Do you demand 60+fps in action games like this?
The game doesn't have config file somewhere in game directory or my document?
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it almost always is, actually. objectively better. and 30fps may be playable in some games, but it most certainly is not perfectly playable. i didn't know that this game runs at 30, and i didn't have a fps counter on. the options menu also didn't reveal it. but when i started the tutorial it took me 5 seconds to realize it. the game feels bad. sluggish and stuttery. it controls objectively worse than other platinum titles because of the frame rate. if that's not a big deal to you, that's great for you, honestly. but for me it just is. the game is actually less fun when running at a low frame rate for me.
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funny. of course the game runs at absolutely solid 30fps. but every game seems stuttery to me at 30fps. when you're used to playing at 60 for years, that's just how it is. it's not like i'm the only one who feels that way.
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The ONLY game i've played where the game performs worse at 60 fps is la noire,and that's because the animations are animated at 30 fps.
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Sadly, I always playing around 17 FPS :"< Low-end PC crying :"<
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30 is playable, but in a fast paced action game like this, it's far from ideal. I personally don't care if Heroes of Might and Magic is 30 or 60 FPS, or heck even 15 FPS. A low framerate won't negatively impact a game like that, as long as there's no issues related to input performance. For a game like this though, 30 is kinda bad.
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I demand 60FPS in every game. On the other hand, I don't demand more than that.
I can deal with 40-45 in extreme cases but anything below that feels extremely tedious.
I don't consider 30FPS playable at all and I don't understand people who do. The input reactions are so slow it's like playing with constant lag (think 100+ ping). Then again, people that play at 100+FPS probably don't understand me either even though I feel little to no difference above 60. I find 30FPS is only good for cutscenes, e.g. anything where you can sit back and avoid inputting anything while it runs.
I think the very least modern games can do is include support for 30-60 FPS.
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well, turn-based games are fine even at 15fps ;)
but i get you
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Good point! No problem with turn-based games (though sometimes it can still be annoying with the stuttering after each input)
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With my gsync predator I found it still plays smooth and looks good down to around 15- 20 fps but I don't keep it there. I will crank it up till I am around 50 then stop. Most games I can get away with max but even with two 980s 3440x1440 is tough. Damn that new Tomb Raider game.
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you want to control the mouse in turn-based games with 15fps? have fun then! :P
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well, yeah.
i mean in Xcom2. while they are not moving the frame rate is usually higher.
when they are moving, it sometimes clutter, depends how much stuff they have to pass thourgh...
in theory, i need a new GPU. but not yet ;)
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Technically 30 fps gives you same delay as 33 ping, not 100+
Also in most cases constant 30 fps means much smoother gameplay than variable 40-45 fps. Also most monitors got locked refresh rate, so they always display 30 or 60 fps, never 40 fps, so 40 fps can cause much bigger input lag than constant 30 fps.
Also while it is in theory possible to notice a difference between 60 fps and 120 fps, the study showed that while seeing two screens with the same content, one displayed at 60 fps and another one at 120 fps, at the question which one is smoother 52% of people showed 120 fps screen and 48% pointed at 60 fps one. Which means that 96% people had no idea and just guessed. (I oversimplified this one a bit, but only a bit)
The same study shoved that testing 30 fps vs 60 fps over 70% pointed correctly at the 60 fps. (Also 80% of testers were unable to tell the difference between 720p and 1080p, and less than 5% noticed difference between 1080p and 4K, but it is possible to tweak settings on monitor to make 85% to test subjects to point selected screen as better looking - in simpler words, if you sell monitors it is very easy to forge proofs that the more expensive one is better)
And in some games 30 fps is fully acceptable. I prefer 60 fps, but it is not always required.
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Also most monitors got locked refresh rate,so they always display 30 or 60 fps, never 40 fps, so 40 fps can cause much bigger input lag than constant 30 fps.
wat? no.. you got that wrong. A monitor at 60hz always shows 60fps, those that it gets from the gpu. The gpu always send 60 fps too, its content however doesn't mean 60 unique game pictures, if the game runs at 30 then it repeats each game-frame. At 40 game-fps it repeats every other game frame. Input-lag is never worse with higher framerate.
And the studies, people who don't know (or care) the difference, can't tell. Somebody who knows/prefers higher will always recognize the higher ones.
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Not really. If you have 40 fps, the frame is ready to be displayed after 25 ms. And if you have refresh rate of 60 fps new one will be shown every 16,6 ms. Even if you really are refreshing them every 16,6 ms game engine still refreshes game physics after each 25 ms.
So we have, like this:
time 0 ms. Beginning of 1-st frame. Displayed frame 1.
time 16,6 ms. computer still is calculating frame 2. Displayed frame 1, frame repeated.
time 25 ms. Beginning of frame 2. Displayed frame 1.
time 33,3 ms. computer is calculating frame 3. Displayed frame 2 - 8,3 ms after it has begun.
time 50 ms. Beginning of frame 3. Displayed frame 2.
time 60 ms. computer is calculating frame 4. Displayed frame 3 - the player can see imput lag of 16,6 ms (like in 60 fps) but the objects have moved by the distance covered in 25 ms.
And here is the problem. You will get uneven movement on the screen. And it is easy for humans to see this. It makes us feel uneasy. Also in 30 fps you always have 33,3 ms to react (in real life best of us can count to get reaction times close to 100 ms, so in real life you will be still 3-4 frames late) in constant 40 fps you can get as little as 0,4 ms to react to what you see on screen, so in the end you'll lose one more frame due to unsynchronised display. And it can give you extra 24,6 ping in worst case scenario. (unless your monitor can do variable fps)
There is no advantage in 40 fps over 30 fps on monitor with locked refresh rate.
And studies are important, because most gamers are casual gamers, not hard-core gamers. So if you want to spend 20-50 million $ on making a game then you need to know what will give you more money, and what will give you less. 60 fps usually doesn't pay off, because in the end only some players will see the difference, and even less will care. And uneven fps is much more visible than 30 fps, much more annoying to most people - and this more likely will pay off.
Still I prefer to play in 60 fps.
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Your example clearly shows that input-lag is lower with 40 fps (that was the initial point). But you also completely forgot vsync, with it on it perfectly syncs on each frame and only then begins calculating the next after displaying the previous (unless with enabled triple buffering etc)
with it off however it shows parts of old and new frame, essentially no lag but in exchange for tearing.
Thus plenty of options for each user's preference to get the positive sides out of it.
The uneven movement issue, indeed is there but that's the fun with >30fps, it is far less noticeable at higher framerates.
Whenever I can't reach 60 I still go for 40-50 as it still looks more fluid than 30. So yes there is an advantage.
And I don't know why you suddenly put up reaction times now at all, this is completely off topic.
but
you can get as little as 0,4 ms to react
0,4ms? where do you get that number?
And big companies are freaking lazy and cheap, we know that much.
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i play some games even bellow 30fps cause i have a potato for a pc and because i'm too poor to buy a new one xD
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I don't consider 30FPS playable at all and I don't understand people who do
Well, some people can't even run games at 30 FPS. I was stuck at ~20-25 FPS for years until my recent GPU upgrade.
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it's all about what you're used to. i played Wing Commander on my Amiga with ~5fps or something like that. Also lots of simulators with 5-10fps on the 386. that doesn't mean i still consider this playable, after getting used to 60fps for so many years.
i am not trying to convince anyone to feel the same way as me about this. if someone is fine with 30fps or even less than that - that's great. but i would ask to accept that not everyone has the same expectations when it comes to video games. technical limitations can be so severe that they significantly lessen your experience. it's not the same for everybody, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen at all.
look at games that came to PC with only 720p. a technical limitation, and it pissed people off. Dark Souls is one example, and DSFix (mod that fixes resolution and frame rate) is extremely popular. FFXIII came with 720p, and people were so upset about it that Square Enix fixed the resolution, despite initially thinking they could get away with that. and i don't remember many people saying resolution doesn't matter, and everyone else should grow up. but whenever someone complains about a 30fps lock, exactly this happens. ^^
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but i would ask to accept that not everyone has the same expectations when it comes to video games
Err, that was kind of my point actually. Dan said that he couldn't understand how anybody could consider 30 FPS playable, and what I'm saying is that not everyone can, need or even want to play every game at 30 FPS+. :P
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sure, i didn't want to critizise anything you said. just wanted to let my thoughts about this flow... ;)
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I swear i really can't tell different between 60fps and 30 fps, samething with resolution 720p to 1080p. I mostly play games for Story and enjoyment so i care less about those thing.
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Are you using a monitor that is at least 60hz?
Because the difference between 30 and 60 fps are pretty obvious, as is 60 and 144 fps.
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Yes but to my eyes i can't tell. I was also talking about Consoles too. But i don't have monitor that does 144 fps. So i never know. I have played games of Xbox One and PS4 can't tell different between their resolution and fps.
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Some people just can't tell the difference between 30 fps and 60 fps. Very few can see difference between 60 fps vs anything more.
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i think many console gamers can't tell the difference. they rarely ever see 60fps. the thing is, if you were used to 60fps all the time for years, you would be able to tell the difference in every game, in an instant.
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In action games, framerate is pretty damn important though. Animation is fast, and you can see it is not smooth, which is pretty distracting. In films they avoid this by slow-motion, but action games cannot be all about slo-mo. (Unless they are called Max Payne.)
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In films they avoid this by slow-motion
actually it's motion-blur
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That too. I meant they avoid the problem by slowing down the action, so it doesn't look that choppy even at 24 frames. Blurring is a good way to make fluid motion in general though, that is for sure.
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Cameras record it naturally with motion-blur. That way the problem doesn't even turn up, is what I meant
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Yeah, motion blur is natural in film which is why 24 fps is OK. This is also why games try to fake it to make it feel smoother.
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does that mean the PS3/X360 versions are the same game has ps4/X1? because even being a port on PC the newer consoles are enough to run a game like this at 60fps. I think Activision is selling us the old gen version
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Disappointed, but hopefully still plays like platinum's other games. I mean as clover they put out God hand, and that suffers from frame drops, but is still great
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Probably because he likes Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and/or action/hack and slash games and while 60fps is nice, it's not everything in a game? Plenty of reasons to play it, really.
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All games should run at 60 FPS minimum, even though some are somewhat tolerable at 30.
I know Platinum started as consoles-only, but they released 3 games on steam before Turtles and I think none of them had a 30 FPS lock. So it's as weird as it it disappointing that this game is locked to 30.
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And they said it doesn't have co-op so it can be 60 fps on consoles!
UK physical copies starting at £7 should've alarmed, but then again Devastation was very cheap on UK physical too. :P
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I grew up with 0-30 FPS and 60 FPS is unenjoyably, too fast so i dont have a problem with this, 30 FPS IF i am lucky enough to even fully get, is far more than enough for me, im used to hardships and inconvienences, i have to use what i can get, cant choose the best.
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their previous games all ran at 60fps. so they even "un-learned". ^^
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I'm in the "important in some cases, nice in all cases" camp. I wouldn't demand 60fps for everything but I definitely agree there's no reason (I'm aware of) for this type of recently-made game to be locked at 30fps on PC.
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Oh i didn't know that.
Thanks for info!
And they are turtles, maybe that's why it is not fast... (^_^')
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Didn't even know it was out :P
To be honest, I don't mind that much locked framerates. I mean, I prefer 60 fps, sure, but I get used to 30 pretty fast. Although I've heard some people may get sick with a low framerate so I guess it's better to unlock it.
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FPS lock aside, is it any good? Looks like most negative reviews stating 30fps lock as the reason for the negativity but I saw a review stating its too repetitive.
Their transformers game looks like its pretty good too.
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don't know, i stopped playing after the tutorial. i really didn't enjoy it that much with 30fps, so my plan is to wait for a fix now. and yes, first opinions don't sound too good. a shame, because Transformers Devastation was actually awesome.
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I don't understand why people have such a problem with 30 fps, but I grew up on consoles and game with a shitty laptop that can barely reach 20, so maybe I'm just used to it.
Locking framerate is kinda stupid though, limiting performance is stupid. I don't really care, because i won't even be able to reach 30 anyway.
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yeah, you won't understand until you get a top of the line card and have played smooth 80+fps ultra on new AAA games before
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I probably still won't. I can get behind preferring stuff, but demands I'm not a fan off. But, I guess consumers do deserve the righht to expect certain things from developers, though I don't framerate a big enough problem to put so much effort into complaining about restrictions. Fov, on the other hand...
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also add if you have a 120hz+ monitor. going back to 60 feels like walking in a mud. Mouse movements feels icky, though freesync/gsync solves that
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I felt the same, but then I reinstalled Vice City and there was an option to unlock the frame rate. It broke some stuff, but the the smoothness, I finally understood why 60+ fps was so important for many. Hooray for mods for fixing it.
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most likely it's to simulate animation intentionally and not a performance reason
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nope, clearly not the case. just look at some gameplay. also, Transformers Devastation also ran at 60.
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well, a transformer would definitely have less polygons than a turtle, but still, seems just plain crazy to let a technical reason like that stop them from optimizing until they get it to a decent framerate in this day and age
I have a few games in my library that are 30fps, I simply can not play them until someone finds a way to patch them.
30fps is horrible
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This is karma for trying to revive a media franchise from my childhood that is, to be frank, utter rubbish.
I mean, I loved it when I was a kid, but come on. It's dumb as hell, and it should have continued to exist only in my mind and in the minds of my generational peers as a thin and papery nostalgia that could not hold up under the weight of an adult consciousness.
But they had to keep bringing it back, just keep exposing the world to the lie that mutant !@#$ing turtles that love pizza and know martial arts and fight !@#$ing mutant sewer rats and some !@#$ cosplay ninja were worthy entertainment.
</rant>
But I'm not happy that the game you want to enjoy has been crapported to PC. That sucks.
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i'm not a Turtles fan or anything, I just enjoy Platinum games. and so far most of them were great. their last one - Transformers Devastation - was awesome. and i am not a Transformers fan either. ^^ it's more about the gameplay than what skin the characters have.
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I do not buy games with 30fps lock <___<
This twenty-first century or what?
The GeForce GTX 1080 has 9 Teraflops, and devs still use lock, meh
And this game not really beautiful
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I enjoy 60 fps when available. But do I demand it? No. Personally, 30 fps has never bothered me. However, I can understand how people feel "cheated" when a game arbitrarily locks the frame rate.
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30 fps is console peasant shit.
Seriously, look at the new DOOM, how it runs and performs.
Why doesn't every dev team do it like that?
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So, the new Platinum game - Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles™: Mutants in Manhattan - is locked to 30fps. It just sucks. I wanted to play it this evening. Will instead do something else now and hope they fix this. The moment I started the tutorial it felt stuttery, and I thought "oh no, it can't be!" I think all the Platinum PC games supported 60fps. Not sure what happened here.
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