I've been going back and forth on this topic in my mind all night, and I'd like to hear what you all have to say on the topic.

I used to have about $20,000 worth of video games/systems/accessories then two things happened: While I was working away from home, mice got into the collection and outright destroyed a large portion of it (imagine, for example, a mouse nest made out of PC game boxes). What they didn't destroy was filthy (lovely mouse droppings everywhere) and took a lot of cleaning to make better.
I moved what I could salvage into what I thought would be better storage... Then that got broken into about three months later, and all but maybe two dozen of the remaining games were stolen. The thieves also seemed to think it'd be fun to smash up a lot of what they didn't take. sighs

So my question is this. From what I understand of copyright law, aren't we technically purchasing a license to the software when we buy a game, not so much the physical medium (cartridge, disc, etc.)? If I were to download the games which I had purchased back then, but the physical medium was destroyed/stolen, is that illegal?

I had to ask. It's been about five years since that all happened and, while I'm (very) slowly building the collection back up, it's still nothing compared to what it once was, and I miss playing a lot of my old games...

1 decade ago*

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TL;DR.

1 decade ago
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1 decade ago
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TLI;DS (Too lazy Internet; didn't see)

1 decade ago
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[]()

1 decade ago
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TSTR;TITW

1 decade ago
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It's not illegal to have a digital backup copy of games/software, so long you have a legally purchased serial/box, etc. If your serial key is unique and valid, I don't see any harm, even to "No DVD" the game. Copyright isn't an issue unless you reverse engineer the game yourself. Some licence agreements with the software however can forbid it.

1 decade ago
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Well, I did have the legally purchased boxes, cartridges, disks, etc. before they were chewed up/stolen...

1 decade ago
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you need proof for owning license. if those were stolen for example keys on boxes your licenses got stolen in process as well imo... man, i wouldn't want to be in your shoes

1 decade ago
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I think the serial/box only stands as proof that you legally own the right to the software.

1 decade ago
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Much like some claims from crackers: Download pirated game to reacquire what you once legally own but can't no longer due to some inconvenient things.

In my opinion it is a legit reason to do so and also a warning to game developers/game publisher to be more aware of protecting end user ownership.

Thus now we have a way to store our game on cloud computing, external hardware, DRM and etc.

I now pirate game that can't no longer be found on the market or old console, handheld (NES, SNES, N64, GBA)

1 decade ago
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Still Illegal, though it's not like the game companies are gonna come after you. Nintendo's position

Copyright laws still apply to old games, even though they are not in production. The copyright lasts for like 75 years.

Most relevant information to original question though, from Nintendo's faq:

"There is a good deal of misinformation on the Internet regarding the backup/archival copy exception. It is not a "second copy" rule and is often mistakenly cited for the proposition that if you have one lawful copy of a copyrighted work, you are entitled to have a second copy of the copyrighted work even if that second copy is an infringing copy. The backup/archival copy exception is a very narrow limitation relating to a copy being made by the rightful owner of an authentic game to ensure he or she has one in the event of damage or destruction of the authentic. Therefore, whether you have an authentic game or not, or whether you have possession of a Nintendo ROM for a limited amount of time, i.e. 24 hours, it is illegal to download and play a Nintendo ROM from the Internet."

1 decade ago
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In the U.S. the only thing you are legally allowed to do is make a backup (for personal use only) from your copy of the game. Not download.

In that situation I wouldn't tell you what to do though.

1 decade ago
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They would also have to prove that you downloaded the game. How do they prove that you downloaded the full game, and didn't just start it and stop it later?

If you own a legal copy, and the ability to make a copy if you put forth the work, how do they prove that the digital copy isn't one you made yourself?

1 decade ago
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It depends state by state. In Nevada, my friend was told by his internet provider it was even okay to pirate TV shows!

1 decade ago
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gotta build your home with security shit around that collection

1 decade ago
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If I'd known then what I know now... It would have never happened.

1 decade ago
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Technically, you own a license for that one exact copy of the game, but really, no one is gonna go after you for that.

1 decade ago
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It should be ok. After all, you're just getting a usable copy for the license which you already own.
Btw, get rat poison and traps. Also, get a security system, a good one.

1 decade ago
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Regardless of whether that is a valid reason the problem would be in proving it.

1 decade ago
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Yep, and that's a little hard when everything has been destroyed or stolen...

1 decade ago
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Destroyed by your own carelessness, letting mice eat it? Your fault. No legal right to another copy.

Stolen by some unknown force? Not your fault, but still no legal right to another copy. You do have the right to collect a replacement from the thief, if he is identified. Not even a prison term can nullify your right to collect from him what he owes to you. And where the law fails, there are extrajudicial means of extracting justice from someone if you're creative.

Stolen from a storage facility? Look into what the facility's security policy is toward this. They may be required to replace any stolen merchandise up to a certain monetary limit, though I have known places where this is only true if you pay extra and declare any items which are to be insured in this way.

A physical copy of a game is a physical copy, where the license to play the game is tied to the physical copy. Many companies even today will replace a damaged copy if you contact them and follow their instructions. For companies which no longer exist, or games which are no longer replaceable (or not made anymore) at a reasonable price, I would suggest piracy. As long as you still possess that horribly damaged copy, you still possess your license to play that game, even a copy you got from someone else.

For games where you buy a physical copy, but you enter your key om Steam and obtain the ability to download your game rather than install from the disc and then update through Steam, you have either transferred your license to the Steam service, or the license is tied to Steam already and the disc is intended for people who wish to save bandwidth.


I had a copy of Ultima 7 which got damaged in the store, and Origin Systems (pre-EA) replaced the disc for me, free of charge. I was not required to send them my disc. I was not required to send them shipping money. They even printed and sent me every tip/guide/faq they had in-house on the game. Good Guy Origin Systems. (NOT RELATED TO ORIGIN DOWNLOAD SERVICE)

I had a physical copy of Diablo II. The Play disc was damaged, the disc which needed to be in the drive in order to play. It wasn't able to be identified by my computer. This was before you could register them to a battle.net ID and download the games from Blizzard. Blizzard sent me a new copy of Diablo II and Lord of Destruction, complete with keys. This cost me no money. Good Guy Blizzard.

I had a copy of Final Fantasy 8 on PS1. Disc 2 wouldn't read. Squaresoft USA requested that I send them the damaged disc, and promised to send me a replacement copy of Final Fantasy 8. I learned that it was just my system getting old, since my friend's system could read it fine. I learned my PS1 could read the disc if I turned the system upside-down (IT WORKS!) and let Squaresoft know that I wouldn't need a replacement after all. Good Guy Squaresoft.

I loved playing Operation: Inner Space, an old Windows 3.1 game that still works today. Problem is, it only comes on 3.25" floppy disks. In 2008, someone at Software Dynamics e-mailed me a copy of the game, with all the extras (today called DLC) after I identified myself and gave them the approximate date of purchase. I keep a copy of it in my Dropbox. Good Guy Software Dynamics.

1 decade ago
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It wasn't through carelessness that my stuff got damaged/stolen. At first, I had my collection in my old bedroom in my mom's house. We never had any trouble with mice that we knew of, so had no reason to suspect they would get in there.
When I reference better storage, I'm talking about a secure (so I thought) and clean outbuilding on the same property. My stuff was packed away in trunks and the whole building was locked up. We virtually never have any break-ins in the area (it's very rural), so again, had no reason to suspect anything would happen, especially not with all the locks...

Anyway, you did get me thinking about things. I may just start writing up a list of everything I can remember having, then contact the companies that made the games and see if any of them are willing to help me. Sometimes, those sort of folks can be really decent about things.

Think I'll start with Blizzard. I had the old Diablo battle chest and Warcraft II - Battle.net edition...

1 decade ago
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No insurance policy at either location?

Anyways, if you own an original copy then it's legal to download a backup as you are a license holder of the software. Storage media is just a delivery format. However, if it came down to a legal matter, you may need to prove you once owned it (receipt, broken media, etc). Unless we are just talking morals and not legalities; if that's the case then pirate away :P

1 decade ago
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In short, no. No insurance. You can see why if you read my response to Cheeseburgermafia's post below. And unfortunately, I have no way of proving I ever owned it, unless some photos of me with my N64 games in the background count, which isn't much...

1 decade ago
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Creating a backup is usually allowed. Downloading it is still piracy.

1 decade ago
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Thanks for the replies all. You've given me a bit to think about.

1 decade ago
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"If I were to download the games which I had purchased back then, but the physical medium was destroyed/stolen, is that illegal? "
Depends in what country you are, or so I've been told.

Anywho here in the US if you don't have your own personal backup and uses someone's backup it's illegal.

1 decade ago
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That... That really sucks. :(

1 decade ago
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Giving a game and getting a profit from it without giving something to the goverment is also illegal. So, steamgifts is illegal too. Because if you giveaway a $10 game, you get +$10 CV, so you actually get a profit that contributes nothing to the goverment... That's why stuff are illegal. The companies don't even care, the ones who cares are the corrupted politicians and the people who are using them... Who own most of the world's big companies of course. So, this rule about getting someone's backup of anything being illegal is illegal... I would tell you to download the games and use your serial keys if you have them. As for very old games, I am not sure... For me, it's not illegal at all, especially since you can't find them at all, beside some folks selling them for thousands of dollars, like they worth anything. I'm sure you can find digital copies on the internet for a very cheap price.

1 decade ago
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A lot of the games I lost are easy enough to come by, I just dislike having to re-purchase everything again. I've been at it for a bit now and haven't gotten more than a tiny but of what I lost back.

Some games got ridiculously expensive too! Take Harvest Moon 64 for example. I bought it for, I think, about $15 complete in box back when the Nintendo 64 was just starting to die out. Nowadays you'd never, ever find one that low.

1 decade ago
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In Italy you can make a Backup copy of the software you bought.

1 decade ago
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I never lost any games, however I think a bigger issue is what would happen to the games when the consoles aren't supported and there is no backwards compatibility. Thus either having the game fade into history or repurchasing the same exact game over and over again. That's why I like how digital distribution is set up, the games are linked to an account and i never need to worry about buying the same game more than once (excluding bundles.)

This also leads to the question of what happens when the person who invested money into the games dies. Who owns the games then?

1 decade ago
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There have been a few cases where I've had no choice but to pirate a few games due to similar circumstances. Some old Commodore Amiga games were amazing, such as a little gem called Lost Dutchman Mine. I've been looking, and haven't found a single copy for sale in the last ten years though. Not even one. Anywhere. Kinda' sad really.

1 decade ago
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The issue of consoles no longer being supported and there being no backwards compatibility has been going on since the very first consoles.

It wasn't until Playstation 2 that we came to expect backwards compatibility in our consoles. Until then, backwards compatibility was only available with PCs, and it's never been NOT available for PCs thanks to various wrappers, patches, loaders, emulators, and recompiling from the source code if you have access.

Heck, thanks to PCs I don't need my old 1980s-1990s Nintendo/Sega/Sony consoles because of emulation. Everything except for the current gen is emulated, except for PS3, XBox, XBox360, Vita, and 3DS. Even my old system with a Radeon HD 5770 could emulate a Wii and a Playstation 2 at decent FPS. USB adapters allow me to even use the original controllers with these emulators. My old consoles get to stay near-mint in their boxes until the Smithsonian calls me.

I picked up a mint-in-box Atari 2600 and modified it with superior switches, cartridge contacts, and a modern video hookup. Emulation can't replicate everything, and for me there's a certain nostalgia to running a real Atari 2600. The switches on the console instead of buttons or in game options are something that just needs to be experienced if you grew up with it.

The NES is better emulated than on a real system, unless you're playing a lightgun game. Save states are awesome, and I don't miss needing to play with the cartridges to get them to run correctly in the system. This is why my NES is still near-mint in its box, complete with all the old plastic and warning fliers.

I'll be right back, gonna go give my NES-001 another back massage. The old man has earned his retirement.

1 decade ago
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I do like emulation of older consoles sometimes, as those games just don't scale well on my TV (40" Hisense HDTV lol). There isn't anything quite like the feeling of an old NES controller in your hand though...

1 decade ago
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1 decade ago
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I've got one for my Playstation/Playstation 2 controllers. Should get these for a few of my oldschool controllers too...

1 decade ago
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Bad Rats

1 decade ago
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i thought there was a hidden giveaway for it here at first lol

1 decade ago
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Closed 1 decade ago by TheRealBeauregard.