of that for one thing and it comes back, and then i find out another scheduled something is used to turn those on...
Maybe i would worry less if i had a more powerfull machine and didnt 'notice' it, but i do. Random mouse lags and heavy disk usage, or the difference between my gpu at one point turning the pc off (overheat) vs not...
And its all the more infuriating how they make it all obnoxious to handle. In the past, previous versions to other windows there were some of that but it was a single setting change on actual settings. Now the settings you check on/off do almost nothing, its always 2-3 or more fiddling and finding out - until some update change then back.
Windows defender is a particularly funny case- you can try it, go into windows security and toggle off 'real-time protection'. some hours later check it again, it will be turned on. The time varies, usually takes awhile (hours) but once ive seen it turn it back on in like 10 minutes or so.
And its not in my head- i notice the system under performing i already know the probable culprits and there i go unchecking settings again. Am i really blowing things too much?. Idk about you but that doesnt make me feel like i have control over the machine and os i paid for (yeah, the irony, i paid for windows)
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I hope that we will be able to launch Steam from win7 after these terrible 100 days..
😢
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also there was never a Windows 96 but Windows 95, which in its time was amazing.
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Anyway you can always use windows 7 as a virtual machine using vmware or virtualbox
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I'm more annoyed by the fact that there's no option to opt out from the updates than them no longer supporting W7, if they had made an LTS release of the old version of the client and said "ok, this one will work for at least a year to give people some time" then it'd be fine as far as I'm concerned.
I've partially made the jump to Windows 10, will have to do the same with my other PC soon. But this is one solid excuse for people to start switching to Linux for good.
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Windows 7 is out of support for eight years, you guys already had all the time you need.
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Yeah, but I'm lazy, have considered that?
And on a more serious note. There's some PCs that simply can't be smoothly upgraded to Windows 10/11 due to driver support or whatever but are still viable for playing old, era appropriate, games. In fact sometimes they're better at running said old software, and some of those games that are a headache to run on W10 but run fine in W7 are still actively being sold on Steam.
For example I have an old (more than a decade at this point) netbook that has shit driver support for anything other than W7 because that's the OS it was sold with and they didn't bother to make drivers for any other version of Windows, despite that I was still occasionally using it until somewhat recently (last time was in January I think) for some games because it has a really nice screen, the battery still lasts like 3 or 4 hours of continuos use despite its age, is small enough to just be held like a slightly heavier tablet, and it ran some 2D games from the mid to late 00's and even early 10's perfectly fine, and my backlog still has a bunch of games that fit that description. This doesn't mean that I can't use the much newer W10 laptop I'm currently using to write this reply to play those game, because I do, but it was nice to have the option.
I imagine I'm not the only one here still holding on to old hardware simply because it still works fine. Now that I think about it I have a desktop PC that's at least 15 years old stashed away somewhere and an even older one that might also work.
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I wonder then why don't you bother the hardware vendors instead of Valve.
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You can't just push away 1 million users like that just because Steam needs Chrome and "Security Issues" with older O.S. It's easier to lose all your items because you added some guy that felt into some click bait and makes a chain as we have seen here.
Someone needs to be reasonable and keep the "garbage" working and Valve has the time and money for this. There has to be some sort of secret agreement for this move.
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Valve isn't a charity. Support of outdated systems costs time and money. No one likes to support the outdated "garbage". Those who should be really resonable are users who ignore security guidelines and use unsupported and insecure OS for eight years.
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There are no actual risks unless you need the maximum security, like being a bitcoin miner, doing lots of bank transactions through your PC, something like that. If that was the case I wouldnt even install Steam, I don't feel that software is even safe since It can't detect that malware that takes control of Steam Guard.
We have seen that here, It would be great to know If they were using the latest and greatest Win 10/11 security crapdates. The security Issues arguement is total bullshit. And yes, Valve is no charity but It's gonna lose money with this move. Not enough to move the date for another year that's for sure.
I keep telling the same shit over and over again. I guess I'm on Sundance OCD list.
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I'm sorry but your understanding of security risks is quite inadequate. Neither your bold statement about Valve losing money because of getting rid of Win7.
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off topic fun fact, she wrote an amazons best seller book
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I was not gonna bump the thread anymore but now I'm curious about the title.
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Linux, yes. I have been thinking of the same, though for mostly unrelated reasons. But I am not sure about gaming on Linux yet. Also, according to what I have researched in the past two days, native Linux games have bad forward compatibility, worse than windows. But it has great support for running older windows games, better than windows. Kinda weird.
Anyway, I am still undecided since I need the system for more than just gaming.
Any distro recommendation?
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I haven't used Linux in years, last time I dabbled into it was around 2018, so I couldn't recommend any specific distro nowadays. Although if it's going to be your first time using Linux I'd suggest either an Ubuntu based distro or Mint because they tend to be the most beginner friendly. I'd also suggest some patience and willingness to experiment, if you don't like a distro just try another one.
About running native games, yes, it can be pretty confusing to figure out what's wrong sometimes, but I think Steam usually does a decent job at finding and installing all the necessary dependencies. Although the fact that many publishers farm out the porting job to external studios and then stop providing support after release doesn't help much. And about Linux sometimes running older Windows games better than Windows itself it's all thanks to how robust Wine has gotten over the years, to the point that I once had a conversation with a friend that was a lot more dedicated to libre software than I ever was about how in some circles they were discussing the viability of porting Wine to Windows itself in order to run some ancient software that ran like crap under Windows's own compatibility mode.
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Wow, and lol (for the Wine thing)!
Well, I was thinking of Ubuntu, Pop or Mint. I believe the latter two are based on Ubuntu, right?
I recently realized that there are no good CAD alternatives in linux. So, I might be putting off the transition to linux right now, or might dual boot. Regardless, things have gotten a bit busy for me recently, so I'll come back to it in a few days.
Oh, also, any idea about nVidia drivers availability and stability on linux?
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Yes, Mint is based on Ubuntu, back in the day it's main pitch was that it was just like Ubuntu but with a more traditional desktop... a very green desktop :P
I'm not familiar with Pop OS but a quick search tells me that it's based on Ubuntu too, so it should have access to all the same repositories and support for .deb installers.
At the end of the day Ubuntu is just Debian with looser rules about what software can be allowed, which is done for the sake of simplifying the end user experience, and the intention to actually make some money out of their product (basically keeping an optional apps store of sorts and offering paid support for enterprise clients).
About Nvidia drivers it depends on how well supported your particular card is in general, it's the same issue as in Windows where some GeForce cards, the popular ones usually, get really solid drivers and updates for many years while other models are quickly forgotten. It's just that they're even more inconsistent when it comes to Linux.
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I see. That's good info. Also, I have come up with a solution/alternatives for some of the things that were preventing me from switching to Linux. Actually, it isn't really gonna be a switch, rather I am just gonna dual boot one of my spare old faulty laptops, that I use to watch movies. This should make the transition easier int he future, and I can take my time to explore Linux slowly at my own pace.
And I am pretty sure I am gonna go with either Ubuntu or PopOS.
I recently also checked out ZorinOS, and it too seems great, but since it doesn't seem to be popular enough I might skip it as it might be tougher to find answers should I run into issues.
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Looking at your library I'd say you would be fine since you're not heavy on anti-cheat multiplayers. Though gotta add, Microsoft is tend to break AoE II:DE with updates time to time, which you can check on ProtonDB.
If you are new to Linux, I agree with @Axelflox so just go for beginner friendly distros, like Linux Mint or PopOS. If you're experienced, my recommendation would be EndeavourOS.
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Thanks for the info. I have not been playing AoE II recently, so I guess it should be safe.
I started exploring EndeavourOS, and it was like a rabbit hole. I ended up looking things up for a few hours now. It's interesting but definitely not for me, since I am a beginner.
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No problem!
Yeah, it's kind of a minimalist / terminal-centric distro so you should be generally familiar with Linux before use it, otherwise that rabbit hole goes even deeper. :)
I think you should be fine with Linux Mint, it's a safe haven even for some experienced users. After using it for some time and getting familiar with Linux, if you feel you need more or different aspects, then you may search for another distro. Beyond that, most of them are personal preferences.
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Thanks again.
I don't exactly like the looks of Mint (the green on black), so I think I'll go with Ubuntu or PopOS. Honestly, now it seems that all 3 are very similar and going for any won't make much of a difference from technical pov, so will just decide based on the looks and the pre-installed apps (less bloatware, more of what I actually use).
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Well, it should have many themes pre-installed so you don't have to use it green-heavy. I think you would be more happy with Mint on the long run because Ubuntu tries different things (still a solid distro though). However since you're a beginner, you cannot know without trying so maybe things would be different for you.
There is this website to help choosing distros, so you can look into it. Could be useful.
Also, at least for beginning, don't worry about pre-installed programs, most of the time they're more helpful than being bloat. There are distros without a graphical wallpaper picker, so there is no end on bloat. :)
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Thanks! Tried that website. It looks good.
Now have more options to choose from 😅😅
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It's why I've been wanting to save up for a Steam Deck, seeing as I still use Win7.
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thats what i did... its not really worth it. i really should have just purchased a laptop as my current one is on it last legs and was inherited from my grandma when she died.
Steamdeck
it can play AAA games but only at around 20 FPS anything higher and it will kick out so much heat you would think it was gonna melt
plugging it into a monitor will reduce the heat output
still tons of bugs on the deck
buttons ware out faster then an xbox controller
¯_(ツ)_/¯my used wii u runs better then a steam deck
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nods Truth be told, most of the game I want to play on a SteamDeck aren't really AAA heh as they consist of games like Amid Evil, Dusk, Payday 2, and American Truck Simulator.
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You felt into the hype train. Everybody seems to love the Deck, but a laptop or a desktop is miles away at the functionality/longevity department. Do they even have cheap spare parts from third party vendors yet?
As long as there's some extra dough the Steam Deck seems like a nice toy but It's not the best first option.
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got it cause i have back problems and needed something i could play well lying down, and i had already finished all 13 games that are on the wii u. it works for me, if your not buying it for easy travel gaming or lying flat on your back, not worth it
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In that case It was a great option. You could also make a setup with an used 32 inch tv and desktop PC with Proton near the bed if the room allows It. That would be as dope as the Deck.
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It depends. Deck is the best hardware I have purchased in a long time, maybe ever, and wouldn't swap it for any laptop. It is getting used as much as my desktop. It's not the most powerful in terms of specs, but it has great software and UI and that is the main selling point for me.
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but a laptop or a desktop is miles away at the functionality/longevity department.
They are also more expensive, heavier and less convenient. As everything, handhelds have their own market and in my opinion steamdeck just made the handheld market more popular. Personally for me steamdeck is working perfectly well and has been a great addition to my laptop and desktop.
It has its uses and frankly I think it does them very well giving you a brilliant price/performance.
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I wrote a long word once but accidentally reloaded it and it disappeared.
So it seems to help no one fall asleep.😂
In any case, the accumulation of information is becoming both an asset and a luxury or fat, and we continue to live in an era in which we cannot do what we want to do on our computers without building barbed wire, traps, barricades, and concrete walls in an empty field of security measures.
GitHub - felixrieseberg/windows95: 💩🚀 Windows 95 in Electron. Runs on macOS, Linux, and Windows.
https://github.com/felixrieseberg/windows95#should-this-have-been-a-native-app
I feel that at times like this, this kind of feeling thing will probably reappear.
However, a more legal way should be posted considering that in some countries it might be against the law to use it.
Is it correct to use HYPER-V for Windows 10Pro?
There are many ways to stop the extra features of Windows 10 in the first year or two after the OS is released, so I guess I would have to use them first.
How to Create and Run Virtual Machines With Hyper-V
https://www.howtogeek.com/196158/how-to-create-and-run-virtual-machines-with-hyper-v/
Disk2vhd - Sysinternals | Microsoft Learn
https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/downloads/disk2vhd
🙄
In any case, I recall a similar situation after the days when Windows 2000 was revered as a god.
History repeats itself, forgotten.
But there are always lessons and hints in the past.
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I remember people getting quite upset over when Valve dropped Windows XP support. There were (and still are) a lot of games on steam that run well under XP; so why force people to switch?
At some point it becomes too much of a resource drain to keep compatibility with legacy OSs, and there's a cutoff point where it's no longer seen as worth it to keep up legacy support. Guess Windows 7 is at that point for Valve now. Besides, running an OS that no longer receives any security updates seems pretty risky, so even if later OSs are not outstanding, I would personally recommend upgrading for that reason alone.
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If you support an OS you have to make sure your software runs on it, and that takes time and money. So they already have MacOS, Linux, WIn 11 and Win 10. So I understand they would drop 7, it triple checks out once M$ themself drops support of it. If the OS itself might be unsafe to use, why support it further? If anything, everyone should be angry at M$ since it's their damn product! Also what happened to Win 10 being "the last" Windows? My guess is they wanted a +1 over Mac ...
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I still use Win 7 with my near decade-old PC. It's not worth updating this or installing a new OS. If I can't use steam after Jan 1 I'll play through my Gog collection, physical CDs and emulated stuff.
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Got Win 8 on my laptop when I bought it (2014, I guess, so it's 8 years old), updated it to 8.1 and it's still alive and kicking. Of course, heat and aging of plastic (hard parts are getting brittle and softtouch is peeling off) are issues, but it works! And I'm sure it will for some time. And I just can't buy another one. At least decent one (to my opinion). So, it seems that gog and some abandonware games are my friends.
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If you have Windows 8.1, why not upgrade to 10? Driver issues?
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That too. And I'm afraid that Win10 will be too much for my laptop. 10 requires more resourses - faster and better CPU, more RAM (I've got 16 Gb and it's fine for 8.1 right now, but with 10 I'm not so sure), SSD (I don't want it - the technology is too young for me, risk to lose all of my personal data is too high). And if anything happens, I won't be able to downgrade back to 8.1.
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CPU (judging by the age) and RAM should be fine, but yeah an SSD is recommended.
I use an SSHD which is much more similar to a HDD than an SSD, and often it's a pain.
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CPU is i5-4200M. RAM should be fine, sure, but I'm afraid that's it. I should check the specks though. Maybe I'm in for a surprise XD
You see, my first two drives were SSHD. And they satisfied me - pretty fast and decently priced (a bit more expensive than HDD, sure, but faster). But when my second SSHD died, I just couldn't find another one! I checked some marketplaces, but to no avail - all I could find were server-class SSHDs, which are too big (3,5' I guess) and too expensive. So, I had to settle with readily available HDD which IS the pain.
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There's a way to prevent the Steam client from self-updating btw...
1. Close Steam
2. Create a text file in your Steam installation folder and rename it to "steam.cfg" (without the .txt extension)
3. Paste into the text file:
BootStrapperInhibitAll=Enable
BootStrapperForceSelfUpdate=Disable
4. Save and close the text file.
5. Restart SteamComment has been collapsed.
- Paul Thurrott's blog: Microsoft Quietly Kills Free Windows 10/11 Upgrades from Windows 7/8
- Announcement by Microsoft: Windows Ends Installation Path for Free Windows 7/8 Upgrade
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i paid to downgrade to 7 from an 8 and 10
made one pc that was unusable work and my main pc im on now
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To be fair, according to Valve's own hardware survey only 1.29% of all users are still on Windows 7.
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thats just people that agree to the hardware surveys
ive had 4 older side pcs/laptops in the last 15+ years that all have had steam installed
never once agreed to do the survey
cause of the steam ui update i cant use my laptop anymore for steam games. valve support was worthless and to be honest they stopped supporting windows 7 users last ui update. had the black screen bug and they told me i needed to update my pc. ive had to re-log into steam about 3 to 6 times a day every time i use it for years to get the black screen to go away so i could see my games even when offline. the steam store always worked fine tho
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each day valve makes it harder and harder to use the old UI, get the fuck out of here with that (╯°□°）╯︵ ǝɹɐʍʇɐolq
also where is my steam music player....?
https://steamcommunity.com/groups/Windows7ForeverUpdateNever
obligatory giveaways https://www.steamgifts.com/giveaway/mW45?/pumpkin-jack a
https://www.steamgifts.com/giveaway/D?dXy/strider-sutoraida-fei-long 2
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