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Everyone deals with bullshit when they play online games. Male, female, it's irrelevant.
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Everyone deals with bullshit when they play online games. Male, female, it's relevant.
Fixed your post.
If it's something that affects everyone, why wouldn't it be relevant?
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what i'm finding truly, kinda ...terrific, is the distance between our points of view.
pretty normal stuff, you might say, still... surprising, here!
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for Incariuz is irrelevant what for you is just the opposite.
and i picture this one title each and every time this happens (quite often, here and elsewhere):
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I think it's an illustration of outlook, experience, and actionable change.
For Incarius, the view is, "we all have to deal with the same bullshit, that's just the way it is."
My perspective is, "we all have to deal with the same bullshit, so let's work toward changing said bullshit."
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nice.
have a question for you. you can read, here around: "most people sucks / are assholes, IRL and online". how do you see/read it?
i don't usually ask myself that kind of things, but if asked, i'd say the opposite... not cause of stats/calculations... just a way of seeing the world, kind of.
edit: " illustration of outlook" <3 !
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You shouldn't assume a persons outlook or way of thinking based on a sentence. Personally I do think things need to change, I find the behavior of many in online games to be childish and unacceptable. However, my thoughts on how to achieve change is something most don't agree with.
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I'm saying gender is irrelevant.
That said, I do think people need to just ignore the bullshit and move on, but I'm well aware not everyone has the same outlook as me and that's fine.
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The problem is that there is a difference. Male players aren't harassed in a way that is relevant to their gender. So, for example, a player doesn't do what the other person wants and they are a noob, etc. If the same player knows that the player is female then the whole insult changes to something that is gender specific or the person gets harassed in other ways because of their gender. It's a difference that is very important. It goes to a cultural problem where there is subtle sexism (and sometimes not so subtle).
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It's not a cultural problem, it's not acts of sexism, it's a targeted approach to getting under someone's skin. The people who do this crap simply want to illicit a negative response, that's it. They want to piss people off, hurt them emotionally, break them down, belittle them. They don't care if you're male, female, straight, gay, bi, black, asian, white, etc etc etc. They simply target an individual in a way they feel they'll best illicit the response they want. It's all about creating a power dynamic, and people need to stop fueling it by letting it get to them.
I'm sure someone will tell me I'm victim blaming, or some other nonsense, but seriously... It's the internet, they're just words, and words only have as much power as we allow them to have. I've had my life threatened numerous times, threats of rape despite being male, threats on my family, insulted to all ends, etc etc etc... However, I never let it get to me, I typically just laugh, or on occasion give a witty remark, and what happens? People just stop bothering. It's not just me either, I have plenty of friends and family, male and female I've convinced to laugh it off, and they have much less issues as a result.
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You are completely missing the point. You could say the same thing about any sexism or any form of insult. Attacking someone through their race is racist. It doesn't matter what the intention of the person making the insult is. It's the same with sexism. Insulting someone because of their sex is sexist. Making lewd comments about a woman is sexual harassment. Of course it's not the same as a physical assault but that does not mean that it's not sexual harassment. Just look at the name and make one guess what is describes.
I don't think you are victim blaming. I think you are making excuses for the people who get up to this sort of stuff.
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You're completely missing my point. It happens to everyone (lewd sexual comments and all), these people don't just target women. Now if you think I'm somehow defending these people, you really don't get it, in which case all I can say is this is clearly a pointless discussion.
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I understand your point. There are horrible people. They say bad things to others. What makes something sexual harassment isn't what the person intends. The point is not what their intentions are, the point is what is being said and how it is received. So the intentions of the people doing the harassing aren't relevant for the most part.
For example, a guy might have been raised to think that there isn't anything wrong with slapping a girl on the butt. If he does it and a girl is offended then it's sexual harassment.
You are making excuses for them by trying to explain their behavior. If they get reported for said behavior then they should get banned. It's not up to the people getting harassed to ignore the behavior.
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Did I ever say not to report them? Or that what they were doing wasn't wrong? That they shouldn't get banned? I'm explaining their behavior to make people understand it's not personal, it's just some douchebag being a dick to whatever target he found that day, and to not let it get to them, instead just move on. By all means, block communicatiions, report them for their behavior, etc etc. Just don't sit around playing the damn victim, rise above.
That said, I'm perfectly aware of how sexual harrassment and shit works (it's a broken rule set), I simply wasn't clear enough with my words I guess, since that's your main attacking point on my argument. Ok, this is more along what I meant.
The people aren't inherently sexist, racist, or w/e. They simply use targeted insults and harassment for what they deem effective results.
If you don't get what I'm getting at from this, I don't know what else to say, but this is sincerely my last comment, I'm not going to continue to try and convince you I'm not defending the fools, or making excuses for their behavior. You'll believe what you choose to believe. Nitpick a poor choice of words while glossing over the entire context all you want.
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TBH, no matter what your gender is youre gonna get a "sck my Dck" or "im gonna f*uck u" if you play online games.
On the other hand if online interactions is everyday more like IRL then you cant go to a shady as fuck place (general chat) and expect to be treated like in a familiar friendly place (friend chats)
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I can relate to that.
I was raped countless times in quake 3/quake live.
Now I feel free to teabag anybody I want. Gender is irrelevant.
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Everybody is insulted in games. It doesn't matter what your gender is.
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That is really shitty behavior and it makes so many girls get away from online gaming and stick to single player games only
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I used to be really sensitive online and think everyone should treat others the way they like to be treated, and then I learned that's not how it works and I grew a thicker skin. Rather than get upset with assholes in multiplayer games, I just trolled them. Sometimes they would message me asking for bikini pictures. I would be like "okay" then google "fat chicks in bikinis" and send them the worst one I could find. Puke inducing images of ultra large women with rolls upon rolls of fat. The huge women from TV that wanted to be 50 stone. That kind of crazy. They'd never ask again.
Also... this happened to me:
moron]: R u a girl bby?
shannon]: Well... I have moobs!
shannon]: R u pretty cuz nice girls aren't usually pretty, but I think you might be an exception.
moron]: moobs? as in massive titties I can titty fuck or in terms of what?
shannon]: No, ugly as hell.
moron]: Do you have a social media account?
shannon]: Moobs = man boobs, you dumbass!
shannon]: I don't do social media
moron]: UR NOT A GIRL???????????????
shannon]: HAHAHAHAH!
moron]: GO FUCK A DUCK!!!!!!!!!!
shannon]: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
----You cannot whisper this player -----
EDIT: On saying the above, I did get threatened with rape once. I destroyed a guy's city after he first attacked me. I mean, in this particular game, I was a high profile player (top clan leader) and if he didn't want to get destroyed, he should have attacked someone smaller. He sent me pages upon pages of graphic details on what he was going to do to me. I reported him, and he got banned. Poetic justice.
These days, I don't do multiplayer clan type games. Not worth the hassle or the time imo.
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I learned that's not how it works and I grew a thicker skin
Thank you.
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Not sure why you're thanking me. I still don't believe that it SHOULD be that way. I still don't say things to people that I wouldnt say to their face. If someone that I knew personally said some if the things strangers say online, I'd never ever speak to them again. I just learned to not care about losers on the internet, that doesn't mean that it should be happening.
I was once incredibly naive. I went through a lot in real life and it left me vulnerable. I didn't know what to expect from the internet at first. (15 years ago) I was always nice to people because it was the way I was. People took advantage of this both online and in real life. I was bullied badly in school, so I kinda just accepted abuse and forgave the abusers over and over.
I am no longer that person. I have too much respect for myself now that I am in my 30s. Life teaches you things. Ive met people who taught me how to stick up for myself. One lady in particular whom i became friends with online and is still my friend over 10 years later, was kinda vital in helping me be a stronger person. I don't agree with bullying others online or otherwise, just because you can.
Please don't thank me because I really wasn't validating shitty behaviour.
Me trolling men who harass me could also be seen as shitty behaviour... But it was my way of coping with stupidity. Haven't played any clan games in almost 10 years now and I don't miss it. Don't think I will ever play one again. Its not just the harassment that turned me off. It's the need to log in all the time, to commit to a team. I was always in a leadership role and I get addicted to games too easily. Better ways to spend my time. :D
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Women play games? When did this happen? Next you'll be telling me that women can vote and drive cars.
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If a guy is called a bitch and gets upset he is salty.
If a girl is called like that she is harassed.
Maybe keep your real life emotions out of the games.
P.S. Most of my gamer guy friends pretended at least 1 time to be a girl online.
Who the hell even knows if i'm a girl or a guy? Just because i say so?
Bitches shall be bitchin'
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If a guy is called a bitch and gets upset he is salty.
What you've just described is toxic masculinity; the whole "man up" ideology. Men constantly propagate this among other men. It is a part of the problem.
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I've never had an issue with being called a bitch. Its happened countless times and it never bothered me. Probably even used the c word on me and I hate it, but never called it harassment. I'd just think of the guy who said it as being trash is all. Problem is that some guys have to take that a step further and go on about sticking tampons in bleeding places and so on and so forth. Some men can be hideous. Now, the guys who say these things are very few and far between. I have found MOST people to be decent enough. Smack talk is all fine and dandy until it crosses a line.
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cyan ?
Curvaceous :3 or just courageous?
Jokes aside, I'm pretty sure you're a big grill and can get over being called a casual <3
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Oh, I don't get upset by it. However, I have reported people who crossed the line, and they got banned. One was a very detailed threat to find and rape me.
I had a friend in-game where the threats against her went into real life. Guy got in his truck and travelled across several states taking photos of himself next to signage to prove that he was on his way. Eventually arriving in her town. She was terrified. She didn't share any info with him on her real name or location. She called the police and went to a friends house just in case. He may only have known her general location, but it was still unacceptable.
That's not the only bad thing that happened during my time with multi players.
I've been threatened online myself by a guy who turned out to be a 16 year old punk. He hacked a website I was staff on and found info on me including my real name, my location and so on. A friend of mine is an ethical hacker and he helped me track him down. It was all legal, no hacking actually happened just using info we had on him already. He was sloppy. I'm pretty tech savvy myself, but my friend had a few tricks knowing how hackers, or script kiddies think. We turned the tables. I got him banned from his VPN (oh yeah, I really did that) and he was begging us not to contact police because he already had a record. You could smell the poopy pants through the computer screen. You know what his excuse was? "She's a female administrator, and I was just trying to prove that she wasn't qualified by scaring her a bit." I was not scared of him, just icked by the shit he was saying to me.
I could probably write a book on all the crazy things that happened to me online over the years both as a gamer, forum moderator and a site admin. Some creeps don't want women in positions of "e-power." It threatens their manliness. Lol
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That sounds pretty scary, when being nobody is actually better because it attracts none of such attention :|
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Did you learn anything from this experience?
Nope.
Sounds about right
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so glad I rarely play multiplayer games
and when I do, it's usually mute just because I prefer to play in silence, I mute all games
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I feel really sorry for the actresses who have to do porn movies with that guy.
Anyway this thread kinda proves the video's point (sadly).
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What about those gamer streamer girls who shout different kind of crazy shit to men? Or men shouting stupid shit to other men? Yeah, get over it woman. You're not unique.
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As a woman, the majority of comments in these kind of threads are so frustrating to read.
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i'm sorry for that, and that's also my cause.
but try to take them just a flow of words, and if you find the air too much toxic for you, just don't keep on reading.
'cause, you know, sometimes best comments remain unwritten...
just kidding! (maybe) :P
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I mean you're definitely right! And don't worry, I'll nope the fuck out of there if it gets too much. Just saying it can be really frustrating, is all. :/
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... far more guys than women are 'sexually harassed' in online gaming, this is a FACT by virtue of the sheer incomparable number of males that play this type of game. this is a non-issue, just a small group of people with an agenda looking to promote themselves. women being sexually harassed in online gaming are a tiny percentage of the number of guys it happens to.
its part of shit talking. if you dont like it, because you find it boring and annoying, disable the text/audio chat or dont look at it. if you feel 'threatened' by the irrelevant throw-away comments of people in another country to you, then turn the game off and easily escape the horrifying, dangerous and life-threatening situation you think youve found yourself in.
trash talking has always been a part of online gaming. lets not pretend its an issue that needs fixing, because its NOT dangerous and its NOT even REMOTELY close to the real world versions of sexual harassment where its genuinely terrifying for some people, and can not easily be escaped or ignored like it can in a fucking online videogame that youve chosen to play and can easily leave or mute the text/audio at any moment.
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sExUaL hArRasSmEnT Is An IsSuE
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once i read this at almost the start
" many women will pretend to be men online to avoid harassment."
i stoped reading... why??
well this text should said this.....
" many women will pretend to be men online to avoid harassment but also many women will take adventage of being women to get the help / items / etc.... because they are women and men will help them always".
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yup first thing i thought when i read that was about all the handouts women get in games. in my 20k+ hrs of online play i have never heard any chick get harassed worse then a dude. ever
online world is toxic. get over it, your not special because ur a female.
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same, instead i see women screaming all over the place to get free items in RPG games like WoW etc....
i don't saw any girl that try to be a male because is scared to being insulted etc....
in fact i saw the opposite from all of them.
the creator of that article never played a single online game, that's the truth and we all (gamers) can see it and know it.
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These are more likely males who pretend to be females. But whatever, morality is not gender specific, we have bad actors on both sides.
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There is a truth to that.
Women can take advantage of that, and some surely do it, and a few may also exploit it. (Of course these "women" could also very likely be males who pretend being females :D)
But many women don't want the extra attention or even bonuses and just prefer to be left alone, hence the disguise of gender. ;)
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many women will pretend to be men online to avoid harassment
so, thanks a bunch, Akzeriuth! was trying to find that piece up here in the description (that I have wrote, btw), the other day, with no luck. and glad you've noticed, maybe for opposite reasons, but still.
i think that bit tells something. but now i'm very curious on "why" that bit was so "strong" to make you stop :D
as per harassment, i don't care if the victim is a man or a trans or even a woman. i've said "for opposite reasons" cause if a woman acts like a man, online, to avoid harassment, is a kinda sad thing in my book... but that's don't even matter. what it matters is that i, as a man, i have no rights to harass her, but i do have the choice, to give her help/items/etcetera and the right to refuse it (and that's smth that continuosly happens, irl :P).
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basically because that "many women" should be "only a few women"
only with that i know that this article it's another piece of shit that just take adventage of the actual social predisposition to get more attention on the article, one article that probably have some truth inside but just exagerate it to get more attention.
specially when some women exploit it being a women to get more attention in games, and they know it, just look all that gamer twitch streamers girls, and look how all or almost all of them, move the body and the cam to focus on her tits when they are wearing some clothes that make you watch her tits.
this article it's a piece of shit, wrote for someone that don't know anything about the "gaming" world.
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I think one of the main problems is being ignorant about how far effects can spiral. This is not about Sally being upset about called a bitch, or Linda getting bored of being sent to the kitchen to make a sandwich. Of course, it's easier to approach problems from the feminist side, and throw in the girls and women as victims than approach the whole issue, partially because of the toxic masculinity side is in complete denial.
The problem in short: instead of realising that we can (could, and should) do against the bully behaviour, it's easier to tell people to man up, get a thicker skin.
if everyone would realise that being a dick is a dick move and raise their kids accordingly, the next generation wouldn't have a problem about not having a thick skin, because we wouldn't have jackasses.
The current mindset is doing nothing against the source of the problem and treats it as natural, instead makes fun of people who get attacked by them.
Many of us have, or will have kids. Of course you can't stop stop XxXPussyraider42XxX from 6 countries away from being a jerk, but at least admitting that it is a problem, and not loudly exclaiming that there is nothing wrong with it ( That you can do nothing against it is not entirely too, and entirely irrelevant) is what all of us can do to make the internet a better place for the future.
There is a huge difference between "cry me a river, grow a thicker skin" and "that is an asshole, don't listen to them". Admitting and recognising a problem is a support that takes almost no time and entirely no money or organizing, but still sends a message of taking a stand. And this is applicable to (almost) every issue.
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What makes me curious is if that sort of behaviour mostly occurs in competitive multiplayer games or if it's just as bad in coop games.
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juiciest bits:
here's the link to video at YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztqLcoaDlHc
plus, find below first
two4 minutes subtitles (free for you! no additional charges! <-- new!)Jena Friedman talks sexual harassment in gaming.
Sexual harassment is a very real problem, and now it's also a virtual problem, as millions of women report harassment in multiplayer online games. Often subjected to explicit messages and even threats, many women will pretend to be men online to avoid harassment. Game developer and author of a guideline on harassment in gaming, Renee Gittins:
I've been harassed when I've been playing games online multiple times.
How do you know if you're being virtually harassed or if you're just being virtually too sensitive?
My emotions have very little to do with it. I've received death threats. I've had really rude and graphic messages sent to me.
Did the person who virtually harassed you face any consequences?
Unfortunately not.
Wow, that is so lifelike.
But is sexual harassment in gaming really a problem? I consulted with an authority. Men.
I know a few female friends that have felt mistreated in gaming. I've seen them be harassed online in front of me.
Things like, "Oh, she's a chick." Uh, "She must not be any good," Or, "Oh, I bet she's got big hooters."
I wouldn't assume somebody would be getting sexually harassed, man or a guy.
"Man or a guy."
Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
What about women? What about them?
How do we reach gamers who spend all their time gaming to stop being so... rape-y?
I think that if they could empathize with the people who've suffered harassment, perhaps they would have a better insight.
Friedman: I wanted to help gamers empathize with the harassment women face, so I created a fully immersive virtual reality sensory experience of what it's like to be a woman. To make it feel authentic, I modeled my game off of recent accounts of sexual harassment and even hired this adult film actor...
It's me, good old Harvey, all right?
...although he didn't quite take to my directing style.
[ Knock on door ] Hey, James, are you hard yet?
After a little pep talk, my game was nearly complete. Now I just needed some consenting but unsuspecting gamers.
-I've been gaming my whole entire life.
-I do get addicted to some games.
-"Tekken," "Mortal Kombat"...
Man: What are your thoughts on PC culture?
-Like, political correctness culture?
-Yeah. It is spiraling out of control.
-If you can't handle it, then get off the Internet.
-PC movement -- yeah, I think that was just bound to happen.
-I think it's a very important and very good movement.
-You can hop on the sue wagon and sue somebody and say, "Hey, I was part of that." I mean, I think that that's unfortunately a big thing going on.
It's partly the victim's fault
Friedman: To prep our gamers for the full female experience, I thought it might be helpful to introduce them to some ...subtle sexism first.
-Let's just do a little twirl. Okay. If it's loose, let me know. The last guy was a little bit, like, just kind of broader in the crotch area.
-Oh, really?
-So this is, like, a remote. I'm sure you're probably used to things like this size in your hand.
-Yeah.
-Pop quiz -- The O-N, what is that?
-Well, it turns the game on.
-Perfect.
-And, yeah. Okay, the on button.
-Sorry about that. Yeah. I could eat you, you smell so good.
-[ Laughs ] Okay.
-I got to get you a helmet. [ Exhales sharply ] Okay, this is, um, not gonna fit your head.
-Do we have a smaller headset? Here, come here. Okay. What size do you think?
-Uh, Probably... He could probably do a women's... a women's medium.
-Okay.
-Turn a 180. Here. I know, like, guys aren't that great at math.
-What do you see in front of you?
-The wood door.
-Great. Okay, have so much fun, and please, don't forget to smile.
-Okay.
[ Door opens, closes ]
...do not spoil too much what follows
(
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