this is UNACCEPTABLE!!!
on a serious note, people are overexaggerating about the performance downgrade that its laughable
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Denuvo appears to be much like Uplay DRM- some people don't seem to have significant issues, while others report having the game severely underperform, be filled with glitches, or outright break on them. Much like Uplay DRM, the ratio of those who have significant issues with any particular game, seems to vary game to game.
Of course, there've also been reports of games requiring patches early on, because Denuvo broke a game in specific ways.
If you have your own perspective to offer on the situation, please feel free to offer it, but mocking people without first actually taking the time to listen to their concerns is never an admirable thing. In fact, you can see many additional concerns, outside of basic stability issues, listed within this very thread, all posted well before your own comment.
In any case, on top of all the many concerns over Denuvo affecting performance (and honestly, even if someone wants to gripe about 1-4fps, then it's not our place to judge them anyway, any more than it's our place to judge someone for differing artistic preferences. People simply have differing preferences for games. Nevermind that some gamers may be playing with low FPS rates to begin with, meaning 4 FPS could be a huge difference for their game's performance), there's the fact that Denuvo is usually cracked within a couple of weeks.
While Denuvo insists that most piracy happens within those early weeks and thus the massive price tag of implementing Denuvo is merited, there are many critics who doubt the legitimacy of that claim. As such, many gamers are convinced that Denuvo is not only game-breaking, but also completely useless and self-sabotaging (in regards to both financial gain and consumer opinion) for the company that implements it. Hence the intensity of the disdain for the service.
That all said, reports like the one below, regarding having to pirate a functioning copy of a game because SecuROM or Denuvo broke their copy [or prevented it from being played due to connection issues], are all too common, and are most definitely the most notable frustration of the service, well beyond any "1-4 FPS" concerns.
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"there's the fact that Denuvo is usually cracked within a couple of weeks."
well not anymore, Bulgarian officers arrested the guy who cracked those games, sadly the denuvo games will be cracked within a couple of months instead.
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Well, Life is Strange: Before the Storm was cracked within a single day, and Voksi was pretty open with his methods, so several weeks doesn't seem implausible still.. on the other hand, crackers may feel threatened off such efforts now that Voksi has been arrested. Guess it could go either way.
Anyway, I didn't actually hear about the arrest until now, appreciate you letting me know about it. While digital rights security is a complicated topic, Denuvo has always strongly painted itself as a sleezy adversary of consumers and exploitative manipulator of developers, while Voksi managed to present himself as an honest champion of consumers.
If Denuvo starts putting a bit more effort into the quality of how they implement their product and into being more in tune with consumers, then perhaps such matters won't lean so favorably in a single direction, in the future. ..then again, perhaps that's like expecting Valve to put more effort and engagement in, meaning it's likely we'll likely see Denuvo as "the enemy" until the end.
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DO YOU HAVE ANY NEGATIVE IMPACT ON THE GAME OR CUSTOMER EXPERIENCE?
No, since only performance non-critical game functions are used in the Anti-Tamper process, Anti-Tamper has no perceptible effect on game performance nor is Anti-Tamper to blame for any game crashes of genuine executables.
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Not always, sometimes it causes frame stuttering which is highly noticeable since it can cancel out your button presses while it occurs.
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Nobody really know because there aren't any ways to make proper tests. There isn't avalible any game in two version with and without this drm. Pirate versions if I'm not wrong only going around drm and not deleting it completely so drm is still working in the background. What's more how much it bring down performance can depends too on how it was implemented AND if developers added other drm like VMProtect. We can speculace BUT for example Assasin Creed Origin can take 100% cpu usage on more powerful cpu models even when there isn't happening too much on screen. Some people say that denuvo is taking some part of ram too (NFS Payback is taking more than 8GB even on lowest settings on 1440x900 resolution which is a pure madness).
From time to time someone who is working with drm will say something bad about it
https://wccftech.com/tekken-7-denuvo-drm-performance-issues/
but that's all.
The only thing we can say is that every DRM is pure sh***. Always the buyers are the ones who are hitted the most because of this.
Always online drm? Can't play when servers can't handle too much players but pirates in the meantime can play without problems - Sim City, Assasin Creed (it was 2?). I don't need to even mention what about situation when servers are shut down.
Game for Windows Live. To this days lot's of people have problems with make game work because of it.
Securom and his variations - blocked on all windows starting from vista. Want to play? Your problem not developers who added it to their games.
Limit activations - I never played games with this but I heard it is pain in the ass too. Every change in pc hardware create new activation. Even things like adding/changing hdd.
Several DRM in one game. There is nothing that justify this.
Assasin Creed Origins - Steam (if you use it) + uplay + denuvo + VMProtect + one time internet activation
GTA IV - Steam (if you use it) + SecuRom + GfWL + Rockstar Social Club
Captcha DRM. People who tried to play GTA V will know what I mean. After PC release Rockstar still didn't care to fix their broken captcha system. Because of Social Club DRM that you can't avoid every time you want to play.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VpWKwIjwLk
how optimized the game is on pc is what matter at the end of the day
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So we can conclude that the hit performance depends probably on how denuvo was implemented? Ofc not mentioning VMprotect cases.
BTW there is one interesting thing about RAM usage.
On Mass Effect Andromeda not only there is a noticable difference in fps but it use 2Gb less Ram.
In Mad Max steam version have ~1GB less RAM usage.
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Afaik Denuvo constantly checks your PC to see if it has any sort of "ilegal" program... And that just brings down the performance you could be getting for the game itself
Also I've heard people saying the games get many glitches while under Denuvo, once they remove it, game works perfect without glitches
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The first option would not be so much bad , because is mean so act as a sort of antivirus hahaha
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My computer hated Dragon Age : Inquisition and Rise of the Tomb Raider (which seem to have Denuvo) when it's fine with some other games with similar specs. Maybe a bad optimisation, probably my potato computer, might be a little bit Denuvo.
Also I've heard people saying the games get many glitches while under Denuvo, once they remove it, game works perfect without glitches
Like that kind of shit ? Rise of the Tomb Raider gave me a glitch per hour. I can't say that I enjoyed this game.
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Did they remove Denuvo from Rise of the TR? Well from what I've heard many people get glitches when the game uses Denuvo, but when they remove it (or get them cracked without it, I don't know) they say the glitches stop
I've never had problems with glitches but the games do run worst than they should
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I have no idea, I checked the list of Denuvo games on Wikipedia, Rise of the Tomb Raider is in the "list of games using Denuvo", not in the "list of games formerly using Denuvo". It should be still active then, though Wikipedia might be wrong or inaccurate.
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i play it on xboxone and this is what happen https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNTaoJXXDD0 so i think glitch problems is nit about denuvo is just the game that is bad about glitch hahaha anyway i like tomb raider so much happy i buy it,only i don't like is they put that bad "cards" in the game but is ok coz that is on extra game.
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first i think is not much sense talk about this topic,because soon videogames industry will give videogames only via streaming-cloud gaming , we can't buy game same now,next years comings we can only pay the store for play it online via stream cloud,and at that time any form of drm lile denuvo will stop to exist,because you don't download or execute the game in your machine,pc,device or whatever hardware,you will only see it in screen and interact with input.
For example you pay 9 euro at month,and you can play all games on steam via streaming,without need to buy it,this will happen soon im sure,right now is not possible because of internet delay so much,but if you think little years ago we play with low kb connection and now in some countries is possible play with mb or gb connections this say much about how fast internet speed bandwitch etc grow , also there is company that still work with srtificial inteligence technology and chips dedicated to predict,prevent,fix delay also in low connection speed for future streaming business.
Second Maybe because So if i can buy 1 game on gog.com or whatever other store without denuvo ,so is mean i can play it also offline when i don't have internet,and the price is the same or maybe also lower (because denuvo has a cost for the publisher) there is so no reason to buy the same game at the same price or upper price with denuvo that force me to play the game only when i have internet.
But is just 1 my idea,i dont know im not expert decurity and personally i do not care,i buy and own already a lot of games with it.
Another reason can be size and software , if a game with denuvo is 101kb,and without it is 100kb there is no reason for me to buy the denuvo version because size = storage and storage = lose money,so it is not a good deal to add unuseful software for no reason and busy storage.
Also denuvo don't give any vantage or rewards to the players,viceversa only can give problem (incompatibility etc)
So i buy 1 game for play the game,i not buy it for other people add unuseful software on it (and top of that make also money with it because denuvo is not free,publishers pay the company of it for use it,and players then pay the price of it in games too most of time).
Top of that history of videogames already show that 99,9% of drm is unuseful for who buy videogames,they don't add any contents or experience to it,so get it for what? no reason.
This is why videogames as the witcher 3 sell a lot and have success also without denuvo,no one care about it,only people that care is the company that create it for make money with it.
But people own theyr money,and they decide what to buy,so if someone don't like drm or denuvo just don't buy games with it,then would be ok,viceversa if is not a problem buy it,i personally don't care,for me the only thing important is if the game is my genre and if is good quality.
But i must to say,in the same way that is patetic who attack denuvo without say reason,is also patetic the media and/or who protect it with biased reason and corrupted opinion too.
Btw must to say also that there is server-side games (without denuvo) that cant be played offline (destiny,elitedangerous etc) so can happen also that someone maybe buy Astroneer instead of elite dangerous or destiny just because astroneer can play offline too without internet and elite dangerous or destiny no,can happen this too (that is not related to dmr but is a fact about games and online/offline check).
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"right now is not possible because of internet delay so much,but if you think little years ago we play with low kb connection and now in some countries is possible play with mb or gb connections"
There is a physical limit to internet delay. It would be around 7-8ms IF the server was 500km from your home (it could be farther though) and you were connected directly to it via cable straight from your PC to the server.
But considering that internet cables aren't straight, and packets might run zig-zagging through the network in unpredictable ways, and there are network devices that check and slow down communication, delay could easily stay above 40-50ms (and even 100ms in more remote areas). That kind of delay might make many games simply unplayable.
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im sure big companies especially microsoft and nvidia willl find way to fix it via magic software (i not know maybe ai prediction,quantum computing or wtf they can do) and hardware (i not know maybe special chips for streaming in theyr consoles etc) that they will create BUT would be not good for me (i not know for others) for sure because im sure then they will go to sell it at super expensive prices,and i like deals.
Also Phone/Internet company have business economic interest togheder with big companies (especially movie and games industry) to fix this so im sure they will find way to fix (maybe in future they not use cables too)
But as i said already for now sure is better for me,coz i like deals,and cloud in my opinion would kill deals forever sadly.
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There is no way to fix laws of physics, unless someone invents Star Trek tech that makes electricity or even light go faster.
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i hope for me you right,for sure they need time,i don't know what they can do with physics and if instead of cables in future they use other tech like star trek lol,but i see already nvidia now offer geforcenow cloud gaming and next xbox too will release a streaming console in 2020 "The second ‘console’ that the company is working on is a lower-powered device that is currently planned to ship with the next generation device that is designed for game-streaming. But the catch here is that Microsoft thinks it has figured out how to handle the latency sensitive aspects of gaming.
The cloud console will have a limited amount of compute locally for specific tasks like controller input, image processing, and importantly, collision detection"
- there is some microsoft engineer register some "patents" about new ai and quantum computing and cloud offload server tstudf hat fix delay but i not know what the hell they still do because im not much into that im just a player hehe
but thanks tomyour comment i hope you right and cloud business not go well so i can enjoy deals hehe
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The only way to handle high ping is to have cloud server farms everywhere in the world, so people can connect fast to the nearest one. Which isn't that hard for MS since they already have those. Same with other huge global companies.
But they will still be slower, it's aimed more at console players like with the new Xbox cloud version coming, than PC masterrace who wants only the best.
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yes true or maybe for who want to play games where people only need push button,same telltales or point and click or like this.... for sure is not good for do top1 at pubg...competitive...
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Ethic i guess^^
Perf losses, hard to break so do not hope play your game after support was shutdown in few years. You pay for Denuvo instead of paying for the game (the work done to create it), to stop people who got no money to get game they can't, no matter what, afford. Plus, as any bloatwares it just electricity loss for everyone, and for no purpose (Even if i think that's not a good argue, no indie game or poor dev here.). The world appreciate what you doing industry.
So... Denuvo is a thing, for many reasons.
As i know, others kind of DRM are not "real time" encryption. So at least they don't run in the background all day long. And there is less work involved in.
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in short you can't play the game offline, not even if its a singleplayer game
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You can play offline. It's not that bad. But like every steam game first launch should be online only. Also there is 5 pc daily activation limit. That probably is not an issue for most.
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so its probably steam or uplay DRM that prevents games from being played offline?
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Yakuza 0 won't launch and game freeze for many people. Cpu spike to 100 % when that happen. Probably cuz of denuvo.
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Games that use Denuvo will not work when Denuvo shuts down. Denuvo requires you to have internet connection always to play even if it's single-player game. It degrades performance on machines that aren't above the recommended specifications for the game. It spies on you.
It's something you don't want on your computer. Denuvo has no benefit whatsoever. It doesn't protect games from piracy anymore. Games like The Witcher 3 and Cuphead proved that you don't need protection against piracy to have tons of sales anyway.
People who pirate games with Denuvo get better experience from the games compared to people who pay full price for them.
Denuvo reminds me of SecuROM. And people remember what garbage that is.
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Well, denuvo results from the management buyout of sony dadc digitalworks that developed securom. So that kind of makes denuvo the next generation securom.
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Games like The Witcher 3 and Cuphead proved that you don't need protection against piracy to have tons of sales anyway.
+1
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I do not like drm in general and server based authenticators even less. When the servers get disabled, you stop being able to access your games (unless the drm is patched out or you use a crack).
My personal grievance with denuvo is that it is the new product from the people (or at least the company) that were responsible for securom and the sony rootkit scandal. I will not install anything from them on my computer.
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just another excuse to pirate or wait till the game is $1. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Let me tell you a personal story in comic book format:
1st Frame. I bought "Fuel" (the racing game from Codemasters) in 2016.
2nd Frame. I immediately activated on Steam.
3rd Frame. In January 2018, I decided to play the game. Downloaded 4GB of files, started it up...
4th Frame. And then a window popped up, asking for a Securom key (by the way, same folks that brought us Denuvo).
5th Frame. I inserted the CD key from Steam, but it said "The SERIAL was not found in the database. "
6th Frame. Contacted Securom, they said "Contact the Publisher".
7th Frame. Contacted Codemasters, they said "Accept our apologies and contact your retailer to request a refund for your purchase."
8th Frame. I do not even remember what retailer I got this form... And even if I did, 2 years later, yeah, tough luck.
9th Frame. Though I really dislike any form of piracy, I went looking for a crack so I could play the game I actually paid for.
So, that is one of the reasons I am against any online activations, especially when they are ineffective and unnecessary.
And these people have a horrible history of installing unwanted software in our computers (Remember the sony rootkit? I bought a music CD that installed that crap in my computer, and it DID notably use system resources.)
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Codemasters actually gave me a new Securom key for Fuel with proof of purchase (necessary), when the same thing occured.
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Not to me, as you see by their answer... I guess it depends a lot on the particular person you talk to... Or maybe the date? I sent that message to them in 2016, maybe you did before?
Why do they like you more than me? Why, why why? :D :D :D
Cheers!
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My email to them was in March 2016...I suppose it's possible that at the time you sent yours, they were out of stock with keys since I am sure many were requesting them around this timeframe...but this is just my best guess and I can't really say for sure : )
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Why are people who use Steam against online activation? How else are you ever activating your Steam games to begin with?
Not that I support this DRM crap in any way, but really, if your Internet is out you have much bigger problems surviving than just not being able to play a small portion of games.
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There's a very extreme difference between a one time online activation, and one that needs to be constant every day.
If Steam goes out of business tomorrow i can play every non-denuvo game i have installed just fine in offline mode.
Denuvo games will be unplayable the very second they are out of business.
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https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=3160-agcb-2555
If the Steam client is requiring a login, there is no option to bypass that without going online.
If your game's status is "100% - Ready", but you receive the message "This game cannot be started in Offline Mode" when attempting to play offline, the Steam client and/or game files need to be updated.
You can play the ones you have installed, but not everyone has the space to install everything just in case. Also no idea what those actually mean since I'm never offline, but they sound like Steam as usual where it could randomly troll you by not working. Denuvo is much worse than Steam for sure, just saying no Internet is the worst. :)
The only good thing about it is that publisher usually feel they need to protect their game during initial launch since that's when they supposedly are losing most sales if you can get it for free. So if they like their players even one bit, they will remove it after couple weeks or so even if they felt like punishing paying customers with it before.
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Latest string of Denuvo-related fuckups (mostly games by published by Sega for some reason, they might be messing up on their end) is games not activating properly on launch day. See the latest Sonic games, Yakuza 0 apparently, ...
That doesn't help improve the reputation either.
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Basically, Denuvo is DRM for DRM. It's a layer on top of other DRM that prevents tampering/removal of the DRM. In order for it to work, it has to periodically "phone home." The time between phoning home is set by the developer/publisher, it can be after X number of times running the game, or X days from last check, or any combination of the two. Hardware changes and updates to Windows also force a call home. This means you can't play the game offline. If your internet is down or Denuvo's servers are down when it needs to phone home, then it can't verify that your game hasn't been tampered with and it will not let you play.
That happened to me with Deus Ex: Mankind Divided. It was the first and last time I will buy a game with Denuvo in it. I had just bought it and started playing when some storms damage my ISP's equipment leaving me without internet for several days. When I tried to play the game offline, I got an error. All my other Steam games worked just fine.
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but srsly apparently affects performance and can reduce the life of your hard drive, i just hate it cause of the principle of DRM just annoys honest buyers and does squad to stop piracy, alt ought denuvo has been a bit successful.
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Paranoic mode on
You dont really know which info is sending to the server.... or what its really does (i guess that nobody did reverse engineerie with it?)
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you have to be online to play offline games.
it spys on you.
brings down preformance.
and it screws over people that actually bought the game , so you are better off pirating the game instead.
I've been waiting for monster Hunter for a long ass time now , and I won't buy it till Denuvo is removed.
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It gets children addicted to crack!
Seriously though, it's a little bit of software that is just there to pretend to help you while it mines your data for re-selling most likely and uses your precious resources to do so. So basically it's just like 90% of 21st century software/app/OSes
So yeah it's unacceptable on principle because if they are going to use games to mine data for profit, they should at least NOT make you pay 50 bucks for it but if you have Windows 10, ever used google or have any app on you phone, congratulations, it changes nothing to your life.
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Denuvo performance varies a lot based on specific vidya and hardware you are running, the fact that you can run game just fine right now does not mean that it will be the same for every other game. My about-to-be brother in law is the best example - he played several Denuvo protected games with fine performance until he bought RIME at the release and despite having quite good PC (meeting all recommended criteria) it ran horribly (often sub-30 FPS with drops to 15 and common stuttering), he didn't refund just dropped the game, went to play sopmething else, 2 months later he launched it again (after Denuvo got removed) and suddenly the game ran in 45-60 FPS without any drops below 35.
So my position on Denuvo is the same as for any other invasive DRM - if I am a fair customer, purchasing the game officially in a legal way and I am being punished in order to 'fight the pirates' - then fuck you, I am not a pirate, yet I am the one getting punished in the proccess. I have dozens of other games I could rather play. It doesn't matter if one particular game performance will drop by 10% or 50% because of your DRM, if Denuvo problems will get fixed in 1 month time after release or never get fixed, what matters is that the people that are being punished are the ones who bought game, not pirated it, just for the sake of it I do not buy any Denuvo protected game until Denuvo gets cracked and developers patch it out (it in itself says a lot about Denuvo, if it didn't affect performance at all like they claim why would 90% of devs patch it out after it gets cracked? yet majority of devs take their time to patch Denuvo out after cracks are published).
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With or without Denuvo, pirate will mostly get the game
even if the game got tons of sold count, there's more unsold count because of of piracy
please, prove it wrong
pro tip : it's hard
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pro tip: you should prove your statements, not ask others to refute your claims while doing nothing to prove it :P
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Don't know it's because denuvo or not, but pirate version of Tales of Berseria works much better on my laptop
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Puyo Puyo Tetris “The game executable is 128MB big, of which just 5-6MB is the real game code. The rest of it is Denuvo. It’s the most bloated Denuvo I’ve ever seen.”
Note: I'm not against DENUVO because "I can't pirate this". I'm against DRM overall because I want to pay for games and own them. I own more than 2000 games on Steam, but feel free to call me a filthy pirate if you wish.
1) The first important thing I won't stop repeating to anyone uninformed. DENUVO is a DRM. By this I mean the following:
Games protected by DENUVO rely on 3rd party servers for activation. DENUVO servers (proof) or copies of these, provided by DENUVO and hosted by the publisher.
Activation data is being saved on your PC. It's based on unique data extracted from your hardware and Steam profile data. It's being checked before you run your game each time. If you wipe this data, you'll need to re-activate your game using 3rd party activation server.
This is how most other AAA-type DRM schemes work. DENUVO could easily act as a proper DRM by itself, for this they'd only need to include a serial key with each purchase, instead of relying on Steam "auth ticket" system.2) Because protected games rely on 3rd party servers to work, this is an additional barrier that needs to be passed before you can play your game. If something is not right at certain point of time, you may not be able to activate your game (some people have issues like this). Their server may be temporarily down, or your ISP may have problems, or your government may decide that some IP address hosts a website that breaks the law. And this is a real possible issue for some countries. If you lookup the DENUVO activation server domain, you'll see that "there are 603,537 domains hosted on this server". Some of them are real working websites. I was wrong.
If/when the party that hosts the activation server (DENUVO or a publisher) ceases to exist, developers or publishers may not be there to provide a solution for existing customers. The game will become unplayable for anyone who needs to activate or re-activate their copies.
There are some examples of older games that used certain kinds of DRM: Grand Theft Auto IV is unplayable for most new customers due to combination of various SecuROM/GFWL issues, Assault on Dark Athena is no longer available on Steam but available on GOG thanks to the crack.
Valve promised that if Steam goes down worldwide, they will do everything they can to keep games working and libraries intact. With games that only use their Steamworks API, Valve actually has ability and power to do this. DENUVO, like any other DRM provider, promised nothing to gamers. And they are in no position to distribute fixes and updates to gamers.
3) Perhaps the worst problem I'm having with games protected by DENUVO. DENUVO developers chose invisibility over transparency for end users. They call DENUVO a protection technology, not a DRM technology. But it does nothing to prevent possible problems that people can have with the game due to the fact that it's protected. Store pages of such games contain no information of being protected by 3rd party DRM. Now, people have to delve through publisher websites, EULA documents and system requirements to find out if the game contains this DRM. And then there are store pages like this that contain absolutely nothing about DENUVO. Intended or not, this is a blatant disinformation. I think it should be everyone's right to know if the game is protected by 3rd party DRM from the start, even if the said 3rd party DRM pretends to not be a DRM.For me, the primary definition for games is art. And I want this art to be preserved through years and centuries. I don't want them to be tied to servers owned by 3rd party corporations that do not create art. For them, games are not art, and not even products, but a service. A service that can be shut down any time they have problems with their business.
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At least some devs get how DRM is supposed to work: https://torrentfreak.com/depraved-city-builder-on-steam-features-pirate-hat-drm-180804/
I guess this is kind of reverse of Valve DRM where legit copies fill your inventories with hats.
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I've seen a lot of people talking bad stuff about Denuvo. All I know is a kind of DRM.
This is not sarcasm: what's Denuvo doing that other kinds of DRM aren't?
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