It doesn't make sense. When a person buys a 50bucks game to give away, why is their contribution lower a year later when the game gets cheaper?

1 decade ago*

Comment has been collapsed.

It is???

1 decade ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

yes

1 decade ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

yes.

1 decade ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

you mean iron sky: invasion ? that was bought through a 90% coupon and should actually be on the bundle list anyway...

1 decade ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

No, i mean every game.

1 decade ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

Aside from bundles, games and contributor values on SG are meant to reflect current Steam prices. It's understandable people get upset if they spend $20 on a giveaway, and the price lowers to $10 shortly after. The obvious solution is to save the price of the game at the time of the giveaway. It's simple enough, but there are a few main reasons why this hasn't been done. Let's take a look.

  1. Issues with consistency. Points are tied to the value of games. If prices differ per giveaway, you might see multiple Hitman Absolution giveaways, some for 50P, others for 25P. This means, every time you enter a giveaway, you'll need to check across the site to see if others are available at a lower number of points. Also, if you've entered into a Hitman Absolution giveaway for 50P, and the price drops, well, now you might want to revisit the site, remove your entry, and enter two giveaways for 25P instead.

  2. Steam doesn't provide the most reliable pricing data. Prices bounce all over the place, and it's not unusual to see inaccurate data at times. For example, let's say a game is listed as $9.99. For one reason or another, Steam decides to start displaying the price of a bundle that contains the game, rather than the individual game. The price jumps to $19.99. A week later, Steam returns to the individual price, and it's lowered to $4.99. This means we have users receiving values of $9.99, $19.99, and $4.99 for the same game. The $19.99 is incorrect, so we'd have to catch that error, and readjust the values for all those giveaways. However, we don't know what hour or day the price changed from $9.99 to $4.99, so we wouldn't know which value to assign. Imagine this, multiplied by 2,000 games, and 400,000 giveaways. Also, prices need to be accurate to the minute, otherwise we'll be hearing about it in support. For example, we'll have users catching price drops, posting giveaways within minutes before our data updates, and receiving a higher value. At the moment, it's nice when we can fix a pricing error, and know it's corrected site wide. It's not perfect, but it's consistent for everyone. With individual values, I can't say with confidence our pricing data would be at the level of accuracy we need, and I think we'd have more headaches than what we have now.

Source.

1 decade ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

What happen with game price if some game will be removed from steam?

1 decade ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

Good question. Probably left at last listed price.

1 decade ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

The price remains the way it was the moment it was removed from the store, for example regular edition of Deus Ex: Human Revolution.

1 decade ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

I think the last price recorded is the one used, since a game removed from the store needs to be re-added to the list anyway.

1 decade ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

What about "freezing" price of game given by user when the giveaway ends?
I mean, when giveaway ends, system looks for current price of game.

1 decade ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

Because, as she explained in bullet point #2, getting the current price is unreliable. Steam doesn't always report the right price and the wrong one would be saved alongside the giveaway. This would require admins/mods to go back and manually fix thousands of giveaways.

1 decade ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

What about taking prices from steam only twice or once per day?

1 decade ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

This isn't about the number of times the price is queried from Steam, but about the fact that Steam sometimes gives the wrong one. It would still cause errors on the days the wrong price is reported by Steam.

As an example, currently some days the price of Bioshock Infinite is reported as $39.99 while other days it's reported as $79.99. (Price of the Triple Pack) If a giveaway is made on the day that Steam reported the price as being $79.99, then that's what would be saved along with the giveaway. The mods/admins would have to go back and fix this error. Now multiply this by over 2000 different games and 400000 giveaways and you can begin to imagine how much work it would be.

1 decade ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

The last reported price is kept in the database.

As explained on bullet point #2, the price recorded at the end of the giveaway might be the wrong one. This would mean admins would have to manually fix thousands of giveaways to reflect the correct price.

1 decade ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

tl;dr - CV is calculated this way for simplicity, price drops are an unfortunate side-effect.

1 decade ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

So why not save the CV according to the exact date when the giveaway was created on this site? That wouldn't need any data from steam.

1 decade ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

Because of bullet point #2. You DID read it, right?

1 decade ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

Yeah, because of steam displaying some price or another which definitely affects Earth's timezones which in turn affect the date when the giveaway was made here on this site, not the steam site, and so it can't be saved one day to avoid weird price drop a year later.

1 decade ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

The price data is taken from Steam. How is saving the CV according to the exact date when the giveaway was created will help fix getting the wrong price from Steam on that day?

As an example, right now Bioshock Infinite sometimes cost 40 points to enter and sometimes cost 80 points. That's because Steam insists on reporting the price of the Triple Pack every now and then when queried for the price of Infinite. If the $80 price point is saved along with the giveaway, it will be saved with the wrong price and mods/admins would have to fix the value saved along with the giveaway for thousands of giveaways. That's what's been explained in point #2.

1 decade ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

It obviously doesn't happen every five minutes and to every game. So if steamgifts.com saves record of a giveaway being made on a certain date and hour, it might also save the record of what was the price of the game at that certain date and hour, because the glitch just doesn't happen all the time. I understand it glitches sometimes but not every five minutes and it doesn't glitch with every other game. And if the prices are taken directly off steam, it would affect only a few of the giveaways because it would revert to the right price again and there certainly aren't thousands of giveaways of the big games like Bioshock infinite that might be known to be glitchy when it comes to its steam price.

1 decade ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

+1
But with one correction - CV should be recorded at the end of giveaway, not start. So that no one can wait and post GAs during named glitches to boost their CV.

1 decade ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

With over 2000 games on Steam, who will be in charge of watching every one of them for price errors? Bioshock was just one example that's been happening over the last week, for days at a time. Are you personally willing to set a few hours aside each and every day to check for pricing errors just because a few users are insecure about their e-peen?

1 decade ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

With over 2000 games on Steam, who will be in charge of watching very occasional glitches with just a few of them?

1 decade ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

Sounds like you didn't read it. Try again?

1 decade ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

As I see it CV is a relative value (despite being represented by a descrete one) and its main point is to reward the most those who are active the most AND that stay active in the long run.
Also because it's very easy to link Steam prices with value in an automated way, I suppose. :D

1 decade ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

I agree and it makes sense. I haven't done a giveaway in a while if my CV went down because of price drops I would understand. It is a good incentive to stay active in not just entering giveaways but also giving away when you can.

1 decade ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

"(...) are active the most AND that stay active(...)"
Bogus reasoning. There is nothing rewarding in loosing value no matter active one is.

1 decade ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

Except that it's rewarding to everyone else who uses the site, as it encourages more giveaways. Whether you like it or not, it does increase the amount of giveaways (especially non-bundled)

1 decade ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

wat
How do you know ? A poll ?

1 decade ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

The introduction about CV being RELATIVE was not facultative. :D

2 people: you and me.
I give away 2 copies of OldGame while you give away a single copy of it. I get 20CV, you get 10CV.
After 1 month you give away a copy of NewGame, while I don't give anything away. You get another 10CV.
We are now at the same 20CV.

After 1 week OldGame gets a -50% price change and as a result of this I find myself at 10CV, while you still have 15CV.

In total I was "rewarded" 10CV for my giveaways, while you got rewarded 15CV for yours. You got an extra reward because you stayed "active" with your GAs, while I didn't.

I did NOT get punish and I was NOT stolen CV, YOU were rewarded more because YOU stayed active.

CV is relative throughout the comunity. Without the cap for bundles and price-drops everybody would easily have -let's say- 1000CV. Do you think that 30.01-CV GAs would still be there? Of course not, they would be 1000.01-CV GAs instead.
A newcomer would be discouraged by those numbers and there would be 10x the amount of bundle games being given away (just to try and catch up with the average CV).

Overall I like the system as it is. It's not perfect, but the alternatives I can think of (including no CV system at all) are FAR worse.
It encourages people into diversifying their giveaways and staying active.
"Encourages", not "forces". The site doesn't require a minimum of GAs. It's free games. For free.
*= randomness applies.

Also the site is not charity: they need people to click on ADs to stay alive (and even make an extra, why not). They have very little AD ad it's all related to games and sales. Who clicks on games and sales? People who are active in gaming and/or game-buying.

At least this is how I see the site.

TL;DR OMG, wall of text. :rfacepalm:

1 decade ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

yeah, it's a full absurd

1 decade ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

Aww c'mon Valko, you know just as well as I do that it cuts down on "value campers" whose last active giveaway ended 10 months ago :P

1 decade ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

A better question: Why does anyone give a flip about CV? Its a flawed and heavily abused system.

1 decade ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

I don't think there's that many that care about CV, it's just that not having a CV system is far more abusable.
For sure it would create more unhappy people, since the poll revealed that 2/3 of the users prefere having the system.

1 decade ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

Actually, it makes perfect sense.

CV is not a running total of how much you have spent. If it were, it would reflect the fact that you recently bought that one game on sale at 75% off, or received this other game in a bundle for $0.25. Instead, CV is an estimate of the value of those gifts you have contributed to SteamGifts. As the value of the games you have given decreases, so does the estimated value of your contribution (CV). This is called "depreciation" and is part of "free market" economics.

1 decade ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

^

1 decade ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

No, it's a running total of the price of the games you have given away which was something or another at the day the giveaway was made so noone cares about "free market economics".

1 decade ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

Closed 1 decade ago by gigapudding.