Oooh, it's not in the FAQ, it was in the Support section. Sorry, I just realized. Ok, let's report him then. Thanks
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http://www.steamgifts.com/about/guidelines
Winning
Won gifts should be activated to the Steam account used during registration, and they should not be regifted, traded, or sold.
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I'd say it should be "must be" but yes, same idea. Though, in the end that's mostly semantics. I think it's clear unless the person is deliberately using the wording as a shield.
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Pretty clear in the FAQ
Can I enter a giveaway for a friend?
You should only enter to win giveaways for yourself, and if you win a game, it must be activated and redeemed to the Steam account used during registration. If a friend is interesting in joining giveaways, they'll need to register for their own account.
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Hey!!!! Did we ever tell you how great a support you are and how awesome you are with the rerolls :P
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Problem is you guys evidently don't view regifting itself as an issue, only not activating a game. It's like saying someone that committed manslaughter (cause the unintentional death of another) was the same as someone that went on a premeditated mass killing spree. People report regifting, but they only get punished for not activating a gift, which means they only get suspended, no matter how many times they do it, and they get to keep the CV. Regifting is made possible by not activating a gift, but it's decidedly worse.
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Regifted games get deleted if marked as Received. The problem is that only moderators can delete them, and due to site limitations, they can only delete a limited number every day. Sleepy and Ronix just got promoted, so it should be a bit better now.
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which means that a regifter has no mark against their name... what they should get is a non-delivered, so that people can see they're dodgy... With the current way of doing things, theres no real threat.. if they get caught, they get a slap on the wrist for a week, and then no further stigma or way for people to know the person is a site abuser. This is why people keep doing it, support seems FAR more keen and aggressive on going after people who call out these regifters or scammers than they do punishing people who actually ruin this site and community.
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The winners can't be forced to mark it Not Received, because they did receive the game. Regifters get a 5-day suspension the first regift, and typically we don't see any recidivism. After the first suspension 99%+ of people won't reoffend. Multiple recidivist infractions does result in permanent suspension.
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I have a hard time taking that seriously when I can look at some the the worst, and frequent regifters I know of, see they're suspensions have ended, can use the site again, people have marked said giveaways as received over a month ago, and they still have their CV from regifting.
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You're free to believe what you want to believe. I'm just stating the facts.
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It'd help if regifting was directly mentioned as not allowed in the guidelines, and report options, as its own entry, or part of existing ones, like adding it to the free game giveaway option. So long as there's no reference to it, and we can't really see anything being done about it, or that it's even regarded as an issue in of itself, I doubt I'd be alone in that sentiment.
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There's no need to explicitly forbid regifting in the guidelines. You must activate all wins. If you are regifting, you are not activating all wins. Seems pretty clear to me.
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By that logic listing that one can not sell, or trade a won game would be unnecessary as it was stated that you must activate your winnings, yet those two things were specifically stated. Assuming that people will understand you can't do one thing, if you tell them you can't do another is never a good idea. Also what listing regifting specifically in the guidelines does is shows users that the admins do in fact view it as a problem, whereas when it's not, it comes off as being viewed as a non-issue. Some admin seemed to think showing that was a good idea, as I believe just recently in the winning section of the guidelines the first line was changed to add that one should not regift their won giveaways.
Then adding the same sort of thing to the line about not making giveaways for free games, beta keys, etc in the creation section of the guidelines, and when making a user report would further improve things, plus provide an option to specifically report regifting. Regifting, and not activating a won giveaway are not the same thing, so really we shouldn't have to report regifting, as not activating a won giveaway, it just makes sense.
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By that logic listing that one can not sell, or trade a won game would be unnecessary as it was stated that you must activate your winnings
Yup, you are correct. I don't think we need to explicitly state those caes either. You must activate all wins covers all cases already, there's no need to specifically mention each case. This is exactly why laws get bogged down in so much legalese.
I don't remember exactly when regifting was added to the guidelines, (minimum almost 4 months ago, which I wouldn't consider "just recently"), but do you think it's helped reduce the number of regifters? Based on the number I've seen, no.
Regifting, and not activating a won giveaway are not the same thing, so really we shouldn't have to report regifting
I don't agree, but I won't expand on this. Need to head to work - I didn't get any tickets answered this morning since I was typing up this post! No wonder the backlog keeps getting bigger :P
The reason we don't have a report category for regifting is that we no longer have the ability to suspend for regifting. Apparently on SGv1, support could issue double suspension, one for regift, one for non activation. When SGv2 was launched, though, it looks like the admin stopped allowing us to suspend for regifts.
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Stating it provides added clarity, and helps enforce the idea that it's important. Rules/Guidelines only help to inform those that are wiling to follow them in the first place. Like most community sites, the basic way to sum them all up is to say "don't be a dick," so as long as you don't do dickish things, you can follow the rules, without actually having read them. For the people that don't care about the rules, the penalties needs to be sufficient to make them figure it's not something they want to do, here the penalties for regifting are a joke, so there's little wonder that it happens as often as it does. Your statement regarding how support can't penalize regifters twice only helps show that regifting isn't regarded any differently than not activating a game, and isn't viewed as a problem in of itself.
No, regifting, and not activating a game on your Steam profile aren't the same thing. The idea of the site is you spend money in some way to get games, and provide them to others in giveaways, that then lets you convert the cost of the game into CV, so you can get in higher level giveaways where your odds of winning would be better. If you don't activate a game, that's generally speaking not something the giveaway maker would have anything to do with, and in of itself wouldn't provide any direct benefit in how the site works to the winner. With regifting you take a game you won, so didn't spend money on, then convert it into CV by making a giveaway with it, so there is a real benefit to that person in the context of the site.
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not saying the winners should mark it not received, im saying the moderation team should mark it as such, because as it stands people pretty much get off scot-free, with no one the wiser about people who attempt to rip gifters off. a not-recieved gives other users the choice of black listing or disallowing entry into private groups, but since any hint of offending is completely hidden by the moderation team, bad users essentially have a clean slate and others are denied any chance to see the type of person they are dealing with.
NOT only that, but realise that sg also has a trading function... how is it NOT a good idea to let potential traders know that they are dishonest or behave in ways not accordance with either rules or common decency?
and IF for some bizarre reason you dont agree with linking a 'not delivered' marking with regifting, then at LEAST have a permanent mark or badge on a users account if they are found guilty of it.
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We literally can't force mark games Not Received. I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding about how much power support and moderators actually have on this site. And even if we were able to mark Not Received, we would have people complaining that they don't want Not Received wins in their profiles. We already have people complaining about why their wins are getting removed, and we have some people who explicitly request to have the Not Received games deleted.
any hint of offending is completely hidden by the moderation team, bad users essentially have a clean slate
That's not true. If a game is regifted, the winner didn't activate it. It's pretty easy to use that tool to check for non activations.
Also, just because someone has a Not Received in their profile, doesn't mean that the game is a regift. I've had plenty of Not Received marks in the past, due to key screwups when you're making hundreds of giveaways at the same time. You think they were regifts?
at LEAST have a permanent mark or badge on a users account if they are found guilty of it.
I believe you and I have a fundamental difference in opinion here. So someone makes one mistake and never reoffends, you think making their sg lives miserable for the rest of their time here is the best course of action.
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part 1 and 2 aren't perfect scenarios... im talking about having the ability for a user to easily see from a persons profile as to their conduct. One shouldnt have to scan their wins, gifts and go through a steam account to see if they've been doing something dodgy... and no, no one assumes a 'not received' mark is a regift, but if regifts WERE marked as such, it would still give users an easy way to quickly glance at someones account and see whether or not they want to allow them access to a group, or whitelist them or reroll a win or whatever. It gives at least a TINY piece of insight towards the persons character, rather than these things just being expunged by the moderation staff as if they never happened.
as for your last point... my interest really is not with the person who broke the rules... i genuinely dont care about their experience - they place their own wants and needs over the rules set out for the community, so no.. really not interested in that, and quite frankly it boggles my mind why you place far FAR more interest in how THEY feel and THEIR experience, than you do on the experiences of the RULE FOLLOWING members of the site.. what about their right to know who they are dealing with? When it comes to allowing people into groups, group leaders/members often have rules about who they allow access to, and YOU essentially cover that up, and make it easy for regifters/retraders to get into groups they otherwise shouldn't
you also wont let people call out dodgy users - which would be fine IF people have the ability to find out THEMSELVES whether or not users are rule breakers and exploiters of the system - but since you already cover up any and all offending, you deny people here the right to make those calls for themselves..
you are right on one thing though... we do have a fundamental difference of opinion.. I think the rights and the experiences of decent, honest members of this site (and steamtrades) are far more important than the 'enjoyment' of site exploiters and the ability (courtesy of moderating staff) to keep their activities hidden.
There is already far too much regifting, fake giveaways, and trade scamming spread over these sites... the moderation team (depending on who you believe) is either way way way out of their depths and completely swamped, or generally disinterested (not saying which i believe, just saying there are two equally likely different opinions, and no i dont want to argue that point with you) - the ONLY ones users on these sites can truly depend on, are ourselves and our abilities to make judgement calls... having mods cover up any and all offending on this site, ultimately hurts the legitimate users the most of all.
anyway, i think we can both agree that we'll never see eye to eye on each others points, so feel free to respond if you wish, but I think its best (certainly for my part since) if i just drop this...
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I think non-forum goers don't really care if someone has a "not received" on their profile. They're still going to enter the giveaway.
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Amen on the whole 'calling out" part, seems like that is what is the number one priority around here... Heaven forbid you point out an abuser publicly.
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I have an idea, but it's hard to explain it, so i'll give example:
S(ource) - 1st giveaway creator
R(egifter) - wins giveaway from S, and regifts it
W(inner) - wins giveaway from R.
How about, instead of just removing the giveaway from R, you change the winner of S's giveaway to appear as W instead of R. So it ends up as W won giveaway from S, i mean it's just editing the winners name after games are exchanged.
After typing this, I realised S keeps his CV no matter if game was regifted, so this idea is worthless. xD
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I just want to say thank you for taking the time to check on your winners!
If everyone did this it'd help catch regifters much quicker :)
In case you didn't though, make sure they did not activate it and get another copy for a giveaway (not super likely but there are some that do that).
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That's a good suggestion. I have checked and no, he hasn't reddemed it. It would have been a hell of a coincidence, considering it's been 5 minutes between the moment he marked it as received and the moment he created his own GA
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Do you guys suggest a comment on his GA or just the report?
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In the end reporting him is fine, however if you think he truly does not know the rules you could inform him of them and then go from there.
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Just the report. Commenting might be considered calling out and it's not allowed. Or you could add him and talk directly with him.
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But on the other hand, he seems to be a new user, who is just ignorant of the rule. THe GA has not concluded so maybe he could just cancel it and avoid the report.
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Maybe but looking at his won and given this is the second time he's done it. Also don't see another 2 won games activated in account but he didn't create GAs for those. Probably traded them off...he's a repeat offender and had 9 months to read the FAQ.
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I agree with coezo about commenting, just because you might get in trouble for it :/
Edit: As someone below posted, seems like it's dealt with
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Yes. Thanks. I deleted my comment. There are others about it anyway, and seems at least 1 other user reported him.
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Well, if he is suspended now the reports might as well be closed, at least I think they should be. Also, no problem :)
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I see it's solved now, but just so you know, not knowing about the rules is no excuse, though. Anyway, like I said, if you want to alert a person, talk to her directly. Avoid commenting as it might be considered calling out.
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Shuuuuun the regifter! I sometimes win games from bundles I've purchased but not activated yet. I end up activating the copy I won and then give away my own copy, haha.
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Hehe, so you're one of those people I was mentioning!
I don't think there is a problem with doing that, though I do think it could confuse the giveaway creator into thinking you are re-gifting. I think it's wise to let them know, not that it changes much on your end but it could stop an unnecessary support ticket :)
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It's usually not an issue since the GA creator can see that I have the game in my games list. I typically wait a few days before giving my copy away, too.
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Oh, I know it's not usually an issues, I just mean some GA creators don't pay attention and just report immediately (though that's usually if it was shortly after as in the OPs situation, not that he didn't check first).
Waiting a few days works just as well I would say :)
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I trust that the support staff would take take the proper measures XD.
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I know, I just meant it's unnecessary work for the support, especially with the amount of false tickets they already get (on top of the actual ones).
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Check steam profile.
If game in library after won then no poblem.
If no game in library, please report that little rat!
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He didn't redeem. He only owns 29 games so I'm assuming he's new. I have warned him on the comments of his GA, before reporting.
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Well, he is 9 months old in SG, but is your choice. i hope he cancels it, and check steam companion just in case.
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heh if this was a game with a key and I saw them doing that i'd drop the key in the forum and let someone grab it. This would thus mean he doesn't get the game and he can't regift it. However I don't know if this is ok to do so don't just up and follow my suggestion :P
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i'm guessing jatan took care of it seeing as how he is suspended now it it doesn't look like his first time
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I see. Well, thanks guys for all the info and suggestions.
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3 unactivated gifts, i wonder where did the other 2 games went...
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Man, he's won 4 in a month. In the last year I've won 2 and they were 15.000 and 100.000 copies each. LOL Some people are just lucky.
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Roses will eventually wilt but a place on my blacklist lasts forever.
At least I got a good laugh out of it. ^^ That person asked for several CS GO keys for a -50% I am Bread coupon.
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The funniest part of it all is his avatar probably looks just like him now. I RoFLed
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Its not the fact that regifting is not specifically forbidden (it is, as its mentioned that you have to activate every win on your account that you win it with), its the fact that many just do not read the FAQ and guidelines at all.
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The problem in this kinds of situations (in general, not necessarily your case) is that, unless he didn't activate the game, you can't prove that he just bought a copy to give away after he won your GA, or that he had a copy in his inventory from before.
In general, regifting can't be proved deterministically, only non-activation can.
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There's a user that just won a GA that I had created and immediately created a GA of his own with the game he got from me.
I thought this wasn't allowed... but for the life of me I can't find a clear reference to it in the FAQ and it's not among the reasons I can select to report a user (so I haven't reported him yet).
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