No replacement = in nearly 100% of the cases then a deletion of the GA and the mods handle this tickets with a priority, so faster as 1 week (i would say normaly in 2-3 days).
I bet none come around with a faster solution.
Comment has been collapsed.
This would streamline the process to be as fast and give correct visible feedback on user profiles.
I think everyone good and moral agrees that correct feedback visible on site would improve the site and follow it's spirit.
Comment has been collapsed.
I think everyone good and moral agrees
I think everyone good and moral realizes that gifters do winners a favor by providing them keys. I don't know where the hell comes this mindset where gifters owe winners stuff. It's called SteamGIFTs, not SteamDEBTs.
Comment has been collapsed.
I think everyone good and moral should read the damn rules of the site they're joining.
Comment has been collapsed.
I think someone needs to learn the difference between TOS, law and moral.
Comment has been collapsed.
Bruh, by using the site you agree to follow the rules which clearly state that the giveaway creator must provide a working key or gift copy of the game they're giving away. What is not clicking?
Comment has been collapsed.
Where the problem is located? If the key is not working, mark it as "not-received".
You cannot skip situations where the key was invalidated by dev etc. - you're provided a working key.
There isn't a way to check if the key is ok or not other than trying to activate a game on your account.
Note that if the key does not work - and the winner indicates that the key does not work - nothing happens. And the other side of the coin - this is the only way you can track down people who, for example, use the key and activate it on another account reporting that it does not work. Many "Not received" on a given account will arouse your interest in that user.
At some point, you're definitely going to encounter a key that doesn't work - even one freshly purchased from a store like Humble Bundle.
Comment has been collapsed.
The issue is that you can know that the key isn't working on day 1, and if the creator is unable/unwilling to provide another one, you will have to wait 7 days to mark it as "not received" and in that timeframe you can't enter giveaways for the same game because you've already "won" it. So you're just sitting there twiddling your thumbs, unable to enter giveaways because the giveaway creator isn't providing a working key and you can't let the site know that you won't receive a working one.
Comment has been collapsed.
And If I actually (creator) don't have time today to log into Steamgifts? Maybe this is the weekend and I'm outside home? This is not a shop site, it's a Steamgifts - you can't demand from people to be here 24h because you're just won a game and need to activate it ASAP?
The same situation from the other side: the winner can also take a key a few days later, use it, and make feedback two days later.
Comment has been collapsed.
You should re-read the OP if you haven't already done so. You'd have to be here before any feedback is allowed.
Winner informs creator (Or just jumps to point 5.)
Creator tells no replacement available.
Winner ask "Please approve mark of "Not Received"
Creator provides consent.
Comment has been collapsed.
Indeed, and as things stand, the system is set up to coerce users into allowing a a deletion (so they may continue to enter giveaways for the game) over marking proper feedback, since a deletion typically goes through much faster than the one week required before a Not Received is able to be marked.
I don't believe much traction will be gained on this subject, however, since most giveaway creators are obviously going to side with themselves and push for deletion over anything that nets them a Not Received on their profile.
Comment has been collapsed.
I too used to ask to remove keys that didn't work to have a clean profile. Until I asked myself, "why?"
It doesn't change anything and doesn't really involve moderators unnecessarily. They have something to do and nowadays it takes a long time to process a ticket - let's not add more to their workload.
Currently, I gave 3.000 games where 24 keys were invalid. When I had a replacement key, I've provided a new one. If I don't - tell the user to mark "not-received". Problem solved without engaging anyone and taking his time to process this.
Creator tells no replacement available.
Winner ask "Please approve mark of "Not Received"
= This always takes time. As you see I've told about the different situation than the topic.
Also, there is no option (for the winner) to reroll a won game when he rejects the gift. Same situation.
Comment has been collapsed.
You're still missing the entire point of the OP.
You cannot mark a giveaway "Not Received" until a week after the giveaway ends. During this time, you cannot enter giveaways for the same game. Why should a winner be penalized when a giveaway creator cannot deliver?
This always takes time.
Sure, but it can take much less than a week. As I stated, though, I don't believe many giveaway creators will approve of taking a NR on their profile, and will instead push for deletion.
Comment has been collapsed.
I think everyone good and moral feels obligated to give the winner what they say they're going to give the winner. I don't know where the hell comes this mindset that the winner owes the giveaway creator a deletion. It's called SteamGIFTS, not SteamDELETIONS.
See? I can do it, too.
Comment has been collapsed.
I think everyone good and moral feels obligated to give the winner what they say they're going to give the winner
Yeah, it works in an ideal world where keys don't get randomly invalidated, with no way for their current owner to check them.
Sadly we don't live in such a world... as you are probably very aware of 🤷
Comment has been collapsed.
Of course I realize this. It's happened to me. But I make every attempt to replace the gift, and am prepared to accept a NR if I cannot.
But this isn't what the OP is about. It's about the winner being unable to enter giveaways for that same game for a week because a creator was unable to deliver.
Comment has been collapsed.
Btw, since you're somewhat ancient here, wasn't there a time where the feedback used to work like this? I think it was changed around the time where "received" was locked after 30 days, but I can't find it in the change log 🤔 ...
Comment has been collapsed.
If it was, I don't remember it, but perhaps someone else remembers better than I do.
Aside: IMHO (and I've stated this in similar threads in the past), there's far too much stigma attached, whether by individuals or giveaway groups, to a Not Received on one's profile, and this has led to more dissention among users than I believe it should. It shouldn't be as big a deal as it is, especially given what you've said about keys being revoked, etc, to see a Not Received on someone's Steamgifts profile. Unless someone is intentionally creating fake giveaways (or intentionally mismarking feedback), and as long as creators are making an honest effort to get their winners their wins, the occasional Not Received should be far more accepted than it is.
Perhaps this is an issue that can be addressed from multiple sides.
Comment has been collapsed.
Personally I like the idea,but I would like to make things easier than that. Also without putting more burden on mods.
Maybe additional button on page, where GA creator can send key?
This way, when ga winner contacts ga cre4ator he/she can allow for faster feedback themself?
Comment has been collapsed.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but the creator can just edit the key field.
Comment has been collapsed.
Yes, you are misunderstanding.
I can change key inside, but I can't allow winner to mark GA as not received earlier.
Comment has been collapsed.
Maybe additional button on page, where GA creator can send key?
So what did you mean by this?
Comment has been collapsed.
Something like that.
behold my power of paint editing!!!
Comment has been collapsed.
Ah, with "send key" you meant give permission? I thought you meant send Steam key.
I think this would be an elegant solution, as you said no need to burden support crew more.
Comment has been collapsed.
I would remove point 7 and 8. Why give another job to mods? Put another button on ga page, where creator can allow for earlier negative feedback.
Comment has been collapsed.
I actually like this. Allows easy and fast action. No support involved.
Comment has been collapsed.
I mean... you can write a comment on the GA. "hey the key is invalid" or something. The not received button exists for situations where the GA maker is basically absent and uncontactable, which means it's fair to wait a week before doing so. People have lives outside of SG
Comment has been collapsed.
The crucial point you're missing is
1,5 winner receives the key.
The 7 day limitation is the time limitation on key delivery.
The not received status is just feedback. Please provide me one argument why it shouldn't be possible to use it as soon as the key is delivered, which in most cases would just mean that the winner clicked "View key". Not received doesn't have any negative impact on the creator, so I don't know why it can't be used simply to state the key did not work and use a comment just to provide additional info instead of risking the comment might get lost among all the incoming messages
Comment has been collapsed.
It has negetive impact on ga winner. You can't enter giveaways for the same game that you have won already.
Comment has been collapsed.
I know, I only stated that it has no negative impact on GA creator, he can still provide a replacement key regardless of the status
Basically the winner should be able to provide feedback as soon as key is delivered. While it can't be tracked for gifts etc if the key is provided by the build in system it should be possible to provide feedback as soon as the key is redeemed
I havn't heard of a case that somebody would troll the winner by providing a fake key and replacing it before the 7 day period and in the case the key was invalid due to other reasons it's not a big deal if the creator gets a not received for a few days. Why in such case should we require mods attention and all the additional steps?
That would still leave the 7 day period for wins delivered outside of the portal, but they're in the minority either way and this would certainly require much less changes and mods effort than the proposed solution
Comment has been collapsed.
That 7 days period leaves room for communication. I once delivered wrong key, winner contacted me, and I gave another one (because I had two of them). Sometimes it might take more time. So - even if one key was delivered, it doesn't mean, that everything is over.
And receiving feedback is almost final. Some users would not change feedback even after receiving working key.
Comment has been collapsed.
Yes, sometimes I have multiple keys so I can replace it or get a replacement.
Doing it this way still allows creator to sort it out in weeks time. And there is chance that winner eventually gets it just bit later. I'm against instant feedback as winner might just stop communicating. Also I think there might be some winners that would exploit it...
Comment has been collapsed.
How would you exploit a situation which first requires a failure on the creators side? I don't see any other possibilities that we already have with the 7day grace period.
Additionally if the creator is absent and delivers the key near the end of the 7 day period we already have a situation when the winner can provide almost instant feedback, and I haven't heard of any exploits regarding such scenario
Comment has been collapsed.
In current situation it's pretty clear that instantly after winner tells key was bad creator moves to the obvious bad solution of deleting giveaway. Instead it should move to "Not Received" instantly if the creator has no intention to replace the key.
Asking for this feedback after bad key, just allows speeding up this process from both sides with less communication. The creator could just ask to try new key or accept gift on Steam instead.
Comment has been collapsed.
Wouldn't he be able to do the same after getting the not received status? I don't know why people are so afraid of getting it for a day or two before the situation gets resolved.
From my experience in majority of cases the creator either way asks to delete the GA. Feedback system is what it is. It's there to provide feedback. If you get a damaged product would you keep saying everything is ok, till the seller refuses to get a replacement? You have the right to call a failure what it is, but at the same time you should update the feedback/review/rating, whatever system was used, once a resolution is reached. Mistakes happen but basically by enforcing a permission from the creator you once again move the consequences of creator's failure to the winner.
Furthermore that also is exploitable. The winner might just not grant the permission to one user, cause he doesn't like him, even though he has no intention/capability to replace the key.
Comment has been collapsed.
If the winner fails to update feedback you could create a ticket just like now, when the winner doesn't mark the key as received. Like I said feedback is not final, so this shouldn't be a problem. And if we talk about winners not providing feedback this could happen after the 7 day period as well
Comment has been collapsed.
Sure thing - I can create a ticket.
My idea is to reduce number of tickets as much as possible. Even if that default 7 days period can reduce number of "force feedbak" tickets by one - it's wotrh it.
Comment has been collapsed.
Same for me, I would also like to reduce number of "delete giveaway" tickets Putting aside how many creators are afraid of the not received status, the winner in such case is stuck with a win notification and is unable to join other giveaways and has to remember to come back a week later to set the not received status, so basically for the winner it's also better to agree to a deletion.
Wouldn't it be better if the matter could be resolved immediately and instead of multiple delete GA tickets, there would be just few "force feedback" ones? Basically it's all about how much trust we place in the winners to update the status accordingly if a resolution is finally reached.
Still creators who try to resolve the issues are unfortunately in the minority so in most cases simply marking the GA as not received would be the end in opposition to deleting it which is now better for both the creator and the winner.
If everything goes well we would exchange "delete giveaway" for "force status" tickets at something like 20:1 ratio, or maybe even better one
Edit: Your solution with another button and a flag set by the creator simply requires more coding and could lead to a number of "Allow non-received status" tickets in those cases where the creator for some reason fails to grant that right even after admitting he's not able to provide replacement. Be it malicious or not he may just not click that button
Comment has been collapsed.
Please provide me one argument why it shouldn't be possible to use it as soon as the key is delivered
On a side note, I'm pretty sure that's how this feedback button used to work some years ago. I can't seem to find the announcement about the change though :/
Comment has been collapsed.
As far as I remember it has always been like that. Statuses are older than the build in delivery system so they never took the new mechanism into account. I even made such suggestion 3 years ago directly to the team via a ticket.
Comment has been collapsed.
Immediate Not received could lead to situations where the winner starts entering other giveaways for the same game, maybe even wins it again even though the original creator was ready to replace the key.
Comment has been collapsed.
The thing is this whole topic is to allow the winner not to miss some kind of promo period where there are more giveaways for a specific game. If he ends up winning it for the second time, how would it differ form a situation when the not received win was older for example from a previous month and now the old creator manages to get a hand of a second key and would try to replace it? Obviously one of the wins would need to be rerolled in such scenario.
I know that it's not the best solution, but involving staff when there's no need to is probably worse.
Btw for a month you can already change the status to not received, so if somebody would like to exploit the status system he already can do it for the 3 weeks between the initial 1 week period, and the time the status gets locked to received
Edit: Sorry edited the wrong post
Comment has been collapsed.
I think the button to mark "not received" should be instantly unlocked if the key gets send through the site's gifting process. Like, if i put the key in the textbox when creating the GA, and then when it has endes and I press "send key" the button for marking not received should be unlocked for the winner.
The reason why I think the button shouldn't be instantly unlocked the moment spacecat appears, especially when the giftng takes place outside of the site (like buying the gift through Steam) is that it could be exploited to hell and back to enter more giveaways. 'This person hasn't been online in 2 hours, and more giveaways of this game end soon. I'll mark "not received" so I can enter those and hopefully get the game faster that way.'
Comment has been collapsed.
I won a giveaway recently and key was already used. I told the creator I would consent to deletion. Creator made a support ticket asking for deletion while later gifting me the game on Steam. I accepted the gift and marked GA as received.
Support deleted the the GA.
edit: is this an acceptable blueprint for a GA description?
The more time passes - the more keys become unusable and bundle sites become less and less trustable.
So I'm activating or giving away old keys.
All of them should work but there is a small chance that key would be invalid. In that case I don't intend to give any replacement key. I don't have time to look for another key on another site, also steam gifting policy sucks.Therefore:
BY ENTERING THIS GIVEAWAY - YOU AGREE TO RESPECT STEAMGIFTS RULES AND MARK THE GIVEAWAY AS NOT RECEIVED AFTER ONE WEEK IF KEY DOES NOT WORKIf unlucky winner would ask me for giveaway deletion - I would kindly agree. I'm a nice guy after all.
Comment has been collapsed.
EDIT: Lol, there are so many pubic GAs lately demanding just the opposite (i.e. GA's deletion agreement), that I've totally misread your post. Yup, sure, this description is fine by me :)
=============
It is certainly not binding within SG rules, so mods would do nothing out of usual based on it. However some groups have it as their own rule (LootBoy SG, Delete giveaway if key is not working SG), and within such groups it would lead to winner to be banned from the group, if the winner did not agree to the deletion.
Actually, I would like folks to be punished for posting such descriptions on public GAs, because it's against the rules to attach additional requirements to such GAs. I don't mind though folks saying this in a different, more informative, than demanding, form, like: "Entering this GA please be aware, that it's an old keys, so if it doesn't work I will not be able to replace it and I will ask for your permission to delete the GA."
Personally, almost all GAs for keys from sites I don't 100% trust, and which I would have problems with getting a replacement, I make for those 2 groups mentioned above. However I do usually share those GAs with my 💙 friends, and if one of them did not agree to a deletion, I would consider removing them from my whitelist, which would not be a case with with a public GA.
Comment has been collapsed.
Imagine that what you are asking for comes true, it will only make a difference if you manage to win the same game again in another giveaway and this during the same week... How many chances of winning the same game twice in a week? It's going to happen so rarely that I don't see the point of complicating things just to allow it.
Comment has been collapsed.
I really don't see it as a big problem, if I can't enter GAs for a particular game for a week. Saying so, I think, that there is a simpler way to get the results, that you are asking for - we could have an option to just mark a GA as "not received" at any time, but doing so before 7 days have passed should then trigger a warning, that if it is not done with an approval of GA creator, it will lead to suspension. Still, I'm afraid, that this could raise some tensions here, with quite a few of failed GAs creators refusing to give such permission, saying things like: "... but I still hope, that I will be able to find a replacement key shortly, so for now I can only agree to deletion of the GA."
Comment has been collapsed.
If you are missing 10 other giveaways of the same game in that week, the game is probably on sale somewhere for $1. Go look for it.
Buy it, don't activate the key until things are resolved with the GA, and lastly make your own GA if you now have 2 working keys.
Comment has been collapsed.
I am not really sure what is all that antideletion campaigne about. When I want to create unbundled giveaway, I buy key in humble store, which doesn't provide me list of regions where it can be activated, which seems to me sometimes random, or maybe I am just unlucky, because even Fanatical once provided me key for completely diffrent region than I am from ( and not, I never used VPN).
So if I start giveaway like that, does that mean to you I am cheater deserving punishment? Should we even create giveaways to accidently don't block chnaces for others enter more giveaways of game?
Multiple times I had problem on long trains that I accidently copied wrong game key in, but I always provided right key same day, when winner asked, even when they were rude due to it. Why just forbidd deletion, maybe should be gifters immidietely banned for mistape... that would solve your fear of losing something if it happens again.
Ungrateful winners are worse, many people don't even bother gifters with feedback to let them replace key. I believe not recieved mark on other side should not be able to use without trying to reach gifter and consult what is wrong and make a deal on solution - marking not recieved, deleting, replacing. Sometimes you can see people misusing devs promo keys from 50+ copies marking not recieved, while they gifted same game after giveaway ended in 7 day feedback cooldown or maybe sold them outside. That is okay and deleting isn't?
Comment has been collapsed.
Deleting really in my mind should nowadays never be needed. There was case of no people left to reroll, but I think even that is now fixed.
So there is absolutely zero reason to delete giveaways after end as there is perfectly good and working feature on site "Not Received".
Comment has been collapsed.
So you are just really desperate to get red cross faster to see on your won stats games you wasn't able to idle. When I confirmed deletion, it was done in 48 hours, no 7 days waiting...
Comment has been collapsed.
Yes 48 hours. I don't see any reason why the proper correct way shouldn't happen in the same time. That is Not received instead of deletion.
Comment has been collapsed.
"Sometimes you can see people misusing devs promo keys from 50+ copies marking not recieved, while they gifted same game after giveaway ended in 7 day feedback cooldown or maybe sold them outside."
People like that should be permanently banned.
Comment has been collapsed.
Checked some my old user reports, seems like they got suspendion in lenght of days and GA deleted. If they never mark any feedback, would someone ever notice in 1000 copies? 🤔
Masafor probably know better for how long such people get suspended. My highest regifter had about 3 and if I found right guy on list, he isn't banned.
Comment has been collapsed.
Not banning people that re-gift wins or sell their wins is just... counterproductive (to not use stronger words).
It is good that at least when I reported a guy that was using 50 accounts he got all his accounts banned...
Comment has been collapsed.
The meta-meaning for "Not Received" is maliciousness on the giver's part.
Steam keys usually work but sometimes there's problems and the window of time (during which resolutions can happen and regularly enough do) is to see if those can be fixed. We collectively have an agreement about this possibility of a bad key and accept the deletion. It's about good faith.
There's no benefit for the giver if a giveaway hasn't been marked and if mods detect abuse (ie. frequent malfunctioning keys indicating likely bad faith) they will take disciplinary action.
Comment has been collapsed.
Currently there is seemingly approved exploitation of feedback system going on this site. That is creators not standing behind their giveaways or accepting the intended resolution for fake keys they provide. Thus to replace the deletion instead winner should have right to ask immediate feed back from moderators so they can join available giveaways sooner than in a week.
This should happen with approval of creator.
Example:
This would remove the need for "Allow Deletion if key does not work". And follow the spirit of the site and feedback system.
Comment has been collapsed.