So I was watching one of the Campster's most recent video and he presented the topic of politics in video games.

Well, first of all I would like you all to watch his videos, I really like the in-depth analysis he usually makes and his videos are of an upstanding quality in my opinion.

Having said that, I wanted to discuss that topic in here, but let's not limit ourselves to games only as I have some other topics I'd like to present too.

Anyways, first things first. What do you think of videogames and politics? Do you view them as apolitical entities or, on the other hand, you consider that there's a political charge to anything that exists. I'm more inclined to think the latter.

So, the point presented in the video is that videogames, more often than not, present a political nuance in either their mechanics, win states, story, or other components of themselves being it veiled or in a more obvious way.

Examples of that could for example be Spec Ops: The Line or DEFCON (Everybody dies) as one of the more obvious ways but aren't (as the video proposes) other videos endorsing (or not endorsing, just showing) political aspects? For example The Sims could be interpreted as the very portrait of Capitalism or CivV might be supporting the imperialist, 'murican way of doing things through its winstates.

Well, those examples came up in the video and I'm too lazy to think of some of my own. But as, in one way or another, videogames somewhat reflect the society they are being created on (I think that even completely fictional ones do that in one way or the other). What's your views on that?

Moreover, I also consider that everything in this world is basically politics. Isn't politics (and pardon my rusty Greek) something along the lines of from the people or from the city? Doesn't that imply that everything we do is, in one way or the other, political?

Well. My answer to that question is affirmative, and that's why I don't consider the rule of avoid talking about politics being exactly on point. Not to mention that I don't really like censorship in one way or the other (I do know this is a private site and all that). Anyways, I'm starting to wander off the subject.

S, what's your opinion on any of the points I (or, better said, the video) raised?

Also; His youtube channel

Style and grammar corrections are welcomed, by the way.

11 years ago*

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Hmmmmm. This seems to be a failure.

11 years ago
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Well, everything is subjective, and as such, each opinion/statement will have its own perspective from which the idea/whatever was seen. Whether it's from a philosophical view as with Sims, or something a bit more obvious like Civilization/Shogun/etc, there will be always some sort of political/idealistic view portrayed in the developers.

What's the problem with it? No problem at all, it all comes down to what you agree or disagree. Hell, if you had the same artistic view as the guys from Revelations 2012 then you'd probably think the game is perfect (?); if you had the same skewed view as that one guy who was part of one of the biggest threads in this week in the forum, then you'd be defending him. (of course, these are all exaggerations, but hopefully the idea is clear enough)

TL;DR: It's about what suits you. Everything has a part of something, wether it's in a specific ideology, a political view, artistic, or anything really. It's just about what YOU like and feel related to in the end.

11 years ago
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I'll answer you tomorrow. Thanks for your input. :)

11 years ago
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I wouldn't go as far as considering Revelations 2012 perfect under any circumstances :p

And yes. I kind of agree with your point of view, taking a relativist or subjetivist approach to the topic. As Campoamor once said.

En este mundo traidor
nada es verdad ni mentira;
todo es según el color
del cristal con que se mira.

11 years ago
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"Style and grammar corrections are welcomed, by the way."

Giving me permission to be a grammar nazi? This is too good to be true! :D

"videogames"
*video games

"...recent Campster's video"
Assuming Campster is the name of the guy making the video (didn't watch it all yet, sorry), *one of Campster's most recent videos

"analisys"
*analysis

"...you thing of videogames..."
*think

"...or, on the other hand you..."
*...or, on the other hand, you...

"...that exist."
*exists

"...story or other..."
*...story, or other...

"...ways but, aren't..."
*...but aren't...

"imperialist,'murican"
*imperialist, 'murican

"...I'm to lazy to..."
*...I'm too lazy to...

"But as, in one way or another videogames..."
*But as, in one way or another, videogames

"But as, in one way or another, videogames somewhat reflect the society they are being created on (I think that even completely fictional ones do that in one way or the other) What's your views on that?"
Unfinished sentence.

"...my rusty greek"
*Greek

"...in the lines of..."
*...along the lines of

"...I don't consider the rule of avoid talking about politics isn't exactly on point..."
Double negative, I think you meant I consider the rule of avoid talking about politics* as not being exactly true.

"...that) Anyways, I'm..."
*...that). Anyways, I'm...

"So. What's..."
*So, what's

What's your opinion in any of the points..."
*on any of the points

"Also//His youtube channel"
*Also; his Youtube channel

I couldn't help but cover spelling (presumably typos), and punctuation too.

please don't hate me
11 years ago
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Again, sorry for nitpicking, just when you said they're welcomed I couldn't pass such an opportunity up...

As for the video, I'll post my thoughts once I've watched the full thing :).

11 years ago
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Hehehehe, you evil bastard. :p

Thanks I'll correct them tomorrow. Heading to bed atm.

Also I hope you like the video and the channel.

11 years ago
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After watching the rest of the video, I've decided I would like to mull over my opinions, and present them tomorrow.

Bookmarked :)

11 years ago
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A couple of things :p

Is the Oxford comma (It's called like that, right?) necessary in here? I never really understood when and when not to use it

"...story or other..."
*...story, or other...

And what's the rule for using punctuation after parentheses?

Also, the unfinished sentence was finished ;_;

Thanks :)

11 years ago
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Yes, it is an Oxford comma. You use it here because you are presenting a list.
A couple of examples:
He is smart and intelligent. No comma, as this is only two items.
He is smart, intelligent, and educated. Here we put a comma, because intelligent and educated are two separate things, whereas if you leave them without a comma between them, they could be seen as one item.
There is less cause for confusion when you're using "or", rather than "and", but the principle is the same. It helps to say it out loud, as the commas denote a pause.
their mechanics (pause) win states (pause) story (pause) or other components sounds better than their mechanics (pause) win states (pause) story or other components

That's my attempt to explain the use of an Oxford comma, sorry if I didn't manage to get it fully across, I'll try again if I didn't. :)

The rule I've learnt for punctuation around parentheses is to simply pretend the parentheses (and their contents) aren't there, and punctuate accordingly. In your case:
Not to mention that I don't really like censorship in one way or the other (I do know this is a private site and all that). Anyways, I'm starting to wander off the subject.
If you remove the parentheses and their contents you get:
Not to mention that I don't really like censorship in one way or the other. Anyways, I'm starting to wander off the subject.
As you can probably see, the full stop is required for the sentence to make sense.

But as, in one way or another, videogames somewhat reflect the society they are being created on (I think that even completely fictional ones do that in one way or the other).
I'll leave out the parentheses with their contents just to make it a bit shorter.
But as, in one way or another, videogames somewhat reflect the society they are being created on.
You say "as" blah blah blah, but then you fail to make a related point. There should be a comma after "on", and then the point you wish to make on the subject. If it makes easier, replace "as" with "since", as I believe they are synonymous, in this context at least.

11 years ago
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Have not seen the video, but based on your examples, politics are very much interveined with video games, because they are part of life, and any game that shows a way of life is presenting some kind of politics.

  • Call of Duty, Battlefield, Homefront, Medal of Honor - American patriotism / imperialism, depends on which country you live in
  • Mirrors Edge - Anarchism VS Totalitarianism and strict regulations
  • Up the video game - promoting social policy (taking care of elderly, loving animals...)

You can't distinct politics from life, so you can't distinct them from video games. What you can is to educate yourself enough to notice and understand what authors are trying to say openly or under the veil of entertainment... and decide for yourself what is important, what is true and ethically correct.

An example would be, to realize killing people is not good, even if call of duty sets you to think there are situations where not only is, but is preferable to capturing enemy in war.

11 years ago
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Exactly. I would say that every form of expression is political in one way or the other. I completely agree with your statement that you have to educate yourself in order to discern what's going on and not being "manipulated" by the general media and the way of doing so is forming an educated contrasted opinion.

I don't want to say nor imply that some political currents are inherently better than others, as from different standpoints and sets of values what could seem acceptable in an enviroment won't be considered as such in another.

My final point is that politics is present in every single aspect of our lives and repudiating it is not only naive, but stupid.

11 years ago
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this

11 years ago
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Subscribed because interested.

Have my own take on this, but have not played enough/do not have enough time to have explored it in depth.

11 years ago
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I think that the guy creates good quality content in a format that's both not too short and not too long. I would suggest you watch some of his other videos.

Also your opinion is welcomed if you decide to share it.

11 years ago
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Oh, I meant the gaming part of it. I play, but so infrequently that I'm not necessarily well-versed in political content in games.

I'm still thinking about places where it has cropped up. Playing Batman AA right now, and there is definitely some underlying political/ideological skeletons to how AA is run and how prisoners are handled.

11 years ago
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Wow I was expecting some really awful comments. Looking forward to how long you guys can keep this up if someone brings up, say, the transphobia in GTA5

11 years ago
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It's not a political issue. Unless someone trying rise to power will make it one.

11 years ago
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Even if my topics can be regarded as inflamatory I usually try my best to keep everything civil and discuss in a polite and understanding manner, it's true that sometimes things get out of hand in spite of myself.

I haven't played GTAV more than some isolated missions on my flatmate's rig, so I can really comment on that topic, sorry.

11 years ago
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For example The Sims could be interpreted as the very portrait of Capitalism or CivV might be supporting the imperialist,'murican way of doing things through its winstates.

The Sims clearly represents consumerism, which is not a political statement, or capitalism per se. And Civilization depicts pretty much any civilization from Ice Age to Modern Age. They all rose to power, consumed as much territory as they could and the collapsed upon themselves.

As for games being political. They are made by people and often represent their views. For instance something like America's Army is clearly a political game. Pretty much any western game about World War II is a political in a way that they misrepresent the events in favour of USA.

Luckily there are many games that have no politics (unless you look too deep), and I like it that way.

11 years ago
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Consumerism, from my point of view, is one of the basic pillars of capitalism. Capitalism would collapse if we incurred in an extreme case of overproduction (That was one of the points Marx developed on Das Kapital if I'm not mistaken, that Capitalism tends to go towards overproduction) so there's the need of keeping people buying things, that's when consumerism is promoted and endorsed. That's what publicity is for, to create needs to keep people consuming, to prevent another system critical state. IMO.

About Civ. The video pretty much stated what I'm going to say (I was too lazy to come up with my own examples) it endorses objectives that are all based on domination one way or the other, on imposing your culture/army/economic power over the rest of the world. As Campster said other winstates that could be presented aren't there.

And games with an overly simplistic plot might not seem to have politics on them on first sight, but I'm sure we could be able to find them somewhere :p

Anyways. May I ask why do you prefer to keep politics out of your videogames? What's your view on politics?

11 years ago
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Keep in mind that capitalism isn't a political system, but an economic model that can be successful over many different political systems.

That's something that many pundits and politicians here in the States fail to recognize when they think the government should "be run like a business". :)

11 years ago
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It is the most successful model in spite of political systems. Systems (such as Socialism/Communism) who think the people can be managed and discarded when they are obsolete, like some business resource.

11 years ago
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My point was that it is a separate economic model (which is exactly what I said).

Now, it definitely inserts itself into political models, but it isn't one in and of itself.

And anyone or any system in place will abuse people. Abuse in the name of Communism has been some of the worst in history.

That being said, it's apt that you mention people being discarded as business resources as a criticism of those systems and in defense(?) of capitalism, which does exactly the same if left unchecked by an advocate of the electorate (or the polit, anyway).

I don't advocate any system or another, but I do advocate as true a representative government of the people as possible. No system is perfect, and all are/will be abused without checks.

11 years ago
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I prefer games without politics, unless it's a game based on real world events. In that case I like an acurate depiction of that particular time, i.e. characters holding different world views and their personalities are not fully based on them.

As for my personal political preferences I'd say I'm a liberal.

11 years ago
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Capitalism 2 is a capitalist game :-)

11 years ago
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And an easy and kind of boring one at that.

11 years ago
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Since you asked for style an grammar corrections, this will be useful for you: https://www.slickwrite.com/. There are Chrome and Firefox extensions. (side note: he misspelled imperialism in the video)

I watched most of the video, but realized that even though I think I agree with his overarching point, I disagree with the way he is going about this. He is antagonistic and argumentative with poorer logical reasoning than I would like. The example that made me stop watching is when he talked about Civ V being "American." I'm not an expert on this, but there are a few of these in there: https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/, including personal incredulity.
I also think that he completely fails to address the fact that games are made for specific audiences. Asking one game to appeal completely to all cultures and politics is like asking a book or movie to do so: very difficult. (also I did go back and re-watch the entire thing)

11 years ago
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wow, a lot of it its actually incredibly true, in fact now that i think about it, most games no matter how silly they are, still bring a political view either they want it or not.

like the greedyness of big corporations in norderlands 2, that will come as far as to harm people living in area to get what they want (hyperion, atlas) and become two faced about their promises (marcus selling guns to bandits)

so its not much bringing politics into a game, but more like stating a political view that is shown and criticized in the game

of course games that in no way try to bring a political view like lets say terraria or minecraft, should be looked that way, like saying "OMG TERRARIA REPRESENTS CAPITALIST BECAUSE THE EYE OF CTHULHU HAS THE SAME EYE COLOR AS THIS GUY SHO SERVES COFFEE AT THE WHITE HOUSE, AND CAPITALIST IS TRYING TO KILL US"

11 years ago
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A lot of games bring some political views indeed. What do you think of the GTA series, which pretty much make fun of a lot of capitalism (and a shitload more).

11 years ago
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Resident Evil 4 has a ton of it and revels in the cheese.

11 years ago
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Good thing people are arguing the main point and not just pointing out grammar mistakes and tone arguments oh wait.

11 years ago
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Good thing everyone read the OP. Oh wait...

;)

11 years ago
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Given that the overwhelming majority of games are developed and distributed under a broadly democratic capitalist model, it shouldn't come as a jaw-dropping revelation that that the politics and viewpoints of said games tend to tacitly (or even actively, in many cases) promote the ideology...?

While new worlds are imagined in almost every new computer game, despite many apparent differences, they are usually anchored to the real world/real world experiences of the gamers by familiar touchstones. Since our political systems and ideologies permeate almost every part of our lives and experiences to one degree or another, even if it is not the explicit intention of a game designer to endow their game with a political aspect, he or she is likely to end up doing so inadvertently, simply through an attempt to inject the world with enough believability and familiarity to draw the gamer in.

In the year 2013, there are far more similarities than differences between the dominant ideologies of the countries comprising the computer gaming/game producing "first world". Although there are games which deliberately set out to challenge aspects of these, they ultimately still contain vivid and unmissable reflections of the mechanics and structures of the political ecosystem under which they were born, grew, and were released into the grateful arms of the gaming masses.

11 years ago
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Your post makes me realize that most future-conceived worlds in gaming involve a system that is not our own, and (usually) that's supposed to strike fear into our hearts.

I mean, granted, it also involves mutants, too, but still. :)

Good post.

11 years ago
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Closed 11 years ago by MrCastiglia.