Hopefully they don't discriminate against indie devs whose taxes show they are very poor, and simply use it as a form of verification that the dev hasn't been banned from the service previously.
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Why would they? A good game will bring money for them as well, it has no connection with their finances. It's more important part that they intent to charge a fee for each new "Greenlight" game, I guess to prevent Digital Homicide-like spam. (or DH-like multiple accounts :D ) - the question is how much the fee will be. It's possible that they'll balance it around the previous 100$ GL ticket-fee.
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- to avoid the same dev under multiple names, like Digital Homicide did with 2-3 accounts. Basically they start to ID you before they would make business with you. It sounds surprisingly reasonable by Valve :)
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Websites like Patreon or using Amazon's e-publishing book service also require some level of basic tax information too, it's to be able to both have accountability on the details if they themselves get audited, and to be able to supply tax information to people who make income they need to claim.
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The tax stuff is also for legal requirements, too; Valve has to be accountable for tax purposes and can't just fork over money into the void without knowing whose products they're technically selling.
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This is long overdue..... but it remains to be seen whether it will make things any better. For some reason I kind of doubt it will close the shovelware floodgates.
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I don't know to what level, but " Once set up, developers will pay a recoupable application fee for each new title they wish to distribute" so at least it does something against one dev dishing out shit games one after eachother. I don't know if it will do anything against many people publishing many bad games one by one
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Of wow. Curious to see as to what exactly is going to change by this aka will the crapflood ever stop??
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It's a good thing I think, form of quality control we desperately need. But I wonder how exactly funds are recoupable, like do they receive a higher % of the game sales up to the amount of the fee before it settles down, or something else?
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Classic valve:
- "We have a problem, what should we do ?"
- "Maybe we could improve our syst..."
- "LET'S ADD A PAYWALL, IT WILL BE YUUUGE"
Well, I'm pretty pissed, I wanted to publish a game too, not with some random assets, I was learning blender and stuff, but... whatever, 90€ was acceptable... 5k clearly not
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Don't be pessimistic and don't be bothered that easily. Just use your time and Blender knowledge to polish the game as much as you can. If it's a good one (good luck!) it's a win win situation. I'm pretty sure Valve's intention is to filter the crap (games and humans), not to make publishing harder to well intended devs. I'm also confident the publishing fee will not be that big.
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It's hard not to feel pessimistic, I literally got cold sweat on my back. 5000$ is my full salary for 10 months of full-time work.
I've always wanted to try developing games and just recently got really into it. I think if it took me 1-2 years to finish the game and it wouldn't sell, I would still feel good about it. But I won't be able to afford fee like that. And some people would scream that such fee is still too low. It feels depressing that there is even a slight chance of this happening. I don't really get people who are that much annoyed by crappy games on Steam, it's not like they force them down your throat to buy.
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There is a bright side to this, though. Greenlight was never the sole way to get a game onto steam, it was just a way for the userbase to vote in products that Valve decided didn't meet their criteria for immediate acceptance. Instead of going through the new Steam Direct process, it might be far easier for genuine indie dev newcomers to start out with GOG or Humble. Once you have a little exposure, Valve is more likely to accept your game/program outright, rather than require you to go through the greenlight/direct process.
The hardest part may be in ensuring you keep records of all non-steam sales so you can issue steam keys should you finally get on the platform. It's rough, but hopefully it won't be too much of a hurdle to newcomers. A speedbump at worst, hopefully.
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I think that\s exactly the reason Valve made this info public earlier, to get feedback. They certainly know that 5000$ is a lot in some countries, even in the US. Really hope they'll find the right balance. The main problem with tons of crappy games is that by filtering you waste a lot of time finding the good ones
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That's the answers various developers gave (along with the 100$) , nothing is set from Valve's point yet. Also there was a 100$ greenlight fee to begin with, so exactly what are you talking about?
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Welp, since I have zero skills and very little patience to learn to code, I'll do the next best thing. And honestly where this is going, is you're giving way more power to the publisher. Depending on how they do the price thing, you're going to fuck over the people who can't afford to put out games. So what are they going to do, they're going to go to a publisher. Honestly it's a real business opportunity if you know what you're doing.
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I'm torn on this myself. I would love to eventually publish a game to steam and agree, that's a lot of money.
I think I'm actually in favor of the higher price...
It means you have to be confident that your game will earn at least that much money.
There also isn't anything to stop you from kickstarting for funding or selling the game independently first to raise money.
On the flip side, that much money also does make it harder to break into the field for an indie dev...
So, as I said, I'm torn. There's definitely benefits to both sides.
I think the best approach would likely be a tiered system in which the price varies based on your financial means... If you are a lone indie programmer keep it fairly low. If you are a small development team (of multiple people), make it higher...
Of course if they do a tiered system, then valve would probably tier how much money they take from you as well... If you pay 100, they probably would take a larger percent of your earning then if you paid 5000....
But now I'm babbling so I'll shut up and submit. ;)
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Kickstarter doesn't accept people from like 2/3 of the globe.
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Definitely a valid point. I believe there are funding platforms which do though I haven't had cause to look into them.
I would also hope valve takes accessibility of these types of services into consideration when determining pricing (since I assume it would vary depending on region, though that might be giving valve too much credit)
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I recall that greenlight was used to get onto the steam catalog when they didn't accept you outright, and while that did include a fee, I'm hoping that using the other online services to build credibility might work. GOG and Humble would seem more amenable to fresh indie releases, though probably have their own quality assurance processes in place. While you won't be able to offer steam keys, getting some exposure through sales (and perhaps circulating a small number of keys to youtubers and the like) might be enough to get you past the greenlight / direct barrier. Being able to offer a steam key with a purchase is a nice draw in sales, but if you keep track of purchases made, you should be able to issue them once you get onto Valve's platform.
Ideally, that is. I'm hoping it's not going to kill too many new genuine devs.
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In 20 years: "Look son, now I'll tell you about how this whole phenomenon was born from a company named Digital Homicide..."
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Well, I was excited at first. After reading the statement, however, I am less enthusiastic. Depending on how high the fee will be, there is still room for abuse since the fee will be recoupable and now they will be able to dump titles directly onto Steam.
edit: I wonder what the model for Free games will be?
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THAT is an excellent question!
"What will they do for free games?"
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FINALLY!!!
We'll be seeing less trashy asset flipped games that way!
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Goodbye Shovelware, goodbye IndieGala's non bundled games, goodbye greenlight bundles we vote so we get keys..
Predictions:
Some bundle websites will go down
way less bundles in the future
way more rebundles
many games
released on greenlight as much as they can until it closes! :)
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don't celebrate too soon, we don't know the final price yet
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Predictions:
Some bundle websites will go down
way less bundles in the future
way more rebundles
many games
More time to play the already owned games, and money to buy beer! Feels like a win for me :D
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Most smaller and mid-size publishers on Twitter are quite excited by that news. Not necessarily a bad move to rely on a fee or external gatekeepers. With the fee being recoupable, I'd still expect hundreds of games per year.
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Guess it was time for a change, just hope everyone well intended and interested posts on the Steam forum so Valve know their opinion.
On other news, now we know Valve is working on 3 full (not demo like The Lab) VR games.
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Interesting change, can't wait to see how it plays out.
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Huh...I appreciate the transparency (might as well be direct and forthcoming than being leaked)
http://store.steampowered.com/app/219820/ Greenlight Submission fee will be removed, then.
Indeed, I feel that the change from one-time fee to per game basis is the logical next step to further "cut down the noise in the system".
Hope we get insights from developers & publishers about this change.
Meanwhile, let's look back at devs' reactions about the one-time fee.
https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2012/09/a-100-lottery-ticket-indies-discuss-steam-greenlights-new-fee/
Too many to quote, so an excerpt about the Greenlight, instead:
It's hard to judge how important the new fee structure will be to Steam Greenlight's eventual success regarding those goals, especially >considering that we haven't yet seen a single game promoted from Greenlight to the Steam marketplace. Still, the controversy surrounding >the move does seem to be a rare off-note for a company that can usually do no wrong in the eyes of most gamers and developers.
"The whole Greenlight thing isn't quite working as Steam would have hoped," Ismail said. "All we know at this point is that Steam seems to >have underestimated the Internet as a thing, and that they tried to fix it with a thing that in my mind doesn't really fix it."
Although this is not my concern, I'm curious:
- How will the application fee be recoupable?
- Application fee and publishing fee is the same fee? Just different label?
- What do they think about it (the fee), compared to console side? (dev kits (PS4, XB1, 3DS/ WiiU/ Switch), patching, etc.)
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Kinda a double edged sword.
I wonder how many greenlight games would have never existed if the entry fee wasn't so cheap.
Now for single developers might be harder to actually get their work on steam.
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In theory maybe but probably not. Plenty of games sell direct/in other marketplaces with a view to going on Steam at some point, there's no reason why this shouldn't continue. Selling your game is all about generating buzz in the right communities, in the end being the 78641st most popular game on Steam doesn't really make this any easier.
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So, a 42-year old university educated dev working alone in Romania / Tunisia / Bosnia / ... should have their game sold in 10 smaller stores and create buzz with time to gather those, let's say, $5000... while 17-year old american kid can work in McDonalds for a month or two over summer and just pay the fee for their game?
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Why not? If a game is quality it will sell regardless of national boundaries, it's not like webshops serve a single market. Steam isn't exactly the bulwark holding back the tide of global equality and frankly if you think most of us have two months wages just to throw at Valve just because I dunno what to tell you. It's a barrier to entry for most people wherever they are, that's kinda the point.
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Mixed feelings about their solution. Let's hope this doesn't prevent legit indie devs from publishing their games on Steam and actually cuts through the mountain of shovelware.
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Quality Control is nice. Valve not being this shitty hands-off corporate entity would be nicer but in the end anything's better than Greenlight.
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http://steamcommunity.com/games/593110/announcements/detail/558846854614253751
" This new path, which we’re calling “Steam Direct,” is targeted for Spring 2017 and will replace Steam Greenlight. We will ask new developers to complete a set of digital paperwork, personal or company verification, and tax documents similar to the process of applying for a bank account. Once set up, developers will pay a recoupable application fee for each new title they wish to distribute, which is intended to decrease the noise in the submission pipeline."
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