What do you think?
I feel much the same the way you do... excited to see movies and/or a tv show telling the Narnia stories... but at the same time extremely concerned they will be altered or added to in an inauthentic way.
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Interesting. I wonder if they'll start with Magician's Nephew and if they'll rehash The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe and Prince Caspian.
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So many things they can do, hope they do it right tho.
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The first two films were directed by Andrew Adamson and the third film was directed by Michael Apted. The fourth film was to be directed by Joe Johnston, but it was announced in 2018 that a new adaptation would be made for Netflix.
That's from the Wikipedia page for the film series, looks like Netflix are carrying on where the films left off.
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as the series went on it got to christian for me mainly the last 2 book. when i was told aslan was a representation of jesus i though they meant in that world not that he was literally jesus.
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It does, particularly the last book goes even further into shit, with the whole afterlife reveal.
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funny the one who turned away gets to live but its rapture so i guess that's supposed to be bad. i guess the take is shes a sinner for wanting to put on makeup and go out?
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I've seen that idea before. I'm guessing that as he got older he went more socially "regressive", if you will.
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it's not the make up which is a problem, but the priority shift
She isn't interested in Narnia or Aslan anymore
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yes, but it literally being his version of rapture and only the "blessed" being taken this is to show turning your back on religion/aslan is a sin worthy enough to be damned for at lest thats what i read into it. the one sinning being female may not be 100% on purpose outside he felt one of them needed to be the "sinner". i point out the makeup because she is only refered to in a few lines and this was talked about and i wandered if it was to demonize females making themselves pretty for the enjoyment of men (jezebels).
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I think people make too much of that, and it's a little unfair considering Lewis's treatment of his female characters as a whole, many of whom are presented as heroic, even more so than the males.
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this was the view of the church for a long time. lewis seemed open minded and why the faith stuff took me by surprise. i'ed like to feel the sin was just turning away from god/aslan and a way to leave it open to write another book maybe about redemption. do to the way the church demonizes women i fell this leaked in to his text. i mean how would you show someone should be dammed with a few lines of text that church goers would understand.
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It was always the intent of C.S. Lewis to make Narnia a (symbolic) re-telling of Christian theology. The Matrix Trilogy was similarly based upon Christian beliefs.
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i try not to know to much about people that make stuff i watch, read, listen to. it tends to not go well and yes i found that out later. i wouldn't have read them if i had known.
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Same as the new "avatar" licence....
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Would totally watch a DeVito version of Tomb Raider
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Lets see how they turn a generally Christianity-based theme into some kind of SJW spin. That should be fun.
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So, you would get rid of Jesus to keep it anti-SJW? ...
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That's a strange what-if scenario. I don't see the point of it.
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Jesus was an SJW. That's why they killed him in the end.
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Why would those same people hate Jesus if he was an SJW?
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I see it is always 4:20 where you are. Go easy on the cookies or you'll get diabetes.
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Lol. You're the one who immediately sees evil SJWs in a product that has barely been announced. Your terminology already shows your way of thinking.
Just remember you're probably only alive and well off because so-called SJWs fought for equality and more rights for the general populace over centuries.
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Social activists fought for equality and rights. SJWs have not and do not, so no. But that's a common argument from SJWs since they like to think they're more than just whiners and communists.
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I very much hope this doesn't devolve into petty bickering, but that seems to be the direction things are headed.
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lol I don't know what makes you say that... Could it be the SJW tourette syndrome or the fact Jesus was mentioned? :P
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What makes me say that is the way the discussion has gone from expressing opinions to hurling insults.
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Isn't it always the case nowadays when words like snowflakes and idiotic acronyms, and religion, are being flung about online?
Seems people can't disagree while respecting other opinions, whether they find them valid or not.
Anyway that was my point. I wasn't being dismissive of the topic, just the form
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Anyway that was my point. I wasn't being dismissive of the topic, just the form
Looking back at your original statement, I am guessing that you were being sarcastic where I was taking you literally. In any case, I agree completely with your sentiment. People are bound to disagree, and have been doing precisely that throughout human history. Recently, however, the younger generations have not been taught how to disagree in a civil manner. Not only have people become intolerant of the opinions of others, belittlement has replaced argumentation. Instead of discussing ideas, it has become commonplace to dismiss and/or assault any differing points of view. In this way, those who lack the capacity to think and present their thoughts to others for consideration are given permission to shout down all opposition.
As the wise man said, "Never argue with a fool; he brings you down to his level, then overcomes you with experience."
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I was being sarcastic, yes. Sarcasm doesn't translate really well in written form. I should gave used a ;) or something
Not only have people become intolerant of the opinions of others, belittlement has replaced argumentation.
Yes, and the fact there are a bunch of people counting on that polarization to make a buck or stay in power doesn't help keep debate civil.
As the wise man said, "Never argue with a fool; he brings you down to his level, then overcomes you with experience."
It gets harder and harder to enter any public conversation (particularly online) without running into quite a few of those on both sides of the argument unfortunatey.
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"Why is artistic license always labeled SJW? " - It's not. It only gets labeled when it actually is SJW, which is noted by a sharp increase in leftist ideologies and a sharper decrease in content quality.
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You don't know ANYTHING about this Narnia project and yet you couldn't resist to start ranting about SJW already. Seems pretty safe to assume that you aren't the kind of person who manages to wait for a final product and then judge its quality unrelated to some messages you might dislike.
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Seems pretty safe to assume that you're the kind of person who couldn't resist getting mad and blacklisted someone related to some opinions you might have disliked. Judging people based on them having valid concerns about the quality of products shows that you don't really know ANYTHING yourself dood.
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Not really a valid concern if your concern is "SJW" - a meaningless term except to those supporting the far right and the weirder corners of youtube.
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Coming from someone that thinks "far-right", "alt-right", and other meaningless terms from the weird corners of someone's butthole are valid statements that invalidate anyone they're directed at.
Goodbye, stirrer.
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Stirring nothing, I'm going by your own use of terms and output. You, however are attempting to make connections that aren't there.
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Enough.
And in case anyone thinks it's safe to follow his example because "he did it, first," my hammer is still at the ready.
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how dare you have a different opinion than mine! i'm a go watch things that only reflect MY opinion to solidify i'm right!
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Didn't you say in a post in this very thread that you wouldn't have read the Chronicles of Narnia if you knew it was inspired by Christianity and/or meant as a Christian allegory?
Seems pretty hypocritical.
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having a jesus like character in stories is normal but in these books aslan IS literally jesus. it didn't bother me until the last few books and by then i already read most of them so i just suffered through. what bothers me is the blind faith crap as you are expected to ignore science and facts because of "faith" and this is a running thing in most heavy religious stories not just christian ones.
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That sounds more of a personal problem if you can't handle things that are different than you expected.
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oh look at you trying to turn my last joke post against me. haha but no! the last books are exactly what i would have expected from a christian story and why i would not have read them because i would have seen it coming. i will say i did enjoy them until the last 2 books and the 2nd to last wasn't a total wash since it explains the creation of narnia.
i also have no issue reading/watching things i don't agree with so i can be informed when i rip them apart.
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the one to bunny? yes
though i don't get your post since i didn't expect anything as i didn't know about the author till after i read the books and it wasn't cause it was "different" it was the blind faith crap religious authors tend to put in their stories. if i had know when i read them i would have spotted these earlier as every book has them but it was like one off things.
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I like the slogan, "Get woke, go broke" when something like that is peddled and it ends up in the trash faster than Marvel comics. Economic suicide and diva devs/directors.
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The DC comic book Border Town is heading in that direction.
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They don't seem to be going broke. Not that DC could go broke anyway but even that comic book seems to be doing pretty well
DC VERTIGO BORDER TOWN IS GOING BACK TO PRESS
Vertigo’s 'Border Town' Back to Press Because It’s Sell-Out Good
I'm not trolling, really. Just curious to know if there is actually examples of businesses losing money because of whatever "being woke" means.
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The point is that businesses sacrifice profit to push an agenda. A good comic would sell 30000 copies or so when comics were meant to be good, instead of the thousand seller and getting dropped after a couple issues.
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Businesses are about making money. You can bet that if they do it, they're making money off it. Obviously most entertainment businesses these days make more money from exposure and publicity than from actual sales (Hollywood would have been out of business 10 years ago if they were counting on their diminishing box office numbers to pay the rent) so I doubt they are going broke. Or even pushing an agenda. They're mercenary.
Now are they "going woke" out of the goodness of their hearts? Most likely not. They're doing it because it makes them money and because it reaches new audiences.
That's why I was curious about the concept. I don't think they're genuinely concerned about diversity, just about appearing concerned but that's because it makes them rich, not broke.
And I do see your point about comics sales. Unfortunately it's a dying medium, despite all their best efforts to make it "current" with movies. There aren't many that sell in the 30K these days. I don't know how Border Town will do but it's just starting and it's doing better than they expected if they are already re-printing. So it's not a failed experiment yet.
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I miss the days when businesses were all about the money.
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That was my point: they still are. It's just better business now to play liberal than it was to play conservative.
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Not at all, but it is boosting businesses who only want to make a profit, like Chik-Fil-A.
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They all only want to make a profit. They're just aiming at different targets. And nobody is going broke
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Man, every peaceful discussion has to end like that with you...
I'm not being dense, you were saying businesses that "go woke, go broke", I was asking for any example and you did not give me any.
I was just saying that even if you don't like it, businesses are businesses. Money-making is their only concern. Some choose to play liberal, some to play conservative but in the end it's all about money.
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Don't be so offended by criticism and brushing off other people like a smart ass. You asked about bad business ideas and I gave you one. Look up Diversity and Comics or Yellowflash comics channels on Youtube and see dozens of videos of comics getting roasted for being so bad, selling even worse, and getting discontinued after a couple issues.
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I'm not offended by criticism, I'm annoyed at myself for trying to have an honest conversation with you again and getting the personal attack dismissal.
You asked about bad business ideas and I gave you one
No, I asked for examples of companies going broke for "going woke". There are plenty of bad business ideas byhealthy businesses which make billions that have nothing to do with politics. Ask Google for glasses.
I still haven't found a business getting in financial trouble for what you call "going woke".
Comic books are canceled every day and they don't necessarily involve politics, or make anyone broke. But the specific example you gave me has just started and seem to be doing well. And I'm not being dense, just disagreeing with you on businesses reasons and the outcome of their fake political moves.
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You asked "Any recent example of this concept?". Not businesses going broke.
I see what your gimmick is and I thank you for the talk.
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Businesses are about making money. You can bet that if they do it, they're making money off it.
Not necessarily. Look at CNN as an example. The only thing keeping them "on the air" is the fact that the people backing them can afford to prop them up while absorbing the loss. (That, and the monopoly they enjoy in foreign markets.)
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Except it's usually not other "takes" it's just adding a bit of "color"/diversity by switching out characters. Sometimes, like with Domino, it works quite well, other times like with FF4, Harry Potter and Spiderman, it's pretty annoying and cringe-worthy to anyone familiar with and or a fan of the base material.
You may be speaking about a different thing if you really think the intent is to further an artistic goal.
I really don't care about this one, but don't really want them "taking liberties" and making characters where their background matters and changing it to make it fit the token minority that they wanted to cast. It's just a TV show after all...
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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I have not heard anyone complain about the idea of a black stormtrooper. On the other hand, I have heard plenty of people observe that Disney has obviously gone out of its way to spotlight women and minorities in Star Wars.
It's not about one character (and personally I think Finn, the "black stormtrooper" is the best of the new lot), but the overall lot. If it wasn't bad enough that they have been stumbling over themselves to signal their inclusivity, they also feel that they need to denigrate white men in order to elevate women and minorities.
Consider that the two most iconic white men in the Star Wars universe, Luke and Han, are shamed and humiliated throughout the new movies. They are revealed to have made countless mistakes (especially Luke) and have basically reverted to their pre-New Hope stage. All of the growing up they did? Gone. All of their heroic legacy? Meaningless.
Meanwhile, Luke, who was the greatest Jedi of all time, is upstaged by an overpowered Mary Sue character in Rey who seemingly is amazing at everything, has no need for training, and has no apparent weaknesses. Not only does this nobody outshine a Luke Skywalker, but she goes on to handily defeat and humiliate a trained swordsman and force users (Kylo Ren) the very first time she turned on a light saber.
Kylo Ren, of course, is one of the small crop of white male characters who seem to be included merely to be humiliated. As noted, despite having extensive force training and light saber training and experience as a fighter, and having the Skywalker bloodline, he is beaten easily by an untrained newbie in her first fight. He also is shown to be a needy, emotionally unstable crybaby throughout the movies. We also have Admiral Hux who was mocked extensively by Poe at the start of The Last Jedi as if he were not a legitimate villain.
Also, despite having a black stormtrooper, he is the only minority we actually see amongst the New Order ranks. The film makers, despite their push for diversity, left any other visible members of the First Order as white, making it hard to not see the stories as "evil white group (mainly men) versus diverse hodge podge of women and minorities."
The only white male of any note amongst the resistance is Poe Dameron. When he is introduced, his notable character trait is that he is one of, if not the best, fighter pilot in the galaxy supposedly. And yet, this seems to be nothing more than a setup so that when Rey comes along and upstages him, despite having little or no experience (again), it makes her seem even more amazing. Likewise, he spends most of the second new movie frustrated and humiliated (like the audience) as he is repeatedly denied some kind of dialogue with Vice Admiral Holdo. How dare he want to know about the plan or make suggestions?!
Oh and Leia is not just a force user now (despite again, no known training), but she can fly and breathe in the vacuum of space.
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Not to rain on your parade but Oscar Isaac's real name is Óscar Isaac Hernández Estrada so you can add Poe to the list of poor white men triggering characters...
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You seem to be the one who is triggered considering you feel the need to blacklist someone over a detailed analysis of a movie which you apparently have no counter-critique of.
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If you are on my BL, it was prior to this discussion. I never blacklist people because of discussions ever.
And I wasn't talking about you. I was talking about all the people seemingly triggered by the recent Star Wars movies. I have no opinion on them beyond their general mediocrity. Rey is a boring character. She'd be just as boring if she was a dude. Somehow I doubt most people who hate her would care how bland she is if she was a dude, but honestly the general political polarization everywhere bores me even more.
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If you haven't blacklisted me for some discussion (this one or in the past) I don't know why I would be on your blacklist. I have never violated the site rules.
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I don't remember ever running into you on the board but I am not a mod. I don't BL people because of "site rules violation". Looking at your profile, I can't really tell but I'm guessing it was lack of activity. If it means that much to you, you're off my BL but honestly I don't make AAA GAs so you were not missing much :P
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Thank you.
Honestly I don't care about missing giveaways (though I do prefer indies over AAA), just bothers me when people feel the need to try to lash out and "punish" others for thinking differently than them (which, as you say, you did not do, just speaking generally here).
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No problem. I honestly have no idea how you ended up on my BL in the first place.
And yeah I agree, not just about SG, it's one of the most civil places I have seen online in recent years, but generally speaking. I can't resist a good debate, never could; the exchange of ideas and arguments is something I find fascinating. Unfortunately it's a rare thing these days, about anything, which is a shame.
Thanks for the adult conversation and for expressing your views without acronyms or insults
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They replaced Mary Jane with MJ, going from redhead to black. Not a big change, but I liked the original character and it just sticks out as a change just for the sake of ideology; and, based on the statistics, it appears that African Americans are actually over-represented, while other minorities like asians and latinos are under-represented, at least as far as the US population is concerned.
The black version of Fury is from the comics, it's the ultimate universe version.
I have other issues with StarWars other than race representation, though I do find it funny that the space Nazis would be "inclusive". That said, that thing does fit the cannon, while most things with Rey do not. And the last movie just fucked everything up beyond recognition, I have to agree with Mark Hamill that Rian didn't understand Luke (and so write for him) and overall just made whatever he wanted to subvert expectations whether it made any sense or not. Basically, the newer movies didn't understand what was the outlook/soul of the original movies, they went bleak and took the time to systematically destroy both the original characters and the happy endings they had earned...
Honestly, I just want them to respect the artistic integrity of the material they are adapting, I would love to see more unique stuff, just not pointless changes. There is a lot of material that would allow them to have diverse characters without changing the base material, they just need to adapt more varied sources.
Example Stormlight Archive:
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most people don't read so know nothing about the book.
as for races i think the next book or the one after had people from a desert so arabs or blacks would be canon there.
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You do realize that the books were made into a movie series, still often seen on cable tv at times. You do know that, right?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Chronicles_of_Narnia_(film_series)
I suspect they did not do as well as expected or they may have been made and released closer together, and the rest of the series may have gotten their movies made.
Not sure what Netflix thinks it will do differently, to make it better, other than better CGI, I suppose?
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You do know that, right?
You do realise they weren't even the first screen adaptations. You do know that right?
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there have been a few over the years most where prety bad looking.
as for netflix the movies studios may have the rights to those books they did do for x more years so redoing them is off the table or pay a butt load of money. i will say the books kinda went down hill as it went on. though i feel they should get mel gibson to do the last book do to his work the passion of christ.
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Your Facebook link isn't going where you expect it too.
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I'm still disappointed the Disney/Fox productions were never completed. I read the series when I was younger and loved it, but some of the later books really are much better in my opinion.
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I didn't read the last two books i think, it's been a lot. but in general Narnia is really good. I love Netflix but after some adaptions like Death Note, i am afraid.
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I'd much rather see them do the The Space Trilogy for a change.
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Out of the Silent Planet, Perelandra and That Hideous Strength targeted adult readers just as the Narnia series was for children. Lewis employed the pulp, scifi fantasy tradition to tell a 'weird tale' that actually framed a pretty serious philosophical debate on the nature of good and evil and the impact of science (read technology) as it replaces religious thought in the modern world. Some of it is a bit dated, and some of it is chillingly prophetic. On second thought, Netflix, though they have put out some high quality shows (and many mediocre ones), is probably not the best choice for a project like this - they are better off keeping it simple with the Narnia series. I do recommend the books though, as well as Til We Have Faces - another good read.
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theres a decent bbc radio version of Out of the Silent Planet for anybody that reads your comment and is maybe more an audiobook person.
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I really disliked the Space Trilogy. Out of the Silent Planet was fine, but the next two books became way too preachy. They seemed to abandon all pretense of allegory and devolve into a literal battle between good and evil, God and Satan. Going into them expecting science fiction, I was very disappointed with what they turned out to be.
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Out of the Silent Planet was my favorite of the three, but I was forewarned and so understood that I was in for ideas that would be nothing like the kind of ideas one could expect from science fiction of that era. My take is that the religious allegory is sustained in the second book, but by the third (a very different sort of read than the first two btw), I agree, allegory is completely absent, as intended, because in this case Lewis was attempting to apply the ideas he had developed in strange and fantastical fashion elsewhere in the solar system to the mundane reality of everyday life on earth.
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To me, it seemed that where the Christian themes were relatively subtle in Out of the Silent Planet and his other books, they were obvious and overt in the second book, and he was bashing you in the head with them in the third book. I was not forewarned, just expecting some science fiction, so the content of the second and (especially) third book caught me by surprise. The third book in particular was way too much for my tastes. For me, religion is like sugar - a little bit is fine, a lot is unappealing. :) I didn't pick up on the philosophical aspects that you did, of Lewis attempting to apply fantastical ideas to the reality of everyday life. It's possible that the religious themes, particularly the third book's overt battle between God and the Devil, overshadowed the other themes for me.
Have you read Ursula K Le Guin's sci-fi books? I loved The Left Hand of Darkness, and thought The Dispossessed was really good too.
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Many would agree with you regarding the third book and even some devoted Lewis fans have claimed that it should never have been written. Though it's been a very long time since I read any of them, the first two left an indelible impression, while I have to admit that I barely remember That Hideous Strength. It simply lacked the freshness of a new, stripped down perspective of spirituality and belief, unencumbered by the rigidity and hypocrisy of formal religion, that I discovered in the first two books.
I've read many of Le Guin's books, and never one that I didn't like or even love. What can I say? Very few writers have had the impact on science fiction that she had. Those two novels in particular were hugely influential to the direction that science fiction would take and for me personally. The only other writer from around that time period that made that kind of an impression was Doris Lessing and her Canopus in Argos series.
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I haven't heard of Doris Lessing or her Canopus in Argos series. I'll add them to my reading list, thanks. :)
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Out of the Silent Planet, Perelandra and That Hideous Strength...
Excellent books, although the subtleties within them are often overlooked due to the intensity of some of the imagery.
Personally, I'd rather see some of Robert Aspirin's work translated into film.
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I've never read anything by him, though I know I read some of the Thieves World books years ago.
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I think it's a pretty mediocre series, would have much liked to see something from Brandon Sanderson, or Robert Jordan.
But for anyone who hasn't outgrown it, I hope it ends up being good.
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They did such a good job with Deathnote, how could this possibly go wrong?
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Never can guess the quality of what Netflix produces. So who knows?
No problem, though. I have no connection with Narnia beyond occasionally seeing the film adaptations on TV. And that, ah, lion scene that fucked me up as a kid.
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i used to think this but they have made some good things. look up spectral
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Spectral wasn't made by netflix. That's why it wasn't bad. It was a full budget 70 million dollar Universal studio movie intended for theatrical release until things went bad and netflix just stepped in and said "we'll buy the distribution rights".
"Originally produced by Universal Pictures for a theatrical release, who decided to offload it instead. It was subsequently acquired by Netflix"
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I'm looking forward to reminisce about Narnia but I also understand your worry about Netflix making a bad adaptation. Netflix is pumping out a lot of original works and adaptations so quality is very hit and miss.
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Let's hope it's good. I love Netflix but they scare me sometimes.
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As opposed to what, a Social Injustice Crusader pandering crap fest?
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I'd rather see an adaptation of his other works like Out Of The Silent Planet or Perelandra (might be too trippy). I just want to see Martian otters to be honest.
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netflix fucked up death note for me. they dive into stuff they have no experience with and i am very skeptical about them getting the quality of the original work. they probably will water it down like death note.
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Well. I loved the books, Liked BBC series and almost endured latest movies. How can it go wrong? Right? I hope it will be good though. Yes.
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If it was Netflix from 5 years ago, I'd say yay. Netflix now is mostly interested in generating hype for their shareholders with big announcements... and crap shows
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Cautiously optimistic. Fan of the series, but Netflix originals are hit/miss at the best of times. I really hope it ends up good but I'm not getting my hopes up.
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Not that I care about Narnia, but it's Netflix, not neflix ;)
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Today in a Facebook post on The Chronicles Of Narnia's official page, i saw this post:
I am happy and unhappy in the same time, i really love the books/movies/games of Narnia, I am happy that i will see it's world again after all these years, but afraid that Netflix would ruin the legacy.
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