Love the username and profile pic btw!

What are your thoughts on Beyond Good and Evil 2 btw?

3 years ago
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Ouch.

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To be fair, I had about the same strong impressions about VtMB2, after seeing its previews [though, in fairness, BG&2 was a lot more overt in being explicitly different from its predecessor, whereas the VtMB2 trailer only strongly implied it was different from its predecessor]. :P.

Ergo it kinda felt predictable, when they recently backburnered/shelved VtMB2. Nor can I say I've been overly interested in BG&E2, either, despite being quite fond of the first game.. At this point it could be just us looking overly deep into some needlessly iffy trailers but, at the same time, it'd be pretty par for the course for both games to either release in a lackluster (or just simply off-IP) state, or to not release at all.

Though, ultimately, the fact that both games keep getting delayed has probably been the most damning reinforcement of our concerns.. After all, ambiguous delays have never been a good sign for a quality release (most especially when such occurs in conjunction with other concerns, such as the iffy trailers here; though even just delays in general are associable with games getting cancelled) and, after us giving benefit of the doubt to CD Projekt recently that delays=better quality and getting burned on that, I think it's fairly natural to fall back on the older delay=low quality/cancellation association.

(Also, don't forget we've been waiting on a BG&E2 sequel since like 2007, when rumors first started floating around about one. So we're kinda burnt on putting any of our hopes into that one to begin with.. >.>)

That said, despite my fondness for the preceeding games, the effect of the trailers at least limited my disappointment to the purely conceptual [ie "the vague concept of a sequel to a beloved game"], as the trailers never really conveyed a true presentation of a direct sequel. With something like Star Wars: 1313, which had a rather appealing trailer, the disappointment at its cancellation was a bit more lingering, given the actual palpable taste of something appealing it gave us, despite it being a new IP concept.

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[This ended up being long enough that I broke it into three posts for easier reading so, don't feel obligated to read through if you don't especially feel inclined to. ^.^;]

I really loved the trailers [for VtMB2]

Eh, really? Everyone among us who enjoyed the first game were super dubious, given the increased focus on action play, and diminished focus on interactions.Add in that it came across a bit clunky.. Again, that could have just been a facet of the trailer itself, so we did hold out some hope for it. But everyone I know stopped playing around with the idea of preordering the game simply because the trailer wasn't a sure-fire thing [as far as convincingly carrying the spirit of the first game].

After all, if we wanted a more action oriented version of the game, we've already got the BloodLust Shadowhunter series to play around with (as most of said friends already have). Besides, we were already disappointed enough when the last narrative-focused WoD game got cancelled, a couple of years back [I forget the name now]..

[and I really loved] the marketing

You may very well be the only one who did. Everyone I know found it completely disappointing, and a quick google search just now finds that to not only be the dominant opinion, but the only sentiment I could find on the topic at all. There are even jokes going around [eg, Reddit] that the firing of the development leads was the most noteworthy marketing the game has had... well, ever.

VtMB is hands-down my favorite single player game of all time, and that from someone who basically doesn't do "favorites" as a concept. It's basically everything I ever wanted out of a single player game. I'm as frothing-at-the-mouth at the concept of a VtMB2 as anyone but, from the start, I've never once had any hopes for the current game.

Again, given that it sunk into obscurity quickly, without meaningful marketing following the trailer/steam page reveal, and that the game has now been benched with the creative leads fired.. seems as though our early concerns have been validated. Not that I'm putting this on the creative leads of the game.. to the contrary, the fact that they've been fired at this point actually firmly reinforces the idea that Paradox [and/or upper management of Hardsuit] is the one who has been bungling the management (including marketing) of the game from the start (rather than the development team of the game).

In other words, it was less an issue of poor designing or commitment to the spirit of the IP from the start, and more an issue of bad management and marketing. Since those responsible for the latter are now apparently all we have left with.. it really, really doesn't bode well for the game. In fact, the only reassuring thing at all are the comments Mitsoda made when he left, which indicated that narrative development had not only been on-track, but had included "some of his best work ever". That's basically all that' sholding my interest in the game, at this point..

So hey, maybe those jokes about the firing being good marketing weren't so insincere after all, huh? :S

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I have the 1st one of those games, I need to play it properly,

All my friends who've played them love the BloodLust games, and all I've seen of them so far has been good. They're definitely not VtMB, though, despite the very dedicated tribute they offer to that game (and perhaps, in some part, also to the preceding VtM: Redemption game). But since I'm a fan of dungeon crawler/diablo-like style games to begin with, I don't lose anything with that game.. though, since VtMB is my favorite game, I nevertheless'd still prefer something more directly related to that game.

Was it a Werewolf one? I think I remember hearing about a Werewolf game being cancelled before

No, that'd be the Werewolf - The Apocalypse: Earthbound game, which did actually end up releasing a bit ago (well, unless you're talking one of the several cancelled Werewolf games from a couple decades back).

The one I'm thinking of was a text-based RPG with dialogue selection. Basically, not so different to the recent storybook games that came out after that one got cancelled (as it's been a few years now since it was cancelled), but with a more complex underlying RPG/interaction/itnerface system.

As I vaguely recall it, it was bascially supposed to be an even more narrative-heavy and character-building-rich game than VtMB, being even more based in the underlying tabletop materials, while still presenting it in a turn-based storybook/dialogue-selection style kinda similar to the Steve Jackson games [for example].

I really hope he can find some way to bounce back from this, some kind of recompense from how he has been so massively wronged.

Don't forget that the orginal VtMB game was actively sabotaged by publisher Activision, who actively withheld necessary resources from developer Troika and forced an early release, even refusing to add-in a final massive pre-release bug-fix patch that had already been prepared. This resulted in a game which was unplayable at release, which led to Troika dying, which led to Activision stealing the full rights to the game [making VtMB one of the most encouragable games to justify pirating on by way of a moral/ethical basis that I've ever seen].

Not sure how heavily hit Brian Mitsoda was by that [in the sense that I don't know if he was only paid by work done or if he had any rights to sale profits that this screw-over ended up costing him] but, all things considered, it must really suck to see two iterations of your efforts on the same IP get screwed over, each due to publisher fuckery, even if the latter screw-over does eventually only end up affecting you personally, rather than your entire studio.

Of course, if this second game doesn't ever release, then it'll be a far worse blow.. at least with the first game, his writing got out there, and he was able to get recognition for it. If his work on the second game is as good as he says it is, then.. well, that loss'd be a painful blow to a writer (and of course to us fans), for sure.

3 years ago
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I remember Dead Island and it's incredibly controversial and "brutally beautiful and tragic" trailer

Yeah, well, not like Techland's most recent Dying Light 2 release is going great either. I'm more surprised Dying Light itself turned out so [puportedly, as I don't own it myself yet] well. On a related note, I think people being able to mod underlying Watch_Dogs settings so that the graphics ended up mostly matching to the trailer for that one was actually the single weirdest trailer fakeout incident ever, since it ended up.. un-faking it out? :P

The real pity there was that Watch_Dogs 2 ended up releasing doing everything right graphically/mechanically, seemingly making up for the previous game.. just before everyone and their dog started chiming in on how disappointing and underdeveloped the characters and narrative were. Whoops.

I mean to mention Cyberpunk too, I was SO HYPED for that with the original teaser trailer years ago with the cyborg woman beign chased and the Anarchy Bullets song, but then they changed it completely and I lost interest entirely. The sheer disaster it has turned out to be says a lot too.

Definitely doesn't feel near as robust as early promises (or its basis on a tabletop RPG and the indication it was going to fully utilize that background) made it out to be. I was similarlydisappointed with the Deus Ex: Mankind Divided trailers, given how they related to the final game. Not that the end game wasn't worth getting but, it really didn't live up to what the trailers promised.

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Honestly Id' say we've been waiting for BGAE2 since 2003 when it released as the 1st game ended on such a brutal cliffhanger.

Sure, but don't forget the game was a commercial failure [I got my own copy for like $5, because stores were liquidating it fairly quickly after release], and we'd pretty much given up on a sequel by 2007.. when they then started hinting at one. So it hurt all the more when that never went anywhere, despite teasers popping up just a couple of years after that. And then it started again a few years back.. and now it's going the same way. This time it may actually get released but, y'know.. kinda drained on it, by this point. It'd have to be fairly darn good to warrant an early buy-in..

pretender/fraud/imposter of a sequel/prequel

Unless they changed it, it's supposed to be a direct narrative sequel. And BG&E2 was always set in a spacefaring-based setting, it was just originally based on a backwater (frontier?) planet. It going that direction wasn't inherently off-IP or bad.. but the trailers clearly had nothing to do with the spirit or gameplay of the original game, whatsoever. Add in all the other concerns floating around the game (starting with how many years it'd been since it was first promised), and "it isn't even the same game" wasn't the best impression to throw out. Later tidbits definitely seemed to reinforce the idea that it was an "imposter" of a game, as well.

The original was a fantastically beautiful, emotional, carefully crafted story and character focused linear experience with a fantastic art style, atmosphere, soundtrack, voice acting, world to explore and so on.

BG&E was interesting in that it had calculated, deliberate, somewhat slow-paced combat, and a sort of puzzle-oriented gameplay. It really played more into being a dedicated adventure game, than ever really dipping into being an action game. A lot of the game was hokey and goofy, by modern sensibilities, but it worked well for the sentiments of the time the game released and, moreover, the underlying characters were deep and the narrative was meaningful, dark, and involved.

A lot of the game hasn't aged well- not surprising for a 2002 release- but the general design concepts certainly could have been reproduced into an appealing modern iteration of the IP. Going off the trailers, though, the new game.. well, at best, maybe plays out like a space based Sleeping Dogs? A lot of pretty scenework and an emphasis on appealing action play, but.. not much narrative or character or setting depth to work with.

Again, we're just working mostly off the trailers for these games, so it's hard to be overly firm in our judgements.. but, really..
I remember once, I saw a preview trailer (for a film or game, I forget which) in a movie theater pre-film and I immediately knew what IP it was, just off the atmosphere, well before any overly identifying elements popped out. You get things like that, which strongly evoke their IP, even just off the trailers. BG&E2.. just, doesn't, regardless of how much it is or isn't actually based in the preceding game. And, to a lesser degree, the same holds true for the VtMB2 trailer.

Unfortunately, without good marketing to reassure us (and even that's a bust now, thanks to CD Projekt ruining our trust in such) there's just no way to reassure us the games will be what we expect them to be. Not that IP off-shoots will necessarily be inherently bad, even if they end up not scratching the same itch as their adored but, again, the overall atmosphere.. hasn't been good. And, even if it was, not like we'd rush out to get a game that just casually shares a setting concept. If that was our underlying desire, we could just collect Assassin's Creed games or something. :P

3 years ago*
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3 years ago
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Thank you for giving BeyondJaded

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thank you

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3 years ago
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Thank you for the giveaway! :)

3 years ago
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TY for giveaway!

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Thank you!

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Thank you.

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ty

3 years ago
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Thank you so much

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Thank you!

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Thanks for this giveaway!!!

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THX for the opportunity:)

3 years ago
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3 years ago
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I would love to game it out!!! Thank You

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ty

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Yesss! I got Act 1 from an earlier bundle and was looking forward to this one so thank you!

(Key worked perfectly.)

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3 years ago
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